Gear level, the final nail in the games coffin.

@ Op, can I have your stuff before you quit, only gear level 90 please

I'm going to reserve judgement on this until I see it for myself. If it is simply a guide outlining minimum recommended gear levels for a fight/dungeon, then it's no big deal (even less so if no one else can see it). It doesn't seem likely that Yoshi would OK something like Matsui did (rather badly) in Seekers of Adoulin.

As far as the elitists go, they're going to be d-bags whether or not this is implemented. Best to blacklist them and keep it moving.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Welp.

Now people will be even more elitist.
but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

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There is a difference between being elite and wanting to win the instance you are placed in. If you are doing 50 content with subpar gear you are just holding everyone back.

What 11 did you play? You weren't doing any significant endgame if you had terrible gear, people weren't there to have fun, they were there to win.

I wonder if you are one of those people who queue for AK in full af.... sounds like it.

I just have one question, who do you guys think are the elitist in this game? The new people? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA Ok I'm done. Its the XI players, who quit XI a while ago, came to XIV during 1.0, stayed there. End of 1.0 the only people left were elitists and people like me who stayed cause it had the best damn crafting and gathering system. XI people were the same people kicking people out of parties for not having good enough gear, they are the same people doing it now. They just taught other non xi players how to do it. For those of you who left 1.0 early, or who didn't play, 1.0 was a cesspool for XI elitists, the types that quit before Treasures of Aht Urghan because 'they completed the game", losers irl basically. Don't let elitists get to you, playing video games is all they're good at, they have no real life talents, you would laugh at how pathetic their real life is.

Honestly, on a more on topic note, this system eliminates some of the elitism, elitist can only be elitist if the knowledge of how to be "broken" (geared out for the not in the know) is fairly unknown. IF suddenly you're queuing up and it says "need ilevel 70" bam, there you have it, you know what gear to go get to do this. With duty finder, the internet, and other conveniences, they only difference between elitist and normal players are, elitist did it first, put up the youtube video, and we all copied em, its not a wide gap.

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Originally Posted by Tigerwong

Apart from 1017. :D

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if you still geting error 1017...there is something wrong with ur internet

@op

I had many cases were i went to AK and people had dps lower than tank mainly due to gear, why should i suffer because some people dont like to farm for their gear and want other to carry them. i dont mind carrying people with bad dps but certainly not lower than tank especially because of gear.

bottom line this will make it easier to get good groups and not people who make others do the work for them

How is it any different then XI? In XI you had to have certain gear to make things easier.. ridill.. k-club.. thf knife.. relic.. just to name a few.. the same people that say you need 65+ GL stuff are the same people that would kick you for not having good rings/earrings in XI.. pointless argument because unless all gear has the same stats then you will ALWAYS have this argument weather the game say GL70 or not.. Without GL it would just turn into Tank needed(Full Darklight/Ifrit or higher weapon).. Instead of complaining on the boards go find a LS that wont mind running Amdapor while you tank in cobalt armor because you were too lazy to get AF..

Final nail? What were the other ones? I am curious now.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Sorry if you wanted to play RDM/WAR and melee things with 15% ACC in level 10 gear against level 50 enemies and make the exp/hour drop by 30-50%.

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Eh? I wasn't complaining about it or saying that I didn't participate in it or stuff like that I was just setting the poster straight on what kind of game FFXI was.

I like the gearscore thingy for the same reason everyone hates it perhaps. Its a goal post. You look at the number and go... *sigh* Not high enough to have the DF let me in. I need to grind my brains out in that other place to get better.

Finally you reach that number and you give a happy sigh of relief. Now I can run that DF without people thrashing me for it. Or at least not as badly as before.

