Alpha First Look: Video 3 - The Black Shroud

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

New rule. Any thread that mentions jump gets immediately ignored. I think that might be a good way to stop embarassing ourselves in front of the rest of the MMO community that doesn't have this insane obsession that a small but extremely loud portion of FFXIV players do. Get over it already, jeez.

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You don't get to decide that. Saying "get over it already, jeez" is rather "loud" on your part.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Am I the only one slightly dissapointed that unfurling the map happens in MASSIVE chunks?

Eh I guess I should take what I can get though it encourages people to explore the maps at least. (I'm just worried that simply getting to a aether plaza of the area will bassically reveal the entire area around it making it not actually encourage exploration but just reveal the map as people hopscotch to aether nodes.

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The massive chunks revealed kinda seems to defeat the purpose. In open areas it may not be to bad but in a dungeon it could show too much at a time I think.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

The massive chunks revealed kinda seems to defeat the purpose. In open areas it may not be to bad but in a dungeon it could show too much at a time I think.

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Each chunk seems to be completely customizable in its shape, so a dungeon would probably reveal one room at a time, depending on what the designers want to do. One reason a huge chunk of the map is revealed in the video is because he crossed the corner of two chunks really quickly. I think they should probably make you go more towards the middle of a chunk before revealing it, that way you both find yourself always traveling a little into the unknown (which seems fun) and the other is it prevents you from stumbling upon the four corners of four huge chunks and suddenly revealing the whole map.

Another thing I hope is only field maps do this and that dungeon maps require doing a quest that forces you to some how explore the dungeon a little before you ever get the map. Hopefully something more interesting than coffer keys like in FFXI, but it doesn't really have to be.

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

I noticed this too, however I am leery to request such a feature! Ever play Everquest II? They had this and it got so annoying NPC's would jump, holler, and yell to get your attention everytime you traversed to another area! You leave come back to the same area and the same NPC would do the same thing over and over.

Maybe it's just a matter of adjusting the timing, or using it sparingly in an area instead of having ALL NPC's do it. but when ppl mention stuff like this I cringe because that is all I can think about is how annoying it was to have all the NPC's yelling at you when you enter an area! lol

Now an interesting dynamic would be have this tied to fame/reputation! As you do more for a faction or area the more attention you get from the NPC's and they ask for your help directly!

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Oh yeah it's definitely a matter of timing. In GW2 some of the NPCs get ridiculously annoying because they're on a one minute loop. I figure 5 minutes is good enough. hell, if not voice acting for a particular NPC, then they could throw in background chatter, grunts, laughter, crying, etc. This way they don't have to record new voices for each language. It's these small things that could add "life" to towns, cities, and any other populated areas.

Looking at the video, I feel like they designed a gorgeous town, designed NPCs, and just threw the NPCs there without really taking into consideration the sort of mood they would set.

I just don't want to visit towns and run through them. I want to be able to walk around and feel a sense of life in the towns.

The game world looks beautiful, and I love what they did with the music. You'll notice that at times in the video, no music is playing, but when you enter a new area, the music subtlety begins to play. It's small little details like this that help bring immersion into the game. It looks wonderful!

But I have to agree with some of the posters here that some of the animations need polishing in which it is my hope Square gets around to doing. I think they need to have those "momentum" animations people have been suggesting, and at least give an option to toggle the camera rotate feature the ability to rotate the camera without rotating the character at the same time. It doesn't seem to make sense that the character is just spinning in place and not moving their legs. I know Square is trying to achieve some level of realism an quality into their world. I think this fits into that catagory. Nit picking aside, again, I think the game is looking amazing. I can't wait to start playing it :)

Area looks 100x better than old Grid, but i'm still worried there has been no show of unlocked camera. That's kind of a deal breaker for me. Also still the same spinny character movements.

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Originally Posted by Riv

Area looks 100x better than old Grid, but i'm still worried there has been no show of unlocked camera. That's kind of a deal breaker for me. Also still the same spinny character movements.

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Just like Ifrit said you are a bunch of blinded fools...

very nice, cant wait

So in summary,

- Jump is okay, just avoid over-use in these walkthrough videos.

- Camera Lock on character needs to be toggled off for these walkthrough videos.

- Map is cool, just that the revealed portions are too big.

- Lack of character inertia is jarring.

Feedback done.

