New Job: Viper

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Awful name

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Amazing name. Finally something creative, not like Ninja or Samurai that was recycled in so many games and popular culture.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

https://www.ffxionline.com/filedata/fetch?id=1463624

Knew I'd seen that stance before.

Funny that they talk about having a fast playstyle with it, yet the trailer makes it seem slow (I know they normally do this, but could have had a faster pace to point out the speed).

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Good catch, I'm curious what the second idle stance looks like now.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Name a job using a spear "Dragoon" and no one bats an eye.
Name a job using 2 sword "Viper" and suddenly it's a bad name.



The trailer is meant to take a first look at the animations, they wait a good 2 seconds before using an oGCD but in-game you'll be able to weave it much faster.
We won't see its final gameplay until 7.0, even job actions is subject to change.

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Not what I was getting at but go off I guess if it makes you feel better

Also, I hope for your sake you're not thinking that it's named Dragoon because Dragons......

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

Also, I hope for your sake you're not thinking that it's named Dragoon because Dragons......

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I actually did think that it was a translation issue from the Japanese "Dragon Knight". Is that not true? I can't imagine they're named after real life Dragoons.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

Good catch, I'm curious what the second idle stance looks like now.

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Hopefully something I won't hate when I see it on a female character. I swear male characters get all the better melee weapon idle poses...

Please let me get that WAR idle stance :(

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Originally Posted by Abbie_

different weapons might sheathe differently, like sage

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SGE can get away with that because their weapons float. With swords you have to grip them so the unsheathing animation is probably going to be the same for all Viper weapons for ease of implication.
My guess is they put Viper's swords on their back because NIN's weapons are on their hips and they need to differentiate the two more. ( 　ﾟ,_ゝﾟ)

It's a good name for a job in isolation but just barely relevant to this job from what we know so far. It's honestly one of the weakest jobs ever created in the game from a conceptual point of view. Looks cool though. And seems fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I actually did think that it was a translation issue from the Japanese "Dragon Knight". Is that not true? I can't imagine they're named after real life Dragoons.

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Short bit of lore, old school FF was super limited by how many characters could be in names/descriptors. Kanji got around a lot of that by doing (like you said) “dragon knight” which is waaay to long for the character limit. So, like many other weird quirks from those days, stuff gets retranslated and poof, “dragoon” it is.

You probably knew this, so this is more directed at anyone interested rather than you specifically!

Wait til we get an Organics AND Ogre Nix!

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Originally Posted by Duskane

probably the only thing that annoys me how in game the swords are on your back but in the cinematic its on your sides

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This is my biggest gripe as well, swords on the back isn't cool and even less practical.
Swords on the waist is much better and fits with PLD/NIN.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

This is my biggest gripe as well, swords on the back isn't cool and even less practical.
Swords on the waist is much better and fits with PLD/NIN.

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Some have actually created practical sheathes for the sword stored on their backs.

This one YT about medieval stuff even made an example out of wood.(then we have many who think Clives thick strappable ring of leather was enough)

but I would agree on having the option be on the sides. but again, ninja much.
Maybe we'll see more when they release more details in jp.

Honestly we are missing the big picture for Viper and the new caster. Leveling it from 80-90 is gonna be lame without a level 90 bozja/zadnor to see a bunch of fun loving idiots beating up mobs :(

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I actually did think that it was a translation issue from the Japanese "Dragon Knight". Is that not true? I can't imagine they're named after real life Dragoons.

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Off topic but Dragoon's different iterations are an interesting case study of how that FF world interprets the dragon knight concept. （*´▽｀*）
The idea of Dragoons/Dragon Knights were first introduced in Final Fantasy II as an order of dragon-riding knights who wielded lances, giving them some semblance to IRL Dragoons, who were cavalier units that occasionally used polearms (they were more famous for using firearms and sabers). The English translation went with Dragoon because it's shorter.

They would then be introduced in III as a playable job, where their Jump ability and polearm proficiency would be codified, with the name Dragoon coming from their mastery of the skies like a dragon.

IV's Dragoons were also once dragon riders and Baron's main attack force but with the advent of airships, they were then delegated to the kingdom's defense force, ditching their dragons to instead hone their bodies to jump as high instead. Kain also is the one who codified Dragoon's signature purple/navy armor.

V's Dragoon would stay the course gaining Lance/DragonSword/Lancet, an ability that strikes enemies with the power of a dragon, draining them of HP and MP.

