DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

The only real thing I found wierd is the mention of Blood for Blood. Is there really an optimal time to use it mid-rotation? I've never thought about it before, but of all the Dragoon GCD skills, you basically can run Blood for Blood up for 80% of them (At least with my cycle, I tend to.)... So as long as you don't pop it at a Heavy Thrust that's going to lead into an Impulse Drive, it should be up for all your other bread and butter skills.

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Yeah. Ofc you pop it after HT.
Well in my rotation BFB cooldown is highly aligned to the rest of the rotation, meaning that the BFB comes off GCD at the exact moment when I need to use it. Any delays in between either results in not 100% uptime of BFB since you need to "wait" for the sweetspot or similar. But in general i was just trying to make a point of how fixed the rotation is :D

Also I sometimes find myself wasting some time because I actually rely on skills working as i want, to speed up the process and smashing on the button for off-gcd before the animations and stuff are done for the previous skill so that i get that small buffer time that you can steal in (esp if you have high-delay situation as i tend to have) if you do that just to realize that the HT didn't apply cuz the boss decided to turn and your BFB went up. but that is of course my mistake and luckily it doesn't happen too often :D

21 pages later, countless discussion and not even a

"Please look forward to it"
-Yoshi P

There's even a 83 page thread in the Japanese DPS forums right now about Dragoon and its need to be buffed. That was started on 11/7/2014 and not a single response.

And they almost always respond on the Japanese forums.

I feel like the developers and community reps are simply ignoring us here...

Is that a July 11th, 2014 or November 7th, 2014? I'll assume it's the former because 83 pages in 4 days would be bananas

Ah you're right it was actually neither and created on 11/7/2013 it was necro'd for all the new problems so excuse my mistake in the previous post.

But it is good to see that different populations of the game agree that there are problems with the imbalance that the game currently suffers.

(Although they seem to focus heavily on the MDEF more so then the DPS)

DRG is my 2nd most played class next to BLM - to second a few points on this thread and add my own observations:

Jump Cooldowns: The damage done by jumps just isn't spectacular. Rather than see the jump do more damage I'd like to see the cooldown further reduced (esp. elusive jump). Dragoons should spend more time in the air.

Party Synergy: I was pumped when Apocacathemuzupustasis became 30% magic damage reduction vs. limited elemental resist. BLM has so few abilities to contribute to the party. DRG needs a similar change - instead of our debuffs benefiting only BRD, they should help the entire group. There needs to be a compelling reason to include DRG in the mix - not just for dps.

Enemy Positional Windows: I think the size of the enemy hit windows should be greatly increased - esp. rear. The small hit windows are part of why spinning bosses make DRG dps drop to last place.

NOTE: My graphic represents what the hit boxes feel like - so put away your protractor. http://i.imgur.com/ttawNGA.png

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Originally Posted by thepalehunter

*snip*

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What you have marked as "improved" is how rear hit boxes actually work. The area where there is no ring behind an enemy is whats considered the rear of the mob.

My point is they need to be relaxed - allow some overlap.

wait, overlap? so you have a spot where you can stay still and not move when executing skills that need rear/back? that's called "dumbing down".

I REALLY don't think that's what the devs were going for when they designed some skills to be more efficient from the flank and some from the beck. They MEANT for players to have to move constantly to maximize their dmg output.

Just want to add that as a MNK/NIN player, DRG needs to be buffed. I don't want a nerf hammer ruining my fun on either of those jobs, and I want to be able to add DRGs to my party when I need replacements so that we don't have loot competition and LB gauge slow-down.

Please buff DRG however much is needed - give them more HP and a potency buff or whatever needs to be done.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

wait, overlap? so you have a spot where you can stay still and not move when executing skills that need rear/back? that's called "dumbing down".

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For DRG it isn't just more efficient to hit flank or rear - it totally shuts down your rotation if you don't. The rear hit box is the most challenging (frustrating) to hit.