OH the anticipation looms.. everything looks awesome and the exploration with how there doing the maps is great. The water fall thing was cool and that one area through the gate in like a small dungeon looking area was scary..

lots of BS in this thread too... I absolutly love the fact that i can jump over the obsticles that i could not in 1.0. As for the jumping in the video get over it people... It makes me want to search all you jump haters out cross servers and show you my obsessive compulsive jumping disorder for a few hours.

awesome video, i like how the shroud looks now, it seems more open and it has lots of different areas, nothing like the maze we had as blackshroud with the same stone and tree wherever you were.

Good job, keep' em coming, i cant wait to play 2.0

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Originally Posted by Picoman

So in summary,

- Jump is okay, just avoid over-use in these walkthrough videos.

- Camera Lock on character needs to be toggled off for these walkthrough videos.

- Map is cool, just that the revealed portions are too big.

- Lack of character inertia is jarring.

Feedback done.

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#1 Maybe it is set to be revealed at the speed of chocobo exploring . but no matter i wont be looking at the map the entire time to see how big the chunks are revealed i will just run and explore till i can't no more that map gets on the way of the Beautiful sight.

#2 Maybe Hydaelin's gravity is like that of "Jhon Carter of Mars" no way to tell is incorrect as there was no jump in 1.0 and you can't say jump should be like Planet Earth's it is another much larger fantasy planet

I wonder if these alpha vids will show any gameplay. so far we've seen a tease of character creator and two areas. I think we get the idea that the world will look more beautiful than in 1.0 lol. It would be nice if the 4th video focused more on the actual gameplay while yes graphics are nice and all they don't make the game, it's the gameplay that makes the game and all these videos have shown off so far is how beautiful the game look and how much better it looks that it's predecessor but it doesn't really show the meat of the product which should be the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I wonder if these alpha vids will show any gameplay. so far we've seen a tease of character creator and two areas. I think we get the idea that the world will look more beautiful than in 1.0 lol. It would be nice if the 4th video focused more on the actual gameplay while yes graphics are nice and all they don't make the game, it's the gameplay that makes the game and all these videos have shown off so far is how beautiful the game look and how much better it looks that it's predecessor but it doesn't really show the meat of the product which should be the gameplay.

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Agreed, any gameplay they have shown so far is a dragoon mowing over low lev mobs. i want to see what a 1v1 battle at the proper level looks like and how long that takes. We need an Alpha Battle demo.

Lovely video :) The music is great, colors are very vibrant and I love how open it feels now.

The jumping is fine also, it will be so much fun to be able to jump over stuff in my way, off hills and higher areas etc. :D Also lack of inertia by me is fine, it would just make things "slow" imho. It's funny too because lot of people try to find ways around the movement and try to reduce it as much as possible >.>

Thanks SE for the video, I really liked it! Keep up the good work :D

"Fog of War" map is not working it seems... we shouldn't be able to see any of the names/landmarks of an area that is fully covered up by the Fog map. It takes away from the adventure and exploration.

That's why I loved the fact that you had to buy maps of an area in FFXI.. you couldn't see any of the map at all...that was hardcore exploration. Some maps where quest rewards some maps were bought or found.

Take away the names on the fogged areas Yoshi/Dev team. Or you might as well have no "Fog of War"....

What are the Japanese alpha testers bugging??? Letting stuff like this slip.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

#1 Maybe it is set to be revealed at the speed of chocobo exploring . but no matter i wont be looking at the map the entire time to see how big the chunks are revealed i will just run and explore till i can't no more that map gets on the way of the Beautiful sight.

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This got me thinking again about the "Fog Map" which is only seen on the premise that the "M" button is pushed. Obviously we are not going to have that up all day while we walk.

Yoshi.. why does the compass not have a "fog of war" on it. Everything can be seen already and if you open up the big map and see a fog portion open up, the compass does not mirror any kind of change as the map visibility was always seen.

I bet if I zoomed out from the compass that map viability would still be seen.

Need to seriously fix this. Or just sell maps of entire areas, in game. And have the map be blank if you don't have a map.

Awesome, only one tiny nitpick- footstep sounds are still obnoxiously loud. Very minor thing though. Loved it overall. This video showcases the graphics a lot better than the last two.

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Originally Posted by Picoman

So in summary,

- Jump is okay, just avoid over-use in these walkthrough videos.

- Camera Lock on character needs to be toggled off for these walkthrough videos.

- Map is cool, just that the revealed portions are too big.

- Lack of character inertia is jarring.

Feedback done.

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Its only Alpha. Its probably like that because they dont want to get lost when they need to go somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Am I the only one slightly dissapointed that unfurling the map happens in MASSIVE chunks?

Eh I guess I should take what I can get though it encourages people to explore the maps at least. (I'm just worried that simply getting to a aether plaza of the area will bassically reveal the entire area around it making it not actually encourage exploration but just reveal the map as people hopscotch to aether nodes.

