Monks very weak. Need rebalance

there is no way a monk can beat a bard in dps right you can test it with parse

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

there is no way a monk can beat a bard in dps right you can test it with parse

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Personal anecdotes are useless for everyone.
There's another Monk in this thread saying the exact opposite of you, that monk is competitive and all the way through to turn 5 in coil, but he provided some base numbers (DPS on turn 4) whereas you provide nothing.

i can bring results for AK runs and CM speed runs.

cant do it for coil becouse no one is looking for monk for coil even dragoons having trouble but partys take dragoon over monk. Server cerberus.

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Originally Posted by Onyxys

Greetings. I think, that monks are the weakest DPS class in the game. For example my critical hits on level 50 with GC-weapon and some DL gear are almost always beyond 300 (260-280). Dragoons make much more damage and have very good AoE- monk not. Yes, I know about Dragon kick and Greeased lightning and yes- Im playing only monk and know this class rather good. So, I want developers rebalance monks and some of their skills- for example skill "Shoulder Tackle" is very stupid and unusable because of it LONG cool down and stupid condition of use. Thank you

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Are you even utilizing a set rotation to switch forms CORRECTLY and moving from behind and flank on fights? You're gimping yourself otherwise. As said previously, you are meant to put out quick, rapid-fire damage. If you're interested in seeing big numbers in pretty lights, roll a BLK Mage or Dragoon (But before you do I'd advise you to re-look at skill/spell speed and cast times)

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

i can bring results for AK runs and CM speed runs.

cant do it for coil becouse no one is looking for monk for coil even dragoons having trouble but partys take dragoon over monk. Server cerberus.

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Lel.

/10char

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Originally Posted by NRhodes

Are you even utilizing a set rotation to switch forms CORRECTLY and moving from behind and flank on fights? You're gimping yourself otherwise. As said previously, you are meant to put out quick, rapid-fire damage. If you're interested in seeing big numbers in pretty lights, roll a BLK Mage or Dragoon (But before you do I'd advise you to re-look at skill/spell speed and cast times)

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Yes, I know monk's skills pretty good

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

i can bring results for AK runs and CM speed runs.

cant do it for coil becouse no one is looking for monk for coil even dragoons having trouble but partys take dragoon over monk. Server cerberus.

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Completly agree monk is very hard to find a group. People are not fool. They know which job is strong. monk has very less population at moment but still very hard to find group.
I will call design fail on monk. Here is the order for which job is easy find group at end game content.
whm=snm>pal>bard>snm>Blm>war>dragoon>monk

If you are the monk who haven't get relic weapon yet. I would suggest you don't try.go other class. in the Titan hard, most time monk show lowest DPS. come people play monk get half DPS as bard did with equity gear.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Here is the order for which job is easy find group at end game content.
whm=snm>pal>bard>snm>Blm>war>dragoon>monk

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For those that have end-game experience, is this guy right or just overstating his opinion?

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Originally Posted by xRitzx

For those that have end-game experience, is this guy right or just overstating his opinion?

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He's wrong. WHM = SCH, not SMN.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

He's wrong. WHM = SCH, not SMN.

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What about DPS? I'm wanting to make a DPS class to be more diverse. I'm leaning towards black mage or monk.

even in coils ppl take 2 pal over 1 warrior

We do coil with a warrior np. Ppl make a bigger deal out of it than It is.

We generally use: war, pld, mnk, smn, brd, brd/blm, whm, sch

here OP lets fucking leave it here, stop playing the class, you've seen how many people say the class is fine its just your rotation? i can start posting every single boss parser (with boss name) to show you that monks PvE are beast. sure its harder, but some people enjoy that.... i know i do o.O you saying that monks need a rebalance is just a slap in the face : / go play BLM if you just wanna see big #s

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Originally Posted by FreyjaMists

here OP lets fucking leave it here, stop playing the class, you've seen how many people say the class is fine its just your rotation? i can start posting every single boss parser (with boss name) to show you that monks PvE are beast. sure its harder, but some people enjoy that.... i know i do o.O you saying that monks need a rebalance is just a slap in the face : / go play BLM if you just wanna see big #s

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Thank you. The guy and many others are not even aware that monk has more of a skill ceiling than they can even think of which makes it bad. Like I said in my previous post, please, don't ruin a game because of your badness.

