Locked out of the Duty Finder.

Even if you are not withdrawing...there are other issues...

Searched for Garuda Ex. and found a already playing party. I joined and was alone in the dungeon...great
I leave/abbandon because I dont want to waste 10minutes for the earlierst possible leave without penalty..I search again and same crap happens for 3 times, always land in empty dunngeons.... sigh
Then I had a questcutscene and was 2 slow to skip it...30min penalty ...the second one of today...

Earlier today we kicked a troll 3 times because he managed to get back in our grp... He was pulling the boss immediately and other stuff... This guy would probably get no penatly

this is probably the worst system i have ever seen in a mmorpg. at first i thought this would be ok for solo's who would just look for join in progress for easy tombs and such. But for it to apply to people in parties is just stupid, I've accidently picked the wrong routlette with my team and i withdrew guess what one of my friends has a 30minute penality for my mistake. Now people are joining dungeons and trolling just so they can be kicked and not have to worry about the penality Its really annoying. This should only apply to a solo person queueing if anything making it for parties is probably the worst idea to date. I've joined so many dungeons where everyone leaves or trolls to get kicked its silly I'd rather go back to the old way that was much more effective because atleast i'd finsh dungeons.

I have never received a withdraw penalty. I guess I am just better at clicking buttons than you? And your friend.....

This is one of the best systems implemented.

All of the people complaining on this thread, are the reason they created this system. You all are the reason there were so many withdraws and long wait times and trolls.

The people who understand how the system works (not complicated) can see it working very well, and keeping you guys out of the dungeons. Its happy times.

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Originally Posted by TornadoFury

this is probably the worst system i have ever seen in a mmorpg. at first i thought this would be ok for solo's who would just look for join in progress for easy tombs and such. But for it to apply to people in parties is just stupid, I've accidently picked the wrong routlette with my team and i withdrew guess what one of my friends has a 30minute penality for my mistake.

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Means they already had 3 strikes.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Means they already had 3 strikes.

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Difference is, they didn't deserve this strike because the leader made the mistake. Not him.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Difference is, they didn't deserve this strike because the leader made the mistake. Not him.

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Doesn't matter, the system is working as intended. It says as plain as day, 3 strikes then you get a lockout, means they gained 3 strikes on their own in that day..you can't overlook that important detail lol. They also said the strikes doesn't happen in full parties for certain content, only partial.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Doesn't matter, the system is working as intended. It says as plain as day, 3 strikes then you get a lockout, means they gained 3 strikes on their own in that day..you can't overlook that important detail lol. They also said the strikes doesn't happen in full parties for certain content, only partial.

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Regardless of your position on the general wisdom of implementing a penalty rather than redesigning a piece of content to close an exploit, you have to acknowledge that players shouldn't be incurring penalties because of the behavior\mistakes of OTHER players (though I recognize the irony that we have all inherited this "fix" because of the behavior of other players). Those folks who incurred those penalties might have been in two parties before the poster's - it doesn't mean that they as individuals had ever withdrawn from a duty, ever.

The system may be working as intended, but it sure isn't the system of a well-designed piece of content. I still expect they are going to have to revisit this at some point. It's just a sloppy fix to a problem that, had they chosen a design that was tried and true, would have never existed in the first place.

This system exists due to massive abuse by the player base. you are given three strikes per day before a penalty even applies. For those who are having trouble understanding why an entire group gets a penalty for withdrawing. its called accountability. yes I know video games and the Internet in general has moved away from this. Being responsible and accountable for ones actions extends to even those you choose to associate with. if you make a party with someone who gives you a strike you made that choice. This is a very welcome mechanic and will do well to keep people in line. Even when catastrophe hits and some how you managed to get three strikes. its only 30 minutes. It should not change

I disagree. This is a social game and as such, socializing should be encouraged. All this will do is cause fewer players to join up with a PF group because they might end up with a penalty. This isn't about who you "choose to associate with" - this is an arbitrary punishment for doing nothing more than joining up with a PF group to clear a piece of content.