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I almost feel the same, but just to have it is a big boost for me. I'm gonna chalk this one up to "as far as the eye can see" and hope it doesn't get out of control.

I do agree with those who are saying names of places shouldn't appear on an unrevealed map. Quest markers would be fine though.

I love the swaying of all the trees. I always thought the motionless trees looked so lifeless, like cardboard cut-outs.
The beautiful, vibrant colors (leaves, flowers, buildings, etc.) also give the world more life and depth.

I've never minded jumping in games. I like that we will be able to avoid the small trip hazards and barriers.
About the lack of inertia/gravity during a landing though, although it doesn't look "correct", a game I've recently played had the landing animation and with that comes a small animation lock. That was not fun and I'm sure I'll get used to it this way quickly.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Jump jump jump jump jump jump.

Jumping seems to serve almost no purpose except to make me wonder why somebody is jumping. I was going to wait to complain until I saw how nervous players would be, but after seeing the Live Letter and now even this video where the PR rep can't keep from jumping, I must say that I really hate the jumping. It is really distracting. It looks bad (one should jump differently if one is running vs. standing still). It also seems like it will actually be unneeded to actually get anywhere.

The jumping needs to be fixed.

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Jumping can serve a few purposes one instead of walking 10min around a corner you can jump over certain choke points.
Also not saying they will do this but, in Rift there is a raid battle where it is kinda like simon says.
Jumping can bring a whole other mechanic dodging shockwaves going over obstacles plus i like it gives me something to do while running and i like seeing the chocobo attempt to fly.

It looks really nice. What I loved about 1.0 was the ultra realistic and crisp appearance of characters and their armor as well as the environment. In most cases down to the appearance of thread count on wool and cloth and the sheen of metallic armors and chainmail. I hope this aspect was not sacrificed for more vibrancy and lower specs for PS3.

I have to agree. I felt while playing FFXIV 1.0 that because the characters were anchored to the ground everything the they did was incredibly well animated because there was no detachment mechanism. The character animations felt like they belonged on the surfaces and there was not an enormous contrast. Very smooth. The last thing I want to see is a few hundred people bouncing around in a zone. Incredibly huge turn off and it makes me feel like the players are separate entities from the world and the floor, ground, zone area is just a make shift stage. I am not against the realism of jumping, tumbling, acrobatics or whatever but it really needs to be handled carefully. Even if I were to jump six times in a row not everyone of them would be 6 Feet off of the floor. Hop, Hurdle, Bounce, Leap...I would keep these in mind when designing jumping mechanics so that the experience doesn't feel out of place from your absolutely gorgeous world.

Re: Small Trip Hazards

A game without jump that gets you stuck on a rock is broken because the level designer put those foot hazards there, not because you can't jump (FFXI doesn't have this problem). The solution wasn't full blown jumping, it was not letting a small rock get in your characters way.

Re: Going through instead of around

If you aren't supposed to go through, and instead go around, then a level designer is just going to put a tall fence or wall around it (if you can jump). The reason you couldn't jump down in v1.0 wasn't because you couldn't jump it was because the level designer didn't want you to go that way.

This is true no matter if you can jump or not: You can go where the level designer wanted you to go.

I think being able to jump over fences is nice, but making a 2 story leap off a ledge ... not so much.

Certainly there are still some invisible walls because some of the most beautiful places in FFXI had places you shouldn't be able to jump into (chasms, river beds, off the edge of a floating fortress, etc.). One big problem that jumping introduces now is that the invisible walls will seem out of place were before they were natural.

I'm also thinking of some zones like the Beaucidine Glacier where you were blocked by 2 story drops from getting through the zone quickly. To make this zone work in FFXIV you either have to introduce invisible walls or add walls of some kind that block the view.

Oh well, it is too late to change these consequences of jumping, but I do hope that at least somebody will see that from a game design standpoint, being able to jump is not as obvious as they think. There are lots of games were you cannot jump, even very popular ones, even ones with lots of action.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

Re: Small Trip Hazards

A game without jump that gets you stuck on a rock is broken because the level designer put those foot hazards there, not because you can't jump (FFXI doesn't have this problem). The solution wasn't full blown jumping, it was not letting a small rock get in your characters way.

Re: Going through instead of around

If you aren't supposed to go through, and instead go around, then a level designer is just going to put a tall fence or wall around it (if you can jump). The reason you couldn't jump down in v1.0 wasn't because you couldn't jump it was because the level designer didn't want you to go that way.

This is true no matter if you can jump or not: You can go where the level designer wanted you to go.