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Originally Posted by FreyjaMists

here OP lets fucking leave it here, stop playing the class, you've seen how many people say the class is fine its just your rotation? i can start posting every single boss parser (with boss name) to show you that monks PvE are beast. sure its harder, but some people enjoy that.... i know i do o.O you saying that monks need a rebalance is just a slap in the face : / go play BLM if you just wanna see big #s

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you can start with your rotation

A lot of people in this thread that are saying that Monks are bad in PvE have little to no endgame experience. I've done everything from Ifrit all the way to Turn 5 on Monk. We just cleared turns 1-4 again today and did a Titan party for some random pug. One shotted everything and I made sure to record the DPS meter. Monks are a very high skill ceiling DPS that takes a lot of work to play. If you are not up to par, play Bard. I will not say that Bard takes no skill, quite the contrary, but it's easier and a lot more forgiving compared to Monk.

Let's start with a simple baseline fight. Titan
Titan DPS

Then moving onto Turn 1 snake fight.
Turn 1: Caduceus DPS

*Bard here fed the snakes slimes before the split and just DPS'd the rest of the time. The Black Mage had to kite one slime to the snake. I've had to move out of the way during the split so the tanks could get them into position without me getting in the way of the frontal cone.

Then finally the Turn 4 fight which will test your group to the limit.
Turn 4: Elevator DPS

*This is a highly mobile fight where you are moving from wave to wave of mobs.

As you can see, Monk is very competitive in almost every single piece of endgame there is. Even before I had gotten my first couple ilvl 90 Allagan, Monk has put up consistent results. People saying that Monks are bad have not posted any solid evidence. I've posted my evidence to the contrary. So please, feel free to keep saying Monks are bad, I won't say no to a buff!

SHH Risbyn, stop giving people the idea that we are actually the BEST DPS CLASS END GAME. They need to continue thinking we are weak and broken so they keep complaining and give us a buff to make us even stronger. lul

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

DPS

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Any chance of getting a detailed parse of your own damage? Your gear is pretty insane (multi-melded HQ crafted items) and monk scaling atm is the best in the game. Your crit rate in these parses seems very high as well, even with Bootshine and Internal release a 25% crit rate seems super high.
What food do you use?

Rysbyn is right: MNKs can be competitive in quite a few fights. But we need a few tweaks and some polish to really become consistently competitive.

PS - please indicate if you used LB in those fights. Because if you did, we need to subtract 25-30 DPS on each of those values.

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Originally Posted by FreyjaMists

here OP lets fucking leave it here, stop playing the class, you've seen how many people say the class is fine its just your rotation? i can start posting every single boss parser (with boss name) to show you that monks PvE are beast. sure its harder, but some people enjoy that.... i know i do o.O you saying that monks need a rebalance is just a slap in the face : / go play BLM if you just wanna see big #s

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Surre you're the best DPS w/o even having proper full DL and/or Relic +1

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Originally Posted by FreyjaMists

here OP lets fucking leave it here, stop playing the class, you've seen how many people say the class is fine its just your rotation? i can start posting every single boss parser (with boss name) to show you that monks PvE are beast. sure its harder, but some people enjoy that.... i know i do o.O you saying that monks need a rebalance is just a slap in the face : / go play BLM if you just wanna see big #s

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Did you play Tera? I did, and I was playing by warrior- I was a very nice warrior. That is why I choosed monk- I have enough skills to play by this class. I know how to move, my reaction is the best, I know monk's rotation- be sure, So dont think, please, that Im stupid

I repeat once more- I think, that monk as melee DD class as compared with other DD classes weak and need to be rebalanced

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Originally Posted by enil

Any chance of getting a detailed parse of your own damage? Your gear is pretty insane (multi-melded HQ crafted items) and monk scaling atm is the best in the game. Your crit rate in these parses seems very high as well, even with Bootshine and Internal release a 25% crit rate seems super high.
What food do you use?

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The actual parse is gone, these are just screenshots. I'll upload a detailed one later when we go do something like Titan. Or I can just do a quick dummy test. As for food, I use Buttons in a Blanket.

Also, these are specifically non-LB numbers because I knew people would ask this.

Monks are indeed pretty beast as is. I have 1 piece of DL (ring) and a few pieces from AK. Everything else is AF gear and I'm using my Grand Company weapon. I'll admit, I was struggling to put out decent dps; however, another monk helped me out a bit and we've been theory crafting ever since. Now, I can easily pull 130-140+ dps on a boss fight - non-LB numbers. I even hit 162 on Hydra last night; however, I don't have any proof of that right now, but I'd be willing to upload pictures of the parser when I get home later today.

I can only imagine this dps going way up once I get more DL gear and as my weapon improves.
It's all in the rotation.

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Originally Posted by roflcaust

Rysbyn is right: MNKs can be competitive in quite a few fights. But we need a few tweaks and some polish to really become consistently competitive.

PS - please indicate if you used LB in those fights. Because if you did, we need to subtract 25-30 DPS on each of those values.