The attitude that everyone should be punished because a couple of players used the system that SE originally gave us (hey - they made it possible to fish. Don't hate the players for using a system SE had in the game) is a toxic one. Better solutions can be found that don't involve punishing players who may have never fished a queue in their lives.

It is a social game, that is exactly why when a party leader is not social and just Q's or a person gets busy and doesnt speak up we get this withdraw issues. you have two options, become more responsable, social and accountable, or incur penalties
This is not messing with PF at all. I have seen no one say "I wont join PF because of this" These penalties are earned, it takes THREE. I have yet to get "one". Its easy to make a PF and ask people if they are ready to Q, 9/10 though your PF is a full party and this entire penalty system doesn't even apply. In fact penalty wise for withdrawing a PF group is SAFER. if anything this will make people want to completely party up.

When you PF and have less then a full group, it takes less then 1 minute to ask if everyone is ready. Its also easy to drop from Q when a member of the party says, gotta do this quick story quest, or crafting this item really quick, or even brb I need to do X, Y or Z.

be social, be responsible, because you are held accountable.

Also just because someone took advantage of a system to fish does not mean it was intended. It just shows that good intentions don't work with people not being held accountable. So make what abuse was happening stop. Unfortunately in order to stop something its alot like a law, people dont just follow them, its because when you break them you get punished. If a ton of people were not abusing this to no end, we wouldnt be talking. The only way to stop someone is to have them accountable for the actions, and let the punishment fit the crime. If you REPEATEDLY do this, after three you get a time out!

its a game not a friken business seriously stop taking it so serious so what if some withdraws and legit or not it dosnt matter its a online game so you shouldn't take any of the game serious there is no reason to have a system like this your basicly choking what it is to be online with a game by having a system just cuz i withdraw big deal seriosely its a retard system completely stupid and the only ones who agree with this system are complete cry babys over a few seconds longer in a que

people like you is the reason why we cannot have nice things

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

its a game not a friken business seriously stop taking it so serious so what if some withdraws and legit or not it dosnt matter its a online game so you shouldn't take any of the game serious there is no reason to have a system like this your basicly choking what it is to be online with a game by having a system just cuz i withdraw big deal seriosely its a retard system completely stupid and the only ones who agree with this system are complete cry babys over a few seconds longer in a que

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Can turn that right back on ya... ~.^

It's a game. People hitting 'withdraw' over and over is a frustration point for many. SE addressed that. Don't take the occasional 30 minute lockout so seriously, especially when you had to hit withdraw 3 times to get penalized.

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Originally Posted by Noata

It is a social game, that is exactly why when a party leader is not social and just Q's or a person gets busy and doesnt speak up we get this withdraw issues. you have two options, become more responsable, social and accountable, or incur penalties
This is not messing with PF at all. I have seen no one say "I wont join PF because of this" These penalties are earned, it takes THREE. I have yet to get "one". Its easy to make a PF and ask people if they are ready to Q, 9/10 though your PF is a full party and this entire penalty system doesn't even apply. In fact penalty wise for withdrawing a PF group is SAFER. if anything this will make people want to completely party up.

When you PF and have less then a full group, it takes less then 1 minute to ask if everyone is ready. Its also easy to drop from Q when a member of the party says, gotta do this quick story quest, or crafting this item really quick, or even brb I need to do X, Y or Z.

be social, be responsible, because you are held accountable.

Also just because someone took advantage of a system to fish does not mean it was intended. It just shows that good intentions don't work with people not being held accountable. So make what abuse was happening stop. Unfortunately in order to stop something its alot like a law, people dont just follow them, its because when you break them you get punished. If a ton of people were not abusing this to no end, we wouldnt be talking. The only way to stop someone is to have them accountable for the actions, and let the punishment fit the crime. If you REPEATEDLY do this, after three you get a time out!