I think you either relax the hit boxes or remove positional requirements. The first seems a less radical course. Increasing the potency could help, but the problem is getting that hit in the right spot.

I like moving around as DRG - that's why I play it as an alt to BLM - but there needs to be some payoff for putting in the extra effort of dodging attacks, running in circles to catch spinning hit boxes etc.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

wait, overlap? so you have a spot where you can stay still and not move when executing skills that need rear/back? that's called "dumbing down".

I REALLY don't think that's what the devs were going for when they designed some skills to be more efficient from the flank and some from the beck. They MEANT for players to have to move constantly to maximize their dmg output.

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Kind of in agreement here. Your "current" graphic also shows dead zones. There are no dead zones atm, you are either front, flank, or rear.

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Originally Posted by Seoki

21 pages later, countless discussion and not even a

"Please look forward to it"
-Yoshi P

There's even a 83 page thread in the Japanese DPS forums right now about Dragoon and its need to be buffed. That was started on 11/7/2014 and not a single response.

And they almost always respond on the Japanese forums.

I feel like the developers and community reps are simply ignoring us here...

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Are there any forums in particular that the devs/community reps actively read and post in?

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

Are there any forums in particular that the devs/community reps actively read and post in?

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English forums wise, General Discussion seems to be the place that the english devs and english community reps post the most.

For japanese devs/english community they seem to post everywhere on the japanese forums.

The lack of a response is …. pathetic.

Ignoring this disgusting imbalance and not addressing it will not make it go away. It will only make it worse, people will become more vitriolic and bitter and the community will suffer as a result.

Is this the precedent you are setting then? If there is found to be further imbalance in the future, will you simply ignore it as well? Or is it just Dragoons that get this unfair treatment? Paying customers would like to know.

You've ignored it and fobbed it off for too long, Yoshida. Man up and correct your mistake.

Whenever it's about jobs, it takes very long for a response. It has been the case in FFXI and also now in FFXIV. Remember when we mentioned how WAR 2.0 was broken (actually, it didn't scale with content, but they chose the easy way out and gave us mitigation just like PLD, hooray for the poor 1.0 class remnant)?

Yoshi-P himself said several times that they want to look into the current class/job system. Maybe even a huge change to avoid attribute gimping and limited options because of cross class abilities, in short: to get rid of the 1.0 remnant. I have yet to read an official comment about it. The only thing official is that DRK will not need a base class. Maybe it will start in 3.0?

Can't give a solution to your DPS, but most parties would overlook it if DRG's magic defense was not so abysmal.

Its simple, decrease DRG's HP, give same defense/magic defense as MNK/NIN. SE pulls out the balance card, but why exactly does DRG need to be heavy armored stat wise? This is something that needs a serious fixing for DRG.

There does need to be consideration made into balancing of dragoon dps with that of mnk/nin. They have two really strong melee and one average, which seems like a flawed design in an RPG. Its fair to ask for buffs, when it allows the playing field to be at the same level. At the moment it seems more beneficial to all people to play Ninja or Monk, rather than Dragoon.

I do hope that Square Enix is looking at a way to balance Dragoon to make it a viable class that can compete with the other two in melee damage throughout a raid.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

Such as this:

which strikes me as somewhat disingenuous.

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There is no mechanic in this game that prevents flank/rear unless it locks you in place (eg bind in T8), forces a specific movement (eg shriek in T7), or stops you all together (gaols/conflags etc). As for T11, most strats I see have tanks teathered in front obviously, and, lets say tanks are north or 12 oclock, other 2 groups on the flank/rear split around 8 and 4. That places non-tanks essentically on the line of flank/rear which is the exact place mnks and drgs want to be. If your group is forcing you to stand off to the side 90 degrees at 3 or 6 and never move then work with your group. Its doable.