Tactic's Dragoon would focus more on jumping, being able to increase both the vertical and horizontal ranges of their Jumps with the only mentioning of dragons coming from their Dragonheart ability.

IX's Freya and Dragon Knights would introduce knowledge in dragon-slaying to Dragoon's identity.

XI would be the first time a Dragoon would fight with an actual dragon pet, albeit a baby dragon.

And then XIV's DRG, which are an order of dragon slaying knights, going under rigorous training and using powers they unknowingly gained from Ishgard's past betrayal. The most skilled Dragoon would then be chosen to wield the power of the Eye of Nidhogg and gain the legacy title of The Azure Dragoon.
°˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

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Originally Posted by Rychu

Honestly we are missing the big picture for Viper and the new caster. Leveling it from 80-100 is gonna be lame without a level 90 bozja/zadnor to see a bunch of fun loving idiots beating up mobs :(

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Dawntrail does have an exploratory zone. Though it's actually unclear when you'll unlock it ig? I wasn't here for the launch of other exploratory zones.

Have to admit, i'm disappointed.. wanted sword and pistol .. :(

As far as the name goes, this is what comes to mind. Don't know how many of you know this story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-resJZSfr9E

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

Dawntrail does have an exploratory zone. Though it's actually unclear when you'll unlock it ig? I wasn't here for the launch of other exploratory zones.

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They don't come on release, so they won't be available for a while.

However, we are guaranteed to get a earring for extra EXP and, if you can 'persuade' a tank or healer friend to join you, you can run through dungeons pretty quickly and it shouldn't take too long to level to 90.

Now that I think about it, some of us, even I liked the Rougeish HW Thancred aesthetic.
They likely looked for something close to it.
Since he was always the Core of it with ROG/NIN. Though eventually going GNB out of necessity. His core dual wield was there.
(what could of been, if his magic wasn't fully Fd.)

Which is why may would get AC, or adjacent vibes.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

They don't come on release, so they won't be available for a while.

However, we are guaranteed to get a earring for extra EXP and, if you can 'persuade' a tank or healer friend to join you, you can run through dungeons pretty quickly and it shouldn't take too long to level to 90.

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Is SE expecting us to spam Eureka Orthos, like we had to for RDM/SAM in POTD back in SB? That sounds... not fun

The jacket from the job trailer makes me think more of Shay Cormac than Edward Kenway ngl.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

The jacket from the job trailer makes me think more of Shay Cormac than Edward Kenway ngl.

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Play Viper, roll 99 on every roll from then on. "I make my own luck!"

This i did not expect at all.
Another Dual Wielding class was totally out for me since Ninja.


But then dual-hands and then double-edge? I love both things on their own: Bladedancers in Lineage 2, The twinblades in Dark Souls 2/3, and lastly Zidane is one of my favorites as FFIX protagonist goes and he does equipo two-swords or twinblades. I even role my PLD with invisible shield so he can looks like "fending swordsman" more than a knight.

This is my first time since launch that im actually interested in coming Job, hyped even some would say.
Im totally leveling this and considering it as my future main depending on how i get it to run on the controller, but from the looks of it, this is it for me best job ever.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

This is my biggest gripe as well, swords on the back isn't cool and even less practical.
Swords on the waist is much better and fits with PLD/NIN.

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There are cases where a back-slung scabbard is the more practical just to keep out of your way. You see this more often in people who have to deal often with considerable slopes or just using far longer weapons in general, especially if wearing a backpack already (which then reduces the variation in its resting angle as you have to bend during climbs or descents).

But, you don't take a scabbard meant to release its sword through a constrained pull and place it somewhere that's impossible to do with any but the shortest weapons. That leaves you with two options.

The cheaper and far, far, far more common is to just also carry a shorter, less cumbersome weapon on one's hip to use for actual emergencies, and then sling the back-worn weapon off, unsheathe it, and toss the scabbard aside to pick up again after their fight. Even caught off guard, especially if you had anyone to take some pressure off you, you could usually thumb the strap on your back-slung scabbard to get it widened or even fully released while still using your sidesword.

The other is a scabbard actually designed to be used from the back. That, however, is a whole different beast, requiring that the blade can be released through the side of the scabbard, usually through a pressure release (pull out slightly, pull sword against the inside edge of the top of the scabbard to pull on a bit that releases the catch from the other side of the scabbard, etc.) or something similar.

