Not being able to buy single items from a stack on the marketward.

Personally I love how the market board is set up in game. If people could by just one item on the board then it would end up like every other mmo where people just sit in the trading area, buy all their mats and craft to max level. With this system it encourages players, friends and free companies to help each other with mats. So far its doing its job wonderfully.

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Originally Posted by Nura_Neko

If people could by just one item on the board then it would end up like every other mmo where people just sit in the trading area, buy all their mats and craft to max level.

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But people are already doing that. Except instead of trading area, it's the guild suppliers.

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With this system it encourages players, friends and free companies to help each other with mats.

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People where doing this just fine in 1.0 too. Just replace free companies with Linkshells and trading.

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Originally Posted by Nura_Neko

Guild suppliers only give the mats up to around lvl 20, after that you start needing items from other jobs and gathering. So pretty much they hand you the first 20 and then say, "Off you go, play with the other kids" XD

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You can still level off those more basic crafts. Long as you get experience.
Also leves.

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Originally Posted by Keisuna

I hope you stop playing and delete your character. I have friends on Hyperion that I'd like to play with and they're short a healer because of people like you who are inexplicably sticking around on a game that they hate.

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Because hating one aspect means we hate the whole game.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

But people are already doing that. Except instead of trading area, it's the guild suppliers.

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Guild suppliers only give the mats up to around lvl 20, after that you start needing items from other jobs and gathering. So pretty much they hand you the first 20 and then say, "Off you go, play with the other kids" XD

This system sucks. Period, stop trying to defend it.

It can be a problem having to buy more than you need, but what stops you putting the excess items back on the market? You might even be able to squeeze a profit out of it!

I don't go to the store in real life and buy 99 loaves of bread bundled together because they don't sell them individually. YOU'RE BREAKING MY IMMERSION.

The new market system helps balance the sales between those who are able to sell items in bulk and those that sell gear. Players can see gear as a more lucrative item to sell because when they use that one slot to sell to one person, the same thing is occurring with those that sell in bulk.

As mentioned already if you were able to choose how many you want to buy you would end up in a situation where everyone would just 99 all 20 slots, 1980 of one item being sold.

With the changes made now the player has to consider, should I just sell 1 of this, maybe 3, 6 or 9. You go by 1 then they can only sell 20/1980 of what they have at a given time. go by 3 you have 30, 6 is 60 and 9 is 90. As you can see the numbers in terms how much one can sell at once changes drastically by making this one simple change to the system and allows the market ward to be a more competitive business without alienating those who can't obtain as much as the other person.

If the seller wants to sell them only by stack I don't see why you should be able to buy singles.
You don't open a pack of cookies because you just want to buy half of it. If the seller is not able to respond to the market demands it's his own problem.
Read the market and act accordingly.

Tedious to sell, inconvenient to buy.

If there are a dozen listings for 1x item, a single listing listing for 70x items, and I need 20x of a item, what do I do? I have to either buy items one at a time, listing by listing, or in huge surplus from a single listing. Buying 1x12 and waiting for more is ludicrous--I should be able to buy the difference from the larger stack.

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Originally Posted by Airget

With the changes made now the player has to consider, should I just sell 1 of this, maybe 3, 6 or 9. You go by 1 then they can only sell 20/1980 of what they have at a given time. go by 3 you have 30, 6 is 60 and 9 is 90. As you can see the numbers in terms how much one can sell at once changes drastically by making this one simple change to the system and allows the market ward to be a more competitive business without alienating those who can't obtain as much as the other person.

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Removing the option to buy piecemeal from larger stacks doesn't make the market more competitive. Sellers don't know how many items a buyer wants, so they sell them 1x or 2x at a time; this bloats the market with scads of listings that could otherwise be compressed as one or two listings. The wards have always been an undercut fest because some people are too stupid or too impatient to let economic forces give them the best profit for their goods. Whether players list 20 stacks of 99 or 1980 stacks of 1, it's going to be undercut after undercut--not thoughtful competition. So why inconvenience everybody?

As many I'm sure have mentioned, in 1.0 you can sell a stack as a whole (buyer cant specify a quantity) or you can sell items in an adjustable stack.
Cant see why this is not carried over here.

Being required to mindlessly sit beside the retainer bell or market board to be able to buy or sell anything is quite tedious. Having to wait for an applicable quantity to go up for sale takes away time that could be spent actually enjoying the game. Spending several minutes making multiple listings for a single item anytime I want to a sell something is incredibly monotonous.

The market board is a time sink that also institutes a tax. It shouldn't be both inconvenient and costly. Most aspects of the game, like teleports, actually bother to try to balance the convenience and cost of doing something.

