2hr Abilites (Yes Please!)? or (No Thanks!)?

I'm all for 2hrs. :D It doesn't have to be 2hrs, though, but I liked the 'I better only use it when I have no other way of surviving because it takes that long to cool down' feeling. But even then I usually died as BLM. lol

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

thays not every job, but you really need to look @ the pros and cons of every jobs 2hr.
oh and drk was pointless you either missed or not a big return
there too many parameters when it came to 2hrs. I played every job in ffxi and varring levels and did a good portion of end game stuff . I rarely if ever saw ppl rely on 2hrs. Only rdm for stun, pld for invis, and whm to prevent death as well as dnc. But even still most of them were not very powerfull or too powerfull.

The ones that were too good were also the most wanted. And everything else took a back seat. This is one thing I never wanted to see again and that is "jobs of the week/year" I don't want to be forced to play a certain way or with certain jobs, for reason of being "needed". I could barely do anything wuth my mnk or dncer cuz ppl said those were good enough for stuff I wanted to do. Same for getting told how to play rdm. :/

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No one said they would be the same per class nor is there any reason they would be inherently unbalanced. Adding them doesn't in itself create any serious cons unless you mean some jobs having situationally desired skills which is a consequence of class uniqueness in general.

In FFXI many skills where never rebalanced after launch. The devs here have a better opportunity. No matter how useless you think a 2Hr was, at some point EVERY one of them has kept me from dying.

The bottom line is 2hrs (whatever recast they end up being), add class uniqueness and flavor to the game. Go for it Devs.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

It is my reason NOT to have 2hr or defined classes. Learn to keep up.

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You have spamed this post 65 times. Learn to shut up.

Most of what you have to say is wrong or misinformation.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

would be useless addition imo and Ak said nothing correctly or forgot major cons of 1/2 of what they said.

rdm 2hr is only good if you have mana.
blu 2hr is only good with certain spell set ups.
ninja 2hr was useless (as death in a fight was pointless)
dnc was useless unless you were healing.
blm was useless as casting was slow and even if you spammed you still would gey aggro (dead blm is a useless blm)
pld is useless if you don;t have hate or near dead to begin with.
whm got aggro no matter what
sam got aggro no matter what
cor is to random
brd was pointless
smn was too over powered and was a complete lie based on description.
war was useless as unless you had epic acc you miss every swing just about.
mnk same thing w/o acc you miss alot
thf rarely get aggro in a fight and even still theuir 2hr barely last long enough to survive anything
puppetmaster was pointless unless your puppet was out with decent attachments
drg was pointless if no dragon was out.
sch was useless all it did was what the strag did

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What are you talking about? You couldn't be more wrong, also, invincible gave you an INSANE amount of enmity when activiated, why wouldn't you have hate from it? Every 2 hour besides blu's and pups were "oh shit" buttons and saved you/your party easily. Even thfs, drks and nins 2 hour could save your life in a solo situation. I would be less careful when my 2 hour was up on NIN, knowing I could just suicide and save myself an exp loss.

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Same for getting told how to play rdm.

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OOOH you're one of THOSE people. The person who doesn't play their job properly and gets yelled at for doing so. I'm sorry to hear that, but you should probably listen to people when they give you advice on how to improve yourself. There is no "telling you how to play RDM", there's only "Playing RDM properly". Want to melee? Play a DD, blu, or dnc, want to be a buffer/debuffer/dispeller/backup healer/hybrid/support? RDM.

When entering a Dungeon. Your currently equipped class and skill grants you a specific 2 hour ability to use once while in the dungeon that automatically takes up the last open box you have on your skill bar.

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Originally Posted by derekx

You have spamed this post 65 times. Learn to shut up.

Most of what you have to say is wrong or misinformation.

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You have to learn to just not pay attention to her. She hasn't even played the game, yet she somehow has racked up a ton of posts (possibly the most on the English-speaking forums) spreading not only misinformation but also headache-inducing bad spelling/grammar.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the possibility on 2 hour ability straight from the development team! Without further ado here's is what Akihiko Matsui, the FINAL FANTASY XIV Battle lead, had to say!

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Try a 30 min recast.
2 hours was too long in FFXI.
30 minutes would seem like a reasonable amount of time to me.
It's just enough to make you want to save it just incase, though it's not too much it's going to have us taking two hour breaks if we fail a mission.

