Say No to auto-attack!

It's a lot more relaxing, that's for sure. And isn't that what games are about?

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Originally Posted by Skeloton

yes because watching the recast timers is so much more fun /sarcasm

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Watching your laggy stamina gauge is more fun /sarcsam

At least now you can plan your actions instead of hitting 1 while doing that..

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Originally Posted by DonC

Watching your laggy stamina gauge is more fun /sarcsam

At least now you can plan your actions instead of hitting 1 while doing that..

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I'm sorry, you weren't able to plan an additional press of a button before? How...have you been playing video games all this time, all of which require you to be pressing multiple buttons?

I understand that you like the system as it stands. I'm not saying you shouldn't. However, I just don't quite get this line of reasoning. Same can be said for the post above the one quoted. This is more relaxing? Were you honestly stressed by the system before? Did it cause you angst? How so?

I don't mean to pick and prod, but...really?

How is it more boring not to be pressing 1 every now and then in between actually doing stuff? Sorry but this system is better.

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

How is it more boring not to be pressing 1 every now and then in between actually doing stuff? Sorry but this system is better.

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First and foremost: Timing your attacks and managing your stamina bar allows for more control lying with the player. You set your own pace. The act of "pressing 1" (as if that was all there was to it) isn't what's important. It's the removal of input.

Second: A great number of attacks had some sort of special effect that was readily available. Marauders were able to AOE regularly, Lancers were able to immobilize targets, Gladiators were able to pile on additional hate with each strike (which used to be able to come quite rapidly. Now? A minute inbetween heavy stab/slash), so on and so forth. As things stand, these defining skills have been heavily marginalized in favor of a system that, quite frankly, seems like an exercise in laziness.

Complaints about a stamina gauge limiting players is just...not something I can wrap my head around. Pacing yourself, and finding a sweetspot on your own was part of it. That was strategy. That involved skill. That added to the emphasis on positioning and timing of engagements.

Less control =/= "More skill/strategy/whatever the buzzword of the week is"

It never has, it never will, and to suggest otherwise is just factually incorrect. Like I said: I get that you like the system as it is. I understand that it is more familiar to your average MMO player now. I'm not asking you to change your mind. But there's some really, really...odd twists and leaps of logic going on in these discussions.

Sorry I can't believe that timing the '1' key spam required skill/strategy, it is just tedious. As it stands, the system is basically the same with the exception of hitting that same key over and over which doesn't add skill.

What it does allow is you to spend time doing other things like battle planning during fights (typing), positioning or moving your camera instead of staring at your stamina gauge hoping that it will refresh so you can do your next ability (while the lag meant that you barely got a true representation). I have played many MMOs and got along fine with the '1 spam' and soloed lots of things but auto attack is far better.

This is also slightly more relaxing because spamming 1 key over and over is tedious.

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Originally Posted by DonC

Watching your laggy stamina gauge is more fun /sarcsam

At least now you can plan your actions instead of hitting 1 while doing that..

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I did quite well planning my actions before the spam began and did better when the plan fell apart and had to adjust. Now I just fall asleep pressing the same buttons in a pattern over and over like its pre-programmed into my brain.

So you're argument is just pretty much that it's the same as before, but just pushing less buttons and less messing up?



>.>

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

So you're argument is just pretty much that it's the same as before, but just pushing less buttons and less messing up?



>.>

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...No. No, combat is actually slower, and requires less of the player in order to function. That is not now, nor has it been my statement. I would also like to know how you've managed to "mess up", if the older combat system was as simple as has been stated? Wouldn't a greater chance of error be indicative of a system requiring more "skill" and "strategy"?

Anyway, as for this continued "1 key" thing...you've glossed over a rather large part of the issue, that being those little things that are attached to the secondary attacks that all classes get. It takes sixty seconds to be able to AOE swing as a Marauder. Same for launching an attack that increases enmity as a gladiator. So on, and so forth. Again, I understand that you like the system, however that doesn't mean that you can pick and choose bits and pieces of a statement, and still hope to argue your own case.

You're going to have to read the entire post. And then digest it. Then reply. That's the order of things.

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Originally Posted by Geruvah

First and foremost: Timing your attacks and managing your stamina bar allows for more control lying with the player. You set your own pace. The act of "pressing 1" (as if that was all there was to it) isn't what's important. It's the removal of input.

Second: A great number of attacks had some sort of special effect that was readily available. Marauders were able to AOE regularly, Lancers were able to immobilize targets, Gladiators were able to pile on additional hate with each strike (which used to be able to come quite rapidly. Now? A minute inbetween heavy stab/slash), so on and so forth. As things stand, these defining skills have been heavily marginalized in favor of a system that, quite frankly, seems like an exercise in laziness.