And scabbards don't matter when everyone but samurai has their weapons just sorta float near their bodies anyway.

The name reminds me of maplestory.
In KR version the pirate class is called Viper and NA verison its called Corsair.

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Originally Posted by Palladiamors

Largely does not equal all and there are still XI players who want to see their favorite jobs return. Call it wishful thinking.

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A lot of us still chill in XI or just quit, moved on from XI. One of the reasons many (Not all) cling onto XI, is due to all the weird a$$ $hit in XIV lol. We know XIV is a far cry from XI.....and we know all the BS XIV players deal with in XIV in terms of current quality. Like many XI players, I will do the XIV story, then go back to XI or play Sonic Superstars or some $hit.

Viper does not shock me at all...it is weird, nobody asked for it, and many wanted something other than what Yoshi implements....sounds like the XIV I knew since 2013......

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Originally Posted by Duskane

probably the only thing that annoys me how in game the swords are on your back but in the cinematic its on your sides

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I am not a Dev.

Do NOT take this as a promise.

But have a look at SGE. While they all sheathe on your back, there are THREE forms of SGE weapon sheathing. The four points on an X pattern (the first stage Mander Relics did this one), the "wings" four upright across your back (the current/second stage Mander does this one, as did HydEx's and the Bluespirit Wings), and then a 4 stacked slashes (as in / just leaning near horizontal) from top to bottom.

...so just a THOUGHT, but it might be possible that SOME of theirs sheathe one way and some sheath the other. So the some weapons might do the cross X over the back while some others do a hip sheathe.

Again, do NOT take this as any sort of promise, but I was kind of surprised with SGE how diverse the different weapons are in their sheathing, since it's the only Job to date that does this...but maybe there will be more.

(Well, if we don't include WHM/BLM ARR 1-handed weapons sheathing like GLD/PLD sword and shields do, anyway.) But it COULD be something they're considering going forward. At the very least, with SGE, we've seen alternate sheathing patterns can exist on a given Job. It could even be part of the graphics update and character model work they're doing and SGE was just the testbed.

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Originally Posted by Abbie_

different weapons might sheathe differently, like sage

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Ah, someone beat me to it. But yeah, point stands. :D

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

idk, everything about it screams "build up gauge with swords, then switch to the big hits with the single two-handed weapon. repeat". Unless they do something really unique and add an interesting mechanic like BLM has. Not sure what they would look like on a melee dps though.

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I gave my own example, but the short version would be dual wield attacks like Umbral Ice to build resources, combined double-blade big slow attacks like Astral Fire to lay out the hurt. I don't know why a Melee couldn't do that just as BLM does. Have your "Umbral Ice" phase use the combo attacks to build gauge instead of MP, but it's otherwise the same mechanic. The combined blade attacks could have a longer GCD and maybe more strict positionals to reflect BLM's fire casts being slower and longer, but in terms of combat mechanics, a Melee can do that as well as a BLM can (and Ranged, Tank, or even Healer, honestly). And if it works for BLM, it should work for anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

Not what I was getting at but go off I guess if it makes you feel better

Also, I hope for your sake you're not thinking that it's named Dragoon because Dragons......

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Dragoon generally translates to "Dragon Knight". So...it actually does, in fact, have something to do with Dragons. The general lore is that their fighting style was to mimic dragons, with FFXIV's spin being specifically to do this to better harm them. But either way you slice it, the name Dragoon was, in fact, named because Dragons. So CKNovel is right on the money with that one.

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Originally Posted by Mayhemmer

Hopefully something I won't hate when I see it on a female character. I swear male characters get all the better melee weapon idle poses...

Please let me get that WAR idle stance :(

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Female DRK stances is better, imo (sword stabbed into the ground instead of the Cloud across the shoulder stance), and I think the female GNB stance is OFTEN better (the male one with feet together and sword kind of hanging at the side just looks off to me somehow). Both genders have good PLD stances too, I think. Honestly, I'd like it if they let us cycle between all 3 of combat, male, and female idles.

Ngl I was disappointed that the new job wasn't Corsair, but I will give viper a go.

Does he come to vipe my vindows?

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Originally Posted by Abbie_

different weapons might sheathe differently, like sage

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while that is a possibility they should probably match what was shown since its the same weapon

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Originally Posted by Duskane

while that is a possibility they should probably match what was shown since its the same weapon

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It won't necessarily be the same weapon, though.