A goal post. A point to reach and strive for. Its better than having nothing to go on. Without it you have dumb luck or hateful jerks to contend with. Such things are unfun. Well Dumb Luck can be fun but most often than not its an hour of frustration and hairpulling trying to figure out what the heck you are lacking. In Longstop I, my group's tank, was the issue. Not our DPS and not our healer. It was I with terrible gear. After several runs of good luck drops in the tank gear department there we were right as rain. An ilvl (and those tank pieces to drop earlier) could have spared us the heart ache when facing that last baddie. XD

I really don't understand the rage in this game concerning other players. My LS is full of casual players that help each other all the time. If you are going through the whole game with PUG's and saying things like "this game is doomed..." you are doing it wrong. Help some people do things that don't directly benefit you, make some friends, join an LS with like minded people and proceed. Its really not that hard to make friends and find people who share your values. Literally everything that people like the OP are complaining about can be solved by making some friends and joining an LS that fits your play style. Believe it or not, their are TONS of people playing this game who are more than willing to help you learn or gear up and who aren't just concerned with gear score and completing everything as fast as they can...

I hate the elitism that this brings but I also in turn hate it more that ignorant people expect to just press buttons and win with no thought put into updating their abilities or equipment. This is a good thing.

Will we see shouts about gear levels now? Yeah, probably. But they'll only replace the vague words like 'veteran' and 'well-geared' terms people are using now. At least people will be able to formulate gear goals instead of going into something completely ignorant to what they might need to accomplish it.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Ehhh AK is doable with af. Asking for more than af from pugs for AK is the kind of elitism OP is talking about.

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So much this. I cleared AK my first time in nothing but AF with an Ifrit weapon. I've gotten a few pieces of Darklight since, but it's really not that hard. It's just a simple DPS race in the end. If you're avoiding needless movements and DPSing as much as possible it'll go smoothly.

For those opposed to this: have you ever run Amdapor with people who aren't even in AF gear and using level 30 weapons? Demon Wall is not a fun fight with that setup, I can tell you that.

I don't think SE is dumb enough to say "you must have 3 pieces of Darklight and a Garuda weapon to pug Amdapor!" I think the gearscore requirement is more so you don't see people trying Titan hard with level 44 vendor weapons and wondering why they can't kill the heart fast enough.

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Originally Posted by XodoK

Final nail? What were the other ones? I am curious now.

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Beat me to the punch on that one. I'm fine w/ GS being in for DF groups, it might cut down on some of the current DF drama, even if only to replace it with new and improved DF drama.

I just hope that the system lets fully pre-made groups bypass the GS rating. If me and 7 of my friends want to try difficult content in not-so-up-to-par gear, that's our choice.

A minimum gear requirement by itself is a good thing. Ampador Keep is doable with a group of fresh 50's in AF armor, but it requires coordination and skill that many pugs just don't have. The class composition of your party can also come into play. Gear score becomes bad when players themselves basically start requiring you to have the gear from the dungeon in order to run the dungeon. Now, if you want to form up your own group and spam shout for people over whatever ilevel, then you have every right to do so and I wouldn't necessarily consider that elitist. However, if you use the duty finder to random group and then are a jerk to the people in your group because they don't have the ilevel you do, or the ilevel -you- expect, when they can clearly do the dungeon otherwise... that's just silly on your part, and I'd say elitist.

I Kinda hate this also...While i do have level 70-80 gear for my main jobs maybe more darksteel and weapon fully materia. But still it doesnt matter it just puts up a nice wall like you aren't good enough...i dont know just dont like that idea very much if i was new i think it would be a turn off.

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Originally Posted by Dixa

based on what 100% accurate damage parsing method, exactly?

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Probably using a parser? They are available already.

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Originally Posted by Dad

Gear score is completely fine if it is internal and can't be seen by other players, the system is possibly being put in place so you can't enter level 50 raids/dungeons with gear that is 20 levels below you. If it is external though, get ready to welcome in the elitism that people are mentioning. I personally love internal gear score (being used for duty finder and things like that) and hate external gear score (something you can view while examining a character).

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^ This and Suellen's post on page 7.

