New Relic weapon quest - are we down to 1 hour content already?

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

This actually makes me want to laugh out loud. I enjoyed the actual story aspect of this first step. Like REALLY enjoyed. Running through that instance, the battle, the cutscenes (Some more than others), and I am very satisfied. But I should've expected to see a lot of people on the forums not liking it, actually severely hating it. But its just proof that people on both ends of the spectrum do exist.

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Think the problem is they want something to do but the relic in term's of content they were expecting more from and are disappointed. Personally I'm fine with the relic being this easy it means I'm able to farm up a decent 485 weapon for all my jobs and I'm capped out at 80 everything. Honestly the requirement just for poetics is actually nice as I'm able to farm Eureka and try and finish all those relics while farming for the new base ones. Honestly the only thing I feel disapointed on is that the dyable AF is locked behind an extreme trial but I'm suspecting that normal players like myself will be able to get an upgradable version of the existing AF in 5.3.

OK so when I first went though the entire quest line, I was quite happy with the story cutscenes and the instance boss with all the scions friends was cool ngl. A first choice of relic weapon is given as a reward is pretty great. Just when I was wondering what content do I go through for alt job's weapon, all I got was "go farm poetics".

oh.... that's it.....

Another thing that is gonna get some people mad is probably the dyeable af gear. I was surprised to find out we have another extreme fight so soon, then I saw you need to do it to get dyeable af gear.... Not a fan, but I will do it to get enough totems for at least one job I think even though this pretty much puts a bad taste in my mouth.

A lot of people defending this content are entirely missing the point: nobody (or almost nobody) is taking issue with this content being 'easy,' or featuring copious amounts of cutscenes, story, and lore (I'm a lore fiend myself, so I'm at least happy with that part of the offering). Rather, it's that a lot of us enjoy combat-oriented combat, but we're not up to par/interested in Savage & Ex. For us, ShB has offered less content than ever before, with the reduction in newly-released dungeons, and the omission of a new deep dungeon, so we're disappointed that this is a very flimsy offering as far as combat content we can actually sink our teeth into.

Nor are, I should point out, looking back at 1.0 & 2.0 relics with 'rose-coloured glasses.' Both of those were terminally boring. Eureka, on the other hand, held some promise, but the fact that it wasn't soloable, or even DF-able, meant that there was no real guarantee that you could comfortably log on for an hour, get a good bit of grinding in, and make some progress towards your goal(s). In fact, there is very little in the game that caters to that play style other than maybe the roulettes (unless you end up spending more than half that time in a queue).

Why is this game, unlike games such as ESO and BDO, so averse to a casual grind that subscribers can chip away at over the course of an expansion cycle? I really don't get it, and am completely perplexed that not only has SE missed multiple opportunities to cater to what must be a substantial proportion of their customer base, but have only sought to further alienate them with the latest expansion. Were it not for the first-rate lore, storyline, and characters, I would be totally outso.

This was just an introduction to the story, real grind isn't till 5.35 with the new exploration area, eureka 2.0. Hopefully well see some nice weapon designs these are pretty decent but prolly wont be the final model, wasnt too happy with final product for eureka.

I personally enjoyed the grind in Eureka and the special zones. I have to hope although this one is short and poetics seem to be the currency at the moment that we won't need to be farming tome stones and running old content for the succeeding patches.

And as a side note I will say that hunts yesterday were a real circus with all the people showing up for them giving the amount of tome stones they reward.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Actually the Resistance paid for it. She's supplying materiel to the Resistance, and presumably charging them. We were just there to collect it.

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Still doesn't sound like Rowena.

Heck, she even charged us for materials for the weapon we were designing at her behest, for her to sell (The Anima weapon)

Asking for 1000 poetics for additional weapons that the Resistance is also paying for, sound much more her style.

At the very least, I expected her to be like "Oh, by the way, you wouldn't mind going to [Insert arse-end of nowhere location] in order to pick up [Completely obscure artifact that she happened to know about] in exchange for the dust, since it wasn't obtained for free!"

