Dropped Items and Materia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

^ I'm all in favor of this. ^

DH, Ifrit, Moogles, etc.. should all drop materials for crafting uber items. And those items could be meldable (perhaps with a slot limit or larger risk)

This fix would help address the current drop rate issues (replace all weapon/totem drops with crafted items and you can have the item/weapon you want crafted) and it would make the endgame content much more popular.

Also, I wonder if the devs underestimated how quick and easy it is for ppl to make materia.

---

While think that is a good system for the majority of items I still want a few things that you can only obtain if you earned it yourself. I don't want people having an Moogle weapon when they didn't even win the fight themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

While think that is a good system for the majority of items I still want a few things that you can only obtain if you earned it yourself. I don't want people having an Moogle weapon when they didn't even win the fight themselves.

---

Agreed.

A Player-Leve system would be ideal for this, as a player can contract their own crafting leve through an NPC - trading mats, leve reward, and insurance cost to the NPC to set up the leve.

A crafter can then browse and accept player leves in the same way they do normal ones - if the crafter fails, the player who created the leve won't lose the mats, but they do lose the insurance on the leve, if they succeed, the crafter gets the reward, and the leve creator gets the item.

It opens up a whole new world for crafting U/U materials and melding U/U items as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Agreed.

A Player-Leve system would be ideal for this, as a player can contract their own crafting leve through an NPC - trading mats, leve reward, and insurance cost to the NPC to set up the leve.

A crafter can then browse and accept player leves in the same way they do normal ones - if the crafter fails, the player who created the leve won't lose the mats, but they do lose the insurance on the leve, if they succeed, the crafter gets the reward, and the leve creator gets the item.

It opens up a whole new world for crafting U/U materials and melding U/U items as well.

---

That is a truly sexy idea. I love it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Agreed.

A Player-Leve system would be ideal for this, as a player can contract their own crafting leve through an NPC - trading mats, leve reward, and insurance cost to the NPC to set up the leve.

A crafter can then browse and accept player leves in the same way they do normal ones - if the crafter fails, the player who created the leve won't lose the mats, but they do lose the insurance on the leve, if they succeed, the crafter gets the reward, and the leve creator gets the item.

It opens up a whole new world for crafting U/U materials and melding U/U items as well.

---

Why not just have request-meld through bazaar?

Bazaar melding would be great. It would at least give SE the basis for melding u/u in the future if they decide to let us do so.

Not to mention that having everything be crafted adds more dumb randomness to getting gear (HQ items yay). Plus it's a little less exciting to never have a complete item drop. Seriously, crafting is more than good enough right now. It doesn't need to control the entire game like it does. Meldable U/U items will keep crafting a good way to make money while slightly loosening the grip it has on every player's throat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

While think that is a good system for the majority of items I still want a few things that you can only obtain if you earned it yourself. I don't want people having an Moogle weapon when they didn't even win the fight themselves.

---

Well then you can still make the items non-tradable. Similar to the way we did repair. Which is also, from what I understand how they are going to change the materia meld system to. You put your items up that are to be synthesised, in the repair/synth window. DoH then access it as they do now with the window to repair items. This allows them to creat items with rare materials, do melds, and not comprimise either party in situations were its possible to dupe, steal, or otherwise create bad situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coglin

Well then you can still make the items non-tradable. Similar to the way we did repair. Which is also, from what I understand how they are going to change the materia meld system to. You put your items up that are to be synthesised, in the repair/synth window. DoH then access it as they do now with the window to repair items. This allows them to creat items with rare materials, do melds, and not comprimise either party in situations were its possible to dupe, steal, or otherwise create bad situations.

---

Allowing items to be melded without trading them would definitely be something I would like to see implemented. Thinking back, I do seem to remember hearing something about this being a possibility.

Here's to hoping items out of Cutter's Cry and Aurum Vale don't get outclassed by double-slotted generics.

Your mom's a double-slotted generic.

