Please grow the MMO part of the game. End game is lousy.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Friend and I were actually discussing this during the LL. She brought up an example point that a good many single player focused players aren't going to play not because of the multiple aspect but the fact it requires a monthly sub.

Their whole focus on targeting this demographic really feels out of touch when the endgame content is largely barren beyond repeating the same Savage fights over and over again. That isn't to say they shouldn't expand on things like Trusts as I do believe those are worthwhile investments but it almost feels like they believe the massive boon in NA/EU is from single player gamers and not a good lot of them wanting a new MMO to play, especially the WoW influx.



If we're going by Aether's PF. There are far more High End raiding PFs than RP posts at prime hours. Seven weeks in and we're still averaging 50-80 PFs a day, if not 100. Of course that isn't to say NA is suddenly raid focused because it isn't. A lot of people just want more to do. And not necessarily difficult content either. When I look at 6.1, all I'm seeing is Ultimate and potentially this new dungeon. Everything else will be done in a week even if I only played for two hours a day. Stuff simply doesn't last.

Having a larger end game doesn't mean it has to be a massive grind fest. That's just a silly argument.

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Some of us DO want something to grind, though. Thats what was so good about Eureka. It was completely optional and was a place to go in and just grind away til your hearts content. In FFXIV there is currently very little to do that unless you just FATE grind. At the very least they could update FATEs to include things like Critical Engagements like Bozja had. A couple raid boss-type encounters in every zone would go a long way to freshening things up.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Well the devs did do a research survey that the majority of the player base would be in favor in having more ways for solo content. Dont know the specifics or where and how they got that data but it was something that was mentioned in the live letter and not just something that they pulled out of their butt. Honestly though the major thing that's going to occur is the fact that Trusts will be implemented in previous msq content; a system we already had in both Shadowbringers and now Endwalker and nobody is crying about it from what Ive seen.

Its not like the devs are going to abandon multiplayer content in general, this is an MMO after all. They're just trying to keep a good portion of their playerbase and future players happy to have more ways to play the game. Nobody is forcing you to do solo content if you dont want to. I for one dont bother with trusts when I level through dungeons because its a lot more fun and efficient to run with a group anyway and besides enticing new players who enjoy the solo aspect of Final Fantasy will also potentially entice them on the appeal of playing with friends, since they'll still be exposed to all other content as well as other players. This is how and why Dragon Quest X is such a huge deal over in Japan.

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I'm ok with them making soloing MSQ content a thing, but it should also come with more robust MMO-style activities particularly battle content. Right now its basically just raiding. I love raiding but I want something else to do when I'm not progging or reclearing fights every week.

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Originally Posted by JudgeRAW

I'm ok with them making soloing MSQ content a thing, but it should also come with more robust MMO-style activities particularly battle content. Right now its basically just raiding. I love raiding but I want something else to do when I'm not progging or reclearing fights every week.

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Which is fair. Although it looks like we're gonna have to wait till a good chunk of the post-Endwalker patches come to see new multi-player content to get ourselves engaged to. I mean 6.0 is still in its early stage. Meanwhile I'm busying myself going back and doing some of older grindier content Ive missed such as Eureka and Bozja along with each expansion's relic weapons as well as completing beast tribes. At least for me thats been holding me out for a good while and Ive still yet to farm FATES for some of the new rewards.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Well the devs did do a research survey that the majority of the player base would be in favor in having more ways for solo content. Dont know the specifics or where and how they got that data but it was something that was mentioned in the live letter and not just something that they pulled out of their butt. Honestly though the major thing that's going to occur is the fact that Trusts will be implemented in previous msq content; a system we already had in both Shadowbringers and now Endwalker and nobody is crying about it from what Ive seen.