Even more so if she found out that we had been to an entirely different world and thus would have access to priceless trinkets and artifacts given that literally no-one else on the planet would be able to obtain them...

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Still doesn't sound like Rowena.

Heck, she even charged us for materials for the weapon we were designing at her behest, for her to sell (The Anima weapon)

Asking for 1000 poetics for additional weapons that the Resistance is also paying for, sound much more her style.

At the very least, I expected her to be like "Oh, by the way, you wouldn't mind going to [Insert arse-end of nowhere location] in order to pick up [Completely obscure artifact that she happened to know about] in exchange for the dust, since it wasn't obtained for free!"

Even more so if she found out that we had been to an entirely different world and thus would have access to priceless trinkets and artifacts given that literally no-one else on the planet would be able to obtain them...

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That would require the writers to understand the concept of consistent characters, which they dont. FFXIV doesnt have that level of consistent writing, thats only in actual books.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Still doesn't sound like Rowena.

Heck, she even charged us for materials for the weapon we were designing at her behest, for her to sell (The Anima weapon)

Asking for 1000 poetics for additional weapons that the Resistance is also paying for, sound much more her style.

At the very least, I expected her to be like "Oh, by the way, you wouldn't mind going to [Insert arse-end of nowhere location] in order to pick up [Completely obscure artifact that she happened to know about] in exchange for the dust, since it wasn't obtained for free!"

Even more so if she found out that we had been to an entirely different world and thus would have access to priceless trinkets and artifacts given that literally no-one else on the planet would be able to obtain them...

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I can see her logic being that of a drug dealer here. The first hit is "free" (for us), gets us hooked, then the rest comes at a premium... and she knows us too well to think that we won't come back for more.

Need some Black Desert Online style cashshop to fund more content lol. Mogstations non dyeable outfits aren't generating enough money :D.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

As much as I hated Anemos and Pagos, they at least gave me a reason to play, besides doing relevant lockouts and capping currencies.

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I am not so addicted that I want to gobble down everything they throw at me, thanks.
I take short content that is FUN over grinds that I loathe ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

Tons of other games out there to spend ones free time with, I don't need to be "forced / coerced" to log in every day to think I get my 12€'s worth of entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I am not so addicted that I want to gobble down everything they throw at me, thanks.
I take short content that is FUN over grinds that I loathe ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

Tons of other games out there to spend ones free time with, I don't need to be "forced / coerced" to log in every day to think I get my 12€'s worth of entertainment.

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I don't see the point of paying a sub fee if I'm not playing the game I'm subbed to.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

I don't see the point of paying a sub fee if I'm not playing the game I'm subbed to.

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He said he was capping tomes per week and doing the usual lockouts. So he is actively playing the game already.

He just wants sth. he HATES in order to have "more to do"... which is completely nonsensical in my book.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I am not so addicted that I want to gobble down everything they throw at me, thanks.
I take short content that is FUN over grinds that I loathe ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

Tons of other games out there to spend ones free time with, I don't need to be "forced / coerced" to log in every day to think I get my 12€'s worth of entertainment.

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I prefer hateful but active engagement over apathy and a lack of busywork in a subscription based MMO. Of course I would prefer neither if possible.

Short bursts of fun I can have in other games. Long term rewarding grinds, combined with a social platform not so much.

(also just to clarify, I specifically mentioned Anemos and Pagos, because I almost kinda liked Pyros and Hydatos)

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Originally Posted by Granyala

He said he was capping tomes per week and doing the usual lockouts. So he is actively playing the game already.

He just wants sth. he HATES in order to have "more to do"... which is completely nonsensical in my book.

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Please don't put words in my mouth. I would prefer something fun to do more of, BUT I would take something I hate over the current state of affairs if it engages me in some way.

As for the actively part? Its like one to two hours a day. Definitions may vary, but to me that's pretty undewhelming for an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

This actually makes me want to laugh out loud. I enjoyed the actual story aspect of this first step. Like REALLY enjoyed. Running through that instance, the battle, the cutscenes (Some more than others), and I am very satisfied. But I should've expected to see a lot of people on the forums not liking it, actually severely hating it. But its just proof that people on both ends of the spectrum do exist.