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Originally Posted by xnonamex

Umm... this just shows how bad you are or your rotation is. One missed HT or ID costs a lot. It is just not apply it later. Type of thing. Because an optimal DRG rotations is highly fixed (esp if comparing to other melee classes) since there are quite a lot of timers that need to be managed:
HT, DIS, CHAOS, PHENO, BFB, IR, LS, PS (did i forget any?) so that's 8 timers that need to be aligned to get the max out of the class.....(etc)

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A drg rotation is essentially broken into 3, 20 second blocks before repeating. Each 20 second block is 8 moves. If done perfectly HT is on when you actually re-use HT, Dis is still up when you acutally use your next Dis, you clip CT by 1 GCD all because we stopped using fracture when drg got buffed way back when. This means if you miss HT 1 time, you will only delay by <2.5 sec meaning that the worst thing that happens is HT falls off right before you do your new HT, but is still on for everything else. Same with Dis. 1 whiff actually prevents the 1 tic CT clip. The worst thing that happens is a single GCD (the reapplication of HT or DIS) will not have the effect on the actual HT or DIS, but it will be up for everything else. Unless you miss 2+ in which case it falls off 1 GCD earlier for each whiff and then might start to fall off on your TT or whatever. Again the avg pot per GCD is about 260. Whif=100. with possible loss of either Dis or HT on the next Dis or HT. If its HT you loose 20% of 170. 17. if its Dis you loose 11.11111% of 220. ~25. 260-100+17+25=202. I stand corrected. it isnt under 200 its basically is 200 (unless its the opening one where you have no buffs up in which case its closer to 180). Again, more numbers less 'feeling' about how much it hurts you. You dont like what i say? Provide a better calculation. Dont just blindly parrot "buffs fall off and thats a lot of damage you loose". SHOW me how much damage you loose.

As for the offensive buffs, they get used on cooldown 99% of the time unless you save for a specific burn phase (or not using it during a phase like B4B during AOE damage), or its the opening salvo. Beyond those 2 singular exceptions you should hit them on CD. Whiffing a HT mid fight has zero correlation with holding buffs. Messing up with buffs up always sucks. Ever bunny a kassatsu raiton with B4B up? Man that feels horrible. Just wasted your best CDs for nothing and delayed your GCDs performing it.

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Originally Posted by xnonamex

I'm not saying DRG is terrible class. I still like to play it and i don't even mind missing stuff once in a while and loosing some deeps on it because as you said - eventually you can learn it some fights how to mitigate that and I don't mind the punishment since as you said everyone has that (let's not go into how mild or severe it is). The bottom line is that MNK and NIN do more deeps ( i think we can all agree to this) and bring more utility (and this).

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Again, ill reiterate my stance that the complaint is lack of deeps and/or lack of utility. Im not opposed to a buff to address these issues. I AM opposed to positional easing because (as shown above) it doesnt drastically ramp up drg ST damage, and we all agree it doesnt do squat for utility. 5 Positionals a min are the the only thing drg has regarding gameplay mechanics that take any thought at all and i dont want to see it dumbed down when the removal does NOT address the actual gripes with drg.

Again: Show that positionals easing dramatically buffs Drg ST damage enough to 'fix' it (numbers Prz. Not rhetoric), or that they help utility. Otherwise There is no rational argument that easing positionals addresses the actual gripes about drg. Its just easier for the sake of easier without addressing the problems people have with drg. Everyone has already stated plainly that drg doesnt even do enough dummy damage when you DONT mess up positionals. There is a logical whiff connecting "Drg doesnt do enough damage on dummies when landing positionals vs mnk/nin" to "Drg needs easier positionals because its damage sucks to keep up with mnk/nin". It makes no sense. Buff utility /thunbs up. Buff damage /sure i guess. Nerf positionals..../wtf?