Also, what about the possibility of resetting these abilities in town or through an item.
That way if we do do a mission, like say BCNM from FFXI. and we need to reset the two hour for use again without the need for just sitting around.

The necklace could reset each week and have 7 uses, one for each day.
Could be a gift to all players, or acquired through a quest. 24 hour recast on the necklace.

I'd personally like to see 20 min, lol. but that might take away from the overall goal of these abilities.

Awesome news.
And to the ones that want extra short recast timers (20 minutes? lol), remember that the shorter the recast, the less powerful the ability needs to be. It's a simple matter of balancing.

No times a billion.

A skill you can use that rarely might as well not be in the game at all.

Just a question, but why does time have to be the only limiting factor for these class-specific abilities?? Why not do away with "2HR", "1HR", "30MIN", and instead use something else.

• Disciples Of War - can use class exclusive abilities when HP is at 100%.
• Disciples Of Magic - can use class exclusive abilities when MP is at 100%.

This adds the capability to recharge the abilities at Aetheryte Camps (but not in the middle of levequests), and actually requires some forethought, strategy, skill, and teamwork to successfully have the abilities available in the midst of combat.

Dungeons would be so distant from Aetheryte Camps that it would be a small timesink to run to the nearest Aetheryte, recharge, then run through a dungeon again. You could use Anima to reduce that timesink though, if your were inclined to do so. But at a certain point you would run out.

Just thinking outside the box.

For a group of people who complain nonstop that Rift is a WoWClone, you sure seem to want to make FFXIV an FFXIclone even though they're very different games - and I happen to like them that way.

Yes, 2 Hour Abilities added identity to each job - but that was a long time ago and, Vana'diel separation anxiety aside, we have a new game now.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Just a question, but why does time have to be the only limiting factor for these class-specific abilities?? Why not do away with "2HR", "1HR", "30MIN", and instead use something else.

• Disciples Of War - can use class exclusive abilities when HP is at 100%.
• Disciples Of Magic - can use class exclusive abilities when MP is at 100%.

This adds the capability to recharge the abilities at Aetheryte Camps (but not in the middle of levequests), and actually requires some forethought, strategy, skill, and teamwork to successfully have the abilities available in the midst of combat.

Dungeons would be so distant from Aetheryte Camps that it would be a small timesink to run to the nearest Aetheryte, recharge, then run through a dungeon again. You could use Anima to reduce that timesink though, if your were inclined to do so. But at a certain point you would run out.

Just thinking outside the box.

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I see what you mean, but those kind of conditions would prohibit using your abilities when you really needed them. When things are going south and you need a powerful ability odds are HP and MP have fallen well below 100%.

Yes, Please.

im in favor to anything that gives more uniqueness to the current classes.
Overpowered or not , 2h recast or not.As long as its a class move that you can be identified with , ill approve.
"new 2h ability introduced, all classes become invincible for a short time, recast 2h "
/wrist

^^

2 hour abilities no thanks. Maybe give each class special abilities after EACH job quest, something you are taught by the guild. This ability would be a 30 min recast, no 2hr, 2hr is just to much.

Depending on the future circumstances and gameplay, i would say 30min - 1hr abilities would be fine. Especially for open-world & such.

However SE said they would have us use the ability once per dungeon. So why not make dungeon-specific abilities that reset after each run, or just simply reset the timer when starting anew.
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Recasts need to be long enough so that you can't just raise up, wait it out then go at it again and use the special ability once more. Thats why 2 hours is perfect for the future of the game, it would be an amazing addition to bolster class uniqueness and strategy alike.

I liked the 2 hour abilities. Some of them were kind of, erm, duds a little bit, but some of them were incredibly good. The long cooldown really gave some weight to them, and the power of them really made using them feel like an event in and of itself in the right situation.

Like when a white mage was out of mp, the mob was at a sliver of health, as was the whole party, and was mid cast on a tier 3 -ga spell. Using benediction at that time was just an awesome way for the game to play out.

Or a skilled red mage using chainspell, and dominating the battle for 30 seconds in pretty much any situation. If that was any less than a 2 hour cooldown, it would have taken away from the intense feel of that ability, not to mention it would have been brokenly overpowered on a 5 or 10 min timer.

And the ever potent paladin two hour, invincible. It was a great compliment to the more severe death penalty in FFXI. Nobody wanted to die. And not like in FFXIV where it's like, oh well. People really did not want to die a bunch because it cost them a bunch of time sp'ing. So when things looked really bleak, suddenly the paladin turns invincible and pulls a massive amount of hate, and that lets the party either flee a hopeless situation or regain their composure and regroup. It was just awesome in the right situation.