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Regardless of whether or not there are some makeshift ways to deal with this current system and how it applies to partial groups does not mean it's good. Even with all the communication in a world, a member of the group can make a mistake. But that mistake should be owned by that player alone, it should not affect the entire group. A group withdrawing from the queue has no greater effect on the people they are queued with than an individual withdrawing from the queue. So there is no reason to punish the whole group in this instance other than to cause unnecessary drama.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Doesn't matter, the system is working as intended. It says as plain as day, 3 strikes then you get a lockout, means they gained 3 strikes on their own in that day..you can't overlook that important detaill lol. They also said the strikes doesn't happen in full parties for certain content, only partial.

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working as intended doesn't mean the system isn't stupid

This was not a strike that he earned on his own. This was given to him by being in a partial party where someone else is entirely responsible. It's unreasonable. It's unnecessary. And the only purpose it serves is to create animosity and distrust between players.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

working as intended doesn't mean the system isn't stupid

This was not a strike that he earned on his own. This was given to him by being in a partial party where someone else is entirely responsible. It's unreasonable. It's unnecessary. And the only purpose it serves is to create animosity and distrust between players.

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It does prevent partial parties from fishing for in progress runs. That said... only applying it to the party leader might work just as well.

I love how the attitude of so many people is that you should be super paranoid and only party with people you, what, know in RL or something? Never use Party Finder, etc.

Having to worry about joining up to help people giving you strikes is anti-social and anti-party-formation, and just ridiculous. When I first saw the patch notes I thought "meh", until I learned about the group-punishment aspect. So yeah, guess I will be joining fewer parties in the future, thats somehow going to help queues? (Fewer tanks should definitely help, right? :P)

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It does prevent partial parties from fishing for in progress runs. That said... only applying it to the party leader might work just as well.

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You know you can't select the "in progress" option when you queue as a partial group, right? It even mentions this right in the signature of the post you quoted...

you can still fish, its what your fishing for that is different. When i was on a different server a group of my friends on balmung Q'd multiple times over and over till I got matched for my low level dungeon when i was leveling on midgard. They were fishing for Me.

Then Later i moved to balmung. it happens it was an abuse and I was most certainly not the only person this happen for. its one way to abuse it and they pretty much stopped it across the board. That being said, If you join a group what they do good or bad is directly tied to you. even if a stranger withdraws. YOU CHOSE THAT GROUP. You literally cant be forced to join. So yea the penalty applies to your entire group. its not enjoyable but then again you didnt need to join that group. its a risk. Even then its only 1 strike. even if you get super unlucky you have 2 more. Q times for groups are pretty short

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Originally Posted by Noata

you can still fish, its what your fishing for that is different. When i was on a different server a group of my friends on balmung Q'd multiple times over and over till I got matched for my low level dungeon when i was leveling on midgard. They were fishing for Me.

Then Later i moved to balmung. it happens it was an abuse and I was most certainly not the only person this happen for. its one way to abuse it and they pretty much stopped it across the board. That being said, If you join a group what they do good or bad is directly tied to you. even if a stranger withdraws. YOU CHOSE THAT GROUP. You literally cant be forced to join. So yea the penalty applies to your entire group. its not enjoyable but then again you didnt need to join that group. its a risk. Even then its only 1 strike. even if you get super unlucky you have 2 more

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You're really stretching. Almost nobody does this, and anybody who does moves servers so it stops happening. Thus making it so infrequent that applying the penalty to only one group member is more than sufficient.

I explained how fishing can work outside of in progress, that works with a group. I basically explained exactly WHY a group cant fish and gets a penalty. Their goal was simple. stop fishing, not just one type but FISHING. thats exactly why groups get penalized. ya its less frequent but what good would it be to have a double standard and make a system for stopping fishing that doesn't stop fishing...

You need only answer these. Does this stop fishing? yes!, Does it offer normal players a reprieve from emergencies or something that takes priority. Yes, 2 free withdraws before a penalty. Does it stop people from taking advantage of the fishing system. Yes. the group gets the penalty not just the leader that can pass his role to allow more fishing. Its thought out and rock solid, and its got people pissed cuz they cant somehow take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by Noata

I explained how fishing can work outside of in progress, that works with a group. I basically explained exactly WHY a group cant fish and gets a penalty. Their goal was simple. stop fishing, not just one type but FISHING. thats exactly why groups get penalized. ya its less frequent but what good would it be to have a double standard and make a system for stopping fishing that doesn't stop fishing...

