BIG~ mistake SE. Mighty big. (Materials Usage License)

Why should people get paid to play their product?
It's you paying them to play with their toy, not the other way around

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Originally Posted by Stebs

On another note.
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Guidelines for Music and Sounds

-You may only use music as it is incorporated in FFXIV;

-When showing gameplay, you may not replace the FFXIV music with third party music;

-You may not play FFXIV music alone (i.e., without accompanying gameplay footage), or
with third party materials;

-You may not use the song track entitled "Answers."
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That is just sad.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=authc

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Whaaaa!!? This is sad. Well, there go my plans to make my own videos!! Am I allowed to listen my own music when playing or is that a crime too haha kidding. :p

But really meh its just YouTube...you can just use twitch instead lol. Its not the same but its something!

It figures the person named after a LoL hero is the one complaining that you can't profit off recording yourself playing an MMO

Really not a big deal. If anything i'm glad SE is limiting all the terrible Youtube FF videos I'v seen. Especially the fan made FF11's (sorry if I offend)

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Whaaaa!!? This is sad. Well, there go my plans to make my own videos!! Am I allowed to listen my own music when playing or is that a crime too haha kidding. :p

But really meh its just YouTube...you can just use twitch instead lol. Its not the same but its something!

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Nope you can't its for all media usage.

Well, I know of special someone's that got nda lift permission during beta, they are monetizing their videos, is it illegal or you are trating some you tubers with special tos?

I think this restriction is non-planned, makes no sense this is not Nintendo for Christ sake... I mean not only no monetization but you can't put music over the games music? A bit too much restrictive perhaps...

And to people saying it is ok, no it is not, if you actually watch videos in YouTube, professional ones... These people most of the time make a living from this content, now the problem is they made a huge wall for this game and all content that could've been created, look at mr. Happy and xiv nation, they won't make any money from their efforts. It just seems wrong like it is now.

Lift monetization/music restrictions.

/signed

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

The solution here is really simple: if you refuse to make a video unless you can monetize it, then make a video about a different game. I'd love to hear your evidence that it's "hurting the game" meanwhile digital sales have been suspended because too many people are trying to play. FFXIV is doing just fine without you making money from videos about it. People who don't monetize their videos will be more than happy to get the views you would have had.

As for music, I'm personally thrilled about the lack of FFXIV AMVs, and death metal playing over a LP video.

Now, I'm not in favor of this measure. But I also don't see how it negatively affects the game/community.

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Problem is, it does not affect the game itself, they already got the free advertisement from all the different community content creators during beta. They even allowed some people to make videos WHICH are being monetized during BETA, so this just makes me think they are treating some people with different terms of service, which in my point of view, is not a correct thing to do.

Let me point some content creators that will be directly affected by this: YogsCast, XIV Nation (GameBreakerTV, Mr. Happy, Magic Mann), and all the streamers out there that make a living from entretaining people, will not name them because I'd never finish lol.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

I am fairly certain this will not apply to XIVnation. Firstly, this only applies to using the Youtube partner program or similar programs on other video sharing sites. GBTV does not use those programs. They have sponsors. Which is completely different. Secondly, as an internet TV channel they're professional enough to pay a licensing fee to SE to be allowed to do more things with content.

As for Mr. Happy, his video about this really annoyed me because he's ignoring that he can monetize in other ways. All he has to do is ask for donations to help fund his videos and it doesn't break this license agreement.

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I'd not be too sure of it, all YouTube videos of XIV Nation always have inside advertisement / sponsors, which is monetization. It is a huge issue for them, and I am against this. It simply is not fair for someone who lives from informing, entertaining, and such to be slapped on the face on launch. I mean, if they added this restriction before early access started I'd say, ok, they will now decide if they want to continue or not, but it was added on release, when everyone has been charged and when NDA got lifted. I mean, seriously?

I just checked it again and it does say strictly YouTube partner program and such, it will affect Mr. Happy atleast from XIV Nation, streamers I'm still not sure.

On a side note, the music restriction is plain stupid, sorry for the word, but it is.


