[REQUEST] Can we have a more original race next time?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

If people who chose not to buy this game because of the current races, how is Au Ra going to win them over (what we already know is that the current playerbase who love FFXIV will be getting HW. So that's already probably over a million copies being bought. Possibly more if gifts or PC+PS4 purchases are taken into consideration)? I'll concede that males can have a unique looking face, but the rest of them feels very Elezen (I've honestly not tried to make a male Au Ra yet. Maybe I'll try and make one look like an Elezen). Female Au Ra can easily be made to look like something already in game. Their faces can be made to look similar to Hyur's and their bodies are pretty much a female Miqo'te's (which was Yugiri's placeholder in 2.2).

http://i.imgur.com/djXFal4.jpg
They're both 5'6, in case you're curious.

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I actually like their look because they look simialr to miqo'tes. I could play one since I like the races that have a tail. If I want to look more like a dragon/lizard this would be the race for me.

Honestly, I don't know why they just don't give Miqo'tes all the animal ears/tail options so we won't have to have another race with cosplay accessories.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

we have lots of beast tribes , but dont think beastmen are able to be "warriors of the light" :(

goblins , ixali , kobold , Amalj'aa , qiqirn, sylphs.....

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Did you play the Black Mage job quest storyline? When I did, my "sub-human low races" attitude towards the beastmen changed drastically. They may not exactly be "Warriors of Light" but they are still heroes in my book.

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Originally Posted by aerialrave

Did you play the Black Mage job quest storyline? When I did, my "sub-human low races" attitude towards the beastmen changed drastically. They may not exactly be "Warriors of Light" but they are still heroes in my book.

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I'm doing it now and it really makes me appreciate the beastmen in a new way. Also, if they made Ixali playable or gave us an appearance buff, I would use it in a heartbeat. I even have an idea for a name :D. They might not be the usual barbie pretty race but their lore is really cool.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Ew, no thanks I'm looking forward to my Au Ra and I would not touch ANYTHING covered from head to foot in scales that just plain look ugly and blegh.

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Personal opinion.

I don't find head to toe scales ugly.

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Originally Posted by Wolfyboy

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/umadori07...f/cfe35148.jpg

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I wish wish wish Au Ra had looked like this instead! It's sad that it wont happen now...but I totally would have race changed if this had been the case.

Other arguments aside, the thing here isn't so much if Western gamers find the idea of scaly people ugly. It's if Japanese gamers find scaly people ugly. We don't know what feedback they got from the production art at that Tokyo F.A.T.E. but it might be safe to say that it wasn't 100% positive given what we got. And lest we forget, Square's primary audience is Japanese gamers.

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Originally Posted by Spy

I wish wish wish Au Ra had looked like this instead! It's sad that it wont happen now...but I totally would have race changed if this had been the case.

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Can't fap to that/not kawaii = no chance with this fanbase

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Originally Posted by Spy

I wish wish wish Au Ra had looked like this instead! It's sad that it wont happen now...but I totally would have race changed if this had been the case.

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Hell, I'd be fine if you smacked a human head onto that things body, now that's something I wouldn't mind at all.

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Originally Posted by aerialrave

Did you play the Black Mage job quest storyline? When I did, my "sub-human low races" attitude towards the beastmen changed drastically. They may not exactly be "Warriors of Light" but they are still heroes in my book.

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They also make it a point that those beastmen are the exception to the rule about their beast tribes, just as the beast tribes you can quest with are the exception (except the sylphs of course) in that every single one of them begins with "Everyone else of our race is EEEEEEVIL and zealous towards a giant water snake/bird lady/fire dude/fat guy in a thong, but we're totally not! Nope! We r teh speshul!"
And yeah, I really liked some of those quests. Untempered Beastmen are good people, but they just can't be Warriors of Light in this iteration of the game.
Though again, a series of "perspective flip" quests where we take control of some would be a REALLY neat idea. Kind of a new moogle mail-type quest where you can collect new Companions by playing out their stories and decisions.
But to say that would be a long way off would be a gross understatement.

Meanwhile, Lol-afells are lol-ing at us all. They're the most inhuman of us all! It's official!