Okay, so for the most part, everyone agrees that DRG is in need of a buff. For those of you who don't understand why that is, it's really quite simple. A DRG doing its maximum damage potential will not be doing the same level of damage that a Monk or Ninja being played to its maximum potential will. In addition to that, our only utility is in the form of a piercing damage debuff we can place on mobs to buff damage done by ourselves and Bards, but even with the added damage that Bards get from this our effective DPS is lower than that of a Monk or Ninja. The only other utility abilities we really have access to are Feint, which due to being on the GCD is not viable in any endgame scenario even when by some miracle the mob being fought isn't resistant to Slow entirely, our stuns, which we use primarily for damage and when used as stuns are more of a hindrance than a help due to being so much less effective than tank stuns, and a weak cross-class Mantra from Pugilist for anyone who felt like leveling that all the way to 42. Compare that to a Ninja's Goad, Trick Attack, Jugulate which can both silence AND stun, and Dancing Edge, or a Monk's full Mantra, access to both a stun and a silence, and Dragon Kick's INT reduction, and you'll see why it is that DRGs are unhappy to be doing so much less damage with so much less utility.

There are a few ways this could be remedied. First, find some way to buff DRG utility. There was talk of making less-used skills more desirable back as far as 2.3, yet skills like Feint have still seen no change, despite clearly being offenders of this. The easiest solution I see here would be to make it an off-GCD skill, while leaving its damage and effect untouched. Alternatively, give DRGs a reason to use it in our standard rotation by buffing its damage, and reduce the effectiveness of the slow it applies in some way, or even change the additional effect entirely. I also think changing Spineshatter Dive from a stun to a silence would help boost our perceived utility, though I acknowledge that this would cause its name to make less sense.
Another option is to boost our damage output. One suggestion I've seen for this is to boost the Heavy Thrust buff from 15% to 25%. I personally don't like that idea, as it's essentially giving us Greased Lightning 3's damage output for a single skill, and not only that, but then the effect of that suddenly dropping is even more catastrophic to our DPS than it is right now. That said, while a lot of people seem to think removing the positional requirements for Heavy Thrust and Impulse Drive in some way would help balance things out, I disagree. Moving around is not only not an actual DPS loss (as in not part of the real problem), but it's part of the job's playstyle that makes it feel different from the other melee jobs. Spreading out the buff among different abilities makes more sense in my opinion. Boost potency of the Full Thrust combo a bit, buff damage on our jumps slightly, and most importantly boost the piercing debuff from Disembowel to at least 15%. Disembowel is currently our only real utility, and in buffing it we'd be receiving both a buff to our own damage potential as well as our utility.
The third buff we could receive is slightly different in nature, as it addresses a different problem we as a job have had for a long time, and as such should not be done instead of the other buffs mentioned, but in addition to them. Most people by now have likely realized I'm referring to our Magic Defense. Due to our naturally higher Physical Defense, I don't believe that our Magic Defense needs to be on the same level as the other jobs, but it definitely needs a buff to some degree. The fact that I as a DRG can die so much more easily to magical abilities, which make up a large portion of aoes in endgame content, that no other job struggles with, especially with our increased proneness to be hit by them due to animation locks like Jump's, is nearly insulting. Yes, Disciples of Magic have decreased physical defense in the same vein. However, unlike how DRGs are likely to get hit by magical damage, there's virtually no chance of, say, a BLM getting hit by a physical attack unless something else has gone seriously wrong in that fight. This has been an issue for far too long and needs addressed in some way as soon as possible.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE DRG BUFF OR WE RIOT ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Seriously to solve this just make DRGs a true glass-cannon. Low DEF and MDEF which basically will screw you up if you get once or twice but +300 potency to all our GCD and off-GCD skills except for Mercy Stroke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJJOrR4wj8 0:15 to 0:31 is the situation where DRGs are in right now lol.

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

our Magic Defense.

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http://i.imgur.com/9d71eJj.png
Yeah it's pretty bad when as you said most party damage that goes on someone other than the tank is magic, almost makes me think the people who decided on this were thinking like this.

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

lolwat

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I always knew DRG's magic defense was pretty miserable...but wow.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I always knew DRG's magic defense was pretty miserable...but wow.

