Realm Reborn = downgrade?

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Nope. I never expected to see such a downgrade on such an important aspect of the game.

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lmao lol. This why 1.0 failed on launch instead making animation they should have had better server and content.

I don't have the time to read through 16 pages right now to see if someone brought this up but I don't see why we can't have inertia and a more responsive/dynamic combat system. Couldn't there be something along the lines of... If you select an action, the inertia stop motion is canceled and you instead execute the action. Inversely, if you stop without selecting an action, you will do an inertia stop animation.

I personally really like the inertia animations, makes it feel a lot more realistic, so I don't want to see it go but I understand the need for a more responsive combat system.

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Originally Posted by VanillaLatte

These transitional animations are of a great deal to me at least. This is how you make a feeling of gravity and inertia and making things in the game alive, instead of just moving some object arbitrarily.

And it's not for any sake of bashing. It's a concern of mine and I hope the director knows it's a big deal.

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This. Please help make others aware of this issue, this isn't just grass, but a major aspect of the general feel of the game.

Judging by this thread i dare to say that a big part of this community may share my concern.

We need a developer to address the issue as soon as possible.

I'm a legacy member currently, but i'm not sure if i want to keep paying for a game that is directed to feel like another WoW.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

This. Please help make others aware of this issue, this isn't just grass, but a major aspect of the general feel of the game.

Judging by this thread i dare to say that a big part of this community may share my concern.

We need a developer to address the issue as soon as possible.

I'm a legacy member currently, but i'm not sure if i want to keep paying for a game that is directed to feel like another WoW.

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ready or not, it's going have a lot of wow clonish things to it.

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Originally Posted by Firon

lmao lol. This why 1.0 failed on launch instead making animation they should have had better server and content.

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lol.

This is why every single mmo after WoW fails after a while. Because when you've seen the biggest part of the content what makes you STAY in the game is the general feel of it. I'm sure we've all seen the biggest part of FFXI content by our first year in the game, what made us stay and continue to level up was that feel.

First you establish the feel, then you add content. And animations are almost 50% of the feel.

OH NO! NOT THE PHYSICS! THIS WILL RUIN FF14!

FUNDAMENTAL GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS!

(Ignore the removal of the weekly xp cap, invisible wall and the stamina bar.)

SE DOESN'T WANT US TO HAVE NICE THINGS!

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

OH NO! NOT THE PHYSICS! THIS WILL RUIN FF14!

FUNDAMENTAL GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS!

(Ignore the removal of the weekly xp cap, invisible wall and the stamina bar.)

SE DOESN'T WANT US TO HAVE NICE THINGS!

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Don't know if sarcastic or not-

Is this another Grass-thread about seen things in a "pre-alpha-stage-video"?

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

OH NO! NOT THE PHYSICS! THIS WILL RUIN FF14!

FUNDAMENTAL GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS!

(Ignore the removal of the weekly xp cap, invisible wall and the stamina bar.)

SE DOESN'T WANT US TO HAVE NICE THINGS!

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Anywayyy... back at the adult's table...

The only arguments I'm seeing against this thread have to do with "stop crying," when the only ones crying are the ones pointing the finger, and "it's only a demo reel," when the demo reel alone stands for an 80% optimized (Yoshi's words) graphical representation of what we are expected to see based on marketing alone. I want to hear from an official dev statement that it's either purposely removed, or that it won't work because of reason A and reason B.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

Don't you think by the time 2.0 releases would be a little too late to "cry about it"?

You have to understand something. Its 2012. We have a way of reaching out and make our concerns and opinions public for everyone including the developers to see. We're not simply "crying about it" , this is not a thread to circlejerk our sadness over our precious animation missing, but a thread to :

1. Make current and future players aware of this situation
2. Let the developers know we are aware of this situation
3. Ask for developers to address the issue before your MMO feels like Aion and its clones.