The way the market is set up i literally buy nothing anymore... it just hinders. I would buy 10 but not a stack. Ill just put in the work to go get it myself :/ why bother having gil other than to teleport if this the way things are

I'm sorry but the market place is like any auction house on any other MMO if someone sells 50 of something on an market place you can only buy that 50 not 4 of that one not 10 of that one. Jesus what is everyone complaining about here??? It has been the same for every other MMO I have ever played for the past 10 years.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

I don't go to the store in real life and buy 99 loaves of bread bundled together because they don't sell them individually. YOU'RE BREAKING MY IMMERSION.

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You also don't go to the store and buy 2 slices of bread to make a sandwich.

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Originally Posted by Toranja

Reading the thread, I read actually three positions:

1. Sell bundles as a whole - if my offer is one of 20 items, you will have to buy the 20 items.
2. Allow the divisibility of bundles - my offer is one of 20 items, but you can buy 5.
3. Allow the divisibility of bundles, but grant a wholesale discount to whoever buys everything or a large quantity - my offer is one of 20 items, but you can either buy 5 at price x each or you can buy 20 at price x*a each, with a < 1.

If options 3 and 1 are in place, then 2 becomes redundant.

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From my point of view, 3 becomes redundant if 1 and 2 are in place, which, SURPRISE! is what we had in v1.

I want the choice of divisible and indivisible stacks as both a BUYER AND SELLER.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The current features of the market wards were created based on discussions held between the market planning team and Yoshida. The market wards were set up in this way so that it would be possible to create differences between players who check the market and those that do not, by allowing the person placing items onto the market to research the current demand and sell an amount of items that are easy to buy.

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Okay, but that isn't working....These people are just trying to sell huge quantities for outrageous prices. I tried to by two things the other day to make some botany gloves. I would have had to spend 500k to get just two items.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The current features of the market wards were created based on discussions held between the market planning team and Yoshida. The market wards were set up in this way so that it would be possible to create differences between players who check the market and those that do not, by allowing the person placing items onto the market to research the current demand and sell an amount of items that are easy to buy.

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I understand that the development team has carefully discussed the matter internally and that the current system is the result of the decisions you made after said careful discussions. However, we, the players, your paying customers, are telling you in no uncertain terms that we feel you've made bad decisions, and that we feel things were better before, many of us having actually had a chance to compare both systems.

Let's say I am a miner and I am selling silver ore in the Markets, a popular leveling recipe requires 2 silver ore at a time, therefore it is optimal for me to sell in 2 item stacks.

Now we are hit with multiple limitations:

1. The max amount of items we can sell at once across both retainers is 40, therefore I cannot sell my entire stack of 99 in this optimal buying/selling quantity.
2. I cannot sell anything else as all my retainer space is consumed by these smaller stacks, any other items I may want to sell cannot be sold yet, meaning my retainer / inventory space is constantly filling up.
3. Our retainers only allow us to sell 20 item stacks each, meaning that I have to sell 20 on one retainer, 20 on another.

If you are adamant about not changing how items are sold in the market wards, remove the limit of items sell able on our retainer's.

Or... rethink your original plans and allow people to buy as much as they want from a stack.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm not worried about selling as much as I'm worried about buying.
Who's going to sell the stacks I need when no one is going to waste their slots with small amounts? So far, no one.

It's just making the wards inconvenient when they should be a simple stop for basic goods.

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What are you looking for? If I have some I will list them in singles at overblown prices just for you since you say no one else is selling singles even though I've been able to find singles or small stacks of everything I have needed to buy (except shark oil lol) since launch and have been listing my own stuff in singles or small stacks and have already made several million gil this week doing that. I am going to "waste" my slots with small amounts because that's generally what sells the quickest and at the best price per unit and when you consider that I would be a fool (or lazy, like most people in this thread) to try to list 99 of most items for a large total price instead of breaking it up into smaller listings.

This system offers a pretty significant incentive to play the market metagame. Not everyone is going to enjoy doing that, which is fine, just like not everyone is going to enjoy crafting. Profit to those who put in the effort to micromanage their market involvement, as it should be.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The current features of the market wards were created based on discussions held between the market planning team and Yoshida. The market wards were set up in this way so that it would be possible to create differences between players who check the market and those that do not, by allowing the person placing items onto the market to research the current demand and sell an amount of items that are easy to buy.

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So in effect you are saying those who "check the markets" *ie sellers* can monopolise the hell out of those who don't, guess I will just farm everything myself and the market-ward will just become a feature I never use.

I was hope that SE would change this decision at some point (especially considering the outcry from people in this thread), but I am pretty sure now that they won't.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

This is working as intended.