Just look at those little chipmunk faces, those cute noses, and RIDICULOUSLY CUTE(!!!!) ears. Why'd I phial to Roegadyn again? Shite, better go back.

Because of all the beastmen stuff, I was hoping to see us getting to roll characters from the beastmen tribes.
Or those weird lizard guys from the Ivalice universe.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

1) A non(human)-biped race can not be done - This requires more than just making unique gear, it requires having entirely new animation and physics programming.
2) More "beast" like races have legs, arms and feet that are not "human biped" compatible. Many animals are digitigrade, which means they would have a different gait, thus requiring entirely new animation sets.

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Well, to be fair, every new race gets entirely new animation. None of them, no matter how similar otherwise, move the same way another race does. (We know lalas have knees because they can sit, but you sure wouldn't guess it from the way they walk.) Having differently proportioned legs might actually make it easier to come up with those new animation sets, since it helps deal with the question of how to make their movements look natural without looking just like someone else's.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

3) A "more furry/scaley" race can not be done without an entirely new gear system.
a. Scales on an animal in real life are a form of armor. Fur on an animal in real life is a form of camouflage and insulation. Neither of these apply to "playable characters" that can wear clothes and armor.

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scales / armour:
It's true that scales provide some protection, more than bare skin does at any rate. Perhaps a scaled race should get an extra few points of Vitality in their racial stats to reflect that fact. But scales aren't like a solid shell. They don't provide anywhere near the protection of even leather armour, let alone metal armour. If an intelligent humanoid race with scales were taking part in the sort of battles our characters do, with the sort of weapons we do, they'd still want the protection of armour.

fur / clothes:
Both fur and clothes can provide insulation and camouflage. But it's been a long time since those were the primary use for clothes (if indeed they ever were). Clothes have long since become both a cultural requirement and stylistic display. People will wear clothes even in climates where they're completely inappropriate as insulation, because even there, they're still appropriate culturally and stylistically. On the other hand, in climates where the insulation value of clothes is necessary, having fur wouldn't automatically remove that necessity. Just because most people have hair on the top of their heads doesn't change the fact that putting a hat on in cold weather will keep you warmer. A furry race would similarly stay warmer if they wore clothes over their fur. Whether it's for a second layer of insulation in cold weather or for stylistic / cultural reasons in warm weather, clothes over fur isn't any stranger than a hat over hair.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The existing gear system can make exceptions for ears and horns because the ears and horns placement doesn't change between races or faces (they're on/off switches) and "are removed" when wearing certain hats/helmets. That's why you don't get to customize these features. This is why games "race differences" tend to be limited to just one gear part that has less frequent variation (eg hats, helmets, masks and crowns.) That way they can use the "human" base and make the same alterations for every gear. Every variation of horns or ears requires a different placement, hence a new model.

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If SE were bothered by that, they could have given all Auri the same kind of horns (which would actually make more sense from a biological standpoint as well). Instead they decided to offer a variety of different kinds of horns that players can choose from, and yes, in many cases that means they're going to make several different models of the same hat or hood just to support Auri alone, and that's in addition to the ones for other races. If they can make several different completely new models for Auri, then I'm sure they could manage to make another completely new model for whatever the next race is.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

b. The tails on animals are a form of body language.

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Somewhat off-topic, but I wish they'd improve the body language of Miqo'te ears and tails. The ears don't move in any of the emotes players can instigate, even though we know SE worked out the physics of how to show the ears moving between different positions. (We know because a Miqo'te's ears will flip back and forth during the brief victory fanfare scene after boss fights.) And the few emotes that involve the tail don't match a cat's body language. (A happy emote will have the tail lash back and forth in a way a cat will only do when it's angry, and an angry emote will puff up the tail like a cat that's scared.) I get the impression that whoever designed the emotes has never owned a cat, nor got any suggestions from coworkers who have. (The happy emote's tail wagging could have come from imitating a dog, but I don't know where the scared tail on an angry emote came from.)

