Thank you for the Astro changes coming in dawntrail!

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

It's from their profile, it's very nice not to see the childish rants anymore. I said my piece, that person is just determined to be mad and spread his misery so he isn't alone wallowing in it. I'm just hoping now we get some info the end of this month so we can see in more detail the AST changes. Still super hype for it! If the cards are quite simple I want to get the feedback in for some more interesting effects and ofc the manipulation I so desire ;)

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Her* If you're gonna passive aggressively ramble about me and write your own fanfiction like a bratty teenager with your new bestie the least you could do is not misgender me, thanks.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Awright mate. Does your crystal ball tell you what all the cards and abilities do too? Such a doomsayer, you'd think that you ran a Y2K blog or something, geez.

And you're saying this is like the EW experience all over? You're the one aggressively championing for EW AST in this very thread.

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Let’s be honest here. We have not had good healer role changes since stormblood. I can even go one step further and list some really bad healer decisions and problems that took a long time to get fixed.

Removal of all interesting dps buttons start shadowbringer. They tried to remove ED from scholar an ability that was with the job since arr and they had to back paddle faster then a paddle boat trying to course correct a waterfall.

Astro being mana minus start endwalker. Was fixed around the 2 raid tier when it gained mana per draw.

Whm lilys became usable and still not desired because it was a really heavy dmg loss. Took them an entire expanse to make lilies “good”.


Start endwalker: no interesting new ways of dealing dmg as healer expect getting a less clunky version of sch that needed to be buffed a decent number of times to compete. Also increase in ogcd heals that are just overkill for casual content and take away the need for actual healing in high end content.

The healer role did stagnate for more than 6 years now. Astro cards changed from so many interesting options to balance with different colored dps cards (with atleast minimal thinking) to on strongest dps, healer card on healer and tank card on tank.


Also yeah about new abilities…… they will either healer shield or both again. While I slam my head on the 1 key for another 3 years because there will always be healing downtime and they won’t turn up the healing requirement ( they also promised that and we got Jack shit) because baby healer will have a heart attack while vet healer will still be bored to death. Like had that with p8s and people telling me it was so hard to heal while i was sleeping even week 1.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see another expansion of shield healer dominance

What do the regen healers even offer at this point

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Let’s be honest here. We have not had good healer role changes since stormblood. I can even go one step further and list some really bad healer decisions and problems that took a long time to get fixed.

Removal of all interesting dps buttons start shadowbringer. They tried to remove ED from scholar an ability that was with the job since arr and they had to back paddle faster then a paddle boat trying to course correct a waterfall.

Astro being mana minus start endwalker. Was fixed around the 2 raid tier when it gained mana per draw.

Whm lilys became usable and still not desired because it was a really heavy dmg loss. Took them an entire expanse to make lilies “good”.


Start endwalker: no interesting new ways of dealing dmg as healer expect getting a less clunky version of sch that needed to be buffed a decent number of times to compete. Also increase in ogcd heals that are just overkill for casual content and take away the need for actual healing in high end content.

The healer role did stagnate for more than 6 years now. Astro cards changed from so many interesting options to balance with different colored dps cards (with atleast minimal thinking) to on strongest dps, healer card on healer and tank card on tank.


Also yeah about new abilities…… they will either healer shield or both again. While I slam my head on the 1 key for another 3 years because there will always be healing downtime and they won’t turn up the healing requirement ( they also promised that and we got Jack shit) because baby healer will have a heart attack while vet healer will still be bored to death. Like had that with p8s and people telling me it was so hard to heal while i was sleeping even week 1.

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I dropped being a healer main in ShB. The launch changes for all the healers were painful for that expac. I was fully ready to drop the game as a whole if they did not have a decent showing for the job action trailer. I hinged my preorder of the expac on if the trailer sufficed.