Its not like the devs are going to abandon multiplayer content in general, this is an MMO after all. They're just trying to keep a good portion of their playerbase and future players happy to have more ways to play the game. Nobody is forcing you to do solo content if you dont want to. I for one dont bother with trusts when I level through dungeons because its a lot more fun and efficient to run with a group anyway and besides enticing new players who enjoy the solo aspect of Final Fantasy will also potentially entice them on the appeal of playing with friends, since they'll still be exposed to all other content as well as other players. This is how and why Dragon Quest X is such a huge deal over in Japan.

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The problem is, time and resources. Them spending time and resources on past content means we’re going to be seeing less new content in exchange. That’s how it’s always worked so everyone is affected.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is, time and resources. Them spending time and resources on past content means we’re going to be seeing less new content in exchange. That’s how it’s always worked so everyone is affected.

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I'm hopeful for a more robust endgame in Endwalker than we got in Shadowbringers just based on the roadmap they showed. That said no word on a new Exploratory zone or some equivalent does have me a little worried. Eureka (and to a lesser extent Bozja) were my favorite bits of the previous two expansions and it would upset me if we lost some sort of equivalent this expansion.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is, time and resources. Them spending time and resources on past content means we’re going to be seeing less new content in exchange. That’s how it’s always worked so everyone is affected.

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I mean thats just a given thing. At the end of the day, these devs are human beings. How long have people complained about them adjusting older content to better reflect the design quality and consistency of the newer expansions? They cant try to tackle everything at once, which was also something Yoshi-P addressed in the live letter that unfortunately content patches will be somewhat more sparse than before since he cares about making sure his team doesnt get burnout. The previous year was definitely a huge toll and challenge for them due to having to adjust the influx of new players. I mean just look at how bad the Endwalker launch was. Dont think its THAT unreasonable for us to be patient when were supposed to be content that this game doesnt have us constantly grind for terrible endgame progression systems such as in other MMOs. The patches will come, and I for one definitely look forward for 6.1. Right now there's other games that I can spend my time playing while were waiting for the next patch and I for one am happy FFXIV allows me to not feel like I need to play it 24/7. Just my own opinion on this "endgame lackluster".

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is, time and resources. Them spending time and resources on past content means we’re going to be seeing less new content in exchange. That’s how it’s always worked so everyone is affected.

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I believe when Yoshi P talked about getting budget for this, he was implying that SE gave him extra funds to make these changes. Meaning, more staff. I'm hopeful but I've been disappointed by other MMOs for turning their backs on us after they became successful. Yoshi P's teams don't seem to disappoint though.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

I believe when Yoshi P talked about getting budget for this, he was implying that SE gave him extra funds to make these changes. Meaning, more staff. I'm hopeful but I've been disappointed by other MMOs for turning their backs on us after they became successful. Yoshi P's teams don't seem to disappoint though.

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I wouldnt say they dont disappoint as they clearly have disappointed some of the player base here if we're going by the forums lol
BUT I still trust them that they're still ultimately looking into bettering the overall quality of this game. Call it copium if you will.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I wouldnt say they dont disappoint as they clearly have disappointed some of the player base here if we're going by the forums lol
BUT I still trust them that they're still ultimately looking into bettering the overall quality of this game. Call it copium if you will.

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I’m not getting my hopes up because this is what people said about ShB and…it was a disappointment to say the least content wise. And can’t even blame covid for it because a lot of things were confirmed not coming before it was even a thing.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I wouldnt say they dont disappoint as they clearly have disappointed some of the player base here if we're going by the forums lol
BUT I still trust them that they're still ultimately looking into bettering the overall quality of this game. Call it copium if you will.

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There's always going to be those disappointed because they've decided things should be a certain way instead of exploring and adapting to what the developers have created.

Quality is going to be subjective when not every player wants the same thing out of the game. Above all else, we need to remember that this is a Final Fantasy game and they're going to try to keep it true to what the Final Fantasy franchise is about. I'll admit I find it annoying on occasion (I strongly dislike easter eggs and homages to other games because I see it as lazy game design replacing originality) but I'm also willing to adapt as long as I still find the overall experience enjoyable.