Complaints about a stamina gauge limiting players is just...not something I can wrap my head around. Pacing yourself, and finding a sweetspot on your own was part of it. That was strategy. That involved skill. That added to the emphasis on positioning and timing of engagements.

Less control =/= "More skill/strategy/whatever the buzzword of the week is"

It never has, it never will, and to suggest otherwise is just factually incorrect. Like I said: I get that you like the system as it is. I understand that it is more familiar to your average MMO player now. I'm not asking you to change your mind. But there's some really, really...odd twists and leaps of logic going on in these discussions.

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This, a hundred times.

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Originally Posted by MattyWS

So you're argument is just pretty much that it's the same as before, but just pushing less buttons and less messing up?



>.>

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uhhhh if you are a pugilist you should know that the playstyle is vastly different now that you have long cool downs on light strike, and flurry is also on a long cool down and has no basic mechanic attached to it.

the essential removal of light strike and pummel greatly effect your ability to be a counter heavy tank, especially tied to taunt recasts, flurry has gone from being an interesting basic mechanic to a cheesy version of a WS.

they taking away of stamina has taken out the strategy element in choosing what skills and attacks to use, now you just do them all. While i can see why people would prefer this, it doesnt make for a very deep or engaging combat. but this is a side issue. Its gone now, AA is here, i can live with it.

My major problem is the removal of basic uniqueness and style from the class by putting basic skills and abilities on long cool down timers. Man i wish i was like arch, who basically had very little actual change that effected them. Maybe they should add a manual mode that puts your good basic skills on a 15 second timer instead of a 30 to 60 second timer. AA is workable, but making 3 dd into essentially the same class is crap city

Seeing as there are those who like auto attack, and those who like the old combat system. It would be a good idea if SE implemented the ability to toggle between the two combat systems, that way everyone is happy. :D

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Originally Posted by Nicho

Seeing as there are those who like auto attack, and those who like the old combat system. It would be a good idea if SE implemented the ability to toggle between the two combat systems, that way everyone is happy. :D

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I very much doubt that, those who like AA as its implemented as if it has no fault (the Devs will admit theres still stuff to iron it out). They'll just begin to be selfish and hate those who would switch back.

I do love AA as it is, but that is because I know any/all the obvious flaws are due to the fact that it's in development, and that is something everyone needs to respect. They didn't need to give us AA just yet, they knew people would complain despite the fact they even said it's not finished. So yea, people think it sucks, but said people don't seem to put into account that it's being developed as we speak. I'm a firm believer that AA is the way to go with this game. People said they dont like AA and the older system just needed tweaking, but they fail to realise that all AA needs is tweaking too.

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Originally Posted by Nicho

Seeing as there are those who like auto attack, and those who like the old combat system. It would be a good idea if SE implemented the ability to toggle between the two combat systems, that way everyone is happy. :D

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I've been saying they should do this since I first saw the AA vid.
It's unlikely, but if they did this, I wouldn't begin to express how grateful I was.

Problem is people don't really understand how these things work. It's all fine saying "Lets just add everything to make everyone happy!" but I'm afraid this will never happen. SE need to choose one road to go down, and they have chosen Auto-Attack.

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Originally Posted by Nicho

Seeing as there are those who like auto attack, and those who like the old combat system. It would be a good idea if SE implemented the ability to toggle between the two combat systems, that way everyone is happy. :D

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this is actually close to impossible from a design standpoint. When a new system is introduced, that system doesn't ONLY apply to players. All mobs then have to use that system. Game mechanics are ALSO build around that system. So if, by some miracle in technology, they added the ability to toggle between the system, the game would be even more broken than it already is because the mobs wouldn't switch and neither would the mechanics...

How it is any different then pressing...
1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1??

So you want to force everyone to keep pressing the button over and over again. That is not fun. That is frustrating and just make thing more difficult.

Is this thread still going on?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

this is actually close to impossible from a design standpoint. When a new system is introduced, that system doesn't ONLY apply to players. All mobs then have to use that system. Game mechanics are ALSO build around that system. So if, by some miracle in technology, they added the ability to toggle between the system, the game would be even more broken than it already is because the mobs wouldn't switch and neither would the mechanics...

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It's a lot more problematic than that. Having two radically different battle systems available for players would always lead to one being better than the other. There would no longer actually be a choice.

Also, the stamina based battle system was problematic from a pacing perspective. You started out with full stamina, so you could frontload a lot of abilities, causing a huge shift in potential character strength as time progressed during a fight. This means players could attempt to brute force through short fights by burning all their stamina immediately, then switching to auto-attack for longer fights where the initial burst won't carry you as far.