Is it me or has the community gotten worse...

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

Sometimes, the toxic players are the ones doing the reporting, and they don't belong to any partucular group. Working things out is better than simply reporting, when plausible.

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That would be a mistake on their part because the GMs check the logs and their toxicity would be discovered

But honestly, the worst part of the community is in the steam forums. Holy hydaelyn,the people there are so toxic.

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Originally Posted by foussi

But honestly, the worst part of the community is in the steam forums. Holy hydaelyn,the people there are so toxic.

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Kinda the case for any game that has a steam forum really. As a rule of thumb I'd just avoid any steam forum for games that attract a large following. It'll save you a lot of headaches.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

Frankly, I do not respect people that cannot compose themselves before speaking. Seriously, nothing you say out of frustration or anger will ever have any value. Passive-aggressiveness may be immature, but I at least know that the person who's upset has to control themselves, which proves to me that they're at least worth basic human decency. If I were to play most other MMO's, I'd have to deal with mindless degenerates that can't act like civilized people. And that's beneath me, so I'll take this game any day of the week.

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Passive-aggressive people are at the same level. Usually, passive-aggressive individuals want to leash out but are just a coward too afraid of repercussions. In an ideal world, everyone will be assertive.

Also, just because criticism is not enveloped in a pretty nice package doest automatically make it invalid and dismissing that criticism outright is foolish.

Edit: And no, "vomit" criticism over others is not the way to go but at the same time being blunt is not equal to being rude or "toxic".

If a game has community interaction replacement features like content finders/dungeon finders/raid finders so the community will always get worse. Because it has no consequences beeing a jerk. You will never see the people again and it has no effect blacklisting people.



Greetings

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

And your post and other previous state the following things:

1. People wouldn't have to mention it, if others actually bothered to improve AKA care about teamwork.
2. See 1. I already self improved but unfortunately duties depend on the performance of the whole group, not just mine
3. Telling someone they're bad isn't harassment. It's stating a fact. Plus wouldn't have to tell them that if they had an ounce of selflessness on their body, and bothered to pull their weight.
4. You can't dismiss my point by saying I'm not interested in teamwork, when the people I'm talking about aren't interested in it the first place. Why so much coddling and catering to them is what puzzles me and many others.
5. You and others don't care about clearing duties and providing a good experience for the whole group. Just your own.
6. You and others only care about your own personal feelings and not those of the rest of the group.
7. What you call harassment is only what the same thing you are doing here: people complaining that certain players are hurting their game experience.

Why do people keep telling me and others to help someone improve when that person doesn't seek out help nor does research to improve in the first place? Do you think people like me just got lucky and found someone to help me out, or I just did my own homework and got to where I am through my own efforts?

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Hi. I'm on PS4 and can't afford a gaming PC.

Kindly close thine lips. <3

If I could improve using logs on my own I would, otherwise I just have to ask for help, read up on rotations, and guess the metamagic and underpinning of the game.

Despite many things, like reading rotation guides or the tooltips, I still fumble at times and would like to not be insulted, thrown death threats, or lectured about some numbers I can't even see.

So, I just report and block assholes that do this. Like, I'd probably be forced to report you sadly. And that sucks cause you almost seem like a decent human if you weren't a, https://youtu.be/pB4gIRunnhM

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Originally Posted by Reap00

You have a very narrow view. It isn't FFXIV specifically that has a lot of creeps. Welcome to the human race.

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uhh i was speaking about FFXIV specifically,im quite aware of the real world.
Jumping to conclusions so easily might not do good D:

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Originally Posted by foussi

But honestly, the worst part of the community is in the steam forums. Holy hydaelyn,the people there are so toxic.

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I'm pretty sure being toxic is a mandatory part of posting there. Like the mods will ban you if you are polite and respectful.

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Originally Posted by Nyvara

I'm pretty sure being toxic is a mandatory part of posting there. Like the mods will ban you if you are polite and respectful.