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Doesn't seem like anyone hates the Solo Duty, everyone dislikes fact it's so short & just hands you Relics for so little effort comparative to past relics initial steps we're so use to these being lengthy grinds that everyone is maybe a lil taking back by this one.

On the Solo Duty though it was great & seeing Bozja looking like a fairly modernish style massive city only further leads me to think Garlemald proper will look literally like another Midgar.

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Originally Posted by purgatori

Why is this game, unlike games such as ESO and BDO, so averse to a casual grind that subscribers can chip away at over the course of an expansion cycle?

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We did get shared fates. Many of the people who claim to prefer Eureka still haven't finished those even though they offer similar rewards and gameplay as Anemos.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

I prefer hateful but active engagement over apathy and a lack of busywork in a subscription based MMO.
As for the actively part? Its like one to two hours a day. Definitions may vary, but to me that's pretty undewhelming for an MMO.

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Yeah. Hence why I used the term "addiction".

1.5hrs per day on average = 45hrs per month.
I'd say even w/o "hateful engagement", that's more than your money's worth considering the amount of content and the price of single player games.

This thread right here. Perfect example of why most forums suck. I just finished the relic quest and kept thinking how good it was and how the devs continue to deliver quality content.

It took me about five hours or so to finish everything because I never did the Ivalice raids. So I did the entire series in one sitting.

For me this was a great night. Went and knocked out Ivalice which I would normally not do. Then did a truly engaging solo duty to get the relic weapon. And since I literally went from Orbonne Monastery directly to the relic quest, it felt like one big story.

So for all my effort I got relic weapons for the three jobs I have at 80. It was awesome and felt very rewarding for the long night of gaming. And you know what? The queues for the raids were about five minutes, if that, for a DPS, so lots of people were doing them. This tells me that a lot of people were probably happy to get the clear and then be rewarded with a nice weapon at the end of the night.

This truly is a great game and I’m happy to be part of it.

But carry on with your griping.

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Originally Posted by Lium

It took me about five hours or so to finish everything because I never did the Ivalice raids

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Interesting, are these a pre requisite?

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Interesting, are these a pre requisite?

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Yes. You need to have completed Shadowbringers and the Return to Ivalice raids.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

He said he was capping tomes per week and doing the usual lockouts. So he is actively playing the game already.

He just wants sth. he HATES in order to have "more to do"... which is completely nonsensical in my book.

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Yes I agree having content for the sake of having content to feel like sub is worth it is kinda meh

But paying a sub to play other games and be like cool I can play other games is meh too.

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Originally Posted by Lium

This thread right here. Perfect example of why most forums suck. I just finished the relic quest and kept thinking how good it was and how the devs continue to deliver quality content.

It took me about five hours or so to finish everything because I never did the Ivalice raids. So I did the entire series in one sitting.

For me this was a great night. Went and knocked out Ivalice which I would normally not do. Then did a truly engaging solo duty to get the relic weapon. And since I literally went from Orbonne Monastery directly to the relic quest, it felt like one big story.

So for all my effort I got relic weapons for the three jobs I have at 80. It was awesome and felt very rewarding for the long night of gaming. And you know what? The queues for the raids were about five minutes, if that, for a DPS, so lots of people were doing them. This tells me that a lot of people were probably happy to get the clear and then be rewarded with a nice weapon at the end of the night.

This truly is a great game and I’m happy to be part of it.

But carry on with your griping.

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Precisely-- my point precisely, well said Lium. The unnecessary griping is almost laughable at this point.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

It takes about 1 hour to get, provided you have the Poetics ready, 3 relic weapons. Of that 1 hour, the vast majority is watching cutscenes, with just one pretty cool-looking long solo instance - which apparently can even be put on Very Easy so that the moderately cool fights (of which there are only 2) are also semi-AFK wins.

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So much development effort pandering to the vanishingly small minority capable/interested in doing this level of content .. the rest of us don't even get 1 hour's more content.

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Originally Posted by Lium

This thread right here. Perfect example of why most forums suck. I just finished the relic quest and kept thinking how good it was and how the devs continue to deliver quality content.