Square Enix, I know you're all raging because people extracted information from your files, I understand it, but restricting self-content creation? seriously? next what, we can't make art of Final Fantasy because of the copyrighted material? I know the special unique database that there is of FFXIV at the moment broke into the files which shouldn't been done, but it's common, I mean hackers even get into FBI... and you seriously expect to see your files untouched? Yes, add the rules you want, but I don't see them dropping the ball because of "some rules". Sorry, that's how Internet works nowadays.

The solution here is really simple: if you refuse to make a video unless you can monetize it, then make a video about a different game. I'd love to hear your evidence that it's "hurting the game" meanwhile digital sales have been suspended because too many people are trying to play. FFXIV is doing just fine without you making money from videos about it. People who don't monetize their videos will be more than happy to get the views you would have had.

As for music, I'm personally thrilled about the lack of FFXIV AMVs, and death metal playing over a LP video.

Now, I'm not in favor of this measure. But I also don't see how it negatively affects the game/community.

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Originally Posted by Hagito

[...]look at mr. Happy and xiv nation, they won't make any money from their efforts.

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I am fairly certain this will not apply to XIVnation. Firstly, this only applies to using the Youtube partner program or similar programs on other video sharing sites. GBTV does not use those programs. They have sponsors. Which is completely different. Secondly, as an internet TV channel they're professional enough to pay a licensing fee to SE to be allowed to do more things with content.

As for Mr. Happy, his video about this really annoyed me because he's ignoring that he can monetize in other ways. All he has to do is ask for donations to help fund his videos and it doesn't break this license agreement.

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Originally Posted by Hagito

I'd not be too sure of it, all YouTube videos of XIV Nation always have inside advertisement / sponsors, which is monetization. It is a huge issue for them, and I am against this. It simply is not fair for someone who lives from informing, entertaining, and such to be slapped on the face on launch. I mean, if they added this restriction before early access started I'd say, ok, they will now decide if they want to continue or not, but it was added on release, when everyone has been charged and when NDA got lifted. I mean, seriously?

I just checked it again and it does say strictly YouTube partner program and such, it will affect Mr. Happy atleast from XIV Nation, streamers I'm still not sure.

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The way it is worded means that you can easily argue in a court of law that it applies ONLY to direct monetization based on views. Which is why I'm fairly certain it does not apply to XIV Nation. Though I don't personally know if they actually use the YouTube partner program or not, I just know they are sponsored by Audible and Netflix. Due to that I can't see them using the partner program since it is not needed.

Yes it does effect Mr. Happy, which is why he posted a video complaining about it. I just personally think he's complaining about nothing since, while he can't use that specific program, he can utilize other ways of making money. I feel like most of the whining is just about having new rules and not being able to make money without a bit more effort. It just annoys me that people are bitching about how these video makes can no longer make money off things they create and yet what SE is trying to do is make money off what they have created. Think of it this way, it would be illegal to take a movie and edit it and then charge people to view it in the "real" world wouldn't it? Same rules apply here.

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Originally Posted by Hagito

On a side note, the music restriction is plain stupid, sorry for the word, but it is.

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Now THIS I do agree with. I dislike the music restrictions as well as the mash up restrictions because it basically kills Machima for FFXIV ARR.

Intellectual property is such a scam. As are most laws passed by governments.

No one's saying that SE doesn't have a perfect legal right to do this. What people are saying (and I agree with) is that as fans of the game who want FFXIV to succeed, all but killing off grassroots marketing is a spectacularly bad idea.

I've never put a video on YouTube, much less made money off of one. But SE's lawyers and execs are just not living in the 21st century here, and probably don't know the first thing about gaming culture. They're blind to the sheer mass of people who pick up a game because they see a well-produced video that makes the game look fun to play. A game's fans are by far the most loyal and effective marketers the company has. If SE would allow monetization, they would make far more money on the additional sales and subscribers such videos would generate. The worst fate a game can suffer is to be ignored--and I'm hardly saying that will happen to FFXIV, but by that token, fewer talking about it is bad while more people talking about it is good.