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Don't go to REDDIT. you WILL be downvoted for going against group think. :c

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Passive-aggressive people are at the same level. Usually, passive-aggressive individuals want to leash out but are just a coward too afraid of repercussions. In an ideal world, everyone will be assertive.

Also, just because criticism is not enveloped in a pretty nice package doest automatically make it invalid and dismissing that criticism outright is foolish.

Edit: And no, "vomit" criticism over others is not the way to go but at the same time being blunt is not equal to being rude or "toxic".

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They are not.
One does control his emotions, other ones doesnt and just wishes you to get cancer or some stuff like that. Its not the same, its completely different level.
Sarcasm is not the same level as the dead wishes.

Because of thinking like this, we have ceases where looking at woman is being categorised as sexual assault...

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Don't go to REDDIT. you WILL be downvoted for going against group think. :c

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Reddit is the lowest level in the foodchain, nothing there is allowed. xD

There are ways to offer criticism without being a neanderthal about it.

"You're bad!" Or "Stop being bad!"

Is a neanderthal comment.

Try: "Hey, I noticed that you're not using X in your rotation, if you added it in, it would raise your damage by a pretty good bit."

Or

"I noticed on that last pull you seem to forget to use some of your defensive cooldowns. It would help our healers quite a bit if you could use them more often."

Or

"That enemy does a big hit against anything in its forward arc, even though it doesn't have an AoE warning cone. Make sure to stand off to the side rather than where I'm standing, that'swhy I'm trying to face it away from you guys." (As the tank)

I've used all 3 of those (and no, I don't parse) and haven't gotten any flak from players.

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Originally Posted by Angellos

The toxicity is getting worse - and while it really IS because of the influx of players from other games, let me touch on something:

SE -ACTUALLY- disciplines people in this game and is NOT afraid to suspend or ban an account. When you encounter people that are toxic like this, DO report them. I know that a lot of folks in this community just like to move on and ignore toxic behavior but let me tell you: That is EXACTLY why we have toxic people. DO NOT just put up with it, ignore them and move on. Report them so that toxic player's are given warnings, suspensions and/or bans. It helps keep the community friendly. Once they start getting away with it, it will start happening more and more until it's out of control.

Take action when you see things like this.

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This. This right here.

I have brought up the importance of taking action, and I have been met with brushing off and variants of "it's not a big deal." I am glad to see someone else getting to the heart of it. It may seem like pettiness for the sheer volume of it, but it does not do a community good when you allow yourself and others to sit in a lukewarm cess pool then say, "Man I wish the water was a bit cleaner."

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

They are not.
One does control his emotions, other ones doesnt and just wishes you to get cancer or some stuff like that. Its not the same, its completely different level.
Sarcasm is not the same level as the dead wishes.

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Hiding your emotions with sarcasm doesn't mean you're controlling them. You're basically just lashing out politely so you don't look bad, forgetting that the content of what you're saying is more important than how it is presented.
Not to mention it's harder to recognize hostility with passive-agressiveness meaning the agressor has more time and opportunities to harm you in any way.

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Originally Posted by Gula

This. This right here.

I have brought up the importance of taking action, and I have been met with brushing off and variants of "it's not a big deal." I am glad to see someone else getting to the heart of it. It may seem like pettiness for the sheer volume of it, but it does not do a community good when you allow yourself and others to sit in a lukewarm cess pool then say, "Man I wish the water was a bit cleaner."

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Except many people use the report system more as a "please go silence people I don't like/saying things that upset me" than actual problems.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

haven't gotten any flak from players.

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Lucky for you.

I have not been as lucky.

As an example, to compare, I once said "Could you please use a few Defensive Cooldowns during pulls? It'll make it smoother and easier to heal through."

Was berated that I should leave them alone and the other DPS said that they are "new" and that I should leave them alone and let them play how they want.

Another time I asked if it was okay if I pulled big and the healer said "sure". I did, we wiped and the healer said "..." and I replied "Oh. My b, that was probably too much. I'll try pulling less." I got IMMEDIATELY kicked.