It took me about five hours or so to finish everything because I never did the Ivalice raids. So I did the entire series in one sitting.

For me this was a great night. Went and knocked out Ivalice which I would normally not do. Then did a truly engaging solo duty to get the relic weapon. And since I literally went from Orbonne Monastery directly to the relic quest, it felt like one big story.

So for all my effort I got relic weapons for the three jobs I have at 80. It was awesome and felt very rewarding for the long night of gaming. And you know what? The queues for the raids were about five minutes, if that, for a DPS, so lots of people were doing them. This tells me that a lot of people were probably happy to get the clear and then be rewarded with a nice weapon at the end of the night.

This truly is a great game and I’m happy to be part of it.

But carry on with your griping.

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I just started the game I spent hours an hours going from ARR to SHB why are you saying the patch is done in one hour?

Glad for you it felt like you had something to do because you never bothered doing Ivalice raids but most people did them every week for a year.

Now that I've actually done it... I really enjoyed it. It's a bit odd the first step is so short, but having done a Zeta weapon and like 90% of an anima weapon, I'm guessing the next steps will probably take more than an hour.

This is nice because it means I'll be able to at least start more than one of these without hating my life and the game after the fact. Got to the second step on a second anima and never bothered even getting the first on more before. These are something to burn the poetics I've been swimming in on at least. :P

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

I can see her logic being that of a drug dealer here. The first hit is "free" (for us), gets us hooked, then the rest comes at a premium... and she knows us too well to think that we won't come back for more.

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Except... She's never needed to do that before and we're still here asking for more.

If anything, she needs to tax us for bringing a crap-load of scrips from the First back to her to buy all her goods without giving her the supply.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

We did get shared fates. Many of the people who claim to prefer Eureka still haven't finished those even though they offer similar rewards and gameplay as Anemos.

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One of the things about this is typically, people liked the idea of Eureka as a place to casually grind in (Despite it being called "Challenging content" by the devs), with lots of stuff to obtain by punching enemies a bunch.

While the reality of Eureka which is tedious FATE grinding via mass AoEing a bunch of non-threatening, often low level enemies for 30 minutes to spawn them, is not particularly fun.

Hence why Shared FATEs, being more boring FATE grinding, is not so appealing.

If Eureka was instead more focused on rewarding you for killing enemies on par with your level, while getting bonuses from chains, with simply FATEs spawning on timers independent of mob kills to provide a break from the monotony of grinding enemies, it would probably have been a much bigger success and that kind of gameplay could continue on throughout expansions as a nice casual grind for people to do.

But no... Mobs were unrewarding andFATEs were tied to killing specific enemies so it all become simply a giant FATE Train of boredom...

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Originally Posted by Kalise

If Eureka was instead more focused on rewarding you for killing enemies on par with your level, while getting bonuses from chains, with simply FATEs spawning on timers independent of mob kills to provide a break from the monotony of grinding enemies, it would probably have been a much bigger success and that kind of gameplay could continue on throughout expansions as a nice casual grind for people to do.

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You kinda described Pagos light farm. Might be an issue with execution, but I can attest: it wasn't that much fun.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

But paying a sub to play other games and be like cool I can play other games is meh too.

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That's why I play this game in addition to other games. :D
I just don't fret if there is too little to do that is fun in order to keep me loggin in daily.

Activity in MMOs is cyclical. There are times when you no-life them and there are times in when you go on vacation.
After all, Kitty needs rest too, right?

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Now that I've actually done it... I really enjoyed it. It's a bit odd the first step is so short, but having done a Zeta weapon and like 90% of an anima weapon, I'm guessing the next steps will probably take more than an hour.

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They already warned people about the effort required in the patch notes. They knew the first stage was quick (a lengthy grind for a weapon that is at best equal to the tome weapon everyone already has wouldn't have made sense) and they wanted to make it clear that the following steps will be a lot more ... workful. ... eventful? ... grindful!

I just made these up.

