Repairing Repairs

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Originally Posted by Darium

Arrowwood Arrow Shafts
Ash Arrow Shafts
Cedar Arrow Shafts

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There are 9 types of branches and three types of arrow shafts..

and 1 branch makes like 999 arrows..

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Originally Posted by Arcell

So where does all this dark matter come from?

(Surprised no one brought up the reference yet)

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So we can use it to power our starships, too? ^_^

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I'm going to get branches. Branches that have now been rendered useless.

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You assume that nothing else will change in that regard. It's possible that:

• There will be more recipes for branches introduced later (albeit this is coming in 1.19 and later)
• The frequency of branch drops will be reduced

As far as Lore is concerned forget where it comes from.. It's un natural.. That means no one in Gridania is aloud to use it. It violates natures laws.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The most commonly acquired Item by Botanists is Branches. I'm talking 20 to 1 over everything else they gather. Branches are used for two things, wands and repairs. And people don't make that many wands. Am I now going to be Dark Matter at 20 to 1 odds from trees when i go out gathering? i think not. I'm going to get branches. Branches that have now been rendered useless.

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Yes, things change. Change happens. We asked for change. There are plenty of rather useless drops one gets from gathering. Branches become one of them now? Maybe. Big deal? Hardly.

Unless you made most of your gil from selling branches as repair mats, this barely effects anything. If you did manage to make your gil mostly from selling branches, now would be the time to explore other existent avenues for income.

Depending on what the NPCs sell dark matter for, it may become a valid source of income as well. With this change, you can bet your wood that dark matter is going to be in more demand than branches.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

So we can use it to power our starships, too? ^_^

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Not anymore, the Anti-Backwards Crystal exploded, remember.

Time to stock up on whale oil.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Not anymore, the Anti-Backwards Crystal exploded, remember.

Time to stock up on whale oil.

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Nice reference!!!

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Originally Posted by Kiote

There are 9 types of branches and three types of arrow shafts..

and 1 branch makes like 999 arrows..

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Willow branch is for:

Willow Wand
Willow Short Bow
Willow Fishing Rod
Bronze Throwing Dagger

Pine Branch is for:
Pine Crook
Bronze Bardiche
Pine Fishing Rod

Just to name a few. Branches, spetches, fents, nuggets, etc are not ONLY for repairs!

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The most commonly acquired Item by Botanists is Branches. I'm talking 20 to 1 over everything else they gather. Branches are used for two things, wands and repairs. And people don't make that many wands. Am I now going to be Dark Matter at 20 to 1 odds from trees when i go out gathering? i think not. I'm going to get branches. Branches that have now been rendered useless.

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It's possible that they'll create a new use for the branches that will become obsolete or they could simply be replaced by dark matter. And btw what was the point of an oak branch +2?

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Originally Posted by DoubleEcho

Willow branch is for:

Willow Wand
Willow Short Bow
Willow Fishing Rod
Bronze Throwing Dagger

Pine Branch is for:
Pine Crook
Bronze Bardiche
Pine Fishing Rod

Just to name a few. Branches, spetches, fents, nuggets, etc are not ONLY for repairs!

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Thank you, I almost started a list to disprove his/her theory but decided it wasn't worth my time. Thank you for not being as lazy as me.

It's not about the branches man..

There "Solution" is causing more problems than its fixing.. Dev 101 Don't break more thing when you add something new.

This is,

Destabilizing an already unstable economy

Hurting the Gathering Classes which they openly have no intention of supporting for a long time

Breaking Lore in dozens of ways

Tearing one of the few aspects of crafting out of the game

And, once again, dumbing things down

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Not anymore, the Anti-Backwards Crystal exploded, remember.

Time to stock up on whale oil.

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I wuv you, Renta. I hope that doesn't confuse and infuriate you.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

So we can use it to power our starships, too? ^_^

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Not anymore, the Anti-Backwards Crystal exploded, remember.