If it's just like that quest when you had to put on Gear for level 5, otherwise the quest icon would be locked red, then I think it is perfectly fine.
Don't get me wrong though. I am not against this, I just have the strange feeling that people will start using this score on content it actually isn't needed for :/

I think its needed honestly. I haven't reached endgame yet, but I know I'd be aggravated if I waited to get into HM Titan only to get a tank who was wearing a bunch of level 30 gear. I also like to be prepared for that kind of thing, knowing what ilvl is needed helps me figure out if I can pull my weight in a fight or if I'm simply not ready. I might be wrong, but I imagine this will be restricted to DF so you might be able to form your own group with that tank in level 30 gear.

My problem with gearscore is that you get people trying to put groups together that will refuse to take you unless you significantly outgear whatever it is you're trying to do. Of course people will always do this, I've already seen those type of shouts.

Why is everyone missing the fact that square will be setting the gear score requirement for dungeons through the duty finder?

Stop crying about "elitists". If they have to out gear the content by having a gear score required that's higher than SE's that would make them bad.

QQ more, can I have your stuff?

But no seriously, this is such a minor thing to complain about. If you think people weren't picky about your who they let in to parties in FFXI I imagine that means you didn't play it at all during it's early years. Right now the game is bustling with activity, so if you don't want to play with the kind of people who care about GL than don't.

The only people complaining about this are the ones using level 45 white weapons and level 30 jewelry while trying to leech off an AK group.

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Originally Posted by GoddessEtna

The only people complaining about this are the ones using level 45 white weapons and level 30 jewelry while trying to leech off an AK group.

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Same people also doing the same thing in Titan Hard Mode.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

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Excuse me, you are very wrong!! FFXI is notorious for being a gear checker. If you did Voidwatch or Odinv2, or anything like Nyzul Isle floor 1-100 runs... /shout REM (Relic, Empyrean, Mythic) or GTFO!! Even the XP parties before Abyssea came out was full of gear checking. You must not be referring to hardcore events, or you have been spoiled by the Adoulin expansion. Don't know where you got that "oh it's fun to win and lose mentality" from. No one on Asura's serious end-game community had that kind of attitude from what I know. You are wasting the whole alliance's time and gil/hour by losing in Dynamis and other events.

There's a reason people gear check: weed out the n00bs, and drastically reduce the chance of failing in a DPS race or damage healing.

"the final nail in the games coffin" Holy hyperbole batman, what a load of garbage.

Every pet issue for someone = END OF THE GAME!!!

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

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LOL. I literally had to quit the game because NO ONE would invite Samurai to their group unless you bought million gil sniper rings. Every class had their "You better be wearing so and so" or you won't be invited. heck every LFG advertisement was littered with, "I have this gear and this gear and that gear, please invite me". That game was the prime example of elitism.

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Then maybe we can have a nice community again, like in XI.

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I still have not forgiven them for their attitudes towards Red Mage. I'd rather not have that line of thinking dragged over here.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

I still have not forgiven them for their attitudes towards Red Mage. I'd rather not have that line of thinking dragged over here.

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Where's my Refresh dangit!!!! REFRESH!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

/facepalm

content is made with a gear level in mind so progression actually makes sense, if it wasnt this way you would just overpower everything the moment you acquire your first high level set, since by your logic there wouldnt be anything better then it.

if you want to do something harder ppl will want you to be prepared, there is nothing wrong with it.

FFXI --- good ol' times...
Blm: sorry man Sleepga 2 was too expensive didn't buy that spell, not like you NEED it amirite?
Thf: hi I'm a manthra thief just got off the boat to valkurm, single dagger no subjob invite please ^^
Rng: Ima stand on the ledge and EES Niddhogg for the claim... zomgz what are these darters... ahhh

lol I've been yelled at for not accepting a party invite when they needed a refresher. I was busy with my own thing and wasn't going to give them the time of day. Can't continue his exp party as a result of nobody else being available, or no other healing capable job around? Too bad. Not my problem.

While the majority of my ire went to the community, there still remains the rest of it which went to SE for not doing a damn thing about it, and going so far as to go along with it to an extent. It is this that has not subsided as they STILL haven't done a damn thing to specifically benefit Red Mage since I stopped playing almost 2 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Ehhh AK is doable with af. Asking for more than af from pugs for AK is the kind of elitism OP is talking about.