It is possible there will be different sword types of different shapes/lengths, that are sheathed respectively at the waist or across the back.

Just look at the difference between Sage's "milpreves" (cross pattern), "wings" (vertically flared), and "pendulums" (diagonally lined up).

I could see the job putting more "saber" type blades at the hips, with more "broadsword" type blades across the back. But honestly there are a lot of directions they could go. I'm more inclined to believe that at this point, given that I have seen at least one example of swords crossed over the back, and I think it would be really weird for them not to have settled on a single sheathing position by now, especially one that contradicts the main trailer.

Plus I think Sage and Reaper were viewed as successed when it comes to "modularity", i.e. having several different ways for players to express themselves with the same weapon. So I would be surprised if SE didn't at least explore the option of having both sheathing options, because of the two I absolutely believe cross-over-back is going to sell buckets to a lot of casuals.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Does he come to vipe my vindows?

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They come to vipe your prog parties

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Play Viper, roll 99 on every roll from then on. "I make my own luck!"

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https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca88...L9CD5s5BPvdG10

Looks boring the job and not very impressive to me. Just a knockoff of Ninja and Rouge. We already have a job that uses 2 blades. I hope the next job is way better looking and more impressive.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

They come to vipe your prog parties

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Does that involve a squeegee and a bucket?

I don't think the weapons will be sheathed differently, because that would require two sets of sheath and draw animations. For Sage it doesn't matter since they don't physically hold the weapons. I'm hoping they pick the waist option because it looks better imo.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

But have a look at SGE. While they all sheathe on your back, there are THREE forms of SGE weapon sheathing. The four points on an X pattern (the first stage Mander Relics did this one), the "wings" four upright across your back (the current/second stage Mander does this one, as did HydEx's and the Bluespirit Wings), and then a 4 stacked slashes (as in / just leaning near horizontal) from top to bottom.

...so just a THOUGHT, but it might be possible that SOME of theirs sheathe one way and some sheath the other. So the some weapons might do the cross X over the back while some others do a hip sheathe.

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But SGE unsheathe animation are the same regardless of how the weapons are stored.
SQEX would need to do 2 unsheathe weapon, 2 unsheathe emote, 2 sheates emotes.

That would be welcome and I'd love this attention to detail but I have my doubts about having 2 different ways to sheathe for Viper.

41 belts have been counted.
For a job supposedly based on Zidane, it sure is very Nomura inspired.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

It won't necessarily be the same weapon, though.

It is possible there will be different sword types of different shapes/lengths, that are sheathed respectively at the waist or across the back.

Just look at the difference between Sage's "milpreves" (cross pattern), "wings" (vertically flared), and "pendulums" (diagonally lined up).

I could see the job putting more "saber" type blades at the hips, with more "broadsword" type blades across the back. But honestly there are a lot of directions they could go. I'm more inclined to believe that at this point, given that I have seen at least one example of swords crossed over the back, and I think it would be really weird for them not to have settled on a single sheathing position by now, especially one that contradicts the main trailer.

Plus I think Sage and Reaper were viewed as successed when it comes to "modularity", i.e. having several different ways for players to express themselves with the same weapon. So I would be surprised if SE didn't at least explore the option of having both sheathing options, because of the two I absolutely believe cross-over-back is going to sell buckets to a lot of casuals.

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i doubt that,what they shown is going to be the artifact weapon for viper
no different from other expansion

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Originally Posted by Renathras

But have a look at SGE. While they all sheathe on your back, there are THREE forms of SGE weapon sheathing. The four points on an X pattern (the first stage Mander Relics did this one), the "wings" four upright across your back (the current/second stage Mander does this one, as did HydEx's and the Bluespirit Wings), and then a 4 stacked slashes (as in / just leaning near horizontal) from top to bottom.

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CK already mentioned it but for SGE it doesn't matter how the weapons are arranged on their back, they all just float away and the animation is always the same. This doesn't work for any job that has to physically grab and move their weapon as it would require a completely different animation for drawing the swords from your back and drawing them from your hip...or they only make a single set of animations and have it look completely jank, which is rather unlikely.

To a certain extend you already have this issue with Paladin, the job has access to a mace glamour but still draws the weapon like a sword.

For a different example of them not having alternate weapon positions even if it would make sense, there are the shorter MCH guns like the Magnatus/Fae and Makai pistols, which are still stowed up on the shoulder the same way as a longer gun.