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Originally Posted by Nestama

If people who chose not to buy this game because of the current races, how is Au Ra going to win them over (what we already know is that the current playerbase who love FFXIV will be getting HW. So that's already probably over a million copies being bought. Possibly more if gifts or PC+PS4 purchases are taken into consideration)? I'll concede that males can have a unique looking face, but the rest of them feels very Elezen (I've honestly not tried to make a male Au Ra yet. Maybe I'll try and make one look like an Elezen). Female Au Ra can easily be mad Their faces can be made to look similar to Hyur's and their bodies are pretty much a female Miqo'te's (which was Yugiri's placeholder in 2.2).

http://i.imgur.com/djXFal4.jpg
They're both 5'6, in case you're curious.

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I understand this is meant to detract from the Au Ra as it is viewed as to similar to some current races, but from this post i can not help but notice the differences in their body structure. Nice to see some curves on a female, though i still like the Highlander females more but to each their own.e to look like something already in game.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

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Maybe I'm just not seeing it or something, but can you point out how they look that different outside the scales and a hip pop to the left?
Like.. It's the same shoulders, same torso, same waist, same harms and legs... Maybe a little thicker hips, but I think that might just be the pose.

Actually the best race who could be implemented in the future, I hope.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...13101294_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Maybe I'm just not seeing it or something, but can you point out how they look that different outside the scales and a hip pop to the left?Like.. It's the same shoulders, same torso, same waist, same harms and legs... Maybe a little thicker hips, but I think that might just be the pose.

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A change in pose is not possible with an exact duplicate of a wireframe, were one to try you would see all sorts of deformities, and mistakes in the animation of any given character. For example a Highlander female though a hyur could not have a Midlanders animation/ pose set because issues would not correctly sync with the wire mesh of the two different character models, though the changes appear to be minimal any one who has attempted even cursory sculpting and animation using 3d rendering knows a small change can set back a models over all quality significantly. It is these factors coupled with added aspect of rendering armor/ clothing to these models after the fact that one begins to see the Monumental work load needed to bring them in to the game proper. This is not even beginning the to consider the work needed for collision detection, hit box alignment, battle aspects of character design needed in an mmo. Really looking at what the team has done with the over all expansion, i have to say were i any of them reading some of these comments i would feel slapped in the face, one can only see your hard work trivialized so many times, but that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Like a thirtieth post about how bad races that might be unpopular would be

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For someone who showed such flagrant disrespect to the interests of others and to the work of other developers (if they happened to not agree with your point, those EQ Next guys seem to be alright by you), talking about slaps in the face seems a little hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by ThanMazus

For someone who showed such flagrant disrespect to the interests of others and to the work of other developers (if they happened to not agree with your point, those EQ Next guys seem to be alright by you), talking about slaps in the face seems a little hypocritical.

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I ask how have i been disrespectful in any way, shape or form? I do not agree with those that want more drastically changed races only showed what i believe to be the reason why it is possibly not feasible. Should you wish to entice some sort of name calling juvenile attack session, i'm sorry you'll not get that from me. In my my post i simply addressed the technical aspects of this issue. The final statement was only my opinion, those everyone are entitled to.

If the developers were unable to handle harsh criticism, then they may as well have never made FFXIV:ARR at all.

You can talk wire meshes all you want, there's at least a bit of noticeable difference with this, I feel anyways.
http://i.imgur.com/GX7HNWg.png
Than this
http://i.imgur.com/djXFal4.jpg
Note that the guys, Auri men look similar in the middle part of their abdomen and pecs, calves look similar. The figure however is very different, men presenting wider hips, broader shoulders, and thicker forearms.

The Auri women look like they might have thicker hips, but it could also be due to the pose.

It's a slap in the face the race we're given in the expansion looks so darn similar to something we've already got. SE did such a wonderful job with the Roegadyn and Highlander girls in 2.0 but this isn't something I'd really be pleased with. I know it sells well, but so do Miqo'te already, so they're diversifying their advertising.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

I ask how have i been disrespectful in any way, shape or form? I do not agree with those that want more drastically changed races only showed what i believe to be the reason why it is possibly not feasible.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

With so many "wanting" new bestial/ alien/ original race options i say give it to them. Make something that satisfies the the cries for something new and exciting... and watch how little it's chosen, how much time is wasted in it's design, and how few actually wanted it in the first place. If people wanted such diversity in their mmo's then they wouldn't have left those games oh so oft mentioned with those super unique and original character designs. Out of curiosity how are Acheage, GW2, Terra, Wildstar, and WoW doing?

