Good point. This would be a good reason to have a low cooldown (to get feedback and balance / tweak the feel of an ideal Raid Dungeon in FF 14's conditions). We'll know soon enough. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Time limit to re-enter dungeons
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07-21-2011, 02:24 AMKiara
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07-21-2011, 02:24 AMRichardand it took other linkshells 1 month to cap out 25 people on all NM gear. Not every case will be the same. No one can contest that the current dungeons will have a smaller life expectancy overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
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07-21-2011, 02:25 AMZkieveSo basically this is all " dont get to 50 there is nothing there" or " stupid power levelers why rush look at grass grow " all over again.Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel
I think in the end what is inside the dungeons is what matters not the timer , but the instant gratification crowd need to get a clue about what people are complaining about. -
07-21-2011, 02:25 AMRichardstop telling people how you think they should play the game kthnx. unless you work for SE that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel
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07-21-2011, 02:26 AMNeroGreat Idea.. hey wait.. i got a better one:Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel
Why not giving every Player 999 Mils of Gil, every exisiting piece of Gear, making all Jobs to 50 right when made a Character and then lets stay in the town and talk about bee's and flowers. -
07-21-2011, 02:26 AMDurtiMonkeyToe1 month > 1-2 weeks by your 'guestimate'Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
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07-21-2011, 02:26 AMBetelgeuzahAnd you can guess twice to which player the drop rates are tuned for:Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel
The guy who tries again tomorrow
The guy who tries again for six hours straight.
And who will be worse off in this scenario. -
07-21-2011, 02:27 AMDurtiMonkeyToeOr unless you are Richard, because apparently he can also tell people how they should play the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
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07-21-2011, 02:27 AMEekikiPractice what you preach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
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07-21-2011, 02:27 AMDurtiMonkeyToeA: No one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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07-21-2011, 02:28 AMDurtiMonkeyToeThis is the most irrelevant post I have ever read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero
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07-21-2011, 02:28 AMRichardQuote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
saying that the lockout timer need to be longer to extend content is not telling people how to play the game. its a suggestion on how to make sure people KEEP playing the game for LONGER.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eekiki
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07-21-2011, 02:30 AMMishaThis is what alot of the naysayers don't get lol Cooldown adds NOTHING to the game but more grief or handholding for those that can't control themselves and act like they HAVE to clear the content cause other people are doing as such or because it allows em too lol @ all the people acting like this is FORCING you to play the dungeon back to back or that you have to cause other people decide to do it that way >.< Play at your own pace with your own friends in your own way, who cares how others play xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
Edit: Challenge or accomplishment or even longevity comes with content that is harder not more restricted^^ Let's just hope Yoshi was right about it being hard, otherwise doesn't matter either way :P -
07-21-2011, 02:30 AMNeroIts just like 190 other Posts in this Thread. Absolutely meaningless...Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
I have should been aware of, that not everyone will get the sarcasm. -
07-21-2011, 02:30 AMBetelgeuzahOutside your own little head*Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
Sorry, I had to clarify. -
07-21-2011, 02:30 AMSagageminiNow i get it lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nero
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07-21-2011, 02:31 AMDurtiMonkeyToe
"Suggestion" is just a polite way of saying "This is how the game SHOULD be played."
What the poster said about waiting a day was ALSO a "Suggestion".
See the correlation there? Probably not.
Regardless, it is obvious that the Devs don't share your view and that they probably did this for a reason that we will not know until the future. -
07-21-2011, 02:31 AMDurtiMonkeyToeWhich part is that clarifying?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Is it: Who does it really hurt *Outside your own head*
or
A: No one *outside your own head*
? -
07-21-2011, 02:37 AMZkieve
It doesnt matter if the timer is 5min or 5h.
If the dungeon is a go stright kill all and kill a boss, then it sucks.No matter who complains from both side if the event is engaging and fun . everyone will dig.
Casuals , the content will be done really fast .