Not to mention the offensive ones like hundred fists, astral flow, or that warrior one that made every hit automatically critical. You can just feel the impact things like that have as you watch them shred off a significant chunk of the mobs hp.

I miss a lot of the details that FFXI had, and some of the atmosphere and 'feel' of the game that this game has yet to really develop. But I do think it has more than enough potential laid out to get there, and things like a 2 hour feature really do help give each class their own distinct feel, and many of them really made you identify your character as a strong adventurer, not some peon soldier who specializes in running fetch quests for npcs. Sometimes you need a trump card to really establish that identity.

When you get too used to seeing abilities they become routine and less impressive, but when each class has a seldom used, prohibitively high cost ability, it's like a trump card or secret weapon. It was just nice to have that layer in the game. Plus, knowing that NM's often shared those abilities, the power of which you were well acquainted with, added a certain intimidation factor that the tough mobs need to have to keep you engaged in the battle. It's just not the same if it's just some generic mob move that players don't have at their disposal, but when you develop an appreciation of it through the use of it, suddenly that hundred fists, astral flow, or chainspell move seems a lot deadlier when the NM unleashes it.

At least that's my take on it... There is room for other mechanics to replace the whole 2 hour system, and I'm open to trying new things... But I just hope they don't leave the void unfilled, because those abilities definitely had a substantial impact on the general feel of FFXI, and it was a good thing.

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Originally Posted by SnowTiger

Plus, knowing that NM's often shared those abilities, the power of which you were well acquainted with, added a certain intimidation factor that the tough mobs need to have to keep you engaged in the battle. It's just not the same if it's just some generic mob move that players don't have at their disposal, but when you develop an appreciation of it through the use of it, suddenly that hundred fists, astral flow, or chainspell move seems a lot deadlier when the NM unleashes it.

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I completely forgot about that for some reason, mobs sharing 2hr abilities on key fights did intensify battle quite alot, (i.e. Maat Fights). Just another reason why their place in combat was so pivotal especially in "zerg" fights.

I really couldn't care less to be honest, so I would have to say No, I would sooner they balanced the classes properly instead of trying to blindside us by giving us an OMG so powerful move.

I loved the ideas of two hours, ultimate ability to save a party, just some of them were sorta weak (drk, war) I hope they bring them back.

They dont necessarily have to have 2hr cool down times, but if they are abilities that are 100% exclusive to that class and are actually useful (dont do anything that current skills already do), i'm all for it. On the subject of people complaining about elitism, the solution is simple: Play with other people. Besides, as long as you do a good job in the fight, I doubt anyone will truly care about your character set up.


Anything that helps to balance out the current classes, as well as add to their individuality, i'm all for.

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Originally Posted by Anathiel

I loved the ideas of two hours, ultimate ability to save a party, just some of them were sorta weak (drk, war) I hope they bring them back.

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DRK had one of the most broken 2 hours in the game and WAR/SAM activating 2 hour and using 2 WS = massive damage. Honestly the only 2 hours that were underpowered were BLM, PUP, and BLU.

But yeah, I don't see the issue with giving a unique emergency skill for every class with a very high cooldown. 2 hours in XI were enough to save lives and turn fights around when used properly but they weren't an easy win button nor were they useless. I seriously don't understand the mentality if some the people in this thread saying "Oh it's such a high CD I'll never use it why bother having it" "Oh it's overpowered" "Oh it's underpowered". Then again this is FFXIV general after all, where people are against the convenience of auction houses, reworking of classes, and anything else that makes sense and could possibly improve the game.

As long as they arent direct copies of "limit break" 2hr style skills from XI (Invincible, Mighty Strikes, etc.). Create something new for the classes, that sounds like a skill that they would actually have.

\signed ...I'm all for more class uniqueness. Don't get me wrong, I really wanted a FF Tactics builds for an MMO .. and still do!

This just gives one a little more though to what your "base" job will be.

YES PLEASE!