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Yes I can see how this wouldn't be disrespectful either to the developers of these games nor the "super unique and original character designs" nor the people who enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

You can talk wire meshes all you want, there's at least a bit of noticeable difference with this, I feel anyways.
http://i.imgur.com/GX7HNWg.png
Than this
http://i.imgur.com/djXFal4.jpg
Note that the guys, Auri men look similar in the middle part of their abdomen and pecs, calves look similar. The figure however is very different, men presenting wider hips, broader shoulders, and thicker forearms.The Auri women look like they might have thicker hips, but it could also be due to the pose.

It's a slap in the face the race we're given in the expansion looks so darn similar to something we've already got. SE did such a wonderful job with the Roegadyn and Highlander girls in 2.0 but this isn't something I'd really be pleased with. I know it sells well, but so do Miqo'te already, so they're diversifying their advertising.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Now this makes so much more sense the Au Ra would have benefited from this so very much, Particularly due to the Raen and the Xaela being so different in temperament as cited in their lore. A new race that incorporates a physical change from one clan to the other based on physical proportions, with the additions of a few small things ( claws, eye shape, ear style, ect ). Imagine what the Miqo'te race would have looked like if one of the tribes looked like Ronso instead of sun kitty, moon kitty.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Your emphasize i will not fault you in, I truly feel an opportunity was missed with the Au Ra females, if the Xaela, followers of the Dusk Mother had their gender heights reversed (females larger more feral in appearance than their male counter parts) I feel it would have struck an amazing balance between the two tribes.

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To an extent i have agreed with this very sentiment. SE missed an opportunity withe Au Ra sexual dimorphism in regard to have the mirrored option for the Xaela. Though i do understand many can't be bothered to search an entire thread for one persons quotes.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

To an extent i have agreed with this very sentiment. SE missed an opportunity withe Au Ra sexual dimorphism in regard to have the mirrored option for the Xaela. Though i do understand many can't be bothered to search an intire thread for one persons quotes.

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Honestly, I feel like that would have made things so much better. SE did a nice job, but I know they could've done so much more, it's a little disappointing to see the race turn out like it.

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Originally Posted by ThanMazus

Yes I can see how this wouldn't be disrespectful either to the developers of these games nor the "super unique and original character designs" nor the people who enjoy them.

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That was my opinion and a simple question. I played many of those games and found them lacking, the majority of the time i played many of them was in waiting for FFXIV ARR. I feel this game with it's presentation of it's unique setting is superior to them, and is the reason i pay to play this game monthly and not play their many (not all) free to play offering.

As one who played them and enjoyed a few of their aspects, you do not have to be offended on my behalf.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Honestly, I feel like that would have made things so much better. SE did a nice job, but I know they could've done so much more, it's a little disappointing to see the race turn out like it.

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From many post on the forums and somethings seen in social media it seems as if though Xaela will be the predominate tribe of Au Ra we will see come 3.0. Had the option of tribe diversity been given to the Au Ra ( again citing the two hyur tribes due to their obvious deference's in appearance) where as Raen would have taller males/ shorter females and the Xaela had shorter males/taller females, I wonder what if any change to this might be seen. if any could mock up how that would look it would be epicly cool, and much appreciated.

http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...5-22_29_38.jpg

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Originally Posted by Alacran

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It's always a heartbreaker to hear that they were originally planning on making the girl Au Ra more buff and stocky but decided not to, why they didn't seperate the two clans for diversity, I can only chalk up to time restraints, laziness, or maybe just faulty reasoning.