I think being able to jump over fences is nice, but making a 2 story leap off a ledge ... not so much.

I'm hoping there are still some invisible walls because some of the most beautiful places in FFXI had places you shouldn't be able to jump into (chasms, river beds, off the edge of a floating fortress, etc.). One big problem that jumping introduces now is that the invisible walls will seem out of place were before they were natural.

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Your nit picking at nothing, Jump has advantages as i said.
Add more mechanics to the fight if your already getting overwhelmed should go play oregon trail and not a evolving game.

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Originally Posted by Aerenvel

Your nit picking at nothing, Jump has advantages as i said.
Add more mechanics to the fight if your already getting overwhelmed should go play oregon trail and not a evolving game.

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You didn't address anything I said.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

You didn't address anything I said.

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I did in the post above
FF11 use to be good yes but it is also over 10 years old.
11 isnt as good as it use to be abby ruined 11.
And they can implement fall damage if you fall 2 far you die. ez enough i only see pros 0 cons.
other than people not understanding the additional aspects it brings to the table.
Also extremly usefull in pvp.
you make uneducated posts.

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Originally Posted by Aerenvel

I did in the post above
FF11 use to be good yes but it is also over 10 years old.
11 isnt as good as it use to be abby ruined 11.
And they can implement fall damage if you fall 2 far you die. ez enough i only see pros 0 cons.
other than people not understanding the additional aspects it brings to the table.
you make uneducated posts.

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You keep addressing ME, not my points. Calling me "uneducated" isn't constructive. If you open yourself up to the possibility of having a conversation instead of insulting me you might enjoy yourself more.

At least you address level design with the potential of adding fall damage but in an MMO it doesn't mean anything to die if you can just be raised.

Even if they ruined FF11 that has nothing to do with the design of the Beaucidine Glacier zone which hasn't changed since 2002. The truth is that that level design only works if you have invisible walls. Same is true of Tu'Lia, a fortress floating in the sky.

It's pretty disgusting to see how people are complaining about jumping. Is it perfect ? No, it can use some polish, but keeping up with thread has really made me scratch my head in wonder with some of the complaints. There's nothing wrong with adding a jump feature to this game. Just because people have an itchy jump button finger, you guys are getting bent out of shape and complaining because of jumping. You guys need to get over it.

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Originally Posted by Tupster

You keep addressing ME, not my points. Calling me "uneducated" isn't constructive. If you open yourself up to the possibility of having a conversation instead of insulting me you might enjoy yourself more.

At least you address level design with the potential of adding fall damage but in an MMO it doesn't mean anything to die if you can just be raised.

Even if they ruined FF11 that has nothing to do with the design of the Beaucidine Glacier zone which hasn't changed since 2002. The truth is that that level design only works if you have invisible walls. Same is true of Tu'Lia, a fortress floating in the sky.

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I apologize i didnt mean to offend kinda in a bad mood.
Anyways think about it in real life, Im in the military we cut paths walk up hills to get directions faster.
No one can raise you if you fall off a mountain, you have to return and start over gives a little more hmmm fun to the journey.
As far as bugs foothold w/e, nitpicking at things that will be taken care of.
Trust me jumping matters, my best friend hated teh fact that he couldnt jump. said it makes him feel confinded, he played a NE in wow and if you jump 3 times or so they do a flip. He liked that.
Anyways they can do this and it is better obviously you should not be allowed to jump to the top of a mountain.
But If SE dont want you going a certain way, I promise they can stop you from going there one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Aerenvel

I did in the post above
FF11 use to be good yes but it is also over 10 years old.
11 isnt as good as it use to be abby ruined 11.
And they can implement fall damage if you fall 2 far you die. ez enough i only see pros 0 cons.
other than people not understanding the additional aspects it brings to the table.
Also extremly usefull in pvp.
you make uneducated posts.

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PvP should be the last thing on the developers mind. Not to mention the effect of Jump on it. All they need to worry about is capturing everything that was so amazing about the last few months of playing 1.0. Storyline and Content. The aesthetics of the game as they are seem natural and realistic while maintaining it's fantastical approach. Whether they keep jump or not is up to them, but I believe it will severely cripple most otherwise engaging experiences unless they handle it with the utmost care and consideration. She is absolutely correct. Barriers and invisible walls that do not seem natural or are very out of place completely remove you from the context in which you are trying to explore. It's no longer an engaging experience with a full open world where natural barriers bar your path. It's a cheap platform concept that wants to make sure you only go where it wants you too.