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I wouldn't be against a few tweaks and polish at all. Everyone could use some quality of life tweaks. However, the people saying that Monks are "weak" are people who are not being honest with themselves as far as their playstyle/skill goes. There was a reason why Monk's Fist of Fire was reduced to 5% damage from 10% and it wasn't because the developers felt Monks were weak. The real numbers say otherwise. Does this mean that I want people to stack Monk? Of course not, that would never work. I'm advocating that a balanced party of Ranged/Magic/Melee will get through all content in the game if they are good enough. We have a Monk in the Free Company that solo silenced Turn 2 ADS because they didn't have any Bards on. It is up to individual performance if they're a hindrance to the party or not. Not the Class/Job.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

I wouldn't be against a few tweaks and polish at all. Everyone could use some quality of life tweaks. However, the people saying that Monks are "weak" are people who are not being honest with themselves as far as their playstyle/skill goes. There was a reason why Monk's Fist of Fire was reduced to 5% damage from 10% and it wasn't because the developers felt Monks were weak. The real numbers say otherwise. Does this mean that I want people to stack Monk? Of course not, that would never work. I'm advocating that a balanced party of Ranged/Magic/Melee will get through all content in the game if they are good enough. We have a Monk in the Free Company that solo silenced Turn 2 ADS because they didn't have any Bards on. It is up to individual performance if they're a hindrance to the party or not. Not the Class/Job.

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can you show your rotation?

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

can you show your rotation?

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I'll do you one better, I'll post a portion of my Monk Guide I worked on for my Free Company. Gimme a moment to edit.

Boss Fight Rotation



Preliminary Rotation



Start on Boss's flank. This is how you should start every boss fight unless there is a DPS check part of the fight in which case you should save this rotation for when the DPS check happens.

This will start you off with full stacked Greased Lightning as well as +10% Damage before you move onto your Primary Rotation.

Remember to eat food and use Fists of Fire.

Touch of Death

Activate Perfect Balance

Snap Punch(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank) -> Demolish
Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

2. Primary Rotation

Personally, I do like using Blood for Blood + Internal Release upon the first application of Demolish/Touch of Death in the Primary Rotation so that they tick for harder.Otherwise, use Blood for Blood/Internal Release on cooldown at your discretion. Refresh Touch of Death when it falls off, preferably when you're fully buffed. Keep in mind that Touch of Death and Demolish DoTs will not refresh if it's weaker than what's already on the mob. So if you've popped Blood for Blood and did Touch of Death, a non-buffed Touch of Death will not override the buffed one.

This rotation assumes at least 491 Skill Speed and full stacked Greased Lightning. Otherwise, replace all instances of True Strike with Twin Snakes. The reason for this is because if you have less than 491 Skill Speed + fully stacked Greased Lightning, your Twin Snakes 10% damage buff will fall off when using True Strike.

Touch of Death (ONLY start if you don't do the preliminary rotation)

Dragon Kick(Flank)[Bootshine if this is your second cycle] -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish (This overrides the one you used in the Preliminary Rotation because Demolish in the Preliminary does not apply the final stack of Greased Lightning to the DoT)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Demolish

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

There is a window in which Demolish hasn't worn off yet and your Demolish rotation is up. In which case, you would use Snap Punch and use Demolish in the following rotation.

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT DPS

You MUST be able to use your Weapon Skill in the positions stated on the Weapon Skill. It's okay to miss a couple because of AoE or dodging, but it's a huge DPS loss if you stand in one position and never move. There is some incredibly hard DPS checks in the game and being able to output the maximum amount is a must. Bosses have some tail attacks, but all tail attacks that I've seen in all content has a cooldown. You can run behind the boss, proc the tail attack, move out and then move back in to do your from behind rotation.

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I hope people finds this useful. If there's something here you disagree with, let me know and I'll explain the reasoning.

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

can you show your rotation?

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After you rush 3 stacks of greased lightning (TW = twin strike, DM = demolish),

DK
TW
TD
DM
BS
TW
FR
ID
SP
DK
TW
ID
DM
BS
TW
FR
TD
SP
DK
TW
ID
DM
BS
TW
FR
ID
SP

Rinse and repeat gg easy np.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

I'll do you one better, I'll post a portion of my Monk Guide I worked on for my Free Company. Gimme a moment to edit.

Boss Fight Rotation



Preliminary Rotation



Start on Boss's flank. This is how you should start every boss fight unless there is a DPS check part of the fight in which case you should save this rotation for when the DPS check happens.

This will start you off with full stacked Greased Lightning as well as +10% Damage before you move onto your Primary Rotation.