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Originally Posted by Doctor Who

Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow!!

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:p:p:p:p:p

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Originally Posted by Kiote

It's not about the branches man..

There "Solution" is causing more problems than its fixing.. Dev 101 Don't break more thing when you add something new.

This is,

Destabilizing an already unstable economy

Hurting the Gathering Classes which they openly have no intention of supporting for a long time

Breaking Lore in dozens of ways

Tearing one of the few aspects of crafting out of the game

And, once again, dumbing things down

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Again have you forgotten that both crafters and gatherers will play a new HUGE role in the economy once the materia system is released? Gatherers harvest the catalysts and Crafters set materia into equipment. Materia is going to be a huge part of the game and both gatherers and crafters have extremely integral parts in it. Time to stop looking at the immediate future and take a look at the bigger picture for once!

Kiote i think you are a troll and this thread is stupid now <.<

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Originally Posted by Kiote

It's not about the branches man..

There "Solution" is causing more problems than its fixing.. Dev 101 Don't break more thing when you add something new.

This is,

Destabilizing an already unstable economy

Hurting the Gathering Classes which they openly have no intention of supporting for a long time

Breaking Lore in dozens of ways

Tearing one of the few aspects of crafting out of the game

And, once again, dumbing things down

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I really think you and Dubont are blowing this out of proportion. I don't see how this is going to ruin the economy. Gathering classes are going to get a bonus from this as they'll be able to gather a much needed item while they're gathering their other mats.

Breaking lore? Come on now that's a stretch :)

This doesn't hurt crafters either - As I said, repair materials are not a large part of the economy. Skillup mats and shards encompass by far the largest portion.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Kiote i think you are a troll and this thread is stupid now <.<

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I'm Not a troll..

I play Crafting and Gathering Classes.. That what i do. It's what i find to be enjoyable about this game. I'm sorry I don't want to blindly tear apart the things i find fun because other people dont know how to manage their inventory.

I play every class in the game equally and I have no problems with my inventory.

It's not fair to ruin the experience of other's Gameplay Type for such a ineffective fix.

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Originally Posted by DoubleEcho

Breaking lore? Come on now that's a stretch :)

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The entire town of Gridania revolves around respecting nature. Every class based in that town refuses to do anything that would break the laws of nature. Having a single magical sunstance that can manipulate anythign in the world pretty much tears that town and those classes down.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

It's not about the branches man..

There "Solution" is causing more problems than its fixing.. Dev 101 Don't break more thing when you add something new.

This is,

Destabilizing an already unstable economy

Hurting the Gathering Classes which they openly have no intention of supporting for a long time

Breaking Lore in dozens of ways

Tearing one of the few aspects of crafting out of the game

And, once again, dumbing things down

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While I can't say this will hurt the economy in a big way (since the economy is already broken). It's a bit silly that they are using only 5 universal items to fix everything. Really, what's the point of repairing items now...oh wait, the jerk who's only gonna offer 500gil to repair everything.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Having a single magical sunstance that can manipulate anythign in the world pretty much tears that town and those classes down.

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Which is going to happen soon anyway, so what's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Again have you forgotten that both crafters and gatherers will play a new HUGE role in the economy once the materia system is released? Gatherers harvest the catalysts and Crafters set materia into equipment. Materia is going to be a huge part of the game and both gatherers and crafters have extremely integral parts in it. Time to stop looking at the immediate future and take a look at the bigger picture for once!

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Gatherers are going to gather the catalysts mats. No matter how many times SE says it that is not a huge role.

/sign..
When they put the repair system, you cried to remove it.
When they change to more simpler but still have fun, you cried to make it the same..

What the heck????

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Originally Posted by Kiote

It's not about the branches man..

There "Solution" is causing more problems than its fixing.. Dev 101 Don't break more thing when you add something new.

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Epic foresight approaching...