Hardcore , timer dont make the content harder, availability is a good thing for the players, not the developers who have to bring out new thins faster. -
07-21-2011, 02:38 AMBetelgeuzahWho will be worse off in this scenario *outside your own head*?Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
We already know the answer if we were in your utopistic never-land, but that doesn't sadly help us here. -
07-21-2011, 02:38 AMDurtiMonkeyToeSooooo.... was I right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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07-21-2011, 02:45 AMBloodLotus
lol this is funny.
It's not even a big deal.. why am I surprised it's turned into such a rabid debate?
I'm on the side that says 5 min re-enter isn't a bad thing. -
07-21-2011, 02:46 AMKiaraHi Durti,Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
I'm presenting both sides of the case here.
The bottom line with those 20 Mid-Level NMs were that for many of the FF 14 population (since many were well over Rank 30), the sense of accomplishment was diminished.
I've also helped groups of ~Rank 25 - 34s try and get their R30 NM Gear over the past few months (on my own R30 Class), and for those people? They thanked me and felt happy, but it wasn't anything special.
As soon as they realized that even though we didn't get the drop, but we can retry in a few minutes and try again until we got it, they could all spare ~30 minutes to 1 hour (i.e., repeatedly try those NMs a few times in our group) and eventually get their drop and be done.
(and then go back to doing Guildleves again.)
At this point, all we can do is wait and see how the final implementation will turn out. -
07-21-2011, 02:47 AMHotohori
I can see the point the hardcore players are trying to say that the total amount of content will not last them very long with a quick re-entry timer but the point some are trying to make is rather ridiculous. The actual amount of content to think about is the actual amount of time inside the raid itself. People are declaring that it's already not enough without actually knowing how long it will take them inside to do what they need to do. What hardcore really should be demanding is more playable content if they fear this and not stretching out the time between the content so it feels like you've been going through it for a long time when the actual amount of time inside has been roughly equal in achieving the same goals to what it would be with no time restrictions.
Some people just can't hold back unless there is that long forced re-entry timer for fun content and I'll probably end up going for at least 8 hours with friends if it really is fun on the first day. Even if it only lasts me 2 weeks, it will have been a solid 2 weeks of fun content playing inside which I just happened to rush through. -
07-21-2011, 02:47 AMBetelgeuzahSure, before I excluded one of the answers :/Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
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07-21-2011, 02:49 AMRabidSquirrelBut it's a poor way of stringing content out longer than it should be. Waiting is always the worst way of making content last. Tactics like that are outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
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07-21-2011, 02:51 AMSpeeralbut Zkieve its fun watching trolls trolling each other. this thread is trollfest 2011Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
all we are missing Osia and Giftforce/horse getting into full swing on this one. -
07-21-2011, 02:51 AMBetelgeuzahIt's the most effective way to make content last.Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel
Thus, it'll never be outdated. As long as the game's profitability depends on it. -
07-21-2011, 02:53 AMgiftforce
Is this really such a big deal? Why can't we just play the dungeon as much as we want?
I mean, you can run through cassiopeia hollow whenever you so please so why shouldnt the same rules apply to an instanced dungeon?
It's not isntanced because it's special, it's instanced because it gives the dev team more tools for development. -
07-21-2011, 02:55 AMDurtiMonkeyToeThe issue with your example is not the timer, its the fact that you are running mid-level content on a r50 class. This has nothing to do with the current argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
What the other side of the fence is saying is: Their has to be a 36 hour timer on the dungeons to make it an accomplishment. I'm sorry, this is bullshit. It doesn't matter if I accomplish it in one weekend or 1 month, the ACCOMPLISHMENT is the EXACT same. The only thing adding a timer to the dungeons is going to accomplish is the FORCED dragging out of content.