Hmmm.. so apparently enmity +/-1 makes a difference of +/- 0.1% enmity generation. I suppose enmity materia isn't anything to write home about is it, compared to well-timed 20% increases granted for the duration of Sentinel as well as simply doing more damage.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Translation%29

Suddenly, Ifrit's Blade and Morbid Mogblade sound much more desirable than a Winglet stacked with Touch of Rage.

Except you can still put vit and dex on a winglet and even if Ifrit is the best (mogblade still sucks) THAT STILL DOESNT FUCKING MATTER BECAUSE IT STILL WASTES THE MATERIA SYSTEM

Mogblade is far from useless. It has the 2nd highest Damage value, which also remains considerably higher than then Winglet.

DEX and VIT have comparably low, if not lower, effects on Block/Parry Rate and Defense respectively.

Materia system has use in customization, however I will agree that with every bit of info we discover the system is appearing to be more and more useless. The real solution, in my opinion, is for them to first make it so stats actually make a substantial difference.

No the real solution to the materia system becoming useless is to allow all items regardless of race, creed, gender, color, sexual orientation, or weight to be melded.

When stats mean next to nothing, so does a system based entirely on adding more of them.

Read: I don't give 2 shits whether or not I can meld my Ifrit's Blade with VIT, DEX, Rage or whatever if they basically do nothing.

Step 1: Fix stats
Step 2: Observe balance
Step 3: Restore balance (This may include allowing melding of U/U)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Materia system has use in customization, however I will agree that with every bit of info we discover the system is appearing to be more and more useless. The real solution, in my opinion, is for them to first make it so stats actually make a substantial difference.

---

Yeah so those mages out there with +70 INT hats can finally start doing more damage. The materia system is fine guys, I LOVE my mogblade!

nothing is wrong with [materia wepons > drop weapons], but [drop weapons > regular weapons] right now.
why you want to put crafters out of business? i never got the fetish with doing a couple more points of damage than the other guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

nothing is wrong with [materia wepons > drop weapons], but [drop weapons > regular weapons] right now.
why you want to put crafters out of business? i never got the fetish with doing a couple more points of damage than the other guy.

---

I am fine with putting crafters out of business if the alternative is making real content (that isn't a dumb minigame or grinding wolves) useless


p.s. making drops meldable wouldnt put crafters out of business.

p.p.s. This is a Final Fantasy game stop trying to make a Steel Longsword with some colorful candy attached to it better than an Excalibur

Also hey stats do plenty. 2% here, 1% there. This is an MMORPG and it's not like you're going from basic gear to full endgame. You're going from 1 piece of basic gear to 1 slightly better piece of basic gear. Gaining 20 dex isn't going to double your damage if it comes from a stupid hat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

I am fine with putting crafters out of business if the alternative is making real content (that isn't a dumb minigame or grinding wolves) useless


p.s. making drops meldable wouldnt put crafters out of business.

---

LOL Brannigan, it seems like 95% of all your posts are pure crafter/crafting hate.

You really need to let this go -- or play a new game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

LOL Brannigan, it seems like 95% of all your posts are pure crafter/crafting hate.

You really need to let this go -- or play a new game.

---

Hi there forums poster Zantetsuken. If you read the OP of this thread then you'll see I do not hate crafting - far from it, as I think that the materia system will die off if dropped items aren't meldable. I might hate crafters, though - especially when they post stupid shit like

Quote:

---

nothing is wrong with [materia wepons > drop weapons]

---

Why is this stupid? Well,

Quote:

---

Turning a zillion cheap linen 40+ armor pieces into materia every 20 minutes in a party of 8 getting 280k SP an hour AOE nuking wolves on THM and then putting those materia into a slot machine on crafted items to achieve the best gear in the game is not a fun endgame.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Also hey stats do plenty. 2% here, 1% there. This is an MMORPG and it's not like you're going from basic gear to full endgame. You're going from 1 piece of basic gear to 1 slightly better piece of basic gear. Gaining 20 dex isn't going to double your damage if it comes from a stupid hat.

---

Not every stat is broken or ineffective. Personally I don't have any issue with the Attributes (STR, DEX, INT, etc.) They simply give diminishing returns at higher levels, and also have unique bonuses per class that are quite noticeable in effect offensively.