The only things that looked good for healers in the trailer were the 3 GCD attacks WHM got off PoM, locked behind a 2 min, but at least it's 3 GCDS. And all of the things SGE got. SGE's AoE Kardion, Eukrasian Dyskrasia AoE DoT, and the new GCD attack were all on my DT SGE bingo card. So those bought more time for SE with me personally. At least until the media tour showing.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see another expansion of shield healer dominance

What do the regen healers even offer at this point

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idk, when I swapped to scholar on p8sp2 week 1 to accomodate a friend's friend, having whm regen for the single target DoTs in the later half was such a godsend. Initially they refused to heal them at all and yelled about their glare uptime, but let me tell you: using all your aetherflow and then alternating aldo/physic just for someone to barely live tells me why regen healers are still good. Another thing about scholar is you rely on regen healer's throughput a lot. There are time where you just don't have the tools to recover HP bars from a mechanic during prog or you end up having to replace dps meld with piety just so you can emergency tactics succor/adlo enough times to make up for a lack of throughput healing.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see another expansion of shield healer dominance

What do the regen healers even offer at this point

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Especially when SCH/SGE were given MORE healing tools rather than mitigation from what we see.

I'll wait to see the changes to judge the job but so far (and considering SE track record) imo is not looking great. They seem to be removing the rng indentity of the job for what it seems to be an aetherflow with less versatility.

My bet is that the effects will go as follows:

Balance/Spear: Give a 10% damage boost to one player
Spire/Ewer: Give a 15% mitigation buff to one player
Arrow/Bole: Single target heal with a value of 500 potency

I would be very surprised if they have different effects and even more if the kit ends up with some remaining depth (or even more than now)

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

Especially when SCH/SGE were given MORE healing tools rather than mitigation from what we see.

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It’s why i dont support pankardia in any way except if it replaces physis as a skill. SGE doesn’t 3 short CD party wide regens. It already has by far the highest throughput of the 4 healers

Seraphism as a 4th spreadlo amplifier just shows they have literally no idea how modern SCH works considering this is just gonna lead to SCH deleting mechanics in lesbian power ultimate till they buff SGE and then regen healers get pushed even further towards the edges

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s why i dont support pankardia in any way except if it replaces physis as a skill. SGE doesn’t 3 short CD party wide regens. It already has by far the highest throughput of the 4 healers

Seraphism as a 4th spreadlo amplifier just shows they have literally no idea how modern SCH works considering this is just gonna lead to SCH deleting mechanics in lesbian power ultimate till they buff SGE and then regen healers get pushed even further towards the edges

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I'd replace Ixochole or Kerachole with it actually. Why can't Addersgall be spent on Soteria, AOE Kardia, and other things that actually interact with Sage's identity?

Also what is "lesbian power ultimate"?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'd replace Ixochole or Kerachole with it actually. Why can't Addersgall be spent on Soteria, AOE Kardia, and other things that actually interact with Sage's identity?

Also what is "lesbian power ultimate"?

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Whatever the eden ultimate is. I can never remember its name but since it relates to Ryne and Gaia I just call it lesbian power

As for your suggestion that doesn’t bother me either but at least kerechole does interact with a shield healer identity, ixochole can die in a ditch though

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'd replace Ixochole or Kerachole with it actually. Why can't Addersgall be spent on Soteria, AOE Kardia, and other things that actually interact with Sage's identity?

Also what is "lesbian power ultimate"?

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Ixochole would be interesting to be replaced with pankardia.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'd replace Ixochole or Kerachole with it actually. Why can't Addersgall be spent on Soteria, AOE Kardia, and other things that actually interact with Sage's identity?

Also what is "lesbian power ultimate"?

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The Eden ultimate cause people don’t buy that gaia and ryne are just “friends” you know.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

idk, when I swapped to scholar on p8sp2 week 1 to accomodate a friend's friend, having whm regen for the single target DoTs in the later half was such a godsend. Initially they refused to heal them at all and yelled about their glare uptime, but let me tell you: using all your aetherflow and then alternating aldo/physic just for someone to barely live tells me why regen healers are still good. Another thing about scholar is you rely on regen healer's throughput a lot. There are time where you just don't have the tools to recover HP bars from a mechanic during prog or you end up having to replace dps meld with piety just so you can emergency tactics succor/adlo enough times to make up for a lack of throughput healing.

