The arrogance of some people

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Originally Posted by Eothas

And whats the problem? WHMs should stop with this mentality of saving all skills for emergencies in dungeons, they are just cutting their power for no reason.

Sometimes I start DPSing without even using regen on the tank, just to finish with a Benediction. Example: In the big pack after second boss in fractal, I start with Presence of Mind, Holy Spam + Assize and finish with a beautiful Benediction on the tank, I always get at least 2 commendations when I do that, going 3k+ DPS there.

I use Tetra regularly, thats how I afford time and mana to DPS. Lots of damage going on? Instead of saving swiftcast for rez, I use swiftcast + Medica II, throw a Tetra in a DPS and Benediction on the tank, boom, situation already under control.

If I were always saving skills for the tank when he is almost dying, my hands would be tied almost all the time.

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Hmm, I might just have to give this a go when I start leveling WHM. So thank you. ^^

So, all of you healers who are strenuously opposed to DPSing, how do you spend all that free time you have just standing around staring at the tank? Don't you get bored of doing nothing the majority of the time?

Personally, as a main WHM, I take a lot of pride in pushing my DPS as hard as I can (and maybe just a little pleasure in giving tanks who don't know me mild heart attacks by letting them drop as low as possible without actually letting them die), but even in tougher content or during large pulls I do my best to toss out dots or at least fluid aura. As a healer, this is my job, because dead mobs can't do damage; helping the party kill them quicker is more efficient than spamming heals.

I really don't see how asking a healer to deal some damage between heals is arrogant. The DOTs are there to be used, no?

Is it arrogant to ask a summoner to cast eye for an eye, or a quick raise? Or to ask a bard for a specific song?

Hmm...

Funny, in the conjurer quest line the little girl cries "I ONLY WANNA HEAL" and you have to explain to her that she's an idiot.

I guess that went right over some peoples heads.

Have to agree with quite a few of you. A healer standing there doing nothing, until hp bars drop till a heal is necessary is just plain laziness and a detriment to the party. They are about as useful as icemages and silent bards.

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Originally Posted by Alysanne

Funny, in the conjurer quest line the little girl cries "I ONLY WANNA HEAL" and you have to explain to her that she's an idiot.

I guess that went right over some peoples heads.

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rofl. Sylphie doesn't want to do anything but heal in the context of not learning the other parts of conjuring i.e. talking to the elementals and such. Has nothing to do with the player and anyone conflating the two is just reaching, really xD

(Disclaimer to all my posts: I do dps in dungeons - not in Savage because I don't need to, my dps actually do their job omg - I just don't like dpsing and think it's lazy design to make it so this dps-above-all-else meta has arisen. DPSing as a whm is boring, and yes it's more boring than standing there doing "nothing".)

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Originally Posted by Alysanne

Funny, in the conjurer quest line the little girl cries "I ONLY WANNA HEAL" and you have to explain to her that she's an idiot.

I guess that went right over some peoples heads.

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That was dealt with starting from page 7 going onto about 10.

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Originally Posted by SlyTribal

That was dealt with starting from page 7 going onto about 10.

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Actually it was mentioned starting on page 2~
Errr.. but yes, this was a thing already.

Every job has a set of skills that should be fully utilized to reach the end goal. As a healer, refusing to use a large part of your skill set is like a ninja or bard saying "I refuse to use goad/songs because they're not attacks and I'm a dps!" Monk gets mantra, casters have eye for an eye. None of these skills deal damage, but they were given to damage dealers. Likewise, if healers were intended to only heal they wouldn't have a collection of attack skills and decent damage output. In the case of white mage, three out of five of its new skills deal damage. That in itself is telling.

I don't condone being a jerk to anyone, and no one in the game can make you do anything. But you should be aware that standing still and refusing to do anything when no one needs healing is counter-productive.

I've never had a problem with this but I play on a JP server so maybe that is the difference. I will often dps when I can but there are plenty of DFs where I have dpsed very little, particularly in Expert runs, and that is because my primary role is keeping everyone alive and there are a lot of tanks and dps out there who are either lacking gear or skill and as such stance dancing creates the very real risk of people dying and me failing at my primary job of healer.