You need only answer these. Does this stop fishing?, Does it offer normal players a reprieve from emergencies or something that takes priority. Yes, 2 free withdraws before a penalty. Does it stop people from taking advantage of the fishing system. Yes. the group gets the penalty not just the leader that can pass his role to allow more fishing. Its thought out and rock solid, and its got people pissed cuz they cant somehow take advantage of it.

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And I answered THE PROBLEM YOU DESCRIBED IS SO SMALL THAT IT ALMOST DOES NOT EXIST.

Oh, and giving only the person that withdrew a strike would still give the party only so many strikes. You'd need more than that to reliably match up with the person you're talking about. So it would still stop fishing.

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

its a game not a friken business seriously stop taking it so serious so what if some withdraws and legit or not it dosnt matter

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Game or not people don't like having their time wasted because someone finds it cute to troll the queue. If you had only 3 hours to play and you spend a total of an hour waiting for someone to stop wasting your time, guess what? You just lost 1 out of your 3 hours to play waiting just TO do content.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

people like you is the reason why we cannot have nice things

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no one can have nice things because cry babys like you cant deal with anything slowing u down cuz u lack no life outside of the game if you frustarted with withdraws then seriosely theres something wrong with you you need to put your controller down and go outside and get yourself a life seriously

no, it gives you 6 tries, that is DOUBLE the amount of tries intended for a player. assuming the dungeon is a 4 man. What I listed was one way. if your a DPS depending on your FC's willingness to help you that exact moment, you could premade it have one guy fish as tank to help you or even get 2 people to fill the roles that havent been matched yet. say you Q and a healer gets matched and your waiting on two more.... FC helps out fishes and done. This stuff was not just happening a little. Think of a time you asked your FC to help you by Qing as the required class needed to get the Q, or even if a couple came to help. My FC has helped me at the expense of others. Now we cant, It doesnt change much except that now less people suffer cuz I want a fast Q.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

This was not a strike that he earned on his own. This was given to him by being in a partial party where someone else is entirely responsible. It's unreasonable. It's unnecessary. And the only purpose it serves is to create animosity and distrust between players.

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So what you're saying is, based on this:

The party withdrawing gave him THREE. STRIKES. AT. ONCE.? You do realize...he had to have previous strikes on his own for one more to basically lock him out, right? So the way you're arguing is that the party withdrawing that one time gave him ALL OF THE STRIKES NEEDED TO GET A TEMP LOCKOUT.

It doesn't work that way and people against this really seem to be forgetting details. It's one of two things:

1. The person got penalized as they should.
2. There's a bug that they choose not to report.

Which is it?

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

no one can have nice things because cry babys like you cant deal with anything slowing u down cuz u lack no life outside of the game if you frustarted with withdraws then seriosely theres something wrong with you you need to put your controller down and go outside and get yourself a life seriously

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It seems like you are doing a lot of "crying" over the penalty system and maybe you should take you're own advice and if this penalty system is "frustrating you then you should put your controller down and go outside and get a life." Cause just like you said "it's just a game."

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Originally Posted by Noata

no, it gives you 6 tries, that is DOUBLE the amount of tries intended for a player. assuming the dungeon is a 4 man. What I listed was one way. if your a DPS depending on your FC's willingness to help you that exact moment, you could premade it have one guy fish as tank to help you or even get 2 people to fill the roles that havent been matched yet. say you Q and a healer gets matched and your waiting on two more.... FC helps out fishes and done. This stuff was not just happening a little. Think of a time you asked your FC to help you by Qing as the required class needed to get the Q, or even if a couple came to help. My FC has helped me at the expense of others. Now we cant, It doesnt change much except that now less people suffer cuz I want a fast Q.