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does SE really care?
problem is if any the game is using WoW as there focus point so its gonna have plenty of clone to it. and another thing is i doubt its gonna to gain much players just because people gave up on it, its a semi wow clone, and so very restricted to do anything. people dont wanna pay for it everymonth. dont think it will hit FFXI numbers for a long time the game is already 2 years old.

other games are doing new things most recent is GW2 you can just play that game start moving and you find things to do.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

lol.

This is why every single mmo after WoW fails after a while. Because when you've seen the biggest part of the content what makes you STAY in the game is the general feel of it. I'm sure we've all seen the biggest part of FFXI content by our first year in the game, what made us stay and continue to level up was that feel.

First you establish the feel, then you add content. And animations are almost 50% of the feel.

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Those games didn't fail cause of movement they failed cause of other glaring problems not cause it copied Wow either. Rift by farm more popular that both of SE's MMo's, and ToR failed cause of bugs and not much content. I never seen someone review a game and say i wont play this cause the char does not move real enough.

In fact one the most popular games has the worst fkin animations i seen in any game and that is All of the Elder scrolls games and they sell pretty well. It's the content int hose games that sells it not the animation.

I dont see why people think it's a compromise to add slowing down animations for running... I mean if GW2 can do it...

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Originally Posted by Nemy

In the video shown at Gamescom 2012 (that one can easily also find on Youtube), you can clearly see that the animation of the characters is seriously severed.

2 of the main aspects of the running animation are completely gone.

1. The leaning left or right of the characters as they're strafing / changing direction is gone.

2. The animation of the characters as they stop running (that extra step to define the stop) is also completely gone. The characters just stop moving their legs, and that's it.

Please don't tell me that 2 of the most important things that made the animation in FFXIV so good compared to other mmo's are gone for the sake of jumping.

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you realize that those stop motions where actually causing performance issues along w/ animation lock which was mentioned in a earlier dev post or letter from the producer.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

No. You must be joking.

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No, you just didn't read the first part of my post. I said that they can always be added in because not all of the animations are done yet. Running diagonally looks like shit at the moment, but I'm not expecting it to be this way on release.

I don't think they'd take away an animation that makes this game look more fluent than most MMORPGs on the market. To put this nice and brief... not 100% of the animations are finished. Though, if this thread gets enough hits, I'm sure a dev will come and confirm it for us.

Man, what's next, complaining about toe movement?

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Originally Posted by Kasathar

Man, what's next, complaining about toe movement?

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Would you be surprised?

I am still waiting for a "I need bigger Boobs", or "Thong does not look right" Thread.

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Originally Posted by Kasathar

Man, what's next, complaining about toe movement?

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Comparing toe movement and grass to... the animation of the whole character.

Okay.jpg

I am waiting till I can fiddle with settings, but the grass thing might be something I have to come around and beat on lol.

Hopefully they add either some grass post processing or add some good opacity blending.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Those games didn't fail cause of movement they failed cause of other glaring problems not cause it copied Wow either. Rift by farm more popular that both of SE's MMo's, and ToR failed cause of bugs and not much content. I never seen someone review a game and say i wont play this cause the char does not move real enough.

In fact one the most popular games has the worst fkin animations i seen in any game and that is All of the Elder scrolls games and they sell pretty well. It's the content int hose games that sells it not the animation.

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Nobody is saying ARR will fail due to animation problems. ARR will do great regardless of animation based on its content. Jumping was meaningless and cosmetic too, but Yoshi-P saw it was important enough to implement. Same thing here.

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

you realize that those stop motions where actually causing performance issues along w/ animation lock which was mentioned in a earlier dev post or letter from the producer.

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I'm starting to realize that Guild Wars 2 succeeds with zero animation lock simply because every class can move and cast/attack at the same time regardless of whether the character is moving or not. In other words, GW2 lets you attack and move simultaneously, which divides up upper and lower body animations independently.