It is specifically designed so that one player cannot monopolize the market by listing all of their items individually and preventing others from seeing the higher priced items.

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This is an idiotic comment and is not well thought out.

Right now people who DO sell single items for the convenience of the buyer, take up more listings than someone selling a stack. Also, items are not listed by total price so your comment is absolutely false and the people who like it are blind for doing so.

It's up to the sellers. If you feel there's a deficiency in the market because nobody is selling small stacks, then go sell small stacks. You just might make some money.

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Originally Posted by Nushidorei

Let's say I am a miner and I am selling silver ore in the Markets, a popular leveling recipe requires 2 silver ore at a time, therefore it is optimal for me to sell in 2 item stacks.

Now we are hit with multiple limitations:

1. The max amount of items we can sell at once across both retainers is 40, therefore I cannot sell my entire stack of 99 in this optimal buying/selling quantity.
2. I cannot sell anything else as all my retainer space is consumed by these smaller stacks, any other items I may want to sell cannot be sold yet, meaning my retainer / inventory space is constantly filling up.
3. Our retainers only allow us to sell 20 item stacks each, meaning that I have to sell 20 on one retainer, 20 on another.

If you are adamant about not changing how items are sold in the market wards, remove the limit of items sell able on our retainer's.

Or... rethink your original plans and allow people to buy as much as they want from a stack.

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THIS RIGHT HERE EXPLAINS THE PROBLEM. IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS PROBLEM, DO NOT COMMENT.

Just give sellers a toggle to allow items to be sold individually and put an icon next to those stacks that can only be bought as a stack.

Simple.

Actually forget it. If everyone wants to spend more gil for less items, that's fine by me. It will cut my farming time by at least 99% because now I know I will get the same amount of gil for 1 item as opposed to selling 99.

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Originally Posted by Rebort

You also don't go to the store and buy 2 slices of bread to make a sandwich.

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If I go to the store and want 10 apples, but the minimum purchasable quantity is 1, I don't go get 1, go to the cash register, pay for it, and repeat this process. I'll buy 10 apples at the same time.

If I'm a store and I'm selling a total of 10 bushels of apples in quantities of 1, I don't put individual prices on all of them and force the customer to only bring 1 to the register at a time, pay for it, and then go back for more.

If I want to sell 20 Mickey Mantle cards on Ebay, I can sell them individually, but still have them contained under 1 listing. I don't have to make 20 separate postings cluttering up everything.

i agree i dont wanna be buying 99 when i only need 1 item

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Originally Posted by Felix7007

This is an idiotic comment and is not well thought out.

Right now people who DO sell single items for the convenience of the buyer, take up more listings than someone selling a stack. Also, items are not listed by price so your comment is absolutely false and the people who like it are blind for doing so.

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I am very curious what market system you have been using since the one I have been using all week lists things cheapest to most expensive.

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Originally Posted by Felix7007

THIS RIGHT HERE EXPLAINS THE PROBLEM. IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS PROBLEM, DO NOT COMMENT.

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I know this whole concept is super complicated and hard to grasp, but how about just, like, not trying to list so much at once? Problem solved!

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Originally Posted by DnK

If I go to the store and want 10 apples, but the minimum purchasable quantity is 1, I don't go get 1, go to the cash register, pay for it, and repeat this process. I'll buy 10 apples at the same time.

If I'm a store and I'm selling a total of 10 bushels of apples in quantities of 1, I don't put individual prices on all of them and force the customer to only bring 1 to the register at a time, pay for it, and then go back for more.

If I want to sell 20 Mickey Mantle cards on Ebay, I can sell them individually, but still have them contained under 1 listing. I don't have to make 20 separate postings cluttering up everything.

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This right here !!

People need to stop comparing this to a shop or supermarket, its a frikkin market, most markets sell by weight or quantity. (they don't force you to buy their whole stall)

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

I know this whole concept is super complicated and hard to grasp, but how about just, like, not trying to list so much at once? Problem solved!

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That isn't solving the problem at all, some people are leveling multiple gathering / crafting classes at once or changing the items which they are gathering / crafting frequently. At the moment, there is a massive amount of people leveling up, and therefore the competition is high. Being forced into splitting our stacks further to sell for optimal qualities is abysmal when we only have forty slots as an whole.

I am currently only playing this game for about 4 hours a day; even so the items I am getting are quickly clogging my inventory and my retainer, the limit to the amount of items I can sell at once is forcing me to regularly delete or vendor items which could be useful for the community.

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Originally Posted by DnK

If I'm a store and I'm selling a total of 10 bushels of apples in quantities of 1, I don't put individual prices on all of them and force the customer to only bring 1 to the register at a time, pay for it, and then go back for more.