Um, you're allowed to put videos of this game on YouTube, you just can't make money off them. I don't see any issue with that at all. It's not "killing off" grassroots marketing, as you can still show your videos to your friends, you just can't have paid links or ads in them.

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Originally Posted by Silmina

If SE would allow monetization, they would make far more money on the additional sales and subscribers such videos would generate. The worst fate a game can suffer is to be ignored--and I'm hardly saying that will happen to FFXIV, but by that token, fewer talking about it is bad while more people talking about it is good.

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This is true, I have seen in some streams people asking about the game, AND actually getting it because of the streamer speaking good of it, I think it is the same for YouTube, people watch, ask and then decide on purchasing it or not. I'd not be exagerating at all if I said between two of the most popular FFXIV streamers, they've got 1k-2k+ people to purchase the game.

Let's bring WoW into the plate, why not (note I have never played WoW seriously), Sodapoppin has over 11k viewers while playing WoW (mainly) and other games, just imagine the advertisement these kind of streamers would make. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

It's not "killing off" grassroots marketing, as you can still show your videos to your friends, you just can't have paid links or ads in them.

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Parallel summed it up best.

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Originally Posted by Parallel

This policy is such a boneheaded and shortsighted move. People can argue the legal/copyright issues all day long, but the practical effect of this policy is that it will greatly lower the quality of FFXIV content on youtube. Simple as that.

All of the best youtubers monetize their content, period. If you don't let people monetize, you virtually guarantee the quality of the content covering your game will be low.

Now whenever a person does a search for FFXIV on youtube all they will see is a bunch of garbage LP videos from people with lousy mics and terrible commentary. This does nothing but hurt FFXIV in the long run, which is why I'm against it.

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I dont think any of you could understand how it feels, having someone make money off of something you ORIGNALLY have made....

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Originally Posted by KonaZumi

I dont think any of you could understand how it feels, having someone make money off of something you ORIGNALLY have made....

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It literally feels like nothing, because it's not costing SE money to let youtubers monetize their videos. At worst they don't gain anything. At best they make a lot more money.

If they were losing sales because of it I could understand, but they're literally losing nothing.

I think I see what they are doing. They want to not let people do non-commentary playthroughs where people watch the story from there... but then what about the other people? Like Totalbiscuit, and Jesse Cox? They are youtube commentators and do it to entertain. Jesse Cox, especially, are HUGE Final Fantasy fans and want to see it succeed. But the usage caused them to throw all their material out. What bothers me is they are restrictingpeople who want to review, and show the beauty of this game but can't.. TotalBiscuit got a review copy but never did the review since he would NOT get his due for the work.

I think it needs to be looked into and a middle ground stated in. People recording entire games with no commentary can be an issue but people, heck, even Video Games Awesome Live?? They don't hinder, they BENEFIT the industry! Come on Square Enix. I say bring a middle ground. Let up a little. Do it for Jesse Cox man! We want you to succeed!

I don't think the real issue is about money. The decision is about maintaining the integrity of the game they spent 3 years rebuilding. The Japanese are mainly interested in people not misrepresenting the game for money.

If streamers really want to monetize, you're going to have to negotiate with Square-Enix. Like business-to-business. The moment you take a penny from the market, you are a business. In business there are procedures you have to follow. Streamers have to talk to Square-Enix, work a deal, and then abide by the resulting contract. Bottom line, businesses don't whine on community forums, they pick up the phone or network to the right person. That means those guys on Twitch and YouTube have to shave, take a shower, put on a suit, and actually walk out of their home to get things done if they want to make money.

It will be easier for networks like Curse to deal with Square-Enix than individuals.

So they are huge fans but if they can't make a buck off of it they bail? Allrighty. As for restricting media that's funny since it does nothing of the sort. If they are real media they know they can show video anyways. These people who's job is to be an internet personality need to wake up to the fact that they need to do their jobs and get a license if they plan to monetize their use of other peoples IP. Ducking behind the 'But I'm a fan! I get the word out.' is not a valid excuse.