Does anyone know, or noticed, whether ARR will be based on successful casting only when not moving? I thought I noticed the dragoon jumping back and attacking simultaneously in the ARR alpha footage.

I'm glad others see this as an issue... It was the first thing i noticed in the video and have to say i was pretty dissapointed. Hope the animations are still a work in progress.

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Originally Posted by Webster

I'm glad others see this as an issue... It was the first thing i noticed in the video and have to say i was pretty dissapointed. Hope the animations are still a work in progress.

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/crossfingers

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Originally Posted by Zaireeka2025

Nobody is saying ARR will fail due to animation problems. ARR will do great regardless of animation based on its content. Jumping was meaningless and cosmetic too, but Yoshi-P saw it was important enough to implement. Same thing here.

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Jumping isnt just cosmetic tho it servers a purpose. It lets you jump over things. Let;s you get to point a > B much faster.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Jumping isnt just cosmetic tho it servers a purpose. It lets you jump over things. Let;s you get to point a > B much faster.

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It lets you jump over some obstacles but it does not make you travel faster lol, that's the biggest placebo effect with the feature in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It lets you jump over some obstacles but it does not make you travel faster lol, that's the biggest placebo effect with the feature in MMOs.

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It does help you go faster not having to walk around stuff = less time traveling.......

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Originally Posted by Firon

It does help you go faster not having to walk around stuff = less time traveling.......

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This.

Its like logic simply abandon some people.

I have nothing against jumping (although i agree it needs a limit because i really don't want to see all these people autistically jumping for no reason, it ruins my immersion) but i'd rather not jump if the trade-off is to take the current animation away and downgrade it to something i try to avoid by choosing to play this game.

I still play ff tactics fairly regularly, and by today's standards, the graphics are crap. Plenty of people, and more I might add than those that play xiv, still play the hell out ffxi, and it's over a decade old. Minecraft looks like an Atari game and sold millions.

This game in its current version had some of the best Mmo graphics on the market, and it tanked. So my question to people complaining about graphics and 2.0 would be, did you really expect you would have your cake and eat it too? Making games is about managing available resources to run your game. I for one will gladly trade the ridiculous things people are worried about graphically for better story and deeper gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Is this another Grass-thread about seen things in a "pre-alpha-stage-video"?

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No, its about a fundamental aspect of the game this time, called : character animation.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I still play ff tactics fairly regularly, and by today's standards, the graphics are crap. Plenty of people, and more I might add than those that play xiv, still play the hell out ffxi. This game in its current version had some of the best Mmo graphics on the market, and it tanked. So my question to people complaining about graphics and 2.0 would be, did you really expect you would have your cake and eat it too? Making games is about managing available resources to run your game. Mine craft looks like an Atari game and sold millions.

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The fallacies here are too many to address...

I'll give it a try later.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I still play ff tactics fairly regularly, and by today's standards, the graphics are crap. Plenty of people, and more I might add than those that play xiv, still play the hell out ffxi. This game in its current version had some of the best Mmo graphics on the market, and it tanked. So my question to people complaining about graphics and 2.0 would be, did you really expect you would have your cake and eat it too? Making games is about managing available resources to run your game. Mine craft looks like an Atari game and sold millions. I for one will gladly trade the ridiculous things people are worried about graphically for better story and deeper gameplay. That's just me though.....

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I wanna like your post 100 times but i can't.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I still play ff tactics fairly regularly, and by today's standards, the graphics are crap. Plenty of people, and more I might add than those that play xiv, still play the hell out ffxi, and it's over a decade old. Minecraft looks like an Atari game and sold millions.

This game in its current version had some of the best Mmo graphics on the market, and it tanked. So my question to people complaining about graphics and 2.0 would be, did you really expect you would have your cake and eat it too? Making games is about managing available resources to run your game. I for one will gladly trade the ridiculous things people are worried about graphically for better story and deeper gameplay.

