How's Ultimate?

Let hardcore raiders enjoy something within a catch-up patch for a change. Good lord, do you even realise how selfish you sound, bswpayton? Especially your last few sentences within your third paragraph.

Game needs hard content like this, it makes good PR stories and something to look up. People like watching olympics or championships even if they don`t participate in them. It will make something rememberable in the future.

I don`t do ultimate and probably ever won`t get chance to do it, but it makes me excited that there is something like this.

Hey, news flash bswpayton: Raiders typically unsub during catch-up patches because they're typically already fully geared by the time the patch occurs. I didn't even start raiding seriously until this tier, and even as someone that has cleared O4S late by hardcore standards (I only began clearing at the start of October), I already have BiS gear for Bard. And we have about 3-4 months to go until the next patch.

Anything to keep them subbed during that 3-4 month phase is NOT going to be considered a 'waste of resources' by any stretch of the imagination. Especially compared to literally nothing strictly dedicated to them before. And I say this as someone who honestly doesn't have the guts to even do Ultimate Coil at the moment. You can't exactly call an entire segment of the community 'try hards and no lifers' and then turn around and then ironically ask them to unsub when some had already been doing that prior - especially when unsubbing would imply they have a life outside of the game in the first place, and your argument implies that people like you don't.

Like literally, just read this sentence you typed out, and try to tell me with a straight face that you are actually serious about this.

"They do these things to build a business not to appease some try hards that want everything to be tuned the way they see fit please let all of these people unsub so the rest of the players can enjoy the game because they are truely the cancer of this game."

No Nic Pay is right. Why would you let people enjoy a part of the game that doesn't even change anything for 99% of players? I mean, I'm sure SE would have adds more bosses for casual right? It's not like the game does the same kind of patch since 2.0 (aka 4 years now). Right?
Btw Extreme shouldn't exist too. I mean, not even 10% of players (fflog) are able to clean it anyway. It's a waste of ressources.
Same for a lot of contents, PvP is probably the best exemple, you'll never be able to obtain rewards again from past seasons, and tbh I don't know anyone doing pvp on my server, probably not even 10% of playerbase do ranked game. Such a waste of ressources.

People want to play something that is hard? Play Dark soul in high difficulty with a keyboard and let players on FF doing dungeons spamming 1 key please thanks. (and I don't care that you are a fan of FF, if you want hard stuff, go away!)
Want to pvp? go on LoL. Want a rts game (not lord of verminion, go on Starcraft?)
If you want to craft there is game like Atelier series. Scrap craft already I don't do that and I know tons of people not crafting too.

Please let me enjoy my story and free dungeons without pressuring me with stuff that I don't care and will never do. Gives me more 1click for rewards contents. I don't even have enough time to do the "normal" omega raid; but I'm still a player dedicated to this game, not doing half the content.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

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*gets angry because she can't understand sarcasm*

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

No Nic Pay is right. Why would you let people enjoy a part of the game that doesn't even change anything for 99% of players? I mean, I'm sure SE would have adds more bosses for casual right? It's not like the game does the same kind of patch since 2.0 (aka 4 years now). Right?
Btw Extreme shouldn't exist too. I mean, not even 10% of players (fflog) are able to clean it anyway. It's a waste of ressources.
Same for a lot of contents, PvP is probably the best exemple, you'll never be able to obtain rewards again from past seasons, and tbh I don't know anyone doing pvp on my server, probably not even 10% of playerbase do ranked game. Such a waste of ressources.

People want to play something that is hard? Play Dark soul in high difficulty with a keyboard and let players on FF doing dungeons spamming 1 key please thanks. (and I don't care that you are a fan of FF, if you want hard stuff, go away!)
Want to pvp? go on LoL. Want a rts game (not lord of verminion, go on Starcraft?)
If you want to craft there is game like Atelier series. Scrap craft already I don't do that and I know tons of people not crafting too.

Please let me enjoy my story and free dungeons without pressuring me with stuff that I don't care and will never do. Gives me more 1click for rewards contents. I don't even have enough time to do the "normal" omega raid; but I'm still a player dedicated to this game, not doing half the content.

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There is so much wrong with everything you just said. Basically you want easy content handed to you so you can faceroll it. Well then, why don't you go play Final Fantasy Mystic Quest which is the easy faceroll content you seem to prefer? (not knocking that title by the way, I actually like it) Meanwhile, people that prefer to play games that actually involve some difficulty for the thrill of the challenge will play this game and have fun in Coils Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

There is so much wrong with everything you just said. Basically .

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I think its pretty clear they where just joking

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

and no its not my choice whats in the game and neither is it yours either and thank goodness.

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You’re right. Thank goodness it isn’t up to you what content is in the game. As for what I would want, I didn’t realize that you were an expert on my thoughts and opinions and desires. So thank you, for speaking for me on my behalf.

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The fewer elitist we have the better if you ask me, get em out of here as far as Im concerned.

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To be honest, I have a bigger issues with the softer core players of the game that blindly call anyone who doesn’t do what they think players should do “elitist” and “toxic” than any of the “elitist” raiders you’re going on about. A good example are the people that threaten to report individuals they suspect may be parsing. Because that’s not “toxic” at all.

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So I am all for what they are doing now anything else is just tryin to suck up to a small portion of the playerbase that really is so small their opinions shoudlnt even matter.

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But raiders are the “toxic elitists” here. HMMM.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I think its pretty clear they where just joking

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How am I joking? I'm serious, there is way more people doing story and dungeons only. That's all the game need, tons of easy dungeons for the majority. Everything else is waste of ressources.
They should add 1 dungeon every 2 weeks.
Aren't you on my side? Have you change your mind now? You elitist should leave the game then.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

How am I joking? I'm serious, there is way more people doing story and dungeons only. That's all the game need, tons of easy dungeons for the majority. Everything else is waste of ressources.
They should add 1 dungeon every 2 weeks.
Aren't you on my side? Have you change your mind now? You elitist should leave the game then.

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1. This is an MMORPG, which are known for being never-ending. Simply giving us a storyline will make it end.
2. Everyone does the story then moves on. If there is nothing waiting for them when they finish the story then the game is beaten and you move on to the next one. That isn't what MMORPGs are about.
3. If you don't like what Square Enix is doing here then why don't you leave? Nobody likes an asshole.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

1. This is an MMORPG, which are known for being never-ending. Simply giving us a storyline will make it end.
2. Everyone does the story then moves on. If there is nothing waiting for them when they finish the story then the game is beaten and you move on to the next one. That isn't what MMORPGs are about.
3. If you don't like what Square Enix is doing here then why don't you leave? Nobody likes an asshole.

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I know I'm very subtil in my way to write. But I think you should check my signature or fflog. x)

Ultimate is not just for hardcore raiders, it's for any raiders who wants the extra challenge to see how far they can go even if they can't clear it. Don't have to be now, can be later in patch 3.3 where they overgeared and went back for the mechanics. The number of players who attempted raids and showed interest in UltiBa, from what I observe, is quite substantial and to neglect them means losing valuable customers and as some pointed out, some of the most valuable sources of game info we ever have.

The Final Fantasy XIV dev team is split into multiple groups, each responsible for different areas of the games like raids, dungeons, lores, graphic etc. Having the raid team design UltiBa doesn't mean the other teams stopped functioning, especially when they are re-using assets, as such will not have an impact on content turn out.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

You’re right.


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(Considering there was thread after thread being made complaining about gating Ultimate behind clearing V4S and how “unfair” it was, I’d say enough people are interested in it to make it worthwhile to implement. If we want to discuss interest, I know a lot of people that are not interested in Ex primals—doesn’t stop the developers from making them. I, myself, am not interested in any of the new dungeons being released, because they’re just copy-pastes of all the previous dungeons with arbitrary gates set up to temper tanks that want to pull larger groups of mobs.

Doesn’t stop the developers from making more dungeons. Same thing can be said about any piece of content: not everyone is going to be interested, and the content isn’t going to last forever. Considering SE had to put in an Alliance Roulette with a massive EXP reward to get the queues rolling for the older 24-mans....

In other words, it seems like you’re saying “I’m not interested in this piece of content, so it’s not important, and it’s going to die quickly.” Just because you don’t like something, or just because you have no interest in it, doesn’t mean that other people don’t as well.)

This right here is displaying what you want right there and its also when ,I chimed in and how the thread has gotten to 22 with people arguing back and fourth with me. The point is this to more skilled players yea dungeons are boring I find them boring and if they where the only form of content in the game Id already be gone just like Im sure alot of other players would be. But what you have been doing in this thread and in others , is calling people casual this softcore this and that.

This content easy, this or that undertuned, when in reality some players cant even beat an unsync hw primal Ive seen it first hand was truely sad, but hey it was tuff for them. The only form of content that is easy by default are dungeons, guildheist, fates, and potd because they where designed in that way. Everything else is subjective bottom line, and the only way to prove if something is hard or is not hard is from looking at clear rates. And floggs and other surveys are the only hard data that show this, not people on the forums, not your friends, not anybody else aside from the devs. What data has showed whether its the whole picture are not is that when content is tuned up to a certain level then the clear rates drastically decrease. So yea you may consider v3s easy, neo exdeath easy, but there is no data indicating that , that is the true case for the majority of those whom take part in that content there is no argument to be made here.

So maybe a good step would be to just acknowledge that maybe your wrong about whats hard and what issnt hard to many people whom take part in the same content as you. And stop going around these forums using the word casual like its meant to be an insult. When the data that we have shows that just as many people can clear the end of a raid tier as the beginning fights then u will have an argument on whats easy and whats not until then you honestly dont have one. So according to data, Hardcore players already separated themselves from midcore or softcore are lazycore whatever you want to call them with how drastic the numbers between v1s v4s.

Ultimate again would have been fine if patch came with actual content in it but it didnt , and it looks bad when the only new thing implemented isnt even for 99 percent of the player base. Go look at some videos on the topic of ultimate its several comments like exactly what im saying here people question why this was brought out but yet nothing for basicly the whole playerbase of the game. I put a post up a while back about what everyone was doing with the lack of content in the game and ultimate does nothing to change that, the patch should of had more instead we got less than 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

I know I'm very subtil in my way to write. But I think you should check my signature or fflog. x)

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You know what you said contradicts your signature though right?

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Ultimate again would have been fine if patch came with actual content in it but it didnt , and it looks bad when the only new thing implemented isnt even for 99 percent of the player base. Go look at some videos on the topic of ultimate its several comments like exactly what im saying here people question why this was brought out but yet nothing for basicly the whole playerbase of the game. I put a post up a while back about what everyone was doing with the lack of content in the game and ultimate does nothing to change that, the patch should of had more instead we got less than 3.1.

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1. As I said before, Coils Ultimate was announced long before 4.11 but didn't make it in time to be included in 4.1. The fact that there was nothing else added content-wise with Coils Ultimate doesn't mean they would've added something else if they hadn't added that.
2. Coils Ultimate does count as content. FF14 is big on unlocking content by clearing other content. Coils Ultimate is no exception. You want to play it? Then clear the pre-requisite content. It's that simple. As long as you can clear the pre-requisite content then you can play that content, and if you can't then you have that to work on first, or you can do something else. Not like this game is lacking in things for everyone to do.
3. You seem to enjoy using fflogs to back up your argument rather than using common sense. Clear rates shmear rates they don't have any bearing on how many people are actually playing the content, and that is what truly matters. Apparently fflogs doesn't tell you that or you wouldn't be arguing with everyone like fflogs is the only info that matters.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

(Cries over and over again how bad he is and denies other ppl have some fun for first time since Midas release)

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You have shitton of other faceroll content, yet u shit on ONE thing SE gave for ppl who want to tackle something which requires more than pressing one button? U're golden chap

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Originally Posted by Joe777

You know what you said contradicts your signature though right?

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He's making fun of bswpayton's view by showing everyone the logical extreme. He doesn't actually believe what he is saying

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the patch should of had more instead we got less than 3.1.

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But we did get more look at all the QoL fixes we got and UI changes. I was more happy with them than any content they could've added. If that alone costs a dungeon then so be it, it's not like we do more than half of these dungeons after release anyway.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

You know what you said contradicts your signature though right?

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I have no intrest in ultimate, Ill leave that to xenos or happs, in xenos case first two days he spent 22 hours or something like that doing this fight. Hes also the one with whom his whole team beat alex with all tanks so obviously he is on another skill level.

So if it takes him 22 hours just to get into second phase I personally would have zero interest in this content, along with I dont know the majority of the players in the game. And just playing content means nothing if people arent clearing it , end result is all that matters at the end of the day, thats like going to work and not gettin a pay check at the end of the pay period i dont know about you but id be pretty pissed If I didnt get paid.

What im sayin is more content, outside of the formula would have been nice than using any resources at all on ultimate because of how small the percentage of people whom could even do this and would actually clear it. Most of the people here are hypocrites, someone asked a while back to add on level rewards to the old binding coil the answer to that person on the forums was an overwhelming no. But yet this comes out and people are all for it, if they gona reuse assets it should be for many people not a small portion of the community that it takes making an unbeatable fight to make them happy.



@l1nk

The exaggerations here are truely priceless, yea lets see you cant even do anything in the game with one button. Go try it stand in one spot dont press any buttons to move and just use savage blade over and over and see how quickly you die.

@SaitoHikari

I have run out of post but no I am not trolling never have never will I just dont back down from people whom disagree with me nor should anyone else

@bswpayton: If you have no interest in Ultimate, then why have you been complaining about it? Why are you making it sound like Ultimate literally stole content from you? Ultimate did not delay Eureka and chances are the battle team who worked on Ultimate have nothing to do with Eureka, or whatever else (as a reminder, there are multiple battle teams).

http://i.imgur.com/JrrXxlB.jpg

Ultimate or not, there would not be more content in 4.1 anyway.
3.1, story, 2 dungeons, raid24, Lord of verminion, Diadem, beast tribe , 1 EX. (nothing later in 3.15 except relic and 1 side quest)
4.1, story, 1 dungeons, raid24, GC dungeons with your squad, new map stuff harder, Delivery quest, beast tribe, side quest, 1 EX, Ultimate, Shirogane. (4.15 rivals wing, perform, Eureka, relic?)

(ultimate or not, they have decide to stop doing more dungeons in 4.1 4.3 and 4.5 patch way before)

Basically, more stuff in 4.1 than 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

@bswpayton: If you have no interest in Ultimate, then why have you been complaining about it? Why are you making it sound like Ultimate literally stole content from you? Ultimate did not delay Eureka and chances are the battle team who worked on Ultimate have nothing to do with Eureka, or whatever else (as a reminder, there are multiple battle teams).

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Yeah, Ultimate is literally all recycled assets. If anything, Hidden Canals has a higher likelihood of delaying Eureka, and even then that's a stretch.

Also, I decided to look at bswpayton's thread creating history, and now I'm trying to decide whether or not he's trolling. A normal person does not make a thread advocating for people to kick DPS who don't AoE in dungeons AND a different thread about why SE doesn't allow parsing when they keep designing fights with enrages, and then turn around to complain about how the devs choose to spend development resources towards a specific portion of the community that's at the opposite end of the spectrum.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

argument for more.

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Originally for 4.1 the main planned big contents are Ultimate for any raiders who cleared o4s and wants more, the 24 man alliance raid which caters to all and Eureka, with that the new relic weapons. Eureka, unfortunately have to be push-back due to some problems they couldn't even fix in time for 4.15, thus 4.1 feels slightly empty. The Ultimate series is in the end handled by the raid design team amongst many other team within the devs, thus even with omission of the ultimate fight, I really doubt the cater-all contents will magically increase.

FFLogs are pretty much filled by ppl who wants to be ranked and compared to others. There are way many other raiders/players who don't give a damn about uploading their parses up there as we simply can't be bothered to, so using it as "hard data" is sketchy at best.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So if it takes him 22 hours just to get into second phase I personally would have zero interest in this content, along with I dont know the majority of the players in the game. And just playing content means nothing if people arent clearing it , end result is all that matters at the end of the day, thats like going to work and not gettin a pay check at the end of the pay period i dont know about you but id be pretty pissed If I didnt get paid.

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That is a terrible analogy. Finding a way to clear extremely difficult content is more akin to trying to create something brand new, testing it for errors, and correcting any found and continuously working on it until it is done and works. Yes, inventing something is a more proper analogy than what you said. There is indeed great satisfaction to be had when it is completed, but the trip means just as much as the destination.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

What im sayin is more content, outside of the formula would have been nice than using any resources at all on ultimate because of how small the percentage of people whom could even do this and would actually clear it. Most of the people here are hypocrites, someone asked a while back to add on level rewards to the old binding coil the answer to that person on the forums was an overwhelming no. But yet this comes out and people are all for it, if they gona reuse assets it should be for many people not a small portion of the community that it takes making an unbeatable fight to make them happy.

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Binding Coils and Coils Ultimate are completely different things. Therefore, hypocrisy is not present. Those that like what Coils Ultimate have done like it for both its difficulty and what it actually is. Those that like Binding Coils liked it for the same reasons, but over time Binding Coils became obsolete. That is why people wanted incentive to run it; because otherwise it was a waste of their time, even though they liked it.

You keep going on and on about how Coils Ultimate is wasted resources but as you have been told over and over again it is not. It was content planned before 4.1 that didn't make it with that patch and so it was added later. It in no way has pushed any other content further from being released on its own. If anything pushed that content back it was SE themselves and whatever delays happened. You would still argue that Coils is responsible and is still wasted resources simply because not everyone can run it but that is and always will be false. So long as even 1% of the playerbase enjoys it it was not a waste. And don't try to argue with the whole business perspective because that's just a crock. FF14 isn't Square Enix's only income you know.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

But what you have been doing in this thread and in others , is calling people casual this softcore this and that.

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You mean like you’ve been calling people elitists and toxic in other threads? Or saying that things like Housing and Ultimate are a waste of resources because you think it’s so? I don’t use casual or softcore as an insult, considering I was pretty casual up until Creator when I actively started doing Ex trials and Savage content, and even then, just a few times a month. If you take it as such, that is your own problem. Need I also remind you just who it was that said the opinions and thoughts of the hardcore community—since it’s not the majority—are unimportant and shouldn’t even matter?

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So maybe a good step would be to just acknowledge that maybe your wrong about whats hard and what issnt hard to many people whom take part in the same content as you.

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You should listen to your own advice. :3

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

if they gona reuse assets it should be for many people not a small portion of the community that it takes making an unbeatable fight to make them happy.

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They do. The overwhelming majority of content is meant for varying skill levels. You can grumble about it all you fancy but Ivalice, Shinryu and Skalla are three pieces of content casual players get to enjoy. You claim it an exaggeration, but for hardcore players, no, they haven't had much since Midas. Would you rather they put the used resources into new furniture items? Oh wait, I recall you whined over that too because housing "isn't content."

At some point, you'll have to come to gripes with the fact this isn't Bswpayton Fantasy. And thank the twelve for it.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

So long as even 1% of the playerbase enjoys it it was not a waste.

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Go and make a game that always wholly caters to only 1% of the current playerbase with every update and you'll quickly realize that this is a surefire way to quickly decimate the playerbase, because using resources disproportionately equals wasting resources. Only 1% enjoying a piece of content is only "fine" if it took around 1% of your resources to make.

The fact that everything including the rewards is rehashed is the saving grace of Ultimate, really. Not a whole lot of people are doing it, not a whole lot of resources were spent... You can err on the side of:"That's okay." At this point, Feast rewards are probably a bigger offender in the "wasted resources" category.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Go and make a game that always wholly caters to only 1% of the current playerbase with every update and you'll quickly realize that this is a surefire way to quickly decimate the playerbase, because using resources disproportionately equals wasting resources. Only 1% enjoying a piece of content is only "fine" if it took around 1% of your resources to make.

The fact that everything including the rewards is rehashed is the saving grace of Ultimate, really. Not a whole lot of people are doing it, not a whole lot of resources were spent... You can err on the side of:"That's okay." At this point, Feast rewards are probably a bigger offender in the "wasted resources" category.

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Your argument would make more sense if this was something SE did on a frequent basis, but this is the first of its kind, and was released alongside other content for the other 99% of players. It was still requested by the 1%, and, contrary to what some people say, their opinions and desires should also be taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Who do people think they are to say this was a waste of resources? .

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It's a total waste of resources. There aren't even that many people streaming it, and people are mostly just talking about it because the game right now has no real content for anyone to do that isn't the same as they have been doing since HW. Already the talking is dying down a bit as people are getting tired of streams that involve wiping to three minute phase mechanics, and soon the non world-firsters probably are going to give up for sanity's sake.