/shrug

FFXIV's Community isn't that toxic but let's not act like being nice or lighthearted is always going to be met with a positive response.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

I've used all 3 of those (and no, I don't parse) and haven't gotten any flak from players.

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Conversely, I’ve used very similar phrasing when I offer advice, and I get told to go F myself.

Some people in this game don’t want to be given advice, or see any sort of constructive criticism as a personal attack. So I just don’t give it anymore outside of threads made on here specifically asking for it, or if someone messages me on Discord asking for advice.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Except many people use the report system more as a "please go silence people I don't like/saying things that upset me" than actual problems.

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No matter what the system is, as long as it exists, people will abuse it. So really, why not make the effort of betterment?

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

There are ways to offer criticism without being a neanderthal about it.

"You're bad!" Or "Stop being bad!"

Is a neanderthal comment.

Try: "Hey, I noticed that you're not using X in your rotation, if you added it in, it would raise your damage by a pretty good bit."

Or

"I noticed on that last pull you seem to forget to use some of your defensive cooldowns. It would help our healers quite a bit if you could use them more often."

Or

"That enemy does a big hit against anything in its forward arc, even though it doesn't have an AoE warning cone. Make sure to stand off to the side rather than where I'm standing, that'swhy I'm trying to face it away from you guys." (As the tank)

I've used all 3 of those (and no, I don't parse) and haven't gotten any flak from players.

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See, now, I've never had issues with people giving me advice, even if they seem terse about it (you can only type so much mid dungeon). To me that's not toxic.

The guy who gave advice on BLM AoE when I was still figuring out BLM was not toxic, despite being terse.

The guy who said "Of course the pet goes to the s****y BLM" was toxic. (word was not censored)

The guy who brought a guildie into an Alexander run to point out how awful I was so he and the guildie could both jeer at me ("Hey Ayuh'ra, I hear you are really bad!" "CONFIRMED!") was super toxic. That one stuck with me in my soul since I had already been having a bad day for reasons that had nothing to do with the game.

And then there are the people who complain about things like droprates. People complaining about RNG or yelling at the game don't bother me at all..

SE should add an sfw and nsfw - esque duty queue. Maybe it could do like the profanity filter. It would replace everyone's comments in party with "******".

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Don't go to REDDIT. you WILL be downvoted for going against group think. :c

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You'll get downvoted on Reddit for literally anything. There are people that will just downvote everyone for no reason at all. I got downvoted for giving someone helpful technical advice that solved their problem once lol...

EDIT: On topic I think the community is more or less the same. It's a typical online community with good people and bad people to be found. I will say one thing though. Square is very good at taking care of the bad people in game so props to them for that.

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Originally Posted by Gula

No matter what the system is, as long as it exists, people will abuse it. So really, why not make the effort of betterment?

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Because this isnt an effort to make things better.

Gonna be frank and people may not like to hear this but there are varying degrees of being toxic. Someone telling you that you suck and being mean I dont find as a reportable offense. Is it offensive, rude, and crappy to hear at times? Sure is. It stings at times too cause it gets under our skin or makes us feel a little bad at times. But that is quite literally life. There are gonna be people who are a bit rude to you. Instead of saying "Im gonna ruin your entire gaming experience by getting you suspended/banned because you were a bit mean to me," perhaps people need to get a bit tougher and dont let other people so easily define their feelings for them. Why should a complete stranger make you feel bad? Why is there opinion or meanie words defining how you feel?

This isnt to say that people shouldnt report. If youre getting constantly harassed by a specific person, that theyre going out of their way to cause trouble for you. Singling you out and over and over and over going after you or trolling you. Yeah, report that. Thats a different level of toxicity that does need to be addressed at that point.

But to go to the "Report people if theyre rude to me or say something mean" mind set doesnt solve anything. It just makes the problem worse. You just become emotionally weaker and more prone to being unable to cope with mean or rude people, which means youll be more prone to file reports. And if the community culture shifts over to "Im gonna report people for the pettiest of mean comments or crude jokes", then were gonna end up with a situation where its better to 'strike first' and report someone before they report you. That or we'll end up in a situation where people wont speak their mind because theyre afraid of getting reported and banned. In either case, its gonna turn into people not having fun for fear of the report function.