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Which is very absurd. Lore-wise we are elite knights trained with the sole purpose to fight dragons and dragons wield magical powers! Technically we should have high MDEF (My i110 DRG has around 680 DEF now so at least we should have 600ish MDEF). But in-game our gears' MDEF is lower than a crafter body? "Oh yeah that wool apron that you can buy in the market has better resistance against magic compared to this cuirass that was made by the Allagan engineers for their lancer unit".

I don't even play DRG, but I agree. Lowest mDEF, positional combo requirements, animation locks, no Fists of Earth or Perfect Dodge...

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I always knew DRG's magic defense was pretty miserable...but wow.

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Yeah, it's fucking dire. When Ramuh EX first came out, if our DRG was charmed, two Thunderstorms with one or more balls on the field killed him. Point blank. Like, if he didn't have Apocatastasis or I didn't Virus and we didn't notice a stray ball or an overlapping Thunderstorm, he was smoked.

It's not as bad now with more gear but jesus.

I like how DRG is loaded with positional requirements. It gives a big risk/reward. But for DPS so volatile, what are you rewarded with for getting all your positionals? Lesser than MNK and NIN dps.

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Originally Posted by Aana

There is no mechanic in this game that prevents flank/rear unless it locks you in place (eg bind in T8), forces a specific movement (eg shriek in T7), or stops you all together (gaols/conflags etc). As for T11, most strats I see have tanks teathered in front obviously, and, lets say tanks are north or 12 oclock, other 2 groups on the flank/rear split around 8 and 4. That places non-tanks essentically on the line of flank/rear which is the exact place mnks and drgs want to be. If your group is forcing you to stand off to the side 90 degrees at 3 or 6 and never move then work with your group. Its doable.

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In T11 when you get tethered you have to stand 180 degrees from the other tether set, and to make dodging easier it's pretty common to stack even if not tethered so the first aimed Nerve is on a tether group for sure. It's not as simple as position tanks here, melee there. Also, Nerve Gas, you have to take what you can get as you try to survive and not run into the other group. Also, you can't take any liberties at all when you're tethered, no stealing positionals when you can or you will kill you and your partner.

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Originally Posted by Aana

The worst thing that happens is a single GCD (the reapplication of HT or DIS) will not have the effect on the actual HT or DIS, but it will be up for everything else.

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The problem isn't missing one GCD. It's missing 2+, which is actually pretty common when a mechanic forces you to miss a positional (T8, T9, T10, T11, most of the specific mechanics that force you to go to specific spots require you there for more than 3 seconds, especially T11. If it was just one GCD every time, you're right, it wouldn't be as bad as we're saying ... but it is). That's when it goes into terrible territory, when you're skipping CT for a whole rotation or doing an unbuffed FT combo.

Is it so unreasonable to ask to be screwed over equally with the only other two classes of its kind in the same position? The potency loss alone is enough. As long as SE makes mechanics based on your character moving in/out of a mechanic while still expected to attack the boss, this will always be something against DRG whereas MNK/NIN get a slap on the wrist. In fact, if they buff DRG to near MNK/NIN levels via more DPS and MDEF, the positional requirement could in fact STILL deter DRG from being brought to now and future fights.

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Originally Posted by Andrens

Let everyone pop theyr CD/Potions during that +10%... you will understand

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Are you the type of guy that thinks healers should only heal during mantra too?

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

For monks, this dps floor is not as far from their ceiling.

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Are you serious? Monks have the LOWEST dps floor, and the highest ceiling. If you drop GL your dmg plummets. All Monk skills have a positional requirement, and while you may still be able to combo while not at these positionals the dmg you are doing is significantly decreased.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

Through utility? no. ...(snip)... Dragoons have…. nothing.

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As mentioned in many previous posts, you have the ability to increasing a bards damage by 10% over the course of an entire fight. That is significant. You also have access to untraited mantra which I see Alot of people scoff at because "its only 5%", don't matter, every bit helps.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

Dragoons are punished for failing positionals much more harshly than monks or ninjas, meaning that mistakes made by a dragoon lower their dps output even further below a monk or ninja that makes the same mistakes.