However there are stats, such as Defense, Evasion, Magic Evasion, any elemental stat, etc. that have very low effects. Now we find out that enmity materia also has a negligible effect.

Crafting should allow a player to be self-sufficient and provide that player with a good way to make gil. It shouldn't have a stranglehold over the entire game. ESPECIALLY when that stranglehold makes endgame pointless.

What they should do is for U/U items is make an upgrade system for u/u items. This idea could also make old content have use once more. Take the Blade dancer boots from Darkhold I think its like 3 dex and 3 evasion or something like that.

Basically what they could do is make you use items from the respective dungeon upgrade U/U item's to make them better than materia items. So Lets take those blade dancer boots from darkhold with 3 Dex and 3 evasion and see what they could look like upgraded.

No upgrade: 3 dex 3 evasion

Lv. 1 6 DEX 6 Evasion

Lv. 2 9 Dex 9 evasion.

Lv. 3 12 Dex 12 evasion

Lv. 4 15 Dex 15 evasion

Lv. 5 18 Dex 18 evasion. ??? bonus stat. (5+ str)

Now the items to upgrade them should drop from the sub or main boss from the instance raid or open world dungeon or HNM. with this system you could make almost all the content in the game right now more desirable than it ever was.

1. This system would make U/U and U gear more worth while.

2. This system could make content last much longer.

3. Add's long term goals to the game.

Some of you might argue I could just dbl meld 2 evasion materia on my shoes but, you can't put dex on that. I feel that are plenty of good items in the game if only they had better stats on them.

The game will die if the continuing trend of double materia items > anything else. Plain and simple.

Since we don't have any current real raid items to compare from and only the piddly 8 man primal weapons, time will tell what they intend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Hi there forums poster Zantetsuken. If you read the OP of this thread then you'll see I do not hate crafting - far from it, as I think that the materia system will die off if dropped items aren't meldable. I might hate crafters, though - especially when they post stupid shit like [...]
,

---

For as much disdain for crafters as you seem to have, I'm rather shocked that you don't seem to have an issue over /groveling at their feet in order to get them to meld your U/U items -- Or will that be your next rant should U/U melding become a reality?

I've said this before, and I'll say it here: Forbidden meld gear should be more powerful than U/U gear. A higher risk and cost of failure should always bring a much higher reward.

When you fail a forbidden meld, you lose multiple materia and items. If the items and materia lost are top tier, it will often be equal to a loss of tens of millions of gil.

When you fail an Ifrit battle, or DH run what have you lost? 60 minutes max? Maybe some gear durability and tapers? Sure it takes a bit of skill (but not much once you have practiced), and the drop rates make it seem a like a slot machine. But face it, when you wipe, you are no worse off then when you entered.

Yes, U/U drops should be better.. at least as good as 2-meld items, but thats it. Unless the dev team decides that instances and primals require a 1 million gil entrance fee, I'll have no sympathy for those that whine about Forbidden melds > Instance gear.


You may not like the fact that it's a boring grind to level crafting, or that crafters on your server seem to hate you (I wonder why....) but leveling EVERY job is a grind. One involves killing the same group of mobs over and over again, another involves achieving a successful synthesis over and over again, and yet another involves hitting a gathering point over and over again. None of these take much skill and they are all glorified chores that unlock to profit/fun/etc in the end.

But that's an MMO for you.

You're missing the key point here. By definition MMO stands for massively multiplayer. Not massively sit in town and grind best gear in game (or MSITGBGO). Under no circumstances should gear you can solo be anywhere near in power to gear you have to obtain with multiple players. Otherwise what's the point of the MMO? So the solo players can get their jolies? That's where Skyrim comes in with their broken enchanting/smithing system if they want that kind of system in their games. Even anyone who's played that game with maxed enchanting/smithing can attest to the fact that exploring dungeons lost their luster once they created the best one shot everything gear.

You can argue the lost gil, time, and gambling casino factor that it takes to meld gear. The fact is, you can do it completely solo. Guess how long it took me to get a full set of double materia gear? A week. A whole week to trump every item in the game besides weapons currently. If I wasn't waiting to see what else they completely redo and say lol-sorry, I'd probably have a full set of triple materia by now.