And this doesnt even address possible grains of truth in people's comments. If youre constantly being told "You suck" or "Youre bad" by complete strangers, when do you start saying "Hmmm there's a pattern here, and Im the common factor." Ive seen people be blunt and tell people they suck over a simple mistake. It's dumb. But Ive seen that same bluntness to call out players who ARE bad and make progress difficult for everyone involved. Sometimes when people say you suck, its cause you do. Sometimes when people tell it to you, its calling you out on an obvious mistake. Sometimes it's them being stupid. You have to be real about things and learn when theyre calling you out and adjust your gameplay vs when theyre being an ass.

In the end though, way I see it is if youve used the report function more than 20-30 times in the last few months over 'toxic' behavior, the problem is probably you and not the community.

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Originally Posted by Machi_Machiavelli

SE should add an sfw and nsfw - esque duty queue.

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But what about people who dont read anything and dont have a clue what they are joining for ? I still remember some of them leaving after one wipe, with a "but isn't this a farm party ?" comment... in a "training since beginning" pf XD

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Don't go to REDDIT. you WILL be downvoted for going against group think. :c

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I tried posting on the FFXIV Reddit a couple times. I actually have all of my posts hidden, because apparently my Karma is too low. Go figure.

I have barely ever used Reddit, and I didn't even know what Karma was until I found out why my messages were being hidden. Needless to say, I had used Reddit very little before, and I haven't even logged in since. I will not support some trash platform where popularity is the end all.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

Don't go to REDDIT. you WILL be downvoted for going against group think. :c

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The FFXIV reddit community is pretty much scum of the earth, they'll downvote you for anything except " I'm a former wow player I love this game " for the 200th time seeing it and random pictures of characters/artwork.

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Originally Posted by Mingqin

The FFXIV reddit community is pretty much scum of the earth, they'll downvote you for anything except " I'm a former wow player I love this game " for the 200th time seeing it and random pictures of characters/artwork.

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Eh, even with the artwork they're not a fun bunch to deal with. I've posted art there twice and have gotten yelled at both times for the subject matter not being to the redditor's taste. The subject? Literally just fanart of NPC's as Sin Eaters, nothing edgy and nothing maliciously drawn. Yet I still got full blown tirades of how people were sick of that kind of fanart.

Are you using the same Reddit? I've almost never ran into issues like that on the FFXIV subreddit. If anything, I actually see a ton of similarities between there and here, such as:

• Feedback about the game (although Reddit seems to have been nicer recently, they were harsher prior to ShB)
• Hate for RMT (we all hate RMT)
• General belief that other MMOs are always toxic (why, I don't know)
• General belief that the other forum is toxic (yes, Reddit thinks we're toxic here, and apparently people here think Reddit is toxic too, go figure)
• Belief that lala's are food/bait :P

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

"This is quite literally life" because people like you just roll over and accept toxicity, even encouraging it on the grounds that "everyone else does it, and that's just life." It's not about a stranger making you feel bad. It's about condoning anti-social behavior vs disciplining people for misbehaving. Again, it's a very good thing that SE actually punishes people for impulsively flinging racial slurs and other insults. People are either forced to somewhat control themselves, or leave.

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I love how the go-to insinuation when discussing Toxicity always is "You dont want to get rid of the minor Toxicity, you must be all for Racial Slurs and Similar Insults!" It's not like I literally say there are varying degrees of it, and most of the toxic behavior is just surface level mean words. I sometimes pine for the days when Toxicity didnt mean anything under the sun that people found the slightest bit rude or annoying.

People being low level rude I personally dont consider as 'toxic'. I consider it rude people being rude. Its a thing that will never go away. You will till the day you pass have to suffer rude people. That is just a fact of life. Vent if you want, but at the end of the day you cant control other people being rude, so the best bet you got for that is to learn to deal with it and let it roll off your back. Acknowledging it exists and that I wont let it affect me isnt 'encouraging' it either nor is it 'rolling over for it. It's called being a grown up and learning that old childrens rhyme of sticks and stones and actually applying it.

