Please reconsider phase changes that heavily disadvantage players

I actually like having phases that can overlap if you dps too hard/not hard enough. It makes the fight feel more organic and forces players to be more aware of their party members. Of course this tends to identify the players in your party who aren't really pulling their weight but it wouldn't be a problem if ARR had more collaborative utility actions. As others have mentioned, you are pretty cemented into your role and don't really have ways to help others with theirs.

Its hilarious to see some people trying to bash the OP by saying that they can't hold their dps or aggro. If you can clear the fight, holding dps is nothing but a minor annoyance. Right now for t7, we're spending more time waiting for voice to go off at 80% than we are bringing her down from 100% to 82%. As players get more geared, the time waiting will increase.

It's more irritating than a "mechanic" that will wipe you if you are stupid enough not to watch your aggro bar, not to mention that this phenomenon is a consequence of a badly designed fight. There are many games out there with bosses that phase change that don't run into this problem

There is a big difference between holding aggro because you are surpassing the tank in threat and holding aggro because the boss uses an instant wipe ability at the wrong time.

People complain about fights being just mindlessly knocking out their rotations.
People complain about fights punishing them for mindlessly knocking out their rotations.

But-t.. but.. mah deeps!1

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

Coil 2 punishes you greatly for being over geared.

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I beg to differ. Coil 2 becomes -much- easier when you overgear it. Echo will make it even simpler.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

He's not wrong. Fights are not all about maintaining the maximum amount of DPS your class can dish out from start to finish. Raiding is about controlling the encounter via various mechanics and if one of those mechanic requires you to tone down your DPS, then that's what you do. Fight mechanics are not meant to be advantageous to everyone nor be something people even like. Heck, if people would have their way, we'd have mostly Patchwerk-esque encounters.

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^ Exactly what the person I quoted said.

Have you seen the videos of the full party of Black Mages burning Moogle (Hard) in about 2 minutes (and it lasted that long because of how the first phase work, if not that instance would have lasted 15 seconds.) These "annoying" checkpoints will ensure that no matter your ilvl, you respect the design of the encounter and learn the fight instead of pushing through it with an overgeared character.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

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Your post can be pretty much summarized by the want of mechanics that people can enjoy while being challenging. The thing is this: what people enjoy and what is considered fun is entirely subjective. Halting or slowing down DPS is a mechanic that's been in MMO for a long time and honestly, it's not a half bad mechanic because it prevents people just zerging specifics encounter to bypass other mechanics therefore making the fight entirely trivial. It's not that big of an issue either. Just wait a little, transition correctly, then continue to DPS.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

You're wasting your time here, some of these people are used to XI's trash combat system, where tanks had no proper tanking tools and people had to sit around to not get aggro.

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Yeah, I don't say that often but I agree with Tupsi here. You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Would be more believable if "control the fight" didn't translate directly into "artificially limit your dps."

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Let's say a BLM engage the fight with a triple Flare, thus doing his maximum DPS, getting aggro from the tank immediately and dying as a result.

Would you say he's doing "well" and that "artificially limiting his DPS" is a bad thing ?

In Turn 5, by DPS at the right time, you can synchronize conflag with death sentence, so that the tank can dodge everyone of them. That's something to impove the fight.

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Originally Posted by Edli

That's why I said that pushing phases at the wrong time is what punishes you not neccesarly only high DPS because if your group really had high DPS you wouldn't even have this problem.

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Eh, it's more like having weird dps that kills you. Like, values 1-50 are good, 51-70 kills you, and 70-100 is good again. I'm just asking for some other type of mechanic to force DPS to pay attention, because I don't find standing around making sure we hit the safe zone to be fun. >_>

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Halting or slowing down DPS is a mechanic that's been in MMO for a long time and honestly, it's not a half bad mechanic because it prevents people just zerging specifics encounter to bypass other mechanics therefore making the fight entirely trivial.

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Except they can:

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Straight up if you are still getting a second honey when most people are in i110 your DPS is bad and you are getting punished for bad DPS not good DPS. I have not seen a second honey for at least 4 months. Same with t7 we just go full throttle and find that the phasing works out fine.

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I mean, that's kinda the problem. If your dps naturally falls into one of the safe bands, you'll never even notice the mechanic. Most people won't see it until they start getting either better gear or more comfortable with the fight/rotation/whathaveyou. And then at some point they'll realize they can blast straight through the mechanic without caring again.

I mean, I complained about Levi X having an HP% enrage when it came out, but at least there's no dps number high enough to blast past his enrage.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Let's say a BLM engage the fight with a triple Flare, thus doing his maximum DPS, getting aggro from the tank immediately and dying as a result.

Would you say he's doing "well" and that "artificially limiting his DPS" is a bad thing ?

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I could've sworn I'd already cleared up that letting the tank establish aggro is cool, but apparently I haven't in this thread. So, let me do that now:

Slowing dps so your tank can establish hate is what any good dps should be doing. If you don't, I'm going to ask the healer to let you die. >_>

That being said, you're using one mechanic to defend a vastly different mechanic. . .

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

>_> Oh no, you actually have to pay attention and not just bash buttons? See my sig

There's a thing called "stop attacking when it gets around the %" not "keep beating on it and complain when you wipe"

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This x1000. Phase changes happen at specific healthbar percentages, if you need to stop DPS, then stop the DPS. Blaming SE because you can't be bothered to tell the group to hold damage seems like a misdiagnosis of the issue.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Eh, it's more like having weird dps that kills you. Like, values 1-50 are good, 51-70 kills you, and 70-100 is good again. I'm just asking for some other type of mechanic to force DPS to pay attention, because I don't find standing around making sure we hit the safe zone to be fun. >_>

I mean, that's kinda the problem. If your dps naturally falls into one of the safe bands, you'll never even notice the mechanic. Most people won't see it until they start getting either better gear or more comfortable with the fight/rotation/whathaveyou. And then at some point they'll realize they can blast straight through the mechanic without caring again.

I mean, I complained about Levi X having an HP% enrage when it came out, but at least there's no dps number high enough to blast past his enrage.

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Except that it isn't a problem. It might not be fun to throttle but it is necessary to a degree in certain encounters. A couple of people not finding a certain mechanic fun doesn't inherently mean that it should be changed. It means that these people should just get over something that trivial.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Slowing dps so your tank can establish hate is what any good dps should be doing. If you don't, I'm going to ask the healer to let you die. >_>

That being said, you're using one mechanic to defend a vastly different mechanic. . .

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Knowing when to DPS is what any good DPS shoud be doing, regardless of "why".

Knowing when to hold DPS, by saving damage boost for precise timing is also what any good DPS shoud be doing.
In fact, I'm sure we can find a lot of situations where "doing maximum" is not the same as "doing well"

After all, a PLD needs to know when he has to save his CD skills, thus taking more damage for some phases, and holding his WS when he needs to pop a quick Stun.
A healer needs to know his healing potency, so that he don't overheal and thus waste his precious MP.

Do you see them complaining about how they can't mindlessy mash buttons ? No.
Only the DPS have the right to not pay attention...except they don't.