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Or as double shield you have kardia, haima and fairy tether for the natural alignment target. And you don’t have to heal really hard when you can just put a decent chunk of mits more on that mech. Saying regen healer is needed is just proving that you never had the drug that is double shield healer in actual good player hands.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Whatever the eden ultimate is. I can never remember its name but since it relates to Ryne and Gaia I just call it lesbian power

As for your suggestion that doesn’t bother me either but at least kerechole does interact with a shield healer identity, ixochole can die in a ditch though

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I disagree. I think Kerachole being primarily a powerful regen really clashes with the barrier aspect of Sage. If it were a barrier and mitigation instead of a regen, that would make more sense, but I'd still prefer that Addersgall be focused on healing through DPS rather than just flat healing. If Addersgall were generated with certain GCD actions in some fashion, then I think that could be cool also, because then it's healing you generate through DPS.

Also, now I get it. It didn't click with me the first time.

Y'know, after thinking on it, I think the only thing they'd need to do to make this rework palatable to me, if not ideal or loved like some previous iterations is make the 3 non minor arcana cards random. As in, when you press sleeve draw you still draw one mit, heal, and dps card, but which one you draw is random. Lord and lady would still alternate to prevent RNG dps haters from whining.. Its controlled enough that the 'muh consistent dps' crowd won't complain about that either since it'd be even more consistent than dancer/red mage RNG (since missing the 50/50 doesn't mean 0 damage, just less, and that's assuming the cards have an obvious better). The people who just want utility cards are happy, the people who want RNG in general are happy, the people who want some reactivity and unique feeling pulls are happy (Each sleeve draw would have 8 different iterations, combined with a lord and lady for 16 total iterations), and the people who hated the busyness are happy. It's not as complex as stb or as fast paced and reflexive as shb, but it's like... good enough to stand on it's own, with a core class mechanic that doesn't just feel like a more boring aetherflow.

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Or as double shield you have kardia, haima and fairy tether for the natural alignment target. And you don’t have to heal really hard when you can just put a decent chunk of mits more on that mech. Saying regen healer is needed is just proving that you never had the drug that is double shield healer in actual good player hands.

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To be fair sage is pretty much a throughput healer and a shield healer all in one

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

To be fair sage is pretty much a throughput healer and a shield healer all in one

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SCH is as well, SCH’s potential is even higher than SGE, you just mitigate it with energy drain

That’s the problem with the split, the shields do both

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Originally Posted by Kissune

Y'know, after thinking on it, I think the only thing they'd need to do to make this rework palatable to me, if not ideal or loved like some previous iterations is make the 3 non minor arcana cards random. As in, when you press sleeve draw you still draw one mit, heal, and dps card, but which one you draw is random.

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Depends what the effects are. If the Damage card is, for example, '10% on Melee, 5% on Ranged' and '10% on Ranged, 5% on Melee', then they'd have failed in their attempt to 'remove the RNG', because the Melee card is definitively 'better', on account of Melee getting a free +10% damage because SE thinks that keeping Melee uptime is a challenge (maybe it will be justified in DT we don't know yet)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That’s the problem with the split, the shields do both

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Big true, and to think Nocturnal AST had to die for this

If anything the damage card will be 3-5%, the defensive card will just be a 5-10% mitigation which will be useless and the curative card might as well not even exist since it will be a low potency 300-400 heal and since tanks can heal themselves I honestly think they are just throwing their hands in the air and saying screw it. There is no more freedom of choice.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

If anything the damage card will be 3-5%, the defensive card will just be a 5-10% mitigation which will be useless and the curative card might as well not even exist since it will be a low potency 300-400 heal and since tanks can heal themselves I honestly think they are just throwing their hands in the air and saying screw it. There is no more freedom of choice.

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Why would it be 3-5% if you have it less each minute now?

I think it would make more sense if it was around 10% or lasted longer, Unless they want to up the numbers for astro... which I don't really want astro to be more selfish.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Why would it be 3-5% if you have it less each minute now?

I think it would make more sense if it was around 10% or lasted longer, Unless they want to up the numbers for astro... which I don't really want astro to be more selfish.

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Cause I don't trust them to do right by the class with them needing a re work every expansion

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curative card might as well not even exist since it will be a low potency 300-400 heal

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The cards had no healing effect on the healer. I think it will be a mana reg (45 reg.) or healing boost of 5-10%.