PS: Inb4 people claim victory when SE clarifies/clears up some points but amounts to same thing.

Let me just put this little thing here:
The fact that you have a right does not means you enforce it.
Every single LPer, especially those who are monetized, are breaking copyright law. They are simply not allowed to do that.

Are there any motions against them? No, there isn't. But that doesn't means what they do isn't illegal. But it's not a right that the game companies enforce because it's good for them, but it's a right that they want to keep to prevent, in Nintendo's words "Prevent staining the image of their characters".

SE has taken a step above, they have quite literally forfeit part of that right. It's something that no other company has done before, as long as you're not making money out of SE's things you are perfectly allowed to share as you will. And who knows, they are more than likely going to ignore most of those people who have simple ads and things like such.

If these youtube kids want to get paid for using someone else's IP they either need to get a job at a publication company or get written consent from SE.

There's also one thing we have to understand too: The world is changing. Ever since the introduction of the internet, all we know back in the early 90s changed forever. From piracy to this, there is a new era of people with a passion for video games and more wanting to either review independently or provide entertainment with said product. They earn a living through it and promote the video game to boot.

Comedians earn a dollar of making fun of -everyone- and ripping some things to shreds, from all parts of the world. No one is restricting that.

This isn't about SE not living in the 21 century. This is about the OP and its ilk not living in *reality*. You don't understand copyright law, you don't respect the IP and you've spent this entire thread twisting yourselves into knots, trying to push the same juvenile arguments so often seen on the Internet. It's the same mentality that makes so many PC gamers think that stealing another's intellectual property is right, claiming piracy is actually GOOD and generates more business. That type of broke, backwards logic.

It's real simple. You don't get to make a CENT off of someone else's IP no matter how much you say you love it.

You want to start a grassroots movement? By all means! Do what every other such movement does and use your OWN money. That's what it means to be a fan at that level. When you love a product to the point where you are willing to sacrifice your time and your energy, driven by your passion for the product you believe in.

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Originally Posted by Stormspirit

This isn't about SE not living in the 21 century. This is about the OP and its ilk not living in *reality*. You don't understand copyright law, you don't respect the IP and you've spent this entire thread twisting yourselves into knots, trying to push the same juvenile arguments so often seen on the Internet. It's the same mentality that makes so many PC gamers think that stealing another's intellectual property is right, claiming piracy is actually GOOD and generates more business. That type of broke, backwards logic.

It's real simple. You don't get to make a CENT off of someone else's IP no matter how much you say you love it.

You want to start a grassroots movement? By all means! Do what every other such movement does and use your OWN money. That's what it means to be a fan at that level. When you love a product to the point where you are willing to sacrifice your time and your energy, driven by your passion for the product you believe in.

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I think I love you.

The fact of the matter is, it's SE's IP. It's theirs to license however they want. If they don't want you making money off it, then that's the way it is. If you love the game and want to make quality videos of the game for youtube, you'll do it whether or not they make money.

But I'm not bringing up about -that-. That person is just complaining. I'm just saying there is more to this then simply copyright law. This is the right to entertain and the right to review, be it youtube or else, a product. Totalbiscuit got a review copy and was asked to review it but wasn't allowed to use -any- of the footage due to their agreement. As a result, he refused to do the review.

This is a huge restriction. In their effort to stop people like the OP, they've completely ruined it for the actual LEGITIMATE reviewers and entertainers. They stand just as much as Gamespot and IGN in terms of reviewing and making videos.

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Originally Posted by Cedane

There's also one thing we have to understand too: The world is changing. Ever since the introduction of the internet, all we know back in the early 90s changed forever. From piracy to this, there is a new era of people with a passion for video games and more wanting to either review independently or provide entertainment with said product. They earn a living through it and promote the video game to boot.

Comedians earn a dollar of making fun of -everyone- and ripping some things to shreds, from all parts of the world. No one is restricting that.

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The law hasn't changed.