That being said: I thought that the first step was awesome. Very fun indeed.

look its great that some people enjoy it
but the point of the forums is feed back and people need to complain or question Devs decision so going "ugh complainers" isn't really doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

That's why I play this game in addition to other games. :D
I just don't fret if there is too little to do that is fun in order to keep me loggin in daily.

Activity in MMOs is cyclical. There are times when you no-life them and there are times in when you go on vacation.
After all, Kitty needs rest too, right?

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Define no-life. Last time I could no-life FF in any meaningful way was back in Eureka / HoH. Thats one pretty damn long vacation...

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

This is where I never cease to be astounded by how players like you continue to swiftly rush through the tale without really absorbing what is being laid out before them. I surmise you have completed the quest, thus you may open the minor spoilers below:

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Or perhaps, I simply didn't find it nearly as engaging as you did? Accusing people off rushing through simply because that didn't find the story as compelling denotes bias. But to answer your points:

• Yes. In fact, I had been curious when Noah would make a return and like how they wove it into the greater narrative
• While I know the references, FFXII is among my least favourite FF titles. I've been meaning to give it another shot since Zodiac released but yeah, I just didn't enjoy it way back when.
  
  The rest more or less boil down to me repeating myself. Yes, I grasped their significance. Some were interesting while others were not. You seemed to be captivated by the whole experience whereas I was bored until Cid became the focus. Once again, that doesn't mean I rushed through it. I simply didn't enjoy it the same way you did.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

I was able to absorb all that by just taking my main charcater through the quest-- I might learn even more when I take my second main charcater through sometime tomorrow. Heck, I might even pick up some more hidden nuances while I take my current third character on Diabolos through Stormblood.

Slow reader you say? I'm a very prolific reader-- when I need to do my speed reading I easily notch around 500 to 600 words per minute. When I need to speed read with retention, I slow down to about almost 350 to 400 per minute and I do it with a 85% to 90% retention-- it's one of the reasons I excelled at both my Masters degrees.

By the way-- regarding your question "prepare how?" -- I'm now almost convinced you were not around for the insanely mad relic grinds of ARR's Atma, Heavensward's Anima, and Stormblood's Eureka. Players who truly went through those times understand exactly what I mean by mentally preparing for the grind ahead.

Now head back in-game and go try to figure out all the additional lore I just mentioned above.

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Good for you I guess? Reading slower wouldn't have made the parts I found dull more compelling. You're letting your bias show.

And while no, I wasn't playing throughout ARR. I started my first (of several) Heavensward relic during the beloved Unidentified Step prior to any nerfs and made four Stormblood relics. There was no "mental preparation" necessary beyond "lets grind A1S for five hours straight." But I also don't approach games with that sort of mindset. I set a goal and do it. Likewise, it certainly isn't something I "prepare" for months in advance.

How about I didn't find them all that interesting? At least not as much as you did. Shocking, I know. Regardless, the complaint people have isn't the story but how quickly the content dries up, especially when it took ten months to finally get a relic step. If this had released in 5.15, you wouldn't see nearly as many complaints.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

We did get shared fates. Many of the people who claim to prefer Eureka still haven't finished those even though they offer similar rewards and gameplay as Anemos.

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Eureka wasn't fun because we were doing fate but because you were playing with people, helping each other and so on.

Sorry but doing fates alone with my chocobo and actually socializing with people while spawning fate/chilling and do fates together is very different.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Define no-life. Last time I could no-life FF in any meaningful way was back in Eureka / HoH. Thats one pretty damn long vacation...

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"No-lifing" typically happens for me when an expansion is released. Esp leveling crafters/gatherers.
Keep in mind though, that I usually have a busy schedule and consider playing 4hrs per day already "no-lifing".

Obviously some unemployed person will see that # of playtime as too little. (not directed at you specifically) :D

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Eureka wasn't fun because we were doing fate but because you were playing with people, helping each other and so on.

Sorry but doing fates alone with my chocobo and actually socializing with people while spawning fate/chilling and do fates together is very different.

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Fate parties are a thing outside Eureka as well. I saw many party requests in the field zones when shared fates were first released. Those who actually like the content played through it.