Like I said it's too early to tell because we don't have any real raids in the game. But if the trend of materia > anything you can get in multiplayer content continues, this game will be an embarrassing footnote in Square history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

For as much disdain for crafters as you seem to have, I'm rather shocked that you don't seem to have an issue over /groveling at their feet in order to get them to meld your U/U items. Crafters on your server seem to hate you (I wonder why....)

---

Quit assuming things. As much as you want to believe it, he doesn't hate crafters, and you are just being a spiteful bitch who can't grasp the ideas behind the thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I've said this before, and I'll say it here: Forbidden meld gear should be more powerful than U/U gear. A higher risk and cost of failure should always bring a much higher reward.

When you fail a forbidden meld, you lose multiple materia and items. If the items and materia lost are top tier, it will often be equal to a loss of tens of millions of gil.

---

Okay, so you are another one of the people hinging on the future itemization. Where are these multi-million dollar materials that you can lose? Have they announced anything of the sort? Cobalt pieces are like 10-15k each. We're going on the third patch of this new and supposedly final itemization system and there is absolutely no promise or reason for a brighter tomorrow. Are they in any way going to incorporate the battle classes into obtaining these new expensive crafted items, such as having the materials be boss drops? That's the true problem. We don't give a fuck if the items are crafted or not but we want a reason to leave the town to advance our character's gear. Like I've said before, there is a system that can be implemented that gives responsibilities and opportunities to all three types of players and they have not shown any signs of progress towards it, and it is absolutely disgusting how left out battle classes are in their own gear progression.

The items we have in game now are TRASH and it is a complete joke that you consider them worthy of competing with end-game drops through a 25% meld chance. When they add materials that come from behemoths and kujatas, and much rarer gathered items, those can compete with our dropped gears, not cobalt and rosewood that level 30s can dig up 500+ a day. This system is sickening and I speak that as a player, not a fighter or crafter or gatherer. There is no incentive to actually PLAY THE FUCKING GAME, and that's why we're complaining. The systems they are adding are no reason for hope either, and the only thing they've said on the subject is that it's not going to change.

They have no idea what they are doing or how to make a good system for all three types of players. Their silence is also not encouraging. Someone is getting fucked either way, and if dropped gear comes out that's better than 2-3 melded items then crafters will come here to complain that they are worthless, because people would rather play a game and do dungeons and fights than spam materia and just hope it doesn't blow up. The entire system is flawed it's not about crafters and materia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

[...]I do not hate crafting - far from it, as I think that the materia system will die off if dropped items aren't meldable.

---

Just so we are clear. He doesn't hate crafting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

I might hate crafters, though - especially when they post stupid shit like [...]

---

Well, that certainly would explain statements like:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

Why do you think the materia system was created in the first place? It was to keep crafters relevant as the game evolves. Unfortunately they screwed up by not allowing U/U gear to be meldable and once again placed way too much power into the hands of crafters. Players should rely on crafters for materia, but not for the gear that it goes into (past entry-level stuff)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

[...] Dropped gear should be better because it takes more people and requires a pulse to get.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

You're right. If someone wins at a slot machine he deserves to outclass you in the gear you and your friends adventured to get. It's a very realistic system in that no matter how hard you work you'll never be as well off as someone who just gets lucky and is born into money or whatever.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

I am fine with putting crafters out of business if the alternative is making real content (that isn't a dumb minigame or grinding wolves) useless

---

So yeah, he hates crafters, or at least is frothing-at-the-mouth jealous of them.

That said, I agree with people that want NM and dungeon drops to be better. But I do not agree that melding is the way to do it.

I would prefer that U/U drops be nearly equal to double-melded items, but also get unique stats that cannot be obtained through materia. Things like boosts to attack speed, Extra effects on attacking (which all the Primal weapons have), bonuses to flank attacks, and reductions in cool-down timers for specific skills would make U/U drops a viable option to materia gear.