The SCH will probably say Yammi for Critlo.

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Originally Posted by RulerOfPotaoes

OP posted some valid personal opinions and beliefs about the new astro and as always I see that the official FF14 forum is still full of elitist who believe their opinions are better than anyones..

Its sadly a trend i keep seeing regardless of which sub forum. Anyone who says anything remotely positive about the game is shot down immediately by a bunch of "well actually" sayers.

It doesnt matter what changes SE does to Astro or any healer. People are never happy.

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Well, I think the problem is that, what Yoshi-P has been emphasizing was: players’ feedback is sooooooooo important that may change(or “destroy”, from some angles) a job completely, and it happened so many times. And even though there might nearly be a 50-50 situation, it seems that they are following some kind of “majority rule” that the minority could only lay back and say goodbye to their main job — I couldn’t see the balance of the 2 perspectives and there’ll be only 1 (or none) of the both would win.

Then I’m curious about this: How was the decision made? What are the rationales behind this decision?

So it comes to here: Players can only try and try, to voice their feedback again and again, praying for the team’s listening. Yes, you may think that they’ll still look unhappy and keep complaining no matter how the things are changed. Sadly, it’s not an end but a means. It has been the only way for them to express their thoughts. See what has been happening on AST and you may get what I mean.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

As I stated in my first post responding to you, I'm not passing judgement or forming opinions until I see the full kit. I think that should have been enough of a cue for you to pick up that I'm not interested in debating the quality of DT AST as we know of it now. I think it's pointless wheel spinning atm. If the kit is subpar, which would not surprise me, I will make my opinion known at that point.

What I take issue with is your conduct throughout the thread. You've done nothing but insult, berate, and talk down to those who don't mimic your stance. Forgive me for wanting to have a bit of fun taking some jabs at someone such as yourself.

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You can surely form your opinions after you see the full kit, but here comes my concern: why can’t we get the details way after the Live Letter? What’s the meaning of these 2 weeks waiting for the details from the media tour? AST has been totally changed and we can’t even get the job details immediately.

If players could only leave their feedback after the implementation of Dawntrail update, we might have to wait for at least 4 months till the next patch update, and then, learn how to play this lucky job one more time.

Just a quick brainstorm if possible. Next time, if there will be a rework for any jobs, it might be better to release ALL details ASAP after the Live Letter for job changes.

Afterall, my real concern now is not “how a job will be adjusted (or “destroyed”, again)” anymore, but “what is the team’s vision regarding the job”. We are players but not testers for a released patch. Tho I truly appreciate their respect towards players’ feedback, I feel weird if a job’s construction would be largely affected by these.

At last, one more declaration. I’ll be very happy if there’s any trial for job adjustment before the Patch is released, maybe a beta test program like practicing in the Stone, Sky, Sea instant would be a good attempt?

tbh at this rate all i wanted is a proper promise for 8.0

7.x is already hopeless for me.

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Originally Posted by Olivia_G

You can surely form your opinions after you see the full kit, but here comes my concern: why can’t we get the details way after the Live Letter? What’s the meaning of these 2 weeks waiting for the details from the media tour? AST has been totally changed and we can’t even get the job details immediately.

If players could only leave their feedback after the implementation of Dawntrail update, we might have to wait for at least 4 months till the next patch update, and then, learn how to play this lucky job one more time.

Just a quick brainstorm if possible. Next time, if there will be a rework for any jobs, it might be better to release ALL details ASAP after the Live Letter for job changes.

Afterall, my real concern now is not “how a job will be adjusted (or “destroyed”, again)” anymore, but “what is the team’s vision regarding the job”. We are players but not testers for a released patch. Tho I truly appreciate their respect towards players’ feedback, I feel weird if a job’s construction would be largely affected by these.

At last, one more declaration. I’ll be very happy if there’s any trial for job adjustment before the Patch is released, maybe a beta test program like practicing in the Stone, Sky, Sea instant would be a good attempt?

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I would very much love if we got the preliminary details right after the live letter. Maybe a public test would work well. Maybe something akin to the Proto Ultima Weapon fight as a public released test with the new class changes to gain early feedback.