The basic argument is "Put a timer on it to make the content last longer." This is artificial, archaic, and just down right dull. -
07-21-2011, 02:55 AMDurtiMonkeyToeSo who DOES get hurt by it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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07-21-2011, 02:57 AMKiaraHi Chardrizard,Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
Good point. :) That is definitely the most important aspect: The *challenge* itself. If it's an interesting, engaging Boss and Dungeon, with tricks / puzzles and strategies... that'll be most important.
But I'd say the majority of NMs / HNMs in XI could be seen as a failure in that light *alone.* (i.e., just "tank and spank" as the saying goes.)
The other part of it was the rarity of finding / claiming that NM / HNM. If Valkurm Emperor or Nidhogg was on the same 5 Minute Cooldown that our Cactuar Jack is on, I think it'd diminish the experience somewhat. Again, I'm not asking for a repeat of FF XI's ridiculous 21 - 24 Hour Respawn / Cooldown Rates or the 72-Hour ones. But Rarity (in this case how common / repeatable something is in a time period) accounts for something I think.
Ultimately, you'd hope that every single NM, Dungeon, Raid we get faced with is unique, genuinely engaging and challenging, making you think and keeping you on your toes, but I don't think the FF XIV Team is aiming for that (as evidenced by the current "high level" NMs (like Great Buffalo, Uraeus) or the 20 New Mid-Level NMs (even when we killed them on our Rank 30s). They're pretty straightforward (unfortunately).
We'll find out soon enough. (I'm pulling for these Dungeons. Here's to hoping they're fun! :) -
07-21-2011, 02:58 AMTotobiQFT. Couldn't say it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
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07-21-2011, 03:00 AMZkieveI tough what the other side of the fence was saying is that they will be left with nothing to do (that is assuming is something it can be done with a degree of difficulty at lv 50) way to fast.In the end i think eighter way game needs a lot more content in general before they can start charging .Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
Once and only once they fix the basics. -
07-21-2011, 03:02 AMBetelgeuzahDroprate tuned for the people doing multiple runs a day = people that don't meet those standards will get things done slower than intended, and the content will drag out for them while the hardcore get their stuff in a timely manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe
Droprate tuned for the one-per-day group = people that do more runs clear the content faster than intended, have nothing to do, get bored, complain, and leave. Hardcore loses (in the long run), the company loses. -
07-21-2011, 03:03 AMZkieveThis i would stop playing right away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Drop rate should be equally , and personally ill dig with long cool downs but not with salvage type drop rate. -
07-21-2011, 03:03 AMDurtiMonkeyToeWhich is what I said. They want a timer put on the dungeons to make it last longer. How this makes them "better" is beyond me. You are FORCING people to wait just for the sake of making them wait. It seems like a ridiculous argument to me. Basically they are saying that it is SE's responsibility to make sure they don't blow through content faster than it is being put out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
All I can do is /shrug. Some people need boundaries set for them by other people, others set their own boundaries. It's called maturity. -
07-21-2011, 03:05 AMDurtiMonkeyToeThat is speculation. Most hardcore players got at least a month out of the top tier NMs. Some got longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Not only this, but Dungeons are not the only content being put in the game, just the most anticipated. -
07-21-2011, 03:05 AMgiftforceMaybe they need to consider a way to make self-perpetuating content then, since they cannot keep up to the demand of hardcores.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Oh yeah... make a sandbox game like I've been suggesting all along and like Tanaka seemed to be doing. Wow. Imagine that. -
07-21-2011, 03:06 AMBetelgeuzahSo hardcore will get their stuff 1/2 too fast as before, get bored and quit, while the casuals take 1/2 too long to get their stuff, get bored and quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkieve
Yay for the middleground!
It's not speculation that a part of the playerbase SE wants to keep will make good use of the 5min cooldown while others are the opposite.Quote:
That is speculation. Most hardcore players got at least a month out of the top tier NMs. Some got longer.
It doesn't matter what X (how long it takes to clear the content) is. What matters is how long the devs intend the content to last, and how hardcore population will take less than that time to finish it, and the opposite for casuals. Two hours, a week, a month, 3 months... Whatever.