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Only way this works is with a healer on one side of the server and a tank on the other server. In this case it might work because both will pop queues near instantly. Downside is since both queues will pop so fast, you need to be burning strikes on both sides. So you won't get 6 tries, 4 is probably the best you'll get and that's if you've got 2 people on each side.

Otherwise, if you're trying to link with a DPS, this will be damn near impossible to actually match up with the person on the other server unless there is NOBODY in the queue. Good luck with that now that everybody is leveling ninjas.

6 tries is not enough to make this work reliably, the limit would serve as a sufficient deterrent to the 20 people out of 2 million or so who try to pull this off.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Game or not people don't like having their time wasted because someone finds it cute to troll the queue.

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noone was trolling before on the queing your not counting 95% of the people who were withdrawing had a legit reason and as i said before this system dosnt stop trolls just enourages them to be more creative in the ways they troll so
deal with your time being wasted if u cant deal with a few people screwing with you then you shouldnt be online to start with their is no nicey people at all everyone is just in stuff for their own sake rather its humor or not fact is no one cares about your time expect you if u want to play with others get used to your time being wasted

and the only ones who even could troll the queing are tanks and healers why because dps gets about 2 hour ques the lowest is 50mins so honstely it dosnt matter your only going to get 1-2 dungons if ur only on for 3 hours

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So what you're saying is, based on this:

The party withdrawing gave him THREE. STRIKES. AT. ONCE.? You do realize...he had to have previous strikes on his own for one more to basically lock him out, right? So the way you're arguing is that the party withdrawing that one time gave him ALL OF THE STRIKES NEEDED TO GET A TEMP LOCKOUT.

It doesn't work that way and people against this really seem to be forgetting details. It's one of two things:

1. The person got penalized as they should.
2. There's a bug that they choose not to report.

Which is it?

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no, i'm saying that even if the party withdrawing gave him one strike, he does not deserve that strike as he was not the one to either hit withdraw or time out. Doesn't matter if he gets two more strikes after that one, that was one strike too many.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Legacy

It seems like you are doing a lot of "crying" over the penalty system

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nop im not bothered by it personaly fact is its a stupid system which kinda destroys the hole point have having a withdraw button now we cant withdraw for legit reasons because of some cry babys

and honsetly it was complete waste of time for them to create a stupid system such as this for little babys who cant deal with the cruleness of how it is online our time is wasted deal with it im perfect fine with some wasted a hour or two of my time by pushing withdraw dosnt phase me a bit

the time it took to create this stupid system they could have easily made us solo dungons or other things so honstely what im rlly complain about is them listen to cry babys who cant deal with the facts of being online which made them waste time to create a stupid system such as this

Its the trade off, You group with players and you get a faster Q time, downside If someone drops its gonna get a strike. not because of YOU but because of the PARTY that YOU are a part of. the party committed the withdraw. and your a part of it. naturally you get the penalty. Its a penalty for the whole party. It also doesn't take alot of fishing attempts to match up, 6 would be plenty. though since your filling in exactly whats needed and most people either PF full groups or solo Q your one of the few groups that just happen to match perfect. after all if their were a lot they wouldn't be asking you to Q to fill in the spots left.

you can rephrase all you want. but the penalty is THREE STRIKES, its gotten by either personally withdrawing or being in a premade party that withdraws. and the system was implemented because of mass abuse by the playerbase.

Talk to people see if they are ready and Q. Most of the cases of this party penalty will go away. be a little social. also speak up and let them know when you are busy or going AFK.

less then 10 seconds of " are you ready" "yes" "no"
or even "brb need to grab X, or going to the bathroom"

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Originally Posted by Noata

Its the trade off, You group with players and you get a faster Q time, downside If someone drops its gonna get a strike. not because of YOU but because of the PARTY that YOU are a part of. the party committed the withdraw. and your a part of it. naturally you get the penalty. Its a penalty for the whole party. It also doesn't take alot of fishing attempts to match up, 6 would be plenty. though since your filling in exactly whats needed and most people either PF full groups or solo Q your one of the few groups that just happen to match perfect. after all if their were a lot they wouldn't be asking you to Q to fill in the spots left.

you can rephrase all you want. but the penalty is THREE STRIKES, its gotten by either personally withdrawing or being in a premade party that withdraws. and the system was implemented because of mass abuse by the playerbase.