I breathed a sigh of relief when DNC did not get any major changes in the live letter for now. Which is not a good sign of the expectations of an expansion launch.

But, I fully expect for AST to be butchered like every expansion past SB has done. I'm giving the media tour the chance to prove me wrong. At least SGE got the stuff I wanted for it to a degree.

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Originally Posted by KanataNanaya

tbh at this rate all i wanted is a proper promise for 8.0

7.x is already hopeless for me.

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Despite the fact that 7.X will exist for 2.5 years, but we aren’t allowed to make big job changes mid patch because reasons.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Despite the fact that 7.X will exist for 2.5 years, but we aren’t allowed to make big job changes mid patch because reasons.

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Well that's not true, they completely gutted PLD right after they made it the best playing tank in 6.0. I'm sure there will be another job that doesn't work perfectly with the 2 minute meta they'll panic convert into a bundle of noninteractive 30s/60s/120s cooldowns.

Are we expecting to see the additional info at the end of this month?

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Are we expecting to see the additional info at the end of this month?

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Other then the patch notes before launch, no.

I don't care much if AST has RNG or not, it's not what makes or breaks the job for me. I have to say I like 'true' RNG though, that is the one that only has two outcomes: good or bad. I like EW Minor Arcana because you never know what you will get but you always know what you want and you can't do anything about it. Most of the time you want Lord, but sometimes Lady can be useful in messy runs. If I get what I want, yay. If I don't, better luck next time. It's a good button to press in my opinion, even when I lose the RNG game.

I'm not a big fan of the 'main' cards, though, because it's 'false' RNG where the outcomes are 'good' and 'less good but still good'. It feels like I win every time and it's not very fun. You can only truly lose with Astrodyne if you don't get 3 seals, but Astrodyne is weak on purpose so it doesn't matter because you don't feel the difference. A system like this might as well not be there in my opinion.

If I had to choose, I'd take cards with different effects over RNG because that's more important to me and most importantly, more fun. Unless it has 'true' RNG, but most people don't really want a true gambler class where you can effectively lose.

I want more unique effects though, and not just something as simple as '500p heal on target' (luckily, no card is a direct heal). Even a mitigation buff can be interesting if it grows stronger over time so you have to play it well in advance and time it right, for example. Cards could have different effects based on the role you use them on and they could also add secondary effects to some of your skill (like Nocturnal sect used to do).

Lastly, we should have ways to interact with our cards, because they should be AST's main mechanic and not just a minigame on the side which often feels like pointless busywork. We should be able to undraw a card we have no use for so we can buff another card; we should be able to extend the effect to the whole party; we should be able to extend the duration of the effect. In other words, we should have old tools back that would synergize pretty well with the new system, like Royal Road, Spread and Time Dilation.

I'm curious to have tooltips, but regardless of what cards effectively do, we should get tools to interact with them in more meaningful ways.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

Cause I don't trust them to do right by the class with them needing a re work every expansion

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Y'know i think this one they will stick with because it's the most simple. I don't think they would randomly change card damage buff to be weaker, but who knows lol.

Which is a bad thing don't get me wrong I don't really like any of the "new designs/reworked jobs", but it's been shown that making everything simple is the only direction jobs will be took going foward

Baffled yet sadly not surprised they took away all of Astro's RNG. It's not like the whole lore behind the job is PREDICTING THE FUTURE. We should really look into old school titles like Everquest, at this point, if the DT healers are just as stale as ever. I really do want to have a genuine conversation with people who believe that this level of pruning is good for the game; everything plays like a scripted movie. I jumped back in to see if there's gonna be a shift in gameplay, but I might just unsub for good if I'm not going to actually get the chance to use my brain. I just really want to know what the passive, no DPS healers believe is good game design. I'd hate for this game to devolve into Japanese IMVU.

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Originally Posted by Olivia_G

Afterall, my real concern now is not “how a job will be adjusted (or “destroyed”, again)” anymore, but “what is the team’s vision regarding the job”. We are players but not testers for a released patch. Tho I truly appreciate their respect towards players’ feedback, I feel weird if a job’s construction would be largely affected by these.