Personally though I've never been bothered with what healers do as long as no one dies. I certainly don't want to discourage players who enjoy healer game play from playing in DF environments because that's just asking for longer queue times as dps. Likewise I don't want to have situations where healers feel too pressured to dps, particularly when they are learning, and it leading to wipes. If your queuing for DF you shouldn't be expecting high levels of efficient play. Shaving a couple of minutes off a run isn't worth an extra 5 mins of queue time or adding a couple of minutes to the run due to a wipe.

Oh and if the Expert run has taken 40 mins then the dps has no right to be lecturing the healer on how he does his job.

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Originally Posted by Rynia

I wanna be a pure healer, but I can't, so I do my frankly pointless dps/get stressed out toeing the line between Holy and healing.

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If your DPS is 'frankly pointless', you're doing something wrong. In the right scenario, WHM is capable of being top DPS because of how strong our AoE game is.

You shouldn't have to stress between Holy and healing skills, either, if you have decent judgement and use your tools correctly. Between Asylum, Regen and Medica II, you have 21 seconds of hands-free 300 potency healing, and 200 after that if you keep Medica II and Regen up (which you should be, since they're cost efficient and exist to lower your stress level). Once you toggle Cleric Stance, you have about a spell and a half before you can turn it back off (1.5 Holies, Aero III and most of Aero II, Aero II, Aero I+Fluid Aura); you can click it off preemptively at about 2/3 through casting a spell. If your tank can't survive for five seconds during a normal pull WITH 200 or 300 worth of regen effect on him, you've got much bigger problems than DPSing and should ask whether his gear is broken or he'd like to try smaller pulls.

there is loads of these people sometimes i even wonder why they play the game!

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

If your a summoner or blackmage and see the tank dropping and the healer struggling, then sure, why not? I do it all the time, may not be the MOST effective, but a little heals will assist in keeping that tank up.

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What the hell? Psychic on blm/smn? Really? What are you even saying? Like just back off because you sound ridiculous right now.

I will start dpsing in pugs when the dps start doing it. Until then, im just going to do what I want.

Savage says, "hi".

I can understand a great deal of the arguments against dpsing in a party, honestly if you are so pressed with keeping everyone alive that you cannot do anything else then anyone who tries to mock your performance is being foolish.. however if you are finding yourself in a situation where nobody needs healing more than once or twice per 20 seconds and you are just standing there with the excuse that it is only your job to heal well..

https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...g=eyJpIjoidCJ9

That is the last i will say on the subject. Its simply a waste not to take advantage of your awesome ability to adapt to what is going on in front of you by using your attack spells when you can.

It isn't something that ever warrants mistreating party members as long as someone is doing their best but it is kind of sad that some people /won't/ challenge themselves out of fear of failing.

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Originally Posted by SoothingBell

What the hell? Psychic on blm/smn? Really? What are you even saying? Like just back off because you sound ridiculous right now.

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It was somewhat decent in ARR, but after the expansion it never really scaled up so it's currently rather unhelpful.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It was somewhat decent in ARR, but after the expansion it never really scaled up so it's currently rather unhelpful.

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I agree with that.

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Originally Posted by Andrea

Unless they change the game completely then if they disable cleric stance it will make healers a snooze fest.

You dont need to be healing all the time as it is, if I can't dps as a healer what am I meant to do during that time? watch Netflix or something?

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The issue was that WHM in FFXI struggled to complete quests due to lack of dps when solo. Cleric Stance helps to change this handicap.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Have to agree with quite a few of you. A healer standing there doing nothing, until hp bars drop till a heal is necessary is just plain laziness and a detriment to the party. They are about as useful as icemages and silent bards.

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Blah, blah, blah... Let's see you finish a dungeon without a healer present.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

It was somewhat decent in ARR, but after the expansion it never really scaled up so it's currently rather unhelpful.

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If by somewhat decent, you mean it was an OK heal at level 25, then sure. However, even then, you'd be unwise to use it.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Blah, blah, blah... Let's see you finish a dungeon without a healer present.

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And then this happened and i had to add lets see a healer do a dungeon their own level without a tank.

People in dungeons need one another in order to succeed, no one is better than anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Blah, blah, blah... Let's see you finish a dungeon without a healer present.

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Sure, I'd just bring another WAR in your place and tank swap on bosses. Would probably clear faster than with a healer that doesn't DPS anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

And then this happened and i had to add lets see a healer do a dungeon their own level without a tank.

People in dungeons need one another in order to succeed, no one is better than anyone else.

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Exactly... Tanks and dps need the healer to heal. Tanks and dps shouldn't need a healer to dps. It should be free will on the healer's expense; not forced to do it, not frowned upon for not doing it. Again, Alex Savage brought out the mentality that everyone NEED TO dps in ALL content now.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Sure, I'd just bring another WAR in your place and tank swap on bosses. Would probably clear faster than with a healer that doesn't DPS anyway.

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By all means, go for it. I'm not here to tell you NOT to do it that way, just like you shouldn't tell me to dps as WHM.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Sure, I'd just bring another WAR in your place and tank swap on bosses. Would probably clear faster than with a healer that doesn't DPS anyway.

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lmao please

40 minute SMA run
i210 DPS (SMN?)

wut

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

The issue was that WHM in FFXI struggled to complete quests due to lack of dps when solo. Cleric Stance helps to change this handicap.

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Im not saying that isn't the case, but if they removed cleric stance from instances I would need to start watching Netflix or something to get through them. I would just find it so boring to be unable to do any meaningful DPS in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Exactly... Tanks and dps need the healer to heal. Tanks and dps shouldn't need a healer to dps. It should be free will on the healer's expense; not forced to do it, not frowned upon for not doing it. Again, Alex Savage brought out the mentality that everyone NEED TO dps in ALL content now.

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People should be allowed to choose to do what they are comfortable with without fear of being mistreated, people should also be willing to give it their all and push themselves to achieve the highest ability level in whatever job they play. This has been a thing since long before new content came up.

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Originally Posted by Aryalandi

People should be allowed to choose to do what they are comfortable with, people should also be willing to give it their all and push themselves to achieve the highest ability level in whatever job they play. This has been a thing since long before new content came up.

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Agreed! I say this often, but still get the cold shoulder from the community. To keep tension down, I'm a NIN instead of WHM now.

If I want to DD, I'll go as DD. If I want to tank, I'll go as tank. If I want to heal, I'll go healer.

If I have time to, I might indulge in throwing some dots out. But I won't have anyone trying to force me to do it.

You no like, tough. That's your problem not mine. Pay my sub, then tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

Pay my sub, then tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing.

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Im not saying this on the topic of healer DPS just making a comment about this reply.

This is without a doubt one of the worst replies anyone can say to any subject. You may pay your sub but so do other people and by going into instances and saying "I pay my sub I can play how I like" is ignorant and rude. They also pay their subs.

Again this is not on the topic of Healer DPS this is just a general reply to how stupid that comment is.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

If I want to DD, I'll go as DD. If I want to tank, I'll go as tank. If I want to heal, I'll go healer.

If I have time to, I might indulge in throwing some dots out. But I won't have anyone trying to force me to do it.

You no like, tough. That's your problem not mine. Pay my sub, then tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing.

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Don't expect commendations if you don't want to help out with DPS then.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Don't expect commendations if you don't want to help out with DPS then.

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My commendation count is quite healthy, thanks for worrying though.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

Excuse me it is not being lazy. I took healer to heal not DPS. If I wanted to DPS I would play a DPS class. If I keep everyone alive then I am doing my job.

Do you also expect the DPS to throw heals too? If no then why do you expect healers to DPS?

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I expect DPS (such as myself) and Tanks to use their self heals when they screw up a mechanic and take unnecessary damage.

Killing the monster faster is keeping people alive. Dead things can't hurt you.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

Pay my sub, then tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing.

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I could argue by playing inefficiently you should be paying for the sub of the other people you're running with because you're wasting their time.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Don't expect commendations if you don't want to help out with DPS then.

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I get plenty of commendations without having to DPS.

Thank you for your concern though.

"I'm a healer! I'm a healer! I only heal!"

No you're not just a healer you're a White Mage. You're a Scholar. You're an Astrologian. All 3 of these classes offer much more than just healing. I personally judge the healer roles in mmos by how well they can do their secondary job as well as doing their primary job. The secondary job can differ from game to game, and in the case of FF14 our secondary role is dealing damage.

People are only looking at the roles and not looking at the class itself and what it has to offer. Also...."I'm not lazy, I'm just tired and don't feel like dpsing after a long day at work! I want to relax!" *coughstilllazycough*

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

I get plenty of commendations without having to DPS.

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And you'd get even more if you did :)