The only thing that's changed with the Internet age is the ease in which you can break those laws and get away with it. Spitting on copyright law and the rights of the IP holder are bad enough, but the fact that you think you can justify that position and claim the moral high ground is absurd.

Popular YouTubers are influential.

Influential YouTubers make a lot of videos.

Lots of videos reach a wider range of population.

Reaching a wider range of population makes FFXIV more popular.

FFXIV more popular brings SE more income.

More income to SE means more games and more content.

SE should embrace the new marketing model.

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Originally Posted by Koreos

Popular YouTubers are influential.

Influential YouTubers make a lot of videos.

Lots of videos reach a wider range of population.

Reaching a wider range of population makes FFXIV more popular.

FFXIV more popular brings SE more income.

More income to SE means more games and more content.

SE should embrace the new marketing model.

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Everything you mentioned can, and does, happen without monetization. If people want to support SE, they will.

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Originally Posted by Stormspirit

Everything you mentioned can, and does, happen without monetization. If people want to support SE, they will.

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You are right. However, influential YouTubers that spend a lot of time and effort making videos do it for an incentive. That is just a fact of life.

Would SE rather spend money, time and effort in little quarrels with silly internet video people, or take advantage of the free marketing, publicity and income they will bring them? It seems like a no brainer to me.

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Originally Posted by Cedane

But I'm not bringing up about -that-. That person is just complaining. I'm just saying there is more to this then simply copyright law. This is the right to entertain and the right to review, be it youtube or else, a product. Totalbiscuit got a review copy and was asked to review it but wasn't allowed to use -any- of the footage due to their agreement. As a result, he refused to do the review.

This is a huge restriction. In their effort to stop people like the OP, they've completely ruined it for the actual LEGITIMATE reviewers and entertainers. They stand just as much as Gamespot and IGN in terms of reviewing and making videos.

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This is the main problem as i see it, but it also seems more like an oversight than an intention. I'm hoping they can adjust the rules to solve that problem though.

People who say "you're a loser for making money off of content on games" are childish and completely missing the point.

This change causes a lot of quality content creators who might be sponsored by big networks, to no longer be able to put out their consistent, high-quality content revolving around the game. This content does wonders for games: It helps advertise, it creates online communities, it brings in new players curious about the game, it helps current players learn about the game. There is no downside to it, in-fact it is a huge positive for your game. This is why smart companies like Blizzard and Arenanet allow this type of thing. Mr Happy, a content creator I loved watching and who helped me get into this game, is just one of many creators that will no longer be able to devote as much time and energy into making content about this game due to this archaic, short-sited policy. It is decisions like these that are responsible for failures like 1.0.

The only thing this policy does for the community is remove a huge amount of great content from ever being created for this game. And that is a bad thing, there is no other way about it.

Really bad move Square Enix.

All those "Lets play" people and (Hobby) "game critics" can still make videos and post them. They just can't make money doing so.

There is nothing wrong with that.

If these guys want to make money reviewing games they need to get a REAL JOB in the REAL WORLD. PERIOD.

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Originally Posted by Stormspirit

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Just because they legally can doesn't mean it's a good business decision.

If they had some sort of outreach program for "professional" streamers it would be mitigated somewhat, but streamers and youtube commentators are a pretty powerful free marketing/advertising tool. To throw away those opportunities entirely is silly.

Of course it's pretty complicated, with SE wanting to control the branding of Final Fantasy very tightly as it's a very old brand that they've spent decades cultivating. But it doesn't mean it's the right business decision on SE's part.

Also calling people who stream games pirates or calling such activity "stealing" intellectual property is intellectually dishonest. There is no "theft" in copyright infringement, if you want to think about it in a traditional manner. It's just been marketed that way by the MPAA and the RIAA.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

All those "Lets play" people and (Hobby) "game critics" can still make videos and post them. They just can't make money doing so.

There is nothing wrong with that.

If these guys want to make money reviewing games they need to get a REAL JOB in the REAL WORLD. PERIOD.