Another example is a fun raid fight in RIFT,
Like simon says boss will give commands and you must follow or bad things happen if you fail.
One you have to face away from him, another you got to dodge these tornados, another he sends out these shock waves that you have to jump over, etc.
Try to see the potential in things.

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Originally Posted by Shadow_Sama

It's pretty disgusting to see how people are complaining about jumping. Is it perfect ? No, it can use some polish, ... You guys need to get over it.

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Are you really disgusted?

If it isn't perfect then we should address it.

We shouldn't have to get over it until there is no chance to make it any better.

Just because you personally do not see a problem doesn't mean that I do not have a problem and there is nothing that makes you opinion better than mine.

I really wish i worked for SE maybe one day

Its like swiming dont you guys want that aswell?

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Originally Posted by Mihen

PvP should be the last thing on the developers mind. Not to mention the effect of Jump on it. All they need to worry about is capturing everything that was so amazing about the last few months of playing 1.0. Storyline and Content. The aesthetics of the game as they are seem natural and realistic while maintaining it's fantastical approach. Whether they keep jump or not is up to them, but I believe it will severely cripple most otherwise engaging experiences unless they handle it with the utmost care and consideration. She is absolutely correct. Barriers and invisible walls that do not seem natural or are very out of place completely remove you from the context in which you are trying to explore. It's no longer an engaging experience with a full open world where natural barriers bar your path. It's a cheap platform concept that wants to make sure you only go where it wants you too.

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So your mentality is hey dont try to walk cause i might fall down, just get back up again.
SE games always have a story, really shouldnt worry about that.
Have faith in SE to fix the errors when they come, its all going in to make a better overall game.
All they gotta do to stop you from getting up on a path is top make the side to tall to jump on.
If its open ground it really dont matter, most likely your biggest obstacle will still be monsters like always.
They already got a bangin story to go with so that shouldnt really be brought up.

@Aerenvel

I thank you for pointing out lots of ways that jumping is a good addition. I certainly do not think it should be removed. The #1 reason of course is that it would require scrapping a very large amount of work. There is a post of mine earlier in this thread where I list some things that could be done that would make me happier. None of them remove jumping or any of the advantages that you speak of.

My posts addressing level design with/without jumping aren't meant to show that one is better than the other, just that isn't as trivial as "Jumping is always better". I just wanted people to understand that game design is more complicated than that.

A large part of this for me personally is role playing. I like to get immersed in another world and feel like I'm there. One thing that really took me out of when when playing v1.0 was gil farmers, because seeing them reminded me I was playing a game. Seeing a group of people who can't keep from jumping every second is the same kind of thing. It reminds me that I'm playing a game with a bunch of fidgeting people who can't keep their finger off a button ;)

In other words, if people in this thread are complaining that the Aetherite camps seem dead because the NPCs just stand around then my complaint about people jumping too much is very similar. It just takes me out of the world.

Edit: I do not think there is much more to say on this topic until I get to play the alpha or beta (and if I get to play the alpha I won't be able to talk about it publicly). The bottom line is that the video made me really excited and I cannot wait to play FFXIV: ARR.

I know this is going to sound sad and if the shoe fits wear it as they say. "I know this probably isnt you"

They say the average gamers has the attention spam of like 15-20 sec b4 they get bored.
As dumb as jumping sounds..... Its a variable far overlooked but so obvious when you think of it.
Im sure you can see where that is going.
I think they are implementing level sync so they should do away with PL and exp issues let you pt with friends
And think 2 its HOT atm but only atm games not out yet, just think of it as another emote and use it as a tool to stay away, or ask the person if they are ok maybe something is bothering them.
Ultimately itz up 2 you I personally just want to play it lol.

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Originally Posted by Aerenvel

I know this is going to sound sad and if the shoe fits wear it as they say. "I know this probably isnt you"

They say the average gamers has the attention spam of like 15-20 sec b4 they get bored.
As dumb as jumping sounds..... Its a variable far overlooked but so obvious when you think of it.
Im sure you can see where that is going.
I think they are implementing level sync so they should do away with PL and exp issues let you pt with friends
And think 2 its HOT atm but only atm games not out yet, just think of it as another emote and use it as a tool to stay away, or ask the person if they are ok maybe something is bothering them.
Ultimately itz up 2 you I personally just want to play it lol.

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its hopeless dude, they don't like it because they just don't like to see it. I mean they might say they don't like to see hundreds of people do it but this video showed just one guy jumping and look what happened. I watched the demonstration video and it did not bother me, but it bothered them so much as if someone was scratching nails on a chalk board. simple as that. its always the same people too.

*tap dances out to stage left*