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Flawed analogy.

The store "lists" these apples individually. The better analogy is to include those mesh bags of apples often also sold at grocery stores. That is one listing of X apples. You cannot open the bag and buy apples out of it individually at a cost proportional to the entire bag's price. If you do not need that many apples, you buy one, three, whatever, from the other bin where they are listed individually. You don't force the customer to check out with just 1 apple at a time, true (this is a difference between the game and this RL example), but you do indeed force the customer to pay for those apples individually (unless your "listings" are bags of apples).

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

I am very curious what market system you have been using since the one I have been using all week lists things cheapest to most expensive.

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Sorry I forgot that this market system is ass backward for a moment there. Alright, so its designed to have single items soo overpriced that no one sees them. Ok that's INTENDED. ok... almost had an aneurysm just then.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The current features of the market wards were created based on discussions held between the market planning team and Yoshida. The market wards were set up in this way so that it would be possible to create differences between players who check the market and those that do not, by allowing the person placing items onto the market to research the current demand and sell an amount of items that are easy to buy.

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In order words: "we copied the standard instead of doing it right."

I have no problems buying or selling from the Markets. I think the system works fine in THEORY but its implementation appears to have overlooked the player's inability to adapt. lol :)

I never sell in stacks over 20 any more.

If i put 20 pieces of lumber up i would not want 1 sold and 19 left i put 20 up for a reason, if i wanted to sell 1 i would put 1 up all mmo's have sale caps deal with it i like the market thus far

I share the same viewpoint as those who are against this system. The problem I have isn't so much from the selling viewpoint. I haven't had an issue selling stacks of items so far, but i've had to do it strategically, and it takes far more time/spaces then it should.

It's more from the buyer angle that i'm irritated with. There are certain items that are annoying to acquire, and sometimes I only need 2 or 3. I don't want to spend 100k extra on 10 when I only need 2 or 3. The seller just lost out on possible sales because most people end up not purchasing the massive stacks.

P.S. To the people that keep using the "it's in every other MMO" excuse. Most other MMOs suck, and that's one of the reasons ARR got so many poor features from the standard model.

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Originally Posted by Tavensky

If i put 20 pieces of lumber up i would not want 1 sold and 19 left i put 20 up for a reason, if i wanted to sell 1 i would put 1 up all mmo's have sale caps deal with it i like the market thus far

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this..
is not SE fault that the seller wants to sell stacks of 20 or 99 only.. if he doesn't wants to sell singles he doesn't have to.. on the long run he will loose clients since no one will buy 98 extra items when you only need 1.

what i do. and i encourage all sellers to do is for every stack make 2 or more singles sales. if you check my retainer i have stacks of 10 then 5 and then 2 or 3 singles of the same items.
yes it takes more space on my market slots but the single items sell quick enough to fill up again.

also imagine a market with buying only 1 item form a 99 item stack .. a seller has 20 slots.. he could sell to many items at the same time and could undercut and mess the items economy for a long.. loooong time..

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Originally Posted by inrainbows

Just give sellers a toggle to allow items to be sold individually and put an icon next to those stacks that can only be bought as a stack.

Simple.

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This would be my proposed solution. Clear cut.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

The current features of the market wards were created based on discussions held between the market planning team and Yoshida. The market wards were set up in this way so that it would be possible to create differences between players who check the market and those that do not, by allowing the person placing items onto the market to research the current demand and sell an amount of items that are easy to buy.

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While this might have been the goal, I feel the opposite is true. This ends up restricting both the buyer and the seller. I'm all for giving the buyer the option to sell as a stack. And thus can only be bought as a stack, but what ends up happening is buyers and sells what to buy the amount they want to buy, and there are sellers who would be happy if player A bought 50 items, and player B bought 10 etc, selling 60 beats selling 0.

Please reconsider. :)

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Originally Posted by Tavensky

If i put 20 pieces of lumber up i would not want 1 sold and 19 left i put 20 up for a reason, if i wanted to sell 1 i would put 1 up all mmo's have sale caps deal with it i like the market thus far

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Most other MMO's have sale caps in the 1000s, DEAL WIV IT !

Besides as people "keep pointing out" this isn't so much about selling as buying, too many people in here are looking at it from a sellers point of view.

Fact is, if you turn away your buyers because they can't buy the items they want then sellers also suffer in the long run and the economy becomes stagnated.

It's common sense really.

Should sellers adapt to selling smaller stacks, of course, will they ? have they ?, probably not. YES I know some of you have adapted but that doesn't mean every one will.

It's typical that SE would discuss this and come up with the most convoluted way to annoy the buyers. /welldone