If someone is directly harassing you or slinging overt things, that is grounds for reporting. I said as much. There is a point when a person is being outright reprehensible. However, People telling you that you suck and git gud I dont view as. I view that as people frustrated and venting. I view that as everyday rudeness. And I dont get upset and ruminate about it and waste more of my time trying to "Correct that issue." because I dont view it as an issue. If they want to be a jerk, thats on them. I can say 'whatever man', not feel a lick bad about it, and continue on my way doing my thing. I dont have to let people define who I am or how I feel.

Agree with me or dont, thats fine but my personal message remains the same: If you think that the only way to make the community better is to be thin skinned and report every single little slight that you suffer, its not going to make things better, it's gonna make things worse. Part of this will always come down to what you can control. You will never be able to control other people 100%, so all that you have control of is how you feel about it. As I said, if you just are gonna get upset when people tell you you suck and you go off and try to report them with the hopes of getting them suspended or banned (cause frankly that is what people are hoping for when someone is reported - that action will be taken), then you arent making the community a better place. Youre just making it emotionally weaker and more paranoid, quicker to run off to Nanny SE, tug at their clothes, and tell them "He said a mean thing that I didnt like! Put him in Timeout!" There is such thing as over reporting and over policing a community.

Report to root out the truly rotten apples in the barrel, but if your view is to toss every apple with a small bruise, blemish or scuff as being bad for the entirety of the barrel, youre gonna end up with an empty barrel.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

"This is quite literally life" because people like you just roll over and accept toxicity, even encouraging it on the grounds that "everyone else does it, and that's just life." It's not about a stranger making you feel bad. It's about condoning anti-social behavior vs disciplining people for misbehaving. Again, it's a very good thing that SE actually punishes people for impulsively flinging racial slurs and other insults. People are either forced to somewhat control themselves, or leave.

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I’d say it’s more people like Melichoir accept that toxicity exists regardless of what people do to try and combat it. Because our world is not an ideal world full of sunshine and rainbows where everyone is nice and cuddly to one another all the time. There are jerks everywhere, and that simply cannot be helped.

That said, you’re free to report anything you deem to be “anti-social behavior”. Just know that you cannot make everyone else report every little transgression, nor should every little transgression be reported unless it is particularly egregious—there’s this thing called “making a mountain out of a molehill”, after all. For myself, unless it’s something particularly “toxic” (like a racial slur), I don’t bother reporting and just laugh at what happened. Kind of like the person who once sent me a /tell cussing me out after calling them out for being AFK in Alliance Roulette. I’m sure he thought he was big and macho—I just thought he was silly.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

I'mma make this claim now. REAL raiders aren't toxic, it's the wantables who buys their clears thinking it grants them the awesome status, the people who THINK they are awesome, the ones who THINK they are perfect that are toxic. REAL raiders second guess themselves all the time, REAL raiders aren't even worried about other players unless those players are in their raid group, REAL raiders keep to themselves because they are mostly just trying to up their preformance to be the best they can be. It's the fakers and liars that are toxic, that go and shame learning/new players. I'm a noob raider and every raider I've ever talked too, be it in discord, ingame, or on youtube is the same. Just people who want to be the best. What you're seeing is ALOT of fakers who don't work and buy their clears thinking they are the best and shaming everyone else cause they bought their account and feel ashamed they couldn't clear.

This is just what I noticed.