If you're not enjoying a game, sometimes it's best to cut ties and devote your time to another game that is providing what you're looking for. That's what I ended up doing with WoW when all the systems changes over the years left the game less than enjoyable. It was hard to make the break but once I did, I felt better for it. It's still fun to occasionally check in to see what WoW is up to ( I still think about friends I left behind and hope they're finding enjoyment there) but any desire to invest time in WoW as a player has completely disappeared.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Hahahaha. Nice one. Having played from Burning Crusade through Battle for Azeroth, I can pretty much guarantee that WoW went too far down the soloable route in, um, 2004, when it released. I got extremely good at leveling alt characters classes over those ten years.

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Not to mention WoW and EQII came out nearly the same time and a key part of the marketing for both was how you had content that was completely solo where you could progress without the group-required design games like EverQuest had. So yeah, those games always had a solo avenue in mind. EQII had solo, group, and raid content. You hit a ceiling as a solo player where you had to segue into group content and then solo and group players hit a ceiling where they had to segue into raid content. Part of the reason I eventually left EQII was they started listening to the raid players who complained the solo and group content was too easy for them so they made it harder, putting it out of the reach of those who focused on that content. And they started putting in less and less for the solo questlines, so you hit that ceiling sooner because those who did raid content wanted more of it. I see similar arguments around these forums, and I've been grateful that the developers remain focused on their ideas of what this game is and what it isn't and work to have something for us all to enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There's always going to be those disappointed because they've decided things should be a certain way instead of exploring and adapting to what the developers have created.

Quality is going to be subjective when not every player wants the same thing out of the game. Above all else, we need to remember that this is a Final Fantasy game and they're going to try to keep it true to what the Final Fantasy franchise is about. I'll admit I find it annoying on occasion (I strongly dislike easter eggs and homages to other games because I see it as lazy game design replacing originality) but I'm also willing to adapt as long as I still find the overall experience enjoyable.

If you're not enjoying a game, sometimes it's best to cut ties and devote your time to another game that is providing what you're looking for. That's what I ended up doing with WoW when all the systems changes over the years left the game less than enjoyable. It was hard to make the break but once I did, I felt better for it. It's still fun to occasionally check in to see what WoW is up to ( I still think about friends I left behind and hope they're finding enjoyment there) but any desire to invest time in WoW as a player has completely disappeared.

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Well it's also why people become vocal about expressing their fears before it goes down in that direction. Quitting is ultimately an option, and probably a healthy one if the game fails to give you what you want out of it, but sometimes the hope is that the developers will avoid going down a route that makes that necessary in the first place.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The problem is, time and resources. Them spending time and resources on past content means we’re going to be seeing less new content in exchange. That’s how it’s always worked so everyone is affected.

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This is true, but I think getting the trust system "engine" in a more robust state is a worthwhile endeavor. Not only will it secure the game's play-ability long-term, but it will hopefully allow for the AI to be robust enough not to require tweaking for each individual dungeon. Again, ideally, this might mean less time wasting on AI fiddling for each individual instance.

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Originally Posted by JudgeRAW

I'm ok with them making soloing MSQ content a thing, but it should also come with more robust MMO-style activities particularly battle content. Right now its basically just raiding. I love raiding but I want something else to do when I'm not progging or reclearing fights every week.

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Deep dungeon.
Three 'Criterion' dungeons.
Ultimate and Unreal trials.
A new PvP mode.

There you go.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Deep dungeon.
Three 'Criterion' dungeons.
Ultimate and Unreal trials.
A new PvP mode.

There you go.

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He said something other than raiding. Ultimates and Unreal trials are still just…raiding,progging,recreating fights lol. In the case of unreal trials they are quite literally just reused fights that people have already done

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

He said something other than raiding. Ultimates and Unreal trials are still just…raiding,progging,recreating fights lol. In the case of unreal trials they are quite literally just reused fights that people have already done

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What then?
FATE farming (well, would be nice for FATEs to be a bit more fun to grind to be honest)?
Hunