Only reskins and remodels whats allowed. Not proper APIs/script/Source Code editingQuote:
Originally Posted by DracotheDragon
Mods also affect performance, Consoles will bottle neck here, Due to the fact the game will run within limitations, but when you squeeze in mandatory mods Console users will be greatly affected
So are consoles holding back this game?
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08-15-2015, 01:03 PMDirth
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08-15-2015, 01:52 PMBishop81MS wants dedicated servers for their players and their players only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Assirra
I really don't see how that is going to work. Queue times for DF will get insane without the PC/PS4 player pool to even out the number of people online and queueing. -
08-15-2015, 01:59 PMSeoulstarHolding back the game or not. We're helping you PC players keep this game alive. So either deal with it or..yeah just deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirth
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08-15-2015, 02:27 PMAmiantosJust gonna say the console support for 11 is getting dropped and the player base is already smaller than 14 even with ps2, 360 and pc. PC is still getting support so that kinda makes your argument pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seoulstar
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08-15-2015, 03:34 PMBiohazard901
You can't compare a 13 year old game to a 2 year old game..
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08-15-2015, 05:13 PMStrejdaTomI never had a console but even if I wanted to buy one, this is one of the reasons why I wouldn't go for Xbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
Dedicated servers lol.. -
08-15-2015, 05:30 PMKosmos992kMs wants dedicated servers because MS wants to channel the revenue from that game through their books. Sony operates on the basis of what's yours is yours.MS is more like whats yours is mine too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
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08-15-2015, 05:48 PMStrejdaTomAlso XBone is a bit worse hardware-wise than PS4 (if I remember it right) and they might be afraid that PS4 players and Xbone players would share their performance opinions. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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08-15-2015, 05:49 PMKosmos992kyes, the GPU has only 2/3 of the compute units...Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
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08-15-2015, 06:13 PMBishop81Or to put it in a more unflattering way, the PS4 has 50% more compute units. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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08-15-2015, 06:21 PMKosmos992kLol, true, but I was not attempting to flatter on or the other, I did however, almost mention the laughable idea that the cloud with literally all the latency in the world, could supplement the meager GPU in the Xbox One. But I didn't want to shoot such an easy target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
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08-15-2015, 06:23 PMAmiantosHave to admit it's a pretty neat idea that will probably happen correctly in about 50 years lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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08-15-2015, 06:30 PMColorfulIf you've watched the Crackdown 3 preview video, you can see the cloud feature can be used to do incredible things that wouldn't be possible on either the PS4 or XONE due to their subpar specs, such as destruction physics. Will it be used for anything other than that? Maybe lighting and particle effects, but I doubt anything more. As it stands though, the XONE could handle FFXIV's visuals perfectly fine, if not for a little tuning down. CPUs matter most when it comes to MMOs, and the XONE's is slightly more powerful than the one on the PS4, although that's really not saying much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
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08-15-2015, 06:36 PMAmiantosQuestion is how will a game that relies on the cloud so much hold up in areas where internet is still really poor. Have they talked about that part yet as I'm genuinely curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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08-15-2015, 06:40 PMColorfulIt likely won't work, but getting a Xbox One over a PS4 if your internet is poor is a rather crazy idea. Most of its useful features lies in streaming content such as Netflix, YouTube, TV, etc. It's marketed as a media device that can game. But if we're talking its potential use with FFXIV it's safe to assume the person playing has good enough internet to connect to XBL, and that would be enough. I don't know how it'll go for latency though, I can see it being a bit odd for a tower to explode 0.3-1.0 seconds after it gets hit with an explosive in the case of Crackdown 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiantos
We'll have to see when they release new info, it might even tide me into buying it (I loved both Crackdown 1 and 2)! -
08-15-2015, 06:52 PMBishop81You actually believe MS's bull?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
https://youtu.be/HO5imsViKp0?t=3m
(Yes, the guy said all that rubbish with a straight face.)
https://youtu.be/xcXdWRJ-xb4?t=2m21s
(Turned out Mr Nelson was not on the development team either.) -
08-15-2015, 06:53 PMMindylouI would rather have more customization then another story quest....ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yutsimaki
Guess it depends on every customer huh.
The more customization we have, glamour options, and possible housing enjoyment = longer sub for me..
No added feature/ detail can EVER hurt a game, the more they offer in ALL departments the better, ffxiv is vastly behind the times in housing and customization of characters and also UI customization...if they want to be as successful as possible,they have to upgrade and enter 2015 standards
(add things that old games have had for 10+ yrs already) -
08-16-2015, 04:48 AMDracotheDragonsigh,Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
games on PS4 with the custom DX 11 via the openGL on PS4
Dark souls 2 (uses the DX11.1 open GL)
bloodborne( Uses the openGL Dx11.1)
GTAV (was removed a few patches after launch but reinstated after some tweaks )
planetside 2 (the beta used the OpenGL DX11.1 compatibility)
Final fantasy XV episode duscae
Metal gear solid TPP (the demo had the same features on the PS4 as the DX11 PC version on gamescom some key visual differences like Render allowance and lighting distance were much higher on PC.)
and P.T (the fox engine is capable of using the PS4's Custom OpenGL which is comparable with DX11.1 on ps4)
proper DX11 and openGL's DX 11.1 are not entirely the same BUT, both can have the same features as the other (all be it slightly toned down), and the new Opengl's custom DX11.1 is highly comparable to the microsoft's DX11
as for the mod part, you may be right with that but the modding community will find ways around those blockades if they wanted to, so if they allowed modding on PC and ps4 it would take some time before both versions of the game
also "how meny times must i say this" you have said it once, so a few more times before that line :P also the Xbox one in your argument uses the Internet far more then the PS4, unless you fully turn them both off, the ps4 uses the internet to download and instal patch data while it is on standby, or if you buy something and wish to have it downloaded while your away it will remotely turn on and download, the xbox one however (this may of been implemented in a patch after i sold mine) does not, it stays online and uses the internet to update advertisement on the main dashboard and sometimes prompt me for a key update, but no patch data will be downloaded, if you are fully OFF the internet the PS4 would be better not because of its higher Cpu or that (with both being similar) but mainly for the wider selection of games, if the internet isn't added to this then you would go for the one with the bigger library of entertainment.
oh and to awnser yu on another thread, bloodbornes' loading times was mostly due to the fact the 'blood' engine (which was used in creating Bloodborne yes i know it is a form of the havoc engine but it was referred to as 'blood' for the overall engine) which is a modded version of the 'Soul' (which i think was partly made using the pyre engine as a base)) engine, had some issues during development and to correct that they increased the loading times so the engine could figure out where monsters would go and place them in the right spots, this was heavily fixed post launch, since they have had time to tweak the Blood engine, and Dark souls 3 is rumoured to use the tweaked Blood engine called the ember engine.
and by the by, i had an xbox one the only reason i sold it was mostly because it was erroring, i had a replacement but not meny games on it and i didn't want for it to just sit there so i sold it to someone who wanted one, i did enjoy the xbox one, but again it just sat there.
but bleh this is slightly off topic, so allow me to say something on topic.
since this game is designed for PS3 and pc's with similar specs to the PS3, (i.e very low and cheep computers) then this game would need to drop the ps3 support and raise the bar on PC support to more modern computers if they truly wish to add in a lot more UI content, as for the ps4. for now the ps4 hasn't been fully tapped in and realised the arguments of its space being small or weaker is in comparisons to the PS3 when it launched before suddenly every game was playable on the PS4, granted it has been 2 years but it will take some time before the PS4 is fully used in terms of space and engines, if this game wants fully open world maps like 1.0 then the lower spec consoles and pc's would have to be dropped, but if they wanted to utilise more UI modding capabilities and even some extra content for a more open world they would need to make the minimum bar rise,
as for those saying for a dangerous boss being a thing the consoles are holding back, that is incorrect the 'danger' of the open world and eat, isn't because of 'casuals' or 'consoles'. that is a design choice, and even if this game was made SOLEY for high spec PC's they would still be the same. -
08-16-2015, 06:41 AMBishop81OK, either my brain is bombed or that was incomprehensible.Quote:
Originally Posted by DracotheDragon
Also DX and OpenGL, neither are in use on the PS4. It uses it's own GNM API. -
08-16-2015, 07:19 AMmyahele
Since they plan on making the game available to nintendo ps3 limitation will be the least of our worries
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08-16-2015, 07:26 AMMilesSaintboroguh
They never confirmed that did they?
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08-16-2015, 07:51 AMColorfulSomething's wrong with me and accidentally deleting my posts, let me make this short... .-.Quote:
Originally Posted by DracotheDragon
Direct3D and OpenGL are not the same product and are actually competitors for now, there is no OpenGL DX11.1, that's just not how it works. PS4 uses its own API as stated by Bishop, GNM and PSSL. Modders can't bypass a locked system with a forced approval on mods unless you were to jailbreak your device, but even then I'm not quite sure what that opens up (not to mention it's likely not a simple process, and not many people will do it). As for the consoles getting better overtime, that's not going to happen either. The PS4 and XONE uses the same architecture as a modern PC, one which developers are incredibly familiar with, there is no learning process like there was with the PS3's Cell architecture. These consoles were outdated on release due to the outcry there'd be if they cost anymore than $500 and they've already hit their limit with quite a lot of games. For example, PS4 can barely manage 30 FPS on Episode Duscae while the XONE dips into sub 20 FPS quite often. Expect the next generation of consoles sooner rather than later, unless Sony and Microsoft decide to milk them for all they're worth, then they'll release the "next gen" is 2-3 years time.
Also I'm pretty sure Yoshida said that the PS3 was holding back large scale FATEs/world bosses, although I cannot be bothered finding the article in which he said. Feel free to do so if you wish, I know it was a recent one if that helps. =P
The NX is likely to be more powerful than the PS4.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
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08-16-2015, 09:26 AMDracotheDragonok fair enough, i'll admit when i am beat ^w^Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
as for the idea of sony and microsoft milking the consoles they will, the ps3 lasted 6 years and xbox nearly 9 years, and microsoft had made 2 different 'xbox one' xbox 360 models to milk more money from people,
as for the live letter i have herd on server limitation as well as console limitation but i'll take your word on it :3
as for the NX being more powerful then the PS4, it is nintendo they don't play the bigger guns, so it wouldn't surprise me if it is stronger then the wii-u but weaker then the ps4 and xbox 360, but i am curious what nintendo will do -
08-16-2015, 09:37 AMKosmos992kPS3 is still on sale and bein manufactured, it still hase game releases, Sony doesn't drop consoles like hot bricks when the next one comes out. Handheld systems though...SCEA has a pathalogical hatred of.Quote:
Originally Posted by DracotheDragon
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08-16-2015, 09:51 AMKosmos992kDon't believe everything you read online, especially when it is from Microsoft. Internet bandwidth is at *best* 1% of what the GPU in XboxOne uses, latency is measured in milliseconds on the Internet, nanoseconds for the GPU. That doesn't even begin to account for regular consumer internet, protocol and routing overhead, nor the time taken to shunt things through the CPU and network stack sending to the cloud and getting it back. Hell the net can barely handle full HD streaming even with the best video compression around. Cloud based supplement of the GPU in a system cannot be used for any non-trivial work, and at best could handle pre-rendering of assets thatcould otherwise be stored on the system. It's nonsense to try to claim otherwise, but as usual marketing overcomes reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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08-16-2015, 10:50 AMKotemonGood answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco
A similar thing happened back when FFXI came out for the PS2, originally 2002 in japan, 2003 for the pc. The Ps3 was reviled in 2005 and sold 2006. The thing is the PS3 was initially backwards compatible with the Ps2, but then they had to reduce the system cost and that went with it. Rather than try to make a port for the Ps3 they made a Xbox 360 port instead. However when compared to the PC and 360 version they were all held back by the hardware on the PS2. Even by 2008 folks were asking why they were anchoring the game to an outdated console and not doing any real significant engine upgrades. They only discontinued PS2 support when Seekers of Adoulin came out, in 2013, but only for bricks outside of Japan.
2010, FFXIV (oddly enough) was designed for the PC first and then was intended to be ported to the PS3 some months later. But we all know what happened to that and then the PS4 came out in 2013. At least when they were trying to fix FFXIV they had the forethought to go as far on the Ps3 hardware as possible by scaleing down the PC settings and develop a port for the PS4 as well as a means to migrate character data from the Ps3 to Ps4. Something the folks behind FFXI never thought of or was able to do.
It would be foolish to coddle the weakest link again with FFXIV as they did for so long in FFXI. Most of what helped killed off FFXI was the over dependence of the PS2, among many other things. At best, if they look at the sale numbers they can determine whether 4.0 or 5.0 will have support for the PS3. Assuming there's still a reasonable player base. They may try to crank up the graphics, boost the engine, and enhance player models across the existing platforms after stopping future support for the PS3 (PSP Vita, not to sure).
Are the consoles holding the game back, yes they are to some extent. That's why many of these types of games are made on the PC, and then ported to the consoles. For me, I see it as fear based on what Square was doing in FFXI's dependence on the PS2. Cant blame anyone for thinking that especially for those who played and compared the PS3 version to the rest. The current developer team should be given some credit (the Ps3->Ps4 migration) and Yoshi-P likely knows this as well. Square Enix corporate however is a different story, that will need numbers and good reasoning to justify cutting one source of income to "potentially" expand it elsewhere. -
08-16-2015, 11:47 AMZeonx
The same should of been done for final fantasy XI with the PS2, they should of taken steps to make sure playstation tools were not needed for FFXI then converted it for the PC.
Here they need to get RID of PS3 before that becomes a issue, People do own the playstation 3 copy but most likely they have a PC or PS4 also and if they don't in this day and time they need to hop on it.
Long time ago I really wished they dropped playstation 2 support for FFXI so that the graphics and everything could of been enhanced, this should of happened when PS2 was having the black screen issues. -
08-16-2015, 12:11 PMGilraenYou do know that the PC version was the port with XI, right? Not the other way around, though it is the case with the 360 version. XI's original Beta was on the PS2, only in Japan of course. The Black Screen issues all stemmed from the PS2 HDD's capacity and not the console's hardware, they were trying to just cram 13 years of game updates into a hard drive whose use wasn't really planned that far in advance. Square had to streamline, compress and reorganize the game data to get it all to fit without issue... though I can attest that there were still issues, like NPCs not working (the outpost warp NPC in San d'Oria being one of them). They fixed alot of these issues before I quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeonx
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08-16-2015, 12:15 PMsilentwindfr
with the add of the mac version (when it will be good enough), the potential NX, ps4 version and pc version i think they can drop the ps3 without fear a huge loose of the playerbase, they did offer a free transfert from ps3 to ps4, for the one that didn't want to play on computer it's them fault for not have get the chance to swicth of version, ask them to work more and more on the game simply for make it run on a hardware old of more of 10 years is selfish at best, since it will impact the game more and more on what they can or not create.
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08-16-2015, 12:35 PMLaraul
Is the web browser on your phone holding back the web browser on your computer? No, they are two different builds.
Is the PS3 holding back the other versions? No, because they are two different builds. The PS3 version only needs 14GB free to install the game plus the expansion and any upcoming content. The PS4 version needs 40GB. And the PC version currently uses 20GB. The PS3 version uses lower resolution textures, simpler models and animations. The PS4 version looks identical to the PC's DX9 client running at maximum settings, but currently lacks the visual enhancements provided by the DX11 version.
Obviously if the console versions we're holding back the PC version, then the PC version should lack the improvements w/ the DX11 client. If you think features should be included with the PC version (i.e. User Interface Addons) there's no reason why support can't be added, even if the PS3/PS4 versions end up lacking support for such a feature. -
08-16-2015, 12:37 PMColorfulPut some more thought into this, the PS3 is clearly holding the game back. What if they wanted to add larger areas, or a city without loading screens? PS3 can't take that. Huge open world bosses? Same can be said. A TP bar with numbers? Again, PS3 doesn't have enough RAM and they don't want to exclude them from participating in such content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
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08-16-2015, 12:53 PMLaraulYou mean like the new Heavensward areas? They are enormous. And we have huge open world bosses w/ rank S hunts. And if they want to add larger areas, they could... larger areas take longer to transverse though, which means more time wasted on trying to get to where you want to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
The PS3 version lacks the inventory grid and gil display, both of which are present on the PC and PS4 versions. When the focus target window is visible, the clock and exp bar are hidden on the PS3. The 3.1 patch isn't out yet, so we don't know how the TP bars will work exactly. But if the PS3 version is unable to display numbers, theres no reason why the developers could not allow show both the bar and numbers on the PC and PS4 version. People wanna blame everything they find wrong w/ the game on the PS3. It's an easy scapegoat since it's seen as the weakest link. -
08-16-2015, 01:04 PMZoralinkThe larger areas with nothing in them but copy pasted enemies, the instanced world, the world bosses that require us to cull the number of players down to an abysmal number, the inventory that is naturally split apart in the first place, the limited number of windows we can display at a time, etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
The lack of a clock and exp bar will not have a tangible effect on a boss fight (Where you would use focus target in the first place) whereas a number shown for TP will.
There's any numbers of ways it's clear designing for PS3 is holding the game back, the concessions SE makes constantly make it clear they have to hold certain things back for the sake of (pretending) there's parity between PC and PS3. -
08-16-2015, 01:07 PMColorfulI'm referring to more traditional open world bosses, possibly the size of Bismarck in the open world. But the exact reason they gave for not having a TP bar was PS3 limitations, and the work around was not displaying the actual numbers but just a bar for 3.1. As for why it doesn't only display a bar on the PS3 and have both numbers and a bar on the PS4/PC? I've got no clue, probably boils down to a possible disadvantage between the playerbase. I'm referring to city areas, not open areas. But as you might have no noticed, the render distance on little specific details is abysmally low for FFXIV, even mobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laraul
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't S rank hunts usually have the PS3 dropping into the single digits (FPS)? -
08-16-2015, 01:08 PMZeonxYes, what I meant was they cannot continue the game without playstation 2's playstation tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
which is why I said they needed to port the tools to PC instead of using playstation tools as it was the foundation of FFXI.
they said there would be small patches but no big major ones after the final expansion.
Which is why I said if they had done this from the start they could have continued the game. -
08-16-2015, 01:25 PMGilraenActually, XI's problem has nothing to do with it's graphics (which they have stated repeatedly that they'd NOT overhaul, people have been crying for it for years which is why people expected XIV to be XI-2... which it isn't). XI is one of the last vestiges of the old guard MMOs; the slow, methodical and grind-heavy MMOs designed back before people finally figured out the better MMO formulas. A person having 'grown up' on games with XIV's pace would be driven mad with boredom at XI's. The only way Square could have kept XI relevant would have been to pull a Sony and 'reinvent' the game. We all know how well that worked out (coughGalaxiescough). Dropping PS2 support would have only alienated the customer base they built with the PS2 version, especially given their home market at the time generally didn't have good PCs given their cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeonx
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08-16-2015, 01:44 PMNominous
People get so worried about this, but do they ever stop to think what the game could even accomplish if those 'limitations' weren't there? There's many PC-only MMO's, and none of them, despite the lack of limitations, go out of their way to innovate or take advantage of it. XIV has much more freedom than XI did in this sense, but it didn't make leaps and bounds ahead to take advantage of that situation.
Even if consoles did hold the game back, it wouldn't be from anything that'd make the game that much better anyway. Plus, it's not like they plan to back down on it. Xbox One might join in, and the Nintendo NX is up for consideration as well. -
08-16-2015, 02:04 PMTint
didn't you need to buy the hard drive for the PS2 to play XI? wich you can only use in the PS2 FAT? the PS2 slim doesn't have a slot for the hard drive... so why supporting a plattform even longer when almost nobody can use it anymore? you can't buy a PS2 FAT and it's hard drive for years :x the PS2 slim was released in 2004. thats 10 years ago >.>
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08-16-2015, 02:31 PMGilraenWhile the potential of an NX port is high, the only why the XBone will happen is if Microsoft lets go of their requirements of segregated servers and Live Gold membership. Two things that Yoshida has starkly refused to submit to, and for good reason. Live Gold membership would be forcing players to pay two subscriptions to play XIV. Yoshida was pissed at payment services charging conversion fees for subscriptions, hence their return to handling subscriptions themselves, what makes you think he'd tolerate Live Gold? And segregated servers because a Sony console is part of the game is just stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominous
Actually, retail boxes of XI for the PS2 came with the HDD with XI preinstalled. And Sony supported the fat PS2 well into the various slim releases up until end of production a couple years ago. You could get a malfunctioning PS2 repaired for $45 if you didn't mind shipping it to them on your dime. Sony offers the same service for the PS3, though the cost is a little higher ($125 last time I partook). Totally worth it for an original run PS3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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02-18-2016, 11:39 PMWubstahWulf
PS4 doesnt even Support DX11
that intire Operating system of Xbox consoles is based around DirectX hense the X in the name its a microsoft software
if Microsoft ever would let FF XIV to be on there console it would have had DX11 no doubts
but having DX11 on ps4 is just to far fetched