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I can't use the kudos function on the mobile site but KUDOS to this. It really is a realtively small group of idiots who are making everyone look bad because they read one Reddit page and now think they pwn the game. Oh you'll still see me throw down with the numbers people from time to time but thats here and not in the game. Whether it's the person getting naked so its lvl 50 Alliance Roulette (AGAIN) or the one trying to vote-kick for better chance at loot or the one taking their bots into dungeons so your run suddenly takes an hour, it becomes necessary for each of us to do the right thing and do right by our fellow players. This also means calling BS where we see it. We can't change people's behaviors but we can change how we react to them--and how we act going forward. So lets make this a better place by being good people. It will make the idiots stand out where we can snipe them. :)

MMO's have always had terrible communities, especially when it comes to things like damage logs. Back in WoW there was always some jackass running a damage meter in low level dungeons, where it barely matters, and harassing new players with it. I've seen plenty of that in this game to. It happened to me just recently in a low level story dungeon I wasn't familiar with; my DPS as a Samurai sucked in some early fights and of course some tryhard with a meter had to "put his foot down," to absolutely no benefit. The run was going fine, and once I was comfortable it was better; but it just annoys me. These games are full of insecure people taking little shots at each other, trying to feel special.

Some raiders r funny cuse they like to show off new stuff sure they r entitled to do so.
Someone commented on me why i always glamour the end raid weapon with My Beloved Anabasis lol.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

But to go to the "Report people if theyre rude to me or say something mean" mind set doesnt solve anything. It just makes the problem worse. You just become emotionally weaker and more prone to being unable to cope with mean or rude people, which means youll be more prone to file reports. And if the community culture shifts over to "Im gonna report people for the pettiest of mean comments or crude jokes", then were gonna end up with a situation where its better to 'strike first' and report someone before they report you. That or we'll end up in a situation where people wont speak their mind because theyre afraid of getting reported and banned. In either case, its gonna turn into people not having fun for fear of the report function.

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Can personally vouch that this is already happening among PUG savage raiders. I've been personally threatened with reports for saying something as innocuous and honest as "DPS is probably too low to clear" after noting the bosses %HP. I've seen multiple instances of players saying things like "Tread lightly, they changed the ToS :)" to other players as a veiled threat when people start troubleshooting performance issues, regardless of how kindly they approach it.

It's come to a point where my partial group just kicks people without saying anything rather than attempting to offer criticism, because you never know how insane that person is going to turn out to be. Heck, just today I saw this exchange in a party:

https://i.imgur.com/G60VSwh.png

Does every message need to be ended with an ugu or an uwu to make sure people aren't offended and won't report? The old "Blacklist and move on" approach the GMs employed was so much better than the mess we're in now.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

Let me get this straight:

1. You let bad behavior "roll off your back" without addressing it.
2. You mock and insult players who report bad behavior.
3. You claim that you're not encouraging bad behavior.

1) and 2) don't add up to 3) here. Try again.

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In the gaming community sense, I wouldn't consider being rude the same as being toxic. Sure, toxicity can include rudeness, but rudeness by itself doesn't make you toxic. Being rude may not make you the nicest of people, but you need to step-up your game if you're trying to win that title of toxic.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

Let me get this straight:

1. You let bad behavior "roll off your back" without addressing it.
2. You mock and insult players who report bad behavior.
3. You claim that you're not encouraging bad behavior.

1) and 2) don't add up to 3) here. Try again.

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1. Some people aren’t offended by everything on the planet. They’re able to more easily laugh or shrug things off. This doesn’t mean that they are enabling or condoning—they just have a thicker skin, and don’t see the need to report for sole sake of reporting.

2. They’re talking about players that report every. single. thing. because they’re insulted by every. single. thing. Not the players that report things like racial slurs and actual toxicity.

3. They’re encouraging people to grow a thicker skin, which I think there are some people out there who could benefit a lot from that. Some things you can’t even say to people on here without them getting bent out of shape over it.


You’re making it sound as if we should report every little transgression no matter how small. But some people are saying that some things take more time to type up a report on and not really being worth said time put into it. For example, someone who laughs at you and says you bought clears because you lagged out and died to something. Why report that? Just shrug it off. Spend time reporting things that should actually be punished (like your example of racial slurs or any other type of slur), not Bobby laughing at you for dying in a duty.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Can personally vouch that this is already happening among PUG savage raiders. I've been personally threatened with reports for saying something as innocuous and honest as "DPS is probably too low to clear" after noting the bosses %HP. I've seen multiple instances of players saying things like "Tread lightly, they changed the ToS :)" to other players as a veiled threat when people start troubleshooting performance issues, regardless of how kindly they approach it.