It's not puggable at all,which is a lot of what made creator and omega have any long term play value, and there's no gear upgrades to make it more farmable, so there's going to be a lot less incentive to keep doing it over time. It's not something people are going to grow into doing, or be reused later on for any content even unsynced.

This will end up worse than 1v1 pvp for long term usefulness.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

(...)

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You do realize those doing ultimate had no content for 1,5 year to do? And u're telling them about no content?

Also, please...the actual asset creation is the smallest part of creating a fight. The length of development is about balancing the fight as it is played, to prevent bugs, people cheating, the fight breaking the servers due to memory leaks, the fight actually being within human reflex time and capabilities, the time it took to think of and layout the attacks they wanted, and to conceive of the level of difficulty in terms of game mechanics. They didn't give this to an intern and told him to make a hard fight, which he coded in a weekend. Stuff like this is the experimental content they talked about when they reduced the amount of dungeons we'd get in a patch cycle, and even the experimental content they do give is sparse.

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Originally Posted by l1nk

You do realize those doing ultimate had no content for 1,5 year to do? And u're telling them about no content?

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And after this, they still will have no content to do. The difference is they will raid log in a week instead of a day. And people will stop talking about this the moment any one group beats it, because the question of who will beat this first is really the only matter of interest to it. You can't make content for that group with any longevity short of making it literally impossible, and every single bit of "hard" content in this game massively falls off in interest a couple of weeks after release, and needs constant refreshing to get people to do it.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

Ultimate or not, there would not be more content in 4.1 anyway.
3.1, story, 2 dungeons, raid24, Lord of verminion, Diadem, beast tribe , 1 EX. (nothing later in 3.15 except relic and 1 side quest)
4.1, story, 1 dungeons, raid24, GC dungeons with your squad, new map stuff harder, Delivery quest, beast tribe, side quest, 1 EX, Ultimate, Shirogane. (4.15 rivals wing, perform, Eureka, relic?)

(ultimate or not, they have decide to stop doing more dungeons in 4.1 4.3 and 4.5 patch way before)

Basically, more stuff in 4.1 than 3.1.

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Thank you for adding this. To say that we have less content is ridiculous. It feels empty...but that's only because some of the biggest complainers here are going through so much content within a week and then whine that they have nothing to do. Blaming Ultimate on the lack of content is just troll bait - except the troll believes the ridiculous statements they are posting.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Thank you for adding this. To say that we have less content is ridiculous. It feels empty...but that's only because some of the biggest complainers here are going through so much content within a week and then whine that they have nothing to do. Blaming Ultimate on the lack of content is just troll bait - except the troll believes the ridiculous statements they are posting.

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Squadrons: useless. I had all jobs at 60 at the start of the expansion, and I have tanks and healers, so there's no appeal to taking longer to run through a pre-50 dungeon for no reward beyond a couple of emotes. It's actually worse than squadron's original launch because there is no real long term point to doing them. In a meta sense, squadrons are just players beta testing square enix companion AI for the time when the game goes majority solo for its low level content, but we are doing it as "content."

Delivery quests: take five minutes to craft 6 items. Turn them in once per week for scrips. I get more longevity out of doing the daily cacpot than I do it.

New map stuff/canals: same as HW content, same issues (boring, mostly done for artificially scarce optional items, rewards are pure rng). Actually worse because now its stacking rng just to get the "new" content.

Beast tribe: the same things we have been doing since ARR with no creativity. The tribes were getting tired in HW, with the Moogles at least something different by being a new crafting tribe, but how many times does SE expect us to click on nodes and use a mount's special ability on them, or kill a small amount of enemies? They have the same problem as SB FATES, it;s the same tired formula with slightly better exp rewards.

the ex fights are on par for HW release, and at best had slightly more longevity than them. Even now Susano and Lakshimi are dead, same as Bis and ravana.

Shirogane...come on, that was one day of grabbing a house.