Remember to eat food and use Fists of Fire.

Touch of Death

Activate Perfect Balance

Snap Punch(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank) -> Demolish
Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

2. Primary Rotation

Personally, I do like using Blood for Blood + Internal Release upon the first application of Demolish/Touch of Death in the Primary Rotation so that they tick for harder.Otherwise, use Blood for Blood/Internal Release on cooldown at your discretion. Refresh Touch of Death when it falls off, preferably when you're fully buffed. Keep in mind that Touch of Death and Demolish DoTs will not refresh if it's weaker than what's already on the mob. So if you've popped Blood for Blood and did Touch of Death, a non-buffed Touch of Death will not override the buffed one.

This rotation assumes at least 491 Skill Speed and full stacked Greased Lightning. Otherwise, replace all instances of True Strike with Twin Snakes. The reason for this is because if you have less than 491 Skill Speed + fully stacked Greased Lightning, your Twin Snakes 10% damage buff will fall off when using True Strike.

Touch of Death (ONLY start if you don't do the preliminary rotation)

Dragon Kick(Flank) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish (This overrides the one you used in the Preliminary Rotation because Demolish in the Preliminary does not apply the final stack of Greased Lightning to the DoT)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Demolish

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

There is a window in which Demolish hasn't worn off yet and your Demolish rotation is up. In which case, you would use Snap Punch and use Demolish in the following rotation.

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT DPS

You MUST be able to use your Weapon Skill in the positions stated on the Weapon Skill. It's okay to miss a couple because of AoE or dodging, but it's a huge DPS loss if you stand in one position and never move. There is some incredibly hard DPS checks in the game and being able to output the maximum amount is a must. Bosses have some tail attacks, but all tail attacks that I've seen in all content has a cooldown. You can run behind the boss, proc the tail attack, move out and then move back in to do your from behind rotation.

___________________________________

I hope people finds this useful. If there's something here you disagree with, let me know and I'll explain the reasoning.

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Nice spamming of Dragon Kick when it only need to be used every 3 Rotations, like Demolish

Thanks thats really helpful, I think a lot of people are having trouble with the rotation coupled with the required movement.

Do you not use impulse drive or fracture at all? Would it not be possible to replace true strike with impulse drive? Its much greater potency I feel outweighs the 5% chance to crit.

Or drop true strike and weave in impulse drive between your back to flank movements?

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

I'll do you one better, I'll post a portion of my Monk Guide I worked on for my Free Company. ......
I hope people finds this useful. If there's something here you disagree with, let me know and I'll explain the reasoning.

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This information is gold for any wannabe Monk dps (like me)....but it kind of prove the OP's point...
This looks insanely difficult...
If this is the thing to do to be on par with a range class dps no wonder why monks are not wanted in parties... The average player (me included) won't be able to do this. So giving you can't bet your next PUG will be a top notch dps player, better choose a ranged player that will do the same damage output with a more simple rotation and average player skills.

IMO you should be able to use a subpar rotations (keeping the same positioning for example) and still be on par with range DPS. and of course for hardcore like you seem to be blow up the meter when you perform the rotation perfectly...

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Nice spamming of Dragon Kick when it only need to be used every 3 Rotations, like Demolish

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So ... please show us your rotation.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Nice spamming of Dragon Kick when it only need to be used every 3 Rotations, like Demolish

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Every 3 Rotations? Please do not do that. Dragon Kick falls off if you don't do it every 2nd rotation and you lose your debuff on the target. The first Dragon Kick in the starter rotation is there because it's the highest potency. It won't even apply the debuff on the target until the second Dragon Kick because you're not in Opo-opo form. I should probably edit in that the first Dragon Kick should be Bootshine when you cycle back to the start since I think that's where you're getting the "spamming dragon kick". I'll edit it in a second.

Risbyn thanks for coming to help. When I come in here people don't listen. Onyxys still believes hes gods gift to earth and no one can be better than him when he's blatantly bad. lol his last post is golden.

ps he played a class on tera..a very skill required game.

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Originally Posted by LenLeander

IMO you should be able to use a subpar rotations (keeping the same positioning for example) and still be on par with range DPS. and of course for hardcore like you seem to be blow up the meter when you perform the rotation perfectly...

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You can.

Using DK>Twin>Snap with keeping demolish and ToD/Fracture up as much as possible you can still keep up and even out dps every other class in the game on endgame fights.

Alot of people are posting the max potency rotations but it isn't really that viable in Coil and 1 mistake with those max potency rotations and you lose any gain you get from using them over the simple flank only combo, go fight a dummy fraps it and rewatch while writing down the numbers into a spread sheet, do that for multiple different rotations and you will see that the difference between a flank only rotation, a BS+true + flank rotation, and a rotation using impulse drive is at most about 3-4 dps difference.