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You seem confused on how the "real world" works. Most hobby game critics get almost no views, and even hobby game critics who post "lets play" videos tend to do the youtube partnership thing. Allowing them to make videos isn't nearly as effective as allowing big name streamers to do so on any level.

saying people need to get a "real job" in the "real world" makes you sound like you're out of touch with reality. People should do whatever they enjoy and can make a living doing. Many companies see these types of people as mutually beneficial and have seen great success with them (i.e. valve). SE is literally letting probably the biggest marketing opportunity pass them by with this restriction.

Wrong, anyone backed by a big company would have cleared it with SE. What your failing to realize is that this policy is nothing new. The policy is clamping down on one of the biggest issues hitting the online market to this date. and that is people using copyrighted material to make money without getting permission. there policy for music is entirely to protect them and the Player from getting sued. Since the game's audio itself is owned by the creators you face potential law suits if you use it outside the games context. all SE was doing was warning you not to do that. This does not stop a lot of people at all. the problem is that those you list as people who can no longer release there content off of the video are because they dont want to pay SE a share of it for using their stuff.

Lets Talk Real World

They are LITERALLY trying to say let me make money off you for free without your permission. the fact so many fail to understand that ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GET PERMISSION is amazing. your trying to fight a so called noble cause for these video makers, who are only not allowed to make it because they refuse to share a part of the profits with SE. that is the truth. they want to use someones material and not give them credit or a portion of the profits. There is nothing noble in supporting that cause. It is natural in a business world to have to pay fee's for using another's work in your own. You know though the streamers wont tell you that cuz then they would look like the bad guy.

Hard truth is that this is the law. In the real world you cant just sell a product using someones services or product and not owe them. the Apple store gets a percentage of your profits. so does android. this is nothing new. this is business. That is the world you enter when you decide to profit off it.

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Originally Posted by KonaZumi

I dont think any of you could understand how it feels, having someone make money off of something you ORIGNALLY have made....

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I can't speak for anyone else, but I can. I've been paid to write indie games. If someone wants to draw attention to my work and make a little money off doing so, I'd call that a mutually beneficial arrangement. As another poster pointed out, this is why smart companies like Blizzard and Arenanet allow that sort of thing. No one's saying that SE has no right to prevent people from making money off of FFXIV; people are just pointing out the reality that it's a mutually beneficial arrangement. Monetization of videos gives people incentive to produce much higher quality content that will get more views, and in turn drive much higher sales and subscriptions of FFXIV.

Yeah, gotta love the arms of government defending such idiotic laws that don't improve our living. LAWS! YEAH! They're always right!


Who cares how people make a living. Let them live.

why dont i just take video camera to a theater and record a video while commentating it?

I'd be super excited to see XIV videos on YouTube, but if partners are going to whine like this I'm not interested. Make the video or don't, the game will continue. I sincerely hope you can continue without those few extra dollars you'd earn...eventually.

I can't believe this is even a discussion

I think it is funny people are telling these guys who make money off of youtube to get a real job to make money. Putting down others who make money off of video games is just sad if you ask me. Hell, they are lucky to be able to make a living off of playing a video game and releasing content or streaming etc. I think some people are just jealous that these guys can make a living doing something that they can only do in their free time. I personally think it is fantastic that there is a way for someone to make a living off of video games outside of being a pro gamer if that is something they are passionate about.

At the end of the day if you can be happy with whatever field you work in that is a win in my book. So if these people are happy making youtube videos about video games I think that is just awesome.

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Originally Posted by Onnslaught

I think it is funny people are telling these guys who make money off of youtube to get a real job to make money. Putting down others who make money off of video games is just sad if you ask me. Hell, they are lucky to be able to make a living off of playing a video game and releasing content or streaming etc. I think some people are just jealous that these guys can make a living doing something that they can only do in their free time. I personally think it is fantastic that there is a way for someone to make a living off of video games outside of being a pro gamer if that is something they are passionate about.

At the end of the day if you can be happy with whatever field you work in that is a win in my book. So if these people are happy making youtube videos about video games I think that is just awesome.

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why would i be jealous of some guy with a giant mole, is balding, and wears a tophat all day? surely not i!