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If they're asking you to Q to fill the slots that are empty, you shouldn't need to fish at all since it's very likely to match you right away. They could do that now with 3 attempts.

There's nothing to rephrase. What you describe doesn't matter and should be ignored for all the reasons stated.

It should be three strikes against the person that withdrew ONLY. No one else should be affected because there isn't any reason to do this beyond your made up little scenarios. Period.

Im totally happy of this new systems. So far got no penalty. Queues had been faster specially for ST, No more 100 withdrawn, people thing twice and more to even withdraw. You just have to be aware when it pops.

So, I was just signed up for Thornmarch with my friend. My friend signed up as a healer, went to do Fates on Ninja to pass the time. After quite a while, the queue finally showed up - but my friend didn't manage to get away from aggroing mobs in time to switch classes and accept - so we both got a strike.

People who support the whole party getting a strike for things like these would probably be fine with being thrown into jail for a crime their neighbor committed.

that was a bad analogy and you should feel bad

We needed something, but the system could be so much better. If the DF knows who has completed a required quest to join a queue, it should know who has strikes. Therefore, it should also be able to assign strikes to an individual who withdrew, and if that person alone accumulates three strikes, the party gets a message that a player does not qualify to join the queue, just like if they were missing a quest. That player alone gets the lockout and has to leave and/or the rest of the party gets to choose if they want to wait instead of having it forced on them. There's no reason to penalize the whole group, that part is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

that was a bad analogy and you should feel bad

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Punishing one person for what another person does or fails to do is wrong, no matter what it's about.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...33e38b5f50.jpg

Just a few silly examples of designs gone wrong... SE has no monopoly on it. Can't fix stupid!

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73...96689fff13.jpg

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Originally Posted by M0xie

We needed something, but the system could be so much better... Therefore, it should also be able to assign strikes to an individual who withdrew, and if that person alone accumulates three strikes, the party gets a message that a player does not qualify to join the queue, just like if they were missing a quest.

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I agree that if they are committed to keeping punishments in the game as their chosen way to redirect undesired behavior, they should at least design it so that the actual behavior that caused the perception of trolling is the ONLY thing that is actually punished (and mind, I'm still in favor of redirecting behavior by redesigning the queue itself).

Instead of accumulating a strike just for withdrawing from a queue, because no one should accumulate a strike just because they had something else come up in RL or couldn't get out of a heavy aggro zone in time, it should be set up so that if you withdraw again from the queue within five minutes, you get a strike. Another withdraw in five minutes, another one. So on up to the amount they decide is the lockout threshold. Then DPS who just happen to miss a queue won't get a strike and have to worry about gluing their eyes to the screen for the next half hour while they wait again, and the ONLY behavior affected by this is the actual behavior they were trying to curb. The only reason any tank\healer fished for queues was because the time\reward ratio could be quite attractive due to fast queue pops. Make them drag it out over the course of say, a half hour - and you've solved the problem.

Why they chose to implement a punishment at all is baffling enough - I hope they at least tweak it so fewer innocents are caught in the crossfire. I'm not really sure which is worse - their crusade against RMT or their new crusade against queue fishers.

The reason you cannot have 1 person in the party get the strike, and not the entire party. Is it would in effect give the party 9 chances to get the dungeon they wanted. (assuming party of 3)

Dungeon cycling is def a problem, and defeats the purpose of roulette. People will abuse it. It's just a fact.

The OP complaining about his lockout, is misleading this entire thread because 1 withdraw by himself or party members would not lead to a lockout. It would only be a strike. So therefore he is leaving some important facts out.

It sounds like he was trying to dungeon cycle around something and didn't realize how the penalty worked. And then got mad.