So if you want to know what the problem with monk is right now its the fact there isn't enough of a reason to use the max potency rotation because it simply doesn't reward you enough for the extra effort you put in.

Also personally playing monk through every turn of coil i don't use fracture or impulse simply because i take as many defensive cross class abilities as possible, until you have coil fully on farm the defensive cooldowns are far better than the small amount of extra damage you might be able to gain.

Thanks Risbyn for sharing your rotation. I have added Fracture after Demolish and it works really well.

I´ve done Risbyns rotation on a dummy and my dps is 183.

if i dont use dots my dps is 220-230? this must be wrong i think my parse is not counting dot crits or something

my gear is full Dark Light wich relic weapon and my legs are lvl 90

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Demolish

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

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As a general observation you do not describe where Touch of Death is in that cycle.


In any case, it's easier if you re-write it as:

BS - TR - DM - TD
DK - TW - SP
BS - TR - SP

DK - TW - DM - FR
BS - TR - SP
DK - TW - SP


In terms of explaining the concepts for folks in general, basically the DK+TW pair and the BS+TR pair alternate in a 1212 fashion. The DM and SP alternate in a 112 fashion. The TD is used every 6 cycles. Injecting FR is a DPS increase, and you can inject it into the same pattern as you use TD. So it makes a convenient cycle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

Thanks thats really helpful, I think a lot of people are having trouble with the rotation coupled with the required movement.

Do you not use impulse drive or fracture at all? Would it not be possible to replace true strike with impulse drive? Its much greater potency I feel outweighs the 5% chance to crit.

Or drop true strike and weave in impulse drive between your back to flank movements?

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Using Impulse Drive will not allow you to shift forms and costs you a GCD to move into your next form, not to mention the highest TP cost barring Touch of Death and Touch of Death has a much higher potency. Weaving Impulse Drive means you're not moving into forms to do more Bootshines. Impulse Drive will net you a DPS loss and TP starvation even with Invigorate.
Here, it's easier to see with numbers. Take a very simple rotation with Impulse drive 7 GCDs vs a simple rotation without Impulse Drive but with True Strike. This isn't even counting the True Strike 5% chance to crit.

Bootshine - Impulse Drive - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch
130(195) 180 140 180
Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch
150 140 180
_______________________________________________
1165 total potency over 7 GCDs

Bootshine - True Strike - Snap Punch
130(195) 150 180
Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch
150 140 180
Bootshine
130(195)
________________________________________
1190 total potency over 7 GCDs

Fracture is a different story. If you have enough Skill Speed, you can actually weave this into your rotation and net a DPS gain but at the cost of, again, TP starvation. So I have used Fracture before but didn't want to post it in the actual rotation and have people use it thinking that it's the best way. You'd need to use it smartly. Do not use it in quick fights or any fights that are longer than 5 minutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

I´ve done Risbyns rotation on a dummy and my dps is 183.

if i dont use dots my dps is 220-230? this must be wrong i think my parse is not counting dot crits or something

my gear is full Dark Light wich relic weapon and my legs are lvl 90

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There is a bug with DoTs in the parser. Use 1 ToD and record the numbers and watch your parser tick. I've seen parser DoT on my ToD for 9 damage each tick on the parser before. I've said before, parser results are wildly varying.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

As a general observation you do not describe where Touch of Death is in that cycle.


In any case, it's easier if you re-write it as:

BS - TR - DM - TD
DK - TW - SP
BS - TR - SP

DK - TW - DM - FR
BS - TR - SP
DK - TW - SP


In terms of explaining the concepts for folks in general, basically the DK+TW pair and the BS+TR pair alternate in a 1212 fashion. The DM and SP alternate in a 112 fashion. The TD is used every 6 cycles. Injecting FR is a DPS increase, and you can inject it into the same pattern as you use TD. So it makes a convenient cycle.

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Yea, I know, I tried to make the guide as easy as possible to follow. I don't use a rotation for my ToD because you'll come to instances where you'll be clipping your ToD and it will not override it on the chance the first ToD was buffed. That's a wasted GCD, I only apply it when it falls off and use Twin Snakes instead of True Strikes in that rotation so I keep the 10% damage buff. I definately want people using Fracture but use it sparingly because it's such a huge TP sink. When your TP hits 0 (which I've done before because I wasn't paying attention to my Fracture usage) you do no damage and your overall DPS hurt. But it's good for that extra OOMPH you need in a semi-long fight.

That rotation is only a part of my guide, I should probably make a new thread and post the full guide here soon.