I suppose that looks more mature, but I wish the body had less sex appeal to it. Like, I really wish the warrior race would look less succubus more like they'd cleave the enemy in half with a massive axe, but everyone knows that won't happen. I'm considering attempting to draw what I'm talking about, but I wouldn't even be sure where to put it.

all non lalas are overgrown mutated lalas :D

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Originally Posted by nbiscuitz

all non lalas are overgrown mutated lalas :D

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Well you know, Allagans like to make experiments.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

From many post on the forums and somethings seen in social media it seems as if though Xaela will be the predominate tribe of Au Ra we will see come 3.0. Had the option of tribe diversity been given to the Au Ra ( again citing the two hyur tribes due to their obvious deference's in appearance) where as Raen would have taller males/ shorter females and the Xaela had shorter males/taller females, I wonder what if any change to this might be seen. if any could mock up how that would look it would be epicly cool, and much appreciated.

http://cdn4.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...5-22_29_38.jpg

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To bad they didn't keep this design for female Au ra this design looked quite nice. I'm still most likely changing to Au ra but I wouldn't have minded if they were more like in this art work.

Au Ra have Asian faces. My girlfriend, who is Vietnamese, agreed with me. She said that the Hyur look more like American/European. Even the faces for male Auri look Asian, too.

new snake race
play as an actual snake
non of those troublesome overdone human appendages
just play an actual goddamned snake

They... are... supposed... to... be... HUMANS.

ALL OF THEM.

ALL OF THE RACES.

ALL HUMANS!!

They're not bestial, they're human.

The game even references it at one point, but I can't even remember when...

But sorry, we're not going to be getting anything much more than humans because of the way they have to build/skin the armor for a specific body type.

AND IT'S ALL GOING TO BE HUMAN BODIES.

If you want to play something like a minotaur or whatever, go back to Warcraft.

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Originally Posted by nbiscuitz

all non lalas are overgrown mutated lalas :D

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You can keep that little theory inside of that vegetable head, Potato.

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

They... are... supposed... to... be... HUMANS.

ALL OF THEM.

ALL OF THE RACES.

ALL HUMANS!!

They're not bestial, they're human.

The game even references it at one point, but I can't even remember when...

But sorry, we're not going to be getting anything much more than humans because of the way they have to build/skin the armor for a specific body type.
AND IT'S ALL GOING TO BE HUMAN BODIES.

If you want to play something like a minotaur or whatever, go back to Warcraft.

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Except they already have concept art for a more Demi human Aura and specifically said they went with the current design due to the fanbase probably not liking the older concepts. It's also already been stated but a good portion are fine with the humanoid body, just not completely the same as the other races with minor additions. If you do that go all the way but we already know this fanbase will find people with full scales/claws as ugly so that probably won't ever happen.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

Au Ra have Asian faces. My girlfriend, who is Vietnamese, agreed with me. She said that the Hyur look more like American/European. Even the faces for male Auri look Asian, too.

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Well, there are a lot of Au Ra in Othard. And grats for having a Vietnamese girlfriend.

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Originally Posted by Lexarious

Except they already have concept art for a more Demi human Aura and specifically said they went with the current design due to the fanbase probably not liking the older concepts. It's also already been stated but a good portion are fine with the humanoid body, just not completely the same as the other races with minor additions. If you do that go all the way but we already know this fanbase will find people with full scales/claws as ugly so that probably won't ever happen.

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Concept art is not the same thing as what actually works.
That's why it's called concept art. Often what is portrayed in concept art is found to not actually be possible within the game's limitations, or there's no way to work with what's in the concept art in the game.
It's not just the "players wouldn't like the full monstrous look" but "the full monstrous look would take us another 3 months or more of development time."

I wouldn't be too upset if Viera were introduced...

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

They... are... supposed... to... be... HUMANS.

ALL OF THEM.

ALL OF THE RACES.

ALL HUMANS!!

They're not bestial, they're human.

The game even references it at one point, but I can't even remember when...

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I've seen this said a lot, but i've never seen a direct quote, a source, or anything. I've tried googling it and came up with nothing. I am really curious about this.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

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I dunno, the girl Au Ra just look ambiguously tweeny in their faces, like pretty darn similar to my younger sister, while the dude Au Ra look ambiguously tough guy in the face. I don't think they're suppose to look like any ethnicity specifically, just like the Hyurs are suppose to be pretty vague.