But I have zero respect for those who complain that a +1 Winglet that is triple-melded with Heavens' Fist (which statistically costs 60 tier IV Heavens' Fist materia , 20 +1 winglets and 20 catalysts) will be doing slightly more DPS than ifrit's blade - something that a player is almost certain to get if he does the fight enough times - and at virtually no cost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

But I have zero respect for those who complain that a +1 Winglet that is triple-melded with Heavens' Fist (which statistically costs 60 tier IV Heavens' Fist materia , 20 +1 winglets and 20 catalysts) will be doing slightly more DPS than ifrit's blade - something that a player is almost certain to get if he does the fight enough times - and at virtually no cost.

---

Just to add to this, I'd bet a large sum of gil on Ifrit's Blade still providing higher DPS than a Cobalt Winglet perfectly triple melded with Heaven's Fist IVs. Though, that can't even be tested since a GLA sword can't be melded with Heaven's Fist. Another reason why Ifrit's Blade is very desirable.

All I know is right now, the Blue W weapons we've gotten from Ifrit and Moogle are overall superior to crafted weapons - save for mages. I won't argue the mage point, since it's obvious the itemization for their weapons is quite bad at this point. Though even then the Maleficent Mogstaff is a lovely choice for THM - though unlike DoW weapons it can be bested with a materia-enhanced crafted weapon.

The point is that they carry indispensable, unique effects and/or stats that cannot be obtained for that slot via materia (ie. Attack Power on a Sword.)

A major argument before was that materia-enhanced gear was beating out looted W gear. We've learned since then that that's not the case. Best weapons for all DoW are the Ifrit and Mog weapons. So materia-crafted gear is not the best gear in the game. We just need some equally potent Blue W armor, since we've only been getting weapons.

Now, the other argument supporting melding of W gear - which is ironically contradictory with the previous one - is that provided the best gear in the game is W gear, then the materia system becomes useless. Now putting aside the fact that this argument is a stance against W gear being best in slot while the previous argument is for W gear being best in slot and that both of these arguments are coming from the same people - the statement that going down this path will render the materia system useless is entirely conjecture. The logical step is for the team to carry on along their vision, and should they observe at some point in the future that the materia system is becoming less and less used by the community they will without a doubt decide to make some changes.

The thought is that looted W gear will be valuable and best in game, yet will also make use of the materia system for further enhancement and/or customization. Problem with that is it isn't a solution to anything so much as a slap-on, lazy use of materia just to serve as an excuse to say "hey, you can use it now so it isn't useless." The reality of it is, all anyone will do with Ifrit and Mog weapons - given the ability to meld them - is meld it with the attribute for the class that increases their DPS, or in the case of mages some magic accuracy and/or healing potency. Only sounds useful for mages tbh. For DoW, it's simply taking the best and making it even better.

Unique, in-demand and unattainable-via-materia stats on W gear will make them more than desirable for every slot. They simply need to get the itemization right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Just so we are clear. He doesn't hate crafting.

...

So yeah, he hates crafters, or at least is frothing-at-the-mouth jealous of them.

---

He's just jealous of them. He tried crafting once but he just wasn't a good enough player to do it successfully. So now all he can do is fight monsters where his skill and knowledge of the game is the deciding factor. He can't make or obtain the majority of the best gear in the game by killing what he would probably claim to be "difficult" monsters (pshaw!), and personally, I think that's what he deserves.

If you can't invest hundreds of hours of spamming Standard synthesis into this game... well, you should just go "play a new game" Brannigan.

The entire point that you are missing while you are spamming the term "Blue W" over and over and stalking through Brannigan's posts to prove an irrelevant point is that crafting is easily incorporated in the process of obtaining those end-game items and it is not necessarily exclusive or mandatory to punish crafters to have a functioning and worthwhile end-game for fighters as well.

Crafted trash items that are spammable and worth nothing being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

Straight drop rare/ex items like ifrit weapons being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

Do you honestly still not see why we're bitching? Either way you think it'll go it's a downhill run, and that's completely ignoring the materia issue. The people who are even dividing the types of items into groups such as "crafted" and "Unique untradeable" are the very source of the problem.