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Yes, you are and should be. Each job has its own form of a punishment system. Monks take 9 GCDs to ramp up, 9, and failure to maintain that ramp up (whether due to being bad or because of mechanics, conflags in twin for example) causes your damage to drop abysmally low. Ninjas have the mudra system which is on the surface quite simple, every 20 seconds you have the chance to cast ninjutsu, but while you are casting you may do nothing else. Now we introduce ping, button smashing and other various bad habits that turn you into bunny Ninja, effectively locking you out of your mudras for another 20 seconds (25 if you too ashamed to slap your mudra key and become a bunny). Now for Dragoon we have the positional combo starters and damage boosts, heavy thrust and impulse drive. Missing these 2 causes your damage to fall quite significantly as well, but you only have to hit the first part of the combo as the positional. Heavy Thrust (side), Impulse Drive (back), disembowel (where ever you want), Chaos Thrust (where ever you want). Now if you look at that you only have 3 GCDs to get up to full power. 3 compared to a Monks 9. I will agree that Ninja has almost no ramp up as it is able to prebuff before a pull, but their only draw back is trick attack, their main raid utility to boost everyone's damage by 10% falls into the same category of your impulse drive/disembowel dilemma, and theirs is only usable once every 60 seconds. If you do not hit trick attack from the back, you deliver an attack with a potency of 240 and get no 10% vulnerability up for your team.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

So they do less damage, they take more damage, they have no group utility.

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They do less damage as we have touch on earlier because they buff Bard damage, which in turn makes up for the damage loss. The whole magic damage argument has been going on for a long time, I am neutral on it, I do not think it is a necessary change, dragoons aren't just falling over to raid damage unless they were not topped off which is either a healer issue or the dragoon is taking extra damage from other sources than the magic damage. The group utility was touch upon earlier in the post as well, 10% piercing debuff as well as the option to use untraited mantra.

My personal opinion on the matter of Dragoon buffs? They do not need a fundamental change. Buff heavy thrust damage boost to 20% and end all the crying.

Pretty hilarious to read all the posts saying "Aw hell naw DRGs are TOTALLY as strong\valued\powerful as MNK\NIN" when every reddit post\in-game conception is DRGs are scrubs, reroll MNK\NIN, loldrg, noobs who steal all the loot, etc...

2.4 has only been out for about 2 weeks now. DRGs already received a buff in the form of decreased cool down for some of their jumps.

I'm pretty sure NIN will get a nerf eventually. Theyre just thinking what that'll be

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Originally Posted by myahele

2.4 has only been out for about 2 weeks now. DRGs already received a buff in the form of decreased cool down for some of their jumps.

I'm pretty sure NIN will get a nerf eventually. Theyre just thinking what that'll be

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The buff they received in the jump department was mainly for gap closing capacity than an actual damage buff. I mean, it barely added anything in the damage department.

I'd just like to see elusive jump remove heavy in t11, I know its not even supposed to happen, but still would be nice.

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

BLM has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE
Derp.

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As someone who loves blm and trolling, this guy is just… bad both at blm and trolling

Blm gameplay wise, undermines the usefulness of virus and efe, no mention of apocastasis and leth@rgy, equating the uncontrollable directional factors with controllable factors like switching target before they die and auto face (do you know you can do that? LOL), and are you seriously saying astral fire3 is harder to boot and maintain than gl3?

Trolling wise, welp if it is not ironic at all it is just bad trolling

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Originally Posted by Ephier

They do less damage as we have touch on earlier because they buff Bard damage, which in turn makes up for the damage loss. The whole magic damage argument has been going on for a long time, I am neutral on it, I do not think it is a necessary change, dragoons aren't just falling over to raid damage unless they were not topped off which is either a healer issue or the dragoon is taking extra damage from other sources than the magic damage. The group utility was touch upon earlier in the post as well, 10% piercing debuff as well as the option to use untraited mantra.