However, if it's very hard to get a group of people nowadays to do fates together even though lots of people still haven't finished collecting the rewards... that kind of proves what a flop Eureka would have been if relics had not been locked behind it.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

look its great that some people enjoy it
but the point of the forums is feed back and people need to complain or question Devs decision so going "ugh complainers" isn't really doing anything.

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Exactly.

Most Devs actually like complaints, as long as they aren't insults or flame wars. They're capable of going through them and recognizing which are just individual rants, and which are legitimate player concerns reflected in their own data. They encourage small breaks but absolutely do not want players to "quit and go find another game if you don't like it". The silent quitters are the least useful player for a developer, because you get zero indication of why they quit.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

However, if it's very hard to get a group of people nowadays to do fates together even though lots of people still haven't finished collecting the rewards... that kind of proves what a flop Eureka would have been if relics had not been locked behind it.

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Hell, my group and I said "screw it" during pagos, even WITH the relic.
Pagos (pre nerf) traumatized us enough to never attempt it again, even after it was Anemos 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

You kinda described Pagos light farm. Might be an issue with execution, but I can attest: it wasn't that much fun.

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Ehh...

Pagos light farm was not particularly rewarding for killing mobs.

It actually boiled down to being more efficient to farm FATEs for Light than actually doing any of the dedicated Light farming, outside of maybe having a party farming Morbols for Cassie (Not the entire train though and you'd need the party to all be max level and ideally already have BA weapon for increased elemental level in order to kill them quickly enough to be decently rewarding)

Which is not ideal, given how it's basically "Get a perfect team together" or "Go mindlessly farm the boring FATEs"

Rather than being actually rewarding for killing things. Where you get something actually worthwhile from killing most enemies with the chain bonuses being able to give you nicer things.

Anemos was literally the worst for mob rewards too, given that they gave a much crappier crystal than the one you needed for upgrades (On the once in a blue moon event of them actually dropping something, which was a theme across all of Eureka, even Light in Pagos was not particularly common even before you got the RNG of how much light that ranged from an insignificant spec to 2 whole bars of light from the same enemy)

Ill will admit it was short. The story was good but i wouldn't mind having a bit longer. I do understand some people did not do the raids before this was release. Compared to the other ones i wanted to do a bit more.

The first step was way too short for me. The solo instance was cool, and I hope they'll use it again in future patches.
But if you exclude the marketboard, the relic weapon takes less time to make than any crafted weapon ( since mats requiere tomes + several DoH, DoL AND are on timers). And these aren't really difficult to make either.
The new EX trial is nice too but I don't care about ShB AF gear.
So, back to the same 2 dungeons EX roulette again for the next 3 months? No thank you.

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Originally Posted by Lium

This thread right here. Perfect example of why most forums suck. I just finished the relic quest and kept thinking how good it was and how the devs continue to deliver quality content.

It took me about five hours or so to finish everything because I never did the Ivalice raids. So I did the entire series in one sitting.

For me this was a great night. Went and knocked out Ivalice which I would normally not do. Then did a truly engaging solo duty to get the relic weapon. And since I literally went from Orbonne Monastery directly to the relic quest, it felt like one big story.

So for all my effort I got relic weapons for the three jobs I have at 80. It was awesome and felt very rewarding for the long night of gaming. And you know what? The queues for the raids were about five minutes, if that, for a DPS, so lots of people were doing them. This tells me that a lot of people were probably happy to get the clear and then be rewarded with a nice weapon at the end of the night.

This truly is a great game and I’m happy to be part of it.

But carry on with your griping.

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Congrats on the opinion. Unfortunately it doesn't invalidate other's opinions.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

snip.

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I think that was much later in the Eureka cycle? Back when Pagos was current I distinctly remember FATEs being horrible for light. I did 4 weapons in Forge or mid dragon chain groups. Both basically boiled down to somehow 30 chaining dragons. Forge group cheated the chain with the trashy vine mobs, while the mid group was just farming dragons all to the top.

After a while I remember I had to drop to BLM or some other low APM job since the endless non-stop combat for hours on end caused my fingers to hurt.