Rare materials from bosses and harder gathers, crafted pop items, along with abjuration papers from bosses used in uncursing crafted items belongs in this game more so than XI. Items in MMOs are not white and black and there is a beautiful land of grey in between that gives happiness and involvement to all types of players, and they aren't even looking for it. The dodore doublet is okay, but the adaman hauberk in XI was brilliant. Crafters even had a small part in obtaining ToAU AF and upgrading the rest of the AF through CoP. Some slots, a crafted piece was best or good enough (Dusk gloves, Cerberus Mantle, Thalassocrat), some slots a rare/ex or combat piece were best (Walahra Turban, Rajas Ring, Peacock charm/Sea Torque) and some needed both (Adaman Hauberk, Shura Togi.) These are the types of things we should be asking for and seeing more of, not trying to justify and support crafted trash being the best or saying that rare/ex will come and win the day in the future. Notice that I listed Dusk and Cerberus Mantles under crafted items and you'll see exactly what I mean about homogenizing gear sources.

For this game to work, all three groups need to be happy, everyone needs their own hand in the end-game basket. On the road we're headed, someone is being left out of the club, no matter which way you go.

Sidenote: Blue W is still a meaningless term that only you are using because SE doesn't know how to do tiers. Please realize this.

Not saying there aren't itemization balance issues at the moment in the game.

Just saying that allowing W gear to be melded isn't some miraculous solution to these issues. Also saying it's far too soon to pass judgement. Definitely at least not until we see what the two Lv 50 dungeons of 1.21 bring us as loot, as well as the new materia that gets added.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stufoo

Crafted trash items that are spammable and worth nothing being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

Straight drop rare/ex items like ifrit weapons being the best is BAD FOR THE GAME.

---

BEST is a rather relative term. I imagine that you and the OP mean it to be something like highest dps. There was stuff in FFXI that was the best in different areas but for straight number crunchers, there was an absolute best DPS for every item in the game and it was primarily Relic (at least pre-abyssea).

In that case, there is no way around having either melded or dropped items at the top of the list unless you want every item to be completely balanced in damage ouput.

Is that what you are asking for? 5-melded items to be equal in DPS power to Ifrit or Moogle weapons? The ease in obtaining the latter compared to the latter means that DPS equality will render useless crafters and materia. (Something the OP seems to be keenly interested in)

I'm really curious as to what you think is a proper solution.

And don't tell me that melding U/U items will even come close to addressing this issue, because it won't.

Lol holy hell.

Okay first of all at no point have I ever said that you can out-dps melee Ifrit drops with materia'd generics. I have said that Ifrit's blade is not as good as a melded hq winglet. This is because a gladiator's job is not to do damage, it is to 1) keep the monster's attention and 2) not die, which enmity and dex/vitality help with respectively. The theoretical winglet with attack power example might be the worst thing I've ever seen

Quote:

---

Is that what you are asking for? 5-melded items to be equal in DPS power to Ifrit or Moogle weapons? The ease in obtaining the latter compared to the latter means that DPS equality will render useless crafters and materia. (Something the OP seems to be keenly interested in)

---

Okay, okay. Once again I will very clearly state this:

It is not A Good Game if all the best stuff comes from crafters with no need to ever leave town and fight monsters. It is also not really a good thing if you can just buy all the best stuff. The reason players who like fighting monsters continue to log in after they have beaten all the monsters is to chase gear upgrades and to help their friends defeat the monsters.

If there is no item incentive to fight a monster more than once then players stop logging in or just stand idle in Ul'dah. If they do this long enough then they realize that they are paying a monthly fee for IRC and quit the game.

If monsters drop good gear then it is A Good Thing. Players have incentive to stop gambling on materia, leave town, and go fight monsters. The problem with this good gear being unmeldable is that upgrades are also likely to be unmeldable (since they will come from later-released or more difficult content and thus also be U/U). This creates a situation where the player doesn't care about materia for that particular slot. As more players acquire more U/U gear the materia system fades out of use and is wasted.