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FFXIV did indeed fail but it was never because of the graphics, it was simply developed bad, the story was horrible and had no endgame or deep engaging content. The current version after all the updates is a 100x better and last i checked, they didn't need to downgrade the graphics in order to add in all that content.

I too play a lot of old sprite based games, but comparing FF Tactics which was developed close to 15 years ago proves nothing. If tactics was first released this generation and looked like the original ps version im sure there would be a shit load of ppl who would complain about graphics. As already stated, even if they did completely cut out the animation, im sure everyone is still gonna play ARR but it would be nice to get a dev response on the subject. Id personally rather have the enhanced movement animation over chocobo feathers flapping when u jump.

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Originally Posted by Shura

FFXIV did need fail but it was never because of the graphics, it was simply developed bad, the story was horrible and had no endgame or deep engaging content. The current version after all the updates is a 100x better and last i checked, they didn't need to downgrade the graphics in order to add in all that content.

I too play a lot of old sprite based games, but comparing FF Tactics which was developed close to 15 years ago proves nothing. If tactics was first released this generation and looked like the original ps version im sure there would be a shit load of ppl who would complain about graphics. As already stated, even if they did completely cut out the animation, im sure everyone is still gonna play ARR but it would be nice to get a dev response on the subject. Id personally rather have the enhanced movement animation over chocobo feathers flapping when u jump.

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The content in 1.0 is still bare bones and the animation is 1 of the many reason ppl don't bring melee to a lot of stuff.

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Originally Posted by Firon

The content in 1.0 is still bare bones and the animation is 1 of the many reason ppl don't bring melee to a lot of stuff.

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No, the reason is because it's easier to stack BLM and BRD for things, they get locked too btw.

Really? I don't like the animation in the current version. o_o
Of course, I was used to XI when I played, and thought we moved slower and clunkier in XIV. Maybe it's because I play a Roe, dunno. Aren't the male races done by the same mocap anyway?
I liked Aion's movement, but then again "WoWclonegtfo" probably applies.

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Originally Posted by Firon

The content in 1.0 is still bare bones and the animation is 1 of the many reason ppl don't bring melee to a lot of stuff.

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I Agree 1.0 is still seriously lacking in terms of content, but my point was the condition of the game at launch was not because of the graphics People don't bring melee to a lot of stuff simply because the current server system is horrible, its so horrible that it even effects simple movement, such as evading Eruptions but that is a server issue and not an Animation issue as already stated by dev team. In the 25th anniversary video Yoshi admits to the issue and said they were building Data centers in different parts of the world to deal with it. Not having the animation is not gonna be a deal breaker for anyone, everyone is still gonna play ARR but would just be nice to get some official information on the subject since unlike the grass issue, the high quality movement animation made FFXIV stand out compared to a lot of other MMOs so losing the feature would be a shame.

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Originally Posted by Nemy

The fallacies here are too many to address...

I'll give it a try later.

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Don't bother, I am not even sure you know what fallacies are.

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Originally Posted by Shura

FFXIV did need fail but it was never because of the graphics, it was simply developed bad, the story was horrible and had no endgame or deep engaging content. The current version after all the updates is a 100x better and last i checked, they didn't need to downgrade the graphics in order to add in all that content.

I too play a lot of old sprite based games, but comparing FF Tactics which was developed close to 15 years ago proves nothing. If tactics was first released this generation and looked like the original ps version im sure there would be a shit load of ppl who would complain about graphics. As already stated, even if they did completely cut out the animation, im sure everyone is still gonna play ARR but it would be nice to get a dev response on the subject. Id personally rather have the enhanced movement animation over chocobo feathers flapping when u jump.

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"Last you checked" lol You know someone on the staff personally that told you over a beer or something; "Yeeaaahhhh, we COULD have kept the graphics in 2.0 looking killer with all this new stuff we're adding, but then we remembered we really hate making money and were like, forget it!" ???