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This is,

Destabilizing an already unstable economy

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An economist. I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion without knowing the rarity of dark matter, the value NPCs will sell them for, and how often one will be able to keep it after repairing. Surely this must be an educated prediction rather than a pessimistic emotional response to change!

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Hurting the Gathering Classes which they openly have no intention of supporting for a long time

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* Dark matter can be obtained from vendor NPCs, as guildleve rewards, and through gathering.

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Breaking Lore in dozens of ways

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lol, really?

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Tearing one of the few aspects of crafting out of the game

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I... think we can still repair stuff. More stuff even. With less inventory clutter. Yeah, I totally feel like I lost something as a crafter now...

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And, once again, dumbing things down

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I believe Renta already answered this one in greater detail than was even necessary. It was a mindless action before, and still remains a mindless action now.

Filling your inventory with a variety of mats does not make anyone/anything smarter.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The entire town of Gridania revolves around respecting nature. Every class based in that town refuses to do anything that would break the laws of nature. Having a single magical sunstance that can manipulate anythign in the world pretty much tears that town and those classes down.

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Not really. The Lancers, Archers, Conjurers and Botanists still respect nature and the forest. They still do pretty much everything they've always done, except now dark matter can repair things. It's not explained how but it does and that's all you need to know. It's a video game based in a fantasy world with magic and monsters, how is it so hard to believe that you'd have a substance that can be used to fix a wide variety of things?

I skimmed through previous replies and didn't see this mentioned anywhere, but I think these changes are a step in the right direction. I just don't think SE went far enough with the implementation with their decision to go to a generic "fix-all" type repair item. The problem will remain of having to carry multiple repair items (only 5 rather than myriad crafted items), so in all likelihood, lower lvl items will simply go unrepaired because crafters don't find it worthwhile to stock and carry those repair materials.

I would've liked to have seen them go a step further by making just a single Dark Matter item but use multiples of that item for each repair tier. This would not only solve the residual inventory issue of having to carry 5 different types of Dark Matter for repairs, but it would also allow repair costs to scale in a perfect linear fashion with higher level equipment. For example:

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Tier 1 = 1 Dark Matter
Tier 2 = 2 Dark Matter
Tier 3 = 3 Dark Matter
Tier 4 = 4 Dark Matter
Tier 5 = 5 Dark Matter

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They could even weight the higher tiers more heavily, like Tier 4 = 5 Dark Matter, Tier 5 = 10 Dark Matter. Going this route with a homogenous repair item that scales and increases with item rank would also mitigate future concerns as increased levels and ranks are introduced to the game (rank 6, 7, etc Dark Matter).

Another viable solution using their planned framework is to make it so Dark Matter does not take up normal inventory space, but is given its own "tab" similar to Shards/Crystals/Clusters.

In addition, It'd be nice if there was an option for Repair to automatically take Dark Matter from the person who needs their item repaired and not from the crafter who is doing the repair. This would not only facilitate repair so that the crafter does not need to have the item, but it would also allow the person who needs repair to reduce the amount of reward they offer for repair. In the past, this was not a viable option due to failure and failure rates, however, the new system states that anyone who is capable of attempting a repair will be guaranteed success.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Gatherers are going to gather the catalysts mats. No matter how many times SE says it that is not a huge role.

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Except it is. Just because you don't want to acknowledge it doesn't mean it's untrue. People are going to be in a constant cycle of wearing down gear and breaking it down into materia to slot into better gear (which they will later wear down and break down into materia). You think the catalyst used to bind materia to gear isn't going to be an item with an astronomically high demand? Everyone is going to need it. All level ranges, all classes, everyone. Gatherers are the only ones who can supply it. How do you not get that?

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

While the current, or previous, system of repairing may be better for the niche audience, it will not be widely accepted by any new players that join the game. SE wants to bring in new players and save this game from its own destruction, not listen to the small minority of people that want the game a certain way.

