Hissatsu: Kaiten

Watching the behavior in DNC weaponskills, I'm somewhat positive Ogi Namikiri can't share button with Ikishoten as the former is a weaponskill and the latter an ability (the same way Devilment and Starfall Dance are separated but Technical Step and Tiliana are on the same button). Why this happens is anyone's guess (my best guess the transition from one button to the other comes with a delay, which can be worked around between a GCD interval but not when the first button is an ability).

And while I hold my indifference about the removal about Kaiten, i must add that I didn't really feel the class was really bloated, specially with the removal of the actions linked to Third Eye.

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Originally Posted by Laphicet

Turn off BFX for a while and you'll figure out it's just spamming 1 then spamming 2. There's no depth to it at all and it's somehow even more shallow than healer gameplay. It just has a metric assload of particle effects strapped to it to try and hide how shallow the gameplay is.

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The difference between healer and Kaiten is what the button represents. I call it mechanical flavor, or finger aestheics. And one of my big problems with healers is that their DPS skills - the buttons that you press most in content, generally lack that flavor.

I'd compare Kaiten to GNB's Continuation. The removal of that skill would free up a button, and make burst window boss movement less silly. But for those who enjoy the mechanical flavor of the skill, being unable to "pull the trigger" sucks.

SAM may or may not play well after the changes. But people lamenting that SAM has gotten more bland are not wrong for feeling that way.

For me personally, Kaiten is an integral part of SAM job fantasy and a highlight of the entire rotation. Removing it would hurt the experience for me by a significant amount, especially when there are numerous other ways of reducing bloat mentioned in this thread. I really hope the team reconsider their decision.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

It's not simplicity for the sake of simplicity, they're removing the button to remove button bloat, which is especially a problem for console players.
Besides, I like white mage it's fun.

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SAM has couple of bloater buttons. Shoha 1 and 2. (Their dmg could be added somewhere else). Third Eye, Cure 1 and so on.
Removing Kaiten is stupid since its their core ability.

Please don't go ahead with these changes 14 developers. I know it may seem like a unnecessary button but it means a lot to the feel of play for a lot of us samurai out there.

If looking cool is all that mattered, we'd still have Power Slash and Grenado Shot and a bunch of other cool lookin' skills.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

The difference between healer and Kaiten is what the button represents. I call it mechanical flavor, or finger aestheics. And one of my big problems with healers is that their DPS skills - the buttons that you press most in content, generally lack that flavor.

I'd compare Kaiten to GNB's Continuation. The removal of that skill would free up a button, and make burst window boss movement less silly. But for those who enjoy the mechanical flavor of the skill, being unable to "pull the trigger" sucks.

SAM may or may not play well after the changes. But people lamenting that SAM has gotten more bland are not wrong for feeling that way.

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That is an excellent comparison. The logic of "just roll Kaiten potency into the Iaijutsu" can be applied to Continuation just as easily. Simply roll Continuation potency into Burst Strike and the Renzokuken combo and you've reduced button bloat on GNB. But you've also killed the "fun" of being able to "pull the trigger" as you so aptly put it.

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Originally Posted by Irenia

The difference between healer and Kaiten is what the button represents. I call it mechanical flavor, or finger aestheics. And one of my big problems with healers is that their DPS skills - the buttons that you press most in content, generally lack that flavor.

I'd compare Kaiten to GNB's Continuation. The removal of that skill would free up a button, and make burst window boss movement less silly. But for those who enjoy the mechanical flavor of the skill, being unable to "pull the trigger" sucks.

SAM may or may not play well after the changes. But people lamenting that SAM has gotten more bland are not wrong for feeling that way.

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I was talking about nuSMN there, not kaiten.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

That sounds like a pretty good future to be honest. Complexity for the sake of complexity doesn't add anything of value to the game and new summoner is some of the most fun I've had in a while.

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Totally agreed. Pre-EW, I didn't bother touching Monk or Sum cuz they were annoying to play with. Post-EW, they are now my more frequently-played classes.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

See you in 6.2 when they delete positionals and *************people************* here defend it.
Can't wait until sam gets its own shitty 2 minute raid buff, the final homogenization.

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I'm at the point where I really don't care if they stay or go. They don't really add anything to the game and true north basically blankets over any situation where I could possibly lose out on a positional from a mechanic on top of the fact a lot of bosses now don't even require them anyways.

If they are here in 7.0 then neat. If not....meh nothing really changes imo. Stepping 2inches right or left of a giant ring is hardly high skill ceiling.