Think about this: if, when AF comes out, it is anywhere near the power of a good double meld, what materia will still be worth getting? Shield, weapon (for a couple of classes, maybe - until AF weapons come out), and..?

This hurts crafters because right now the materia grind is the only thing that lets crafters sell anything at all. If Cobalt Cuirasses weren't being removed from the game then they wouldn't sell because everyone already has one. There's no rare materials to make a rare piece with and the craft grind can be done for free with leves so being a level 50 armorer is nothing special.

A single meld on U/U changes things up. The materia grind continues, but not necessarily because you're trying to get massive amounts of the stuff to destroy on multi-melds. Instead, you're looking for the rare materia - the perfect tier IVs - so that you have the very best stats you can get in the robe you got from the Garlean Technomancer boss or whatever. Since materia can't be removed from an item without being destroyed, you need more of it for your next upgrade.

So, in short, what I am asking for is to allow the melding of U/U items with a single materia. The main point of it is to get classes involved with obtaining their equipment and remove some of the RNG slavery while giving crafters a way to continue to make money off of their generics. There have been plenty of other good ideas in this thread like having boss monsters drop materials for powerful bind-on-equip items, but this should be done along with melding U/U.

I'm not going to bother responding to all the quotes you use to demonstrate how much I "hate" crafters. Anyone who knows how to read won't interpret them that way. You should add that post to your portfolio for when you fill out that Fox News job application.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

It is not A Good Game if all the best stuff comes from crafters with no need to ever leave town and fight monsters. It is also not really a good thing if you can just buy all the best stuff.

---

aaaand here's the funny part: how can one possibly get the things they need for making 3+ tier IV melded gear without ever leaving town?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

aaaand here's the funny part: how can one possibly get the things they need for making 3+ tier IV melded gear without ever leaving town?

---

Brannigan yet again proving to us what an imbecile he is.

He would have us believe you could simply buy materia and gear from other people "without ever leaving town". As if there is some sort of ward set aside in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa Lominsa for what you might call a market.

Maybe you should actually play this game before you complain about it BRANNIGAN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

aaaand here's the funny part: how can one possibly get the things they need for making 3+ tier IV melded gear without ever leaving town?

---

you get spiritbond for crafting and gathering exp :) plus market wards exist.

I mean, jesus, you even quoted the bolded "and fight monsters" part. Also p.s. you know as well as I do that burning down wolves for spiritbond is a shitty way to get amazing any gear

look I realize you don't read posts before replying to them (as evidenced on the very first page of this thread) but at least read what you quoted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chadwick

Brannigan yet again proving to us what an imbecile he is.

He would have us believe you could simply buy materia and gear from other people "without ever leaving town". As if there is some sort of ward set aside in Ul'dah, Gridania, and Limsa Lominsa for what you might call a market.

Maybe you should actually play this game before you complain about it BRANNIGAN.

---

aaaaand the gil comes from what exactly? Not leaving town after all, so you must have some secret method to earning the massive amounts of gil required without leaving town if you're telling me one simply purchases everything. No need to try being a smartass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brannigan

I mean, jesus, you even quoted the bolded "and fight monsters" part. Also p.s. you know as well as I do that burning down wolves for spiritbond is a shitty way to get amazing any gear

look I realize you don't read posts before replying to them (as evidenced on the very first page of this thread) but at least read what you quoted.

---

"with no need to leave town and fight monsters" must mean one doesn't leave town or fight monsters. You can't do both after all. Thus I interpreted a crafter that stays in town all day every day and somehow generates the income in gil necessary to spam forbidden melds and get the "best gear in the game."

Quote:

---

"with no need to leave town and fight monsters" must mean one doesn't leave town or fight monsters.

---

Where I come from "and" and "or" have different meanings. Basically, you don't have to [stop playing a stupid minigame and fight some monsters] to spiritbond or get gil (since gathering, too, is a stupid minigame that is entirely a solo endeavor).

Also holy fuck seriously getting caught up on this crap again. The point is you don't need a party to get any of this crap. You don't need to fight anything more difficult than a regular solo monster. You don't need to put forth any effort that a bot couldn't. This is a bad system.