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This is one of my main point of criticism not with just AST but healer role in this game. What is the devs actually trying to do? We got promised "more healing" with the ShB rework but that obviously didn't come to fruition, with them adding ridiculous things like Bloodhwetting or Shake it Off (Over time). Healerless clears is becoming more common. Damage options is obviously not a focus when SGE gets touted as "DPS Healer" and it only has one more DPS button compared to others. So what are they trying to do exactly?

Sure, some players are overly agitated when discussing job changes, but I see where they're coming from. It has become increasingly difficult to argue in good faith when you see healer changes over the years (SB lilies, ShB glare spam, pure and barrier split, other jobs' self sustain, SGE being a SCH copy). It feels amazingly insulting to hear "We've made the changes based on player feedback, so please try it out and provide more feedback". This forum and many other social media has already provided 2 expansions worth of feedback regarding healers. This is not working, go back to Stormblood. And no, it is not JP players that wanted this, they want SB AST/SCH back just as much as we do.

It is not illogical to make the conclusion of:
"The devs reads the feedback, but have their own vision and does that anyway"
"The devs reads the feedback, but these changes are made incompetently"
"The devs don't read the feedback"

I made a thread discussing how the devs should communicate job design changes. I firmly believe that this is an issue of communication/philosophy rather than the devs being uninspired.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Are we expecting to see the additional info at the end of this month?

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with the media tour embargo up, probably yes. not sure when tho.,

Hey all,

I'll give in too as an ASTRO main.

My backstory is I have the Mentor mount and 10,000 duties completed. I started ARR with CNJ/WHM.

I have played ASTRO since HW and seen its systems or job identity gutted with each expansion. I also play on playstation exclusively. So I'm controller based.

I enjoyed playing with cards on an OCD as it makes me think on the fly - who needs what card etc be it from TP or damage mitigation from a tank buster (earlier eras) - then to the dps cards (what roles are the dps? Who needs what?)

I didn't know about the changes till I read this thread and quite frankly, if I wanted mindless heal gameplay - I'd play WHM.

It is such a shame AST is becoming the same as the other healers, I enjoyed weaving cards etc while I spammed gravity or heals.

Very disappointed in this change and after years, I'll be swapping my AST for something else I find fun and not 111111 spam.

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Originally Posted by DivineP

I enjoyed playing with cards on an OCD as it makes me think on the fly - who needs what card etc be it from TP or damage mitigation from a tank buster (earlier eras) - then to the dps cards (what roles are the dps? Who needs what?)

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Are you saying the cards are on the GCD now? The cards are still OGCD based on the trailer.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Are you saying the cards are on the GCD now? The cards are still OGCD based on the trailer.

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Doesn't matter, the cards have a lot less thinking or weaving to them. Offensive cards have lost their seals or type, and you only have 2 every 2 minutes vs EW's 4 to manage.

Mitigation/Healing cards will be scripted/fixed after prog, so they'll feel the exact same to use as a aquaveil/tetra.

So Divine is right, it'll feel just like WHM, but even I'd rather just play WHM if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Zaytex

Doesn't matter, the cards have a lot less thinking or weaving to them. Offensive cards have lost their seals or type, and you only have 2 every 2 minutes vs EW's 4 to manage.

Mitigation/Healing cards will be scripted/fixed after prog, so they'll feel the exact same to use as a aquaveil/tetra.

So Divine is right, it'll feel just like WHM, but even I'd rather just play WHM if that's the case.

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Not refuting any of their points when it comes to the possibility of AST feeling like WHM with the rework. Just checking with them on the GCD/OGCD understanding.

But, since one of Divine's major points was the weaving of OGCDs, it sounds like that aspect matters to them.

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Originally Posted by LynxDubh

Are you saying the cards are on the GCD now? The cards are still OGCD based on the trailer.

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Sorry my phone tends to auto correct alot. (I need to learn to proof read)

What I meant was, I enjoyed playing the card mini game with AST as the cards were on OGCD - E.G I enjoyed having that little second to look what card I had when ppl weren't dying etc and thinking where I could place it - sounds like with this simplification I'll just be spamming stuff like on WHM. I'll wait for the tool tips but ot looks like it's been watered down again, but this time they've gone abit too far.