***

SB is bad because too much of it is the same as HW, but slightly worse (albeit with better rewards.) You do the same things you did more or less exactly in HW, down to the same timer and pattern. Leveling a job in SB hasn't changed in any way, there is nothing new like POTD to add variety. Leveling a craft is the same way, just quicker since leves are so much more potent now post 60. The big innovation in SB was redesigning jobs because they reached their maximum threshold of buttons and they couldn't add new abilities and keep them playable for most of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Also, please...the actual asset creation is the smallest part of creating a fight. The length of development is about balancing the fight as it is played, to prevent bugs, people cheating, the fight breaking the servers due to memory leaks, the fight actually being within human reflex time and capabilities, the time it took to think of and layout the attacks they wanted, and to conceive of the level of difficulty in terms of game mechanics. They didn't give this to an intern and told him to make a hard fight, which he coded in a weekend. Stuff like this is the experimental content they talked about when they reduced the amount of dungeons we'd get in a patch cycle, and even the experimental content they do give is sparse.

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You act like this took ample time away from something else. Do you have any experience to claim such or are you assuming? The devs themselves said Ultimate had no impact on us only having a single dungeon, but let's assume it did. Who really cares? Yes, let's have another dull dungeon where no one cares about mechanics, tanks pull everything and nothing requires any real challenge because things barely tickle. If they actually changed things up in regards to dungeon I might care. Alas, they don't. So I'm far more interested in Ultimate, personally, even if I may never clear it.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's a total waste of resources.

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By that logic, Turn 5, 9 and 13 (maybe even 12) were a waste of resources.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

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So instead of essentially saying everything is useless, why don't you take a break and wait until 4.2? That's what quite a few people do...they take a break once they are done with whatever they wanted to do with a certain patch, and then they take a break from it. If what's available doesn't interest you, I don't see why not just take a break for a few months. Lakshmi and Susano have been around for 4 months...so yeah, of course they will be dead at this point with all the farm parties that have occurred over them prior to Omega being dropped. I actually enjoy squadrons and quite a few others also enjoy it, so it's your opinion that it's useless. You want to talk about patch 4.1 as a whole and get a full blown discussion over it, make a thread about it. I am just mostly contending the complaints against Ultimate in this thread.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's not something people are going to grow into doing, or be reused later on for any content even unsynced.

This will end up worse than 1v1 pvp for long term usefulness.

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The problem is this right here. People keep looking at Ultimate as though it is content made to be "useful", if I may borrow your word. It's not. It's purely a challenge for those who've requested one.

The same way other parts of the game have been changed/added because of the requests of the more casual players. (And for the record I'm one of those casual palyers. I've beaten everything but Delta4 and I don't plan to any time soon lol And ultimate doesn't bother me at all. It's not meant for me)

This content is just that. A challenge. The reward is beating it. That's it. It's not meant to help casual players progress further, or be played for years on end, or help keep you busy until the next patch. It's only meant to give a challenge to players who've mastered all other content.

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Originally Posted by heynowjose

This content is just that. A challenge. The reward is beating it. That's it. It's not meant to help casual players progress further, or be played for years on end, or help keep you busy until the next patch. It's only meant to give a challenge to players who've mastered all other content.

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And there's nothing wrong with that.
The reason games like Dark Souls, Devil May Cry and Cuphead (for a more recent example) are popular is because people like the challenge those games provide.

It doesn't need to be useful, you might only play the game for gearing up and progressing but there are others who actually just like playing for fun, and if it takes fights like Unending Coil for that then who are you to take that away from them?

To all the people complaining that Ultimate exists...

This game is not catered to you and you alone.

If everyone could just be like "I don't like X so X shouldn't exist" this game would lose money.

This is normal for a MMO, they have tons of different kinds of content in order to cater to tons of different kinds of players. The game isn't meant to cater 100% to one type of player.

Person A likes leveling, questing, and dungeons so they play.
Person B likes savage raids and difficult content so they play.
Person C likes gathering and crafting and working the market board so they play.
Person D likes RP and housing so they play.

I mean I don't like PVP in this game much should I say it shouldn't exist just because I don't like it?
I don't RP either so should we remove housing and all RP elements to the game and delete Balmung just because I don't like it? ( just a joke don't lynch me D: )

Oh and btw this is from someone who doesn't have access to ultimate either. My static is pretty casual and we are still working on the last bit of getting Neo Exdeath down.

I also probably would never put in the time and effort needed to clear Ultimate either since I am lazy, but it is there for people who love that kind of challenge even if I am not one of them.

What happened to the actual point of this thread? I've just read through page after page discussing the merits or lack thereof of creating content of this nature, but very little on the question posed in the original post. So how is ultimate?