I'm not going to take this guy's post too literal. I'm sensing he/she (did not check so I didn't want to offend) just meant something similar to a 2hour, because the max I think anyone would wait for an ability in this game in 30 mins, and they already gimped some of our best overpowered spells/abilities (punishing barbs). I would be for an ability that had a cd time of at least 10 mins and at maximum 30 mins, which were highly useful. As of now you can use the mage mp regain ability every 10 mins, this is sort of like convert without the hp loss, and with a set amount of mp you will get back. If you give us an ability to use lets say all THM based spells with no mp cost for 30-60 seconds, and it could be used every 20 mins (and they gave our mobs some hp, that would be nice) that would be cool. And Conj would have an ability it could use every 20 mins where its conj spells did not cause enmity, go nuke and cure happy. Stuff that is kinda useful, not too overpowered due to the time constraint, this is what I want that is similar to a two hour.

I like the concept of "oh shit" ability and enjoyed FFXIs 2 hours, but I do really think 2 hour for a cool down is a bit too long. Put it on a 2 hour cool down initially and have epic quest lines to reduce the timers on set intervals at certain points during the chain. Kind of like unlocking weaponskills I guess. I think eventually a 30 or 40 minute cool down would be about right.

[Self-Destruct]
Available on Rank 1
MP Cost: 0
TP Cost: 0
Cast Time: 5 secs
Range: 1+(Level/4)
Cast on Self.
Use all your energy, bringing everything around you to the lifestream. Reborn after two hours. Does not deal dage against some monster (NMs)
Damage: (Health Points x Anima x Guardian Spirit x Level) / 10000
Cooldown: Characte is completely unusable for two hours.

Superlike?

Well, let's think about this for a few moments. Many of us like the idea of a class-exclusive "2HR-like" ability that can be used to save the party's bacon when an encounter gets out of hand.

But we have two healing classes ... Thaumaturge and Conjurer. Which class gets the exclusive & unique ability to heal all party members? Which one gets the exclusive & unique ability to cast lots of spells really fast with no regard to MP?

Those are two definitive party-bacon-saving abilities. But because the Armory System classes are non-specialized (by design), exclusively unique abilities are hard to make fit. We may have to wait for Yoshida-san's "Job System" before we see anything like FFXI 2HR abilities.

Unique class traits, instead of abilities, would work better with Armory Classes.

Unique "2HR-like" abilities would work better with Job Systems (titles, trees, specialization, etc ... whatever implementation).

But what if we "stacked" the two systems ... and with them the two "uniques".

A character equipped with a lance (i.e. a Lancer) and gets the "Piercing Charge" trait which allows her to hit multiple enemies in a straight line. Through a title, a specialization tree, or a Sorting Hat, that character also has the job "Berserker". Berserkers gets a unique "2HR-like" ability that works just like Mighty Strikes (maybe scaling to double, triple, & quadruple damage depending on level). Call it "Berserk Strikes".

So this character can combine her unique trait from her class, with her unique ability from her job to make a semi-unique "2HR-like" ability (Piercing Berserker Strike!!). With it, she can demolish a column of enemies when she activates it. In a party with Archers and/or Thaumaturges that can bind enemies in place, you can begin developing kiting tactics and tanking strategies for killing groups of enemies in various formations.

That's just off the top of my head, so please don't judge me too harshly.

Quoting entire post because I fully agree with it and it doesn't seem like many read it.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

If the development team does implement a "2HR-like" ability for each class they have to be extremely careful. There are MANY dangers and pitfalls.

1. Abilities from some classes are more powerful/effective/useful than from other classes. This would lead to classes becoming "lol<class-name>" and shunned from parties.
2. Demand for a particular ability creates artificial demand in parties for the class with that ability. Party members would not be chosen for their skill with a class or role (e.g. Summoner), but instead simply because they have that ability (e.g. Astral Flow). If a player has already used that ability, they are no longer useful, and thus removed from the party and unable to get into another party until that ability is available again.
3. Abilities are "too balanced" and become virtually identical. As such, they would not contribute to class-uniqueness, and thus be counter-productive.

The tactical benefits of any additional ability (whether 2HR-like or not) are clear. Having more options in combat is always positive. But the permanent social implications and drawbacks (as demonstrated by the venomous debate of the preceding pages) might do more harm than any temporary tactical advantage that these abilities provide is worth.

I am on the fence, to be honest. If the choice was between "2HR-class abilities" or "constant class traits" like Marauder's Steadfast Stance. I would go with traits, as they would be easier to balance, and have fewer social pitfalls.

An example would be if Lancers had a "Piercing Charge" trait that allowed them to always hit multiple enemies as long as they were in a straight line in front of them. Something like that would add class distinctiveness and tactics (specifically the tactic of maneuvering).