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It's hardly elitism to expect that somebody gets their Ifrit weapon or at least a decent GC weapon before they jump into Amdapor. Running it in your AF is fine, but not being able to pull your own weight is another story. I've had more runs than I care to count where DF has slapped me with a decent healer and garbage DD who can't put out the numbers needed to down Demon Wall.

You can have fun all you want, when you start doing level 50 content, you need good gear. It's not eliteism, in any RPG you need to upgrade your equipment to do the high level stuff. This isn't Mario, step your game up.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

lol I've been yelled at for not accepting a party invite when they needed a refresher. I was busy with my own thing and wasn't going to give them the time of day. Can't continue his exp party as a result of nobody else being available, or no other healing capable job around? Too bad. Not my problem.

While the majority of my ire went to the community, there still remains the rest of it which went to SE for not doing a damn thing about it, and going so far as to go along with it to an extent. It is this that has not subsided as they STILL haven't done a damn thing to specifically benefit Red Mage since I stopped playing almost 2 years ago.

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Psh only a RDM would complain about being spammed for invites. When I played PLD and ninja was the FOTM I never got invited. I waited 8 hours for a party once and that was regardless of having good gear. It's not until you feel the other side of it do you really understand what lonely feels like....

BUT ON THE BRIGHT SIDE! In 14 nobody wants to be a tank so it evens out now right? Except for all the lonely hours LFG as a PLD in 11. All those hours wasted, I feel cold just thinking about it.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

snip.

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when the hell did you play FFXI? cause the XI I remember had people getting ridiculed to high hell for gear they were wearing at LOW levels as well as high....gods be damned if you didnt have your O-kote or your emperors hairpin or w/e. your out of your god damn mind or flat out lying if you thought xi was any less elitist, hell XI was actually the most elitist game I ever played.... and I played the damn game for 8 years

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Originally Posted by Stryker

Psh only a RDM would complain about being spammed for invites. When I played PLD and ninja was the FOTM I never got invited. I waited 8 hours for a party once and that was regardless of having good gear. It's not until you feel the other side of it do you really understand what lonely feels like....

BUT ON THE BRIGHT SIDE! In 14 nobody wants to be a tank so it evens out now right? Except for all the lonely hours LFG as a PLD in 11. All those hours wasted, I feel cold just thinking about it.

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I feel your pain friend....in my time playing I was ont he $h14 end of the stick for every FOTM party set up lol, loldrg, lolbst, lolwhm, lolpld theyve all had their peaks and valleys at one point or another lol

Personally, I think it will do far more good than bad. Can't tell you how many dungeons I've been in with a healer in starting gear at level 40+ O.o... The problem is the duty finder breads toxicity, and this will at least enforce gear restrictions on it so we can weed out a little of that toxicity and still use Duty Finder.

And people on my server were shouting Item Level limits on entry to their FC before this change. They would calculate it themselves by adding up the level of all your gear and dividing it by X. And if they took out Item LEvels and Gear level's people would say "Must have AF+1 or DarkLight armor, X class rings, and X class Earrings". My point is you can take away the ATM, but the bank will still tell you how much money you have or don't have.

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Originally Posted by Tyrial

It's hardly elitism to expect that somebody gets their Ifrit weapon or at least a decent GC weapon before they jump into Amdapor. Running it in your AF is fine, but not being able to pull your own weight is another story. I've had more runs than I care to count where DF has slapped me with a decent healer and garbage DD who can't put out the numbers needed to down Demon Wall.

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You realize most players don't have ltn rank already and have to clear the Keep to get the ltn rank, don't you? Smh. And I'm sure (elitist) people ask for at least that for Ifrit hard too. Its a no win situation with elitists.

Don't get me wrong, I think if you decide to do hard content you should gear yourself, but if I catch someone whining at me in AK when I'm in vermillion gear with a mogaxe and two pieces of DL because I have a lvl 38 bracelet (gil issues, need to spam leves, but I'm banking on getting a ilvl 60 one in the keep), I'm leaving pt, and said pt would lose a decent tank that knows how to keep hate and knows how to avoid obvious attacks.