This new system is more user-friendly, less tedious and redundant, and more streamlined for the current mmo market. Keeping the old system would just give more reasons for any new players to hate the game.

Hate it or love it, this was a good business decision and it will make the game much more enjoyable for a vast majority of people.

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Originally Posted by Miyochan

/sign..
When they put the repair system, you cried to remove it.
When they change to more simpler but still have fun, you cried to make it the same..

What the heck????

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I for one have never said that and will never say that. I think the repair system was perfect the way it was.

This is a terrible design choice that makes no sense and will only cause more problems.

I've said my piece, you people obviously do no t care about this at all.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I for one have never said that and will never say that. I think the repair system was perfect the way it was.

This is a terrible design choice that makes no sense and will only cause more problems.

I've said my piece, you people obviously do no t care about this at all.

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It's obnoxious to think people do not care because they do not agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I wuv you, Renta. I hope that doesn't confuse and infuriate you.

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No, but it does take my breath away.

What are they going to do about the tanner guild quests? The argument that this destroys lore does have some merit. This destroys all of the lore built up for an entire class. There could be other lore conflicts as well, but that is what I have come across so far.

*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*

The 20, 30, and 36 tanner guild quests revolve around properly repairing items. Heck, the core of 36 guild quest is learning the recipe to repair some shoes. To paraphrase a quote from those quests... "repairing an item is just as important as being able to make an item."

It is just as important. Who says it can't be made more convenient?

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Originally Posted by WillRiker

What are they going to do about the tanner guild quests? The argument that this destroys lore does have some merit. This destroys all of the lore built up for an entire class. There could be other lore conflicts as well, but that is what I have come across so far.

*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*

The 20, 30, and 36 tanner guild quests revolve around properly repairing items. Heck, the core of 36 guild quest is learning the recipe to repair some shoes. To paraphrase a quote from those quests... "repairing an item is just as important as being able to make an item."

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I'm afraid you are mistaken my friend. it has already been decided that this can not in any way Break the Lore of this game. I mean, how could randomly turning every repair item in the game into a single fix all break the lore? It doesn't make sense.

(Now This post of mine is a Troll Post. Thought you might want an example so you can stop randomly shouting TROLL!)

I'm sure it will be worked into the lore, just like any other change.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I'm sure it will be worked into the lore, just like any other change.

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Speaking for myself, I don't really give a rip about the lore at all. Not that many people really care about it enough.

As long as the game mechanics are solid, I don't mind broken lore since I'm not going to read it all anyway. However, some people do care, so I would want them to fix it up later, after the more important changes are done.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Speaking for myself, I don't really give a rip about the lore at all. Not that many people really care about it enough.

As long as the game mechanics are solid, I don't mind broken lore since I'm not going to read it all anyway. However, some people do care, so I would want them to fix it up later, after the more important changes are done.

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What could possibly drive you to play a game if you don't actually pay attention to what is going on?

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but i hear this all the time and it drives me crazy. Why would you play a game if you dont care about the story? It doesnt make sense to me.

I care about lore. I read all quest text and guess what, this change doesn't bother me one bit.

I'm in favor of it because it's much more easier to handle.

How many people sell their eq to the NPC rather then repair it because the material outweigh the armor?

At least now, it stabilizes the whole system, where a low level armor = low cost repair.

It was either this or lower the number of equipment that needs repairing. (which I also endorse)

It's a little fluffy since material -> gil is still makes a messy model, but alternatively you can introduce "rare repair rank" if you want to introduce some really uber equipment, but make it a pain to upkeep.

You DO realize this game is being fixed right? You understand that it has been going through significant changes, and will continue to do so in the near future. The new team came in to fix the game, and the community gave them the go ahead in the polls.

The game is still incomplete and in a pseudo-beta status. If they had to worry about the current lore each time they wanted to change something, nothing would get done.

They can fix the mechanics first, and then worry about the sugar-coating.