Adding 2HR-class abilities is not as simple as it may seem. Class traits may be the better way to go.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings everyone! We have heard about the possibility of a 2 hour ability straight from the development team! Without further ado here's what Akihiko Matsui, the FINAL FANTASY XIV Battle lead, has to say!

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Im just so happy my thread got recognized yays ^^; and im so happy with the news! thanks Gildrein

I don't specifically have a problem with adding a job specific ability on a long timer. However if you do decide to add it, please think the abilities through very thoroughly! I hated 2 hours in FFXI because they were so unbalanced between jobs. Some jobs in XI got extremely overpowered 2 hours such as Rdm's chainspell and samurai's 2 hour as well. Where as some jobs got very lackluster ones, such as Blue mage and puppetmasters short duration self buff 2hr's. This made certain jobs very unfavourable in time limit battles with limited participants. Please don't let FFXIV have the same problem!

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Originally Posted by Xeno

Being invincible for 30 seconds wasn't useful? Doing 5 minutes worth of attacks in 30 seconds wasn't useful? Completely healing your entire party wasn't useful?

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Hate to say this, but the only useful 2 hrs were Invincible, Benediction, Chainspell, Perfect Dodge, Trance, Tabula Rasa, Meikyo Shisui, Wild Card, Hundred Fists and Astral Flow (after Alexander was made a special summon)

Mijin Gakure was only useful for a free death warp/removing weakness, Sidewinder/Slug Shot did more damage than Eagle Eye Shot, and Azure Lore was only good for a single spell. Spirit Surge was helpful in a bind, but cost you your wyvern for it's duration (possibly longer), Manafont was good, but not always useful due to casting times, Bloodweapon was only useful if you had a low delay or multihit weapon equipped, and Familiar despite lasting longer than all other 2 hrs combined would wear off if your pet died, which could happen often at high levels. The remaining ones, I don't think I ever used

In summary, only about half of the available two hours were really worth using, the rest were either mediocre or just useless. As Sorel pointed out, it created favoritism of certain jobs among players, so there was no reason to try new party setups, even when the ideal setups were unavailable. (which was one reason why you could be sitting in towns for your entire gaming session lfg)

To that end, I don't think I would want 2 hrs.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

cuz no one played them correctly in a full rdm sence. AkA making them backline mages when infact a rdm was not a backline class. They wore meduim armor and used swords. Healing skill was one of their weaker skills. And ppl got made when I refused to backline because I stunk at it due to boredum.

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I feel the same way, I had a hornetneedle for my rdm, and I could do some crazy damage using it with a tier II enspell, Haste, and Composure up, and I could use Energy drain to supplement my mp pool and convert, but even with a sch in the party, the ppl I played with would whine if I started fighting, even when I was keeping up a buff cycle. They never could counter my arguments for why I should be in the front row. In the end, it was the reason why I established myself as a rng, and why I went dnc when that job became available.

The problem with "2h" or "strong, one time" abilities is that it is quite hard if not impossible to balance and design content. I am sure FFXI players remember how 2h's of certain jobs were abused to make encounters easier, even in ways that the developers did not intend. If the devs have to design encounters with the use of 2h in mind, it also created an artificial timesink considering you 'need' to have the 2h to beat the content in the way the developers intended.

Thus I would like it if the "2h" of this game were a lot more situational and not nearly as strong as with some jobs in XI. Perhaps something along the lines of the weakest 2h's in XI would suffice to balance things out. I would not mind if they were simply "iconic" abilities that are not 'stronger' than any other ability, but simply have a longer cooldown.

Either way, whatever the developers decide to do, I hope they can avoid the problem of imbalance that comes as a side-effect with too strong abilities.

I would definitely welcome 2hrs. It brought a uniqueness to your class and saved your hide a lot, especially when soloing.

YES!

BRING BACK FFXI ELEMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would prefer if these big cooldowns were in the realm of 30 minutes for reasons that Betelgeuzah stated. I don't want to relive waiting around waiting for our 2 hour so we can zerg <insert hnm here>.

You just cannot balance interesting encounters when you have to consider the use of a really strong ability that can be used every 2 hours. XI is proof of this.

Need I mention Absolute Virtue?

I would love it if they did the 2 hrs. It was all about tactics and using them in the right situation. OR, they could add race specific abilities like in oblivion. I would be happy to see something that either adds tactical gameplay, or role specificity.
;)