And the point you make about about why xiv failed proves my initial point about graphics not being the end all be all in what determines a games success. Also, while tactics wasn't made recently, Minecraft was, with even worse graphics than tactics, an the masses loved it.

They also said the gamescom footage was run basically at ps3 specs. We should just wait until we see the beta to decide how we think it should look.

While there was a uniqueness to the lean that I enjoyed... I will gladly gut it with my staff and serve it on a plate to Extreme Ifrit myself if it means I'll be able to dodge his cracks without server delay.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

I still play ff tactics fairly regularly, and by today's standards, the graphics are crap.

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I still play tetris. That doesn't stop me from being disgusted by Aion-tier mmo's with awful world design and animation.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Plenty of people, and more I might add than those that play xiv, still play the hell out ffxi, and it's over a decade old.

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Because the people who built FFXI, built it to last. XI's world design can arguably stand next to many "current generation" mmo's. The people who actually have seen XI on decent PC's would know what i mean. You don't even need your nostalgia goggles to appreciate Sky, even today. FFXI's team provided an amazing feel to their game by the standards of that time. Remember we talk about a time where 2002 WoW was considered current generation.

FFXIV's team, at least the people responsible for the atmosphere (including animation) succeeded in providing the same level of quality FFXI did at its time. Nobody had ever seen such amazing animation and feel to the character movement in an mmo since. And now the work of those animators could just be thrown away.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Minecraft looks like an Atari game and sold millions.

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Minecraft SELLS this aesthetic. It didn't sell millions of copies despite looking like an Atari game, it sold because of its simplistic boxy environment.

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Originally Posted by Biggs

This game in its current version had some of the best Mmo graphics on the market, and it tanked.

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It didn't tank BECAUSE of its "graphics" it tanked DESPITE of it. So what is your point exactly?

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Originally Posted by Biggs

So my question to people complaining about graphics and 2.0 would be, did you really expect you would have your cake and eat it too?

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My question to you would be, Do you expect the mechanic that you gave your car to for a broken windshield to say : Well mister Biggs, we fixed your windshield, but remember those awesome brakes you had that made driving so pleasant? Well we kinda got rid of them. (?)

We all know that they could fix the animation lock without having to completely throw away the current animation. Copying and pasting generic moving animation was the EASY way to do it, ruining one of the best things that made this game feel different than others in the process. (if that is the case indeed)

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Originally Posted by Biggs

Making games is about managing available resources to run your game. I for one will gladly trade the ridiculous things people are worried about graphically for better story and deeper gameplay.

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You should really play single player games.

Primarily, an MMO's job is not to tell you a good story. There are different genres / mediums that can do that infinitely better from books to single player rpgs.

An MMO's job is to make you feel that you're in a vibrant, believable world. Not necessarily realistic, but believable. The quests, the story, and dialogue, are all secondary. The focus is on you and the rest of the players. If you ask ANYONE about their experiences of FFXI, they wont tell you about the story line, but THEIR OWN stories, THEIR OWN experiences with other people in Vanadiel.

I don't even remember the storyline of FFXI, but travelling from Bastok to Jeuno with a couple of friends, was one of the things i will never forget. If the game looked and felt like WoW it wouldn't be the same. And animation plays a huge role here.

inb4 tl;dr but anyway, i'm sorry.

The current animations are great and all, but what I'd really like to see is something like this for character movement animations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ea-CXxBEYg
Such a system would at least keep my character from floating off the ground or getting his feet clipped partway into it! I was quite disappointed to see floating characters in XIV after years of seeing them float in XI. It would be swell if the monsters got the same treatment, especially if their posture can adjust for changes in ground slope to prevent their tails/etc. from going through the ground.
Newer video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29ZEvxwq_F8

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Originally Posted by Diraco

what I'd really like to see is something like this...

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Well me too, but if your video is 3, and the current animation is 2, help us not to go back to 1.