It's come to a point where my partial group just kicks people without saying anything rather than attempting to offer criticism, because you never know how insane that person is going to turn out to be. Heck, just today I saw this exchange in a party:

https://i.imgur.com/G60VSwh.png

Does every message need to be ended with an ugu or an uwu to make sure people aren't offended and won't report? The old "Blacklist and move on" approach the GMs employed was so much better than the mess we're in now.

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Nobody can report you for saying, "DPS is probably too low."

What they will (and should) report people for is when people spout off knowledge that they can't possibly have. The second someone says, "So-and-so only did X amount of damage."

That's grounds to report.

There is only one way to get that data and it is against the TOS.

Saying, "I don't think we did enough damage fast enough." Will never get you in trouble.

I wonder how long it'll take till crybabies start reporting whole groups for kicking them without saying anything.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

Saying, "I don't think we did enough damage fast enough." Will never get you in trouble.

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It probably won't stop people from trying though /shrug


Honestly i think it's more of a generational thing than a FFXIV thing. You see it across every game. the constant complaining, nothing is ever good enough, etc.
I don't know. I have perfectly normal days and then I have days where it feels i bump into every person who just loves to throw blame onto others / starting fights. I just atribute it to having bad luck that day. Things seem okay on average. More often than not people are just mute with the usual gg at the end of the fight (even if i sometimes disagree that it was a gg but hey, whatever we were fighting died so we did it \o/)

with that said i have to agree that WE are the community and everyone has bad days too so it's funny when you see people sort of distancing themselves from a community they belong to to say that that community sucks. If you want to generalize to that extent i guess you're saying you suck as well since you know... you're also part of it.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. The bottom line here is that you and the other person are clearly okay with mocking and insulting players who do nothing wrong, while excusing the behavior of those who are out of line. And then you have the nerve to claim that you're not encouraging rudeness/toxicity. Telling A to change due to the actions of B is literally the same thing as condoning B. Because otherwise, you'd give B the same treatment as A. But you're not. Drop the act.

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How am I mocking or insulting anyone? I’m telling people to:

1. Grow a thicker skin, because not every. single. thing needs to be reported, and
2. Learn which things are particularly egregious and need to be reported as to reporting everything that happens to rub you the wrong way.


No act for me to drop here. Just me giving my honest opinion on what you’re posting. And if you feel as if I’m “missing the point”, perhaps that could be because you’re doing a poor job of explaining what your point is. All your posts sound like to me is that everyone should report everything even if they aren’t remotely bothered or offended by it, because not doing so is them “enabling and condoning anti-social behavior”.

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Originally Posted by Disc_Hunter

You seem to be intentionally missing the point. The bottom line here is that you and the other person are clearly okay with mocking and insulting players who do nothing wrong, while excusing the behavior of those who are out of line. And then you have the nerve to claim that you're not encouraging rudeness/toxicity. Telling A to change due to the actions of B is literally the same thing as condoning B. Because otherwise, you'd give B the same treatment as A. But you're not. Drop the act.

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Do you have time to actually play the game or do you just sit in Limsa filing harassment reports?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Thick skin and less reporting.

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Pretty much this.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

Nobody can report you for saying, "DPS is probably too low."

What they will (and should) report people for is when people spout off knowledge that they can't possibly have. The second someone says, "So-and-so only did X amount of damage."

That's grounds to report.

There is only one way to get that data and it is against the TOS.

Saying, "I don't think we did enough damage fast enough." Will never get you in trouble.

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They can and will, and punishment can be meted out as per the words of the ToS.

"Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed."

If someone /feels/ that their feelings were hurt, or that they were slighted, they can and will report you for anything.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

"Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed."

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There is still the common sense and context factor, SE can't affortd to start banning people for basic interactions and observations. If they did, then the game would die since everyone was banned.