My personal opinion on the matter of Dragoon buffs? They do not need a fundamental change. Buff heavy thrust damage boost to 20% and end all the crying.

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A few things here. First off, the numbers have been run countless times and, no, the extra 6% damage bards do (because Disembowel doesn't affect dots) does not make up for the difference in damage that exists between DRG and Monk both being played to maximum potential, and now that some groups are running a ninja instead of a bard (I've seen two on my server alone) even that is becoming a non-factor. Look at my previous post (bottom of page 22) to see exactly how DRGs' "utility" stacks up against the other melee jobs. Also, there are many cases of people noting exactly how significant the lack of MDEF is, and trust me, it's more noticable than you seem to think. Now, that said, I agree that the job doesn't need a large fundamental change in how it's played, it just needs some buffs to numbers to bring it back in line, and maybe a small adjustment to utility which we really do lack at the moment.

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Originally Posted by myahele

2.4 has only been out for about 2 weeks now. DRGs already received a buff in the form of decreased cool down for some of their jumps.

I'm pretty sure NIN will get a nerf eventually. Theyre just thinking what that'll be

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Looking at Jumps in comparison with Ninjutsu abilities is legitimately embarrassing for the Dragoon. Even then, Jumps are probably the least of their problems where the core of the problem is literally the flawed concept the job is based around.

I'm trying to find the interview where Yoshida and the developers basically said Dragoon was meant to be an easy, entry-level job and as such, they had no intention of buffing it. If they're still running with that concept, why even bother with making end game Dragoon gear if it's supposed to be entry-level and intentionally under-par?

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Originally Posted by Kyrosiris

Yeah, it's fucking dire. When Ramuh EX first came out, if our DRG was charmed, two Thunderstorms with one or more balls on the field killed him. Point blank.

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Back when I mained DRG I honest to god thought that having even a second thunderstorm on you meant hard-coded instant death no matter what and that there was no avoiding it, because of how much damage they do to us even with one ball out. I also thought Ancient Quaga in ST was designed to instantly kill people instead of severely damaging them. After I switched to NIN I realized I could actually take a second thunderstorm and live, among various other things. This is NIN, which we're told frequently is the 'most fragile' melee DPS of the three by NINs who desperately don't want to get nerfed.



That's how bad DRG's MDef is, people.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

As mentioned in many previous posts, you have the ability to increasing a bards damage by 10% over the course of an entire fight. That is significant. You also have access to untraited mantra which I see Alot of people scoff at because "its only 5%", don't matter, every bit helps.

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There's a reason most WARs don't use untraited mantra even when they have access to it. 5% isn't that special when we're talking about healing alone. If it were healing & increased health by 5% or it was 10% healing, that would be more useful, but as is it's only good insofar that it's better than nothing.

I say get rid of the directional combos; they're outdated at this point and have been stuck to dragoon since 1.0. They worked fine back then, for the most part, because the game was much more slower paced than ARR, but the 3-4 delay is what made it hard to work with. Now, it's just a chain ball attached to their leg. For other jobs it's not as big a deal and can be worked with, but it feels like an overly heavy burden upon dragoons in particular. My friend also says to greatly lower all jump cool-downs even further. More jumping would make them more unique to what a dragoon is supposed to be, plus it would create more weaving and extra dps. We figured giving it a temporary skill-speed buff like ninja has, but figured that would be way too overpowered in the end. Increased potency, greatly diminished jump cooldowns, and removing all direction-based combos (or at least limiting it to one ability, like ninja's sneak/trick attack) would balance things out more. I say we see how it fairs up then before doing any further tweaks to it.

DRG is by far the job I enjoy playing the most at the moment, I hope they won't change our positional requirements. I really enjoy having to predict the bosses movements and positions to keep my DPS going (like, I don't know, when Melusine turns around to throw a fireball when you're about to use Impulse Rush), you get rewarded for learning the fight or paying extra attention and this is something I like. That being said I still feel like we need a DPS boost, no question about it. But please don't make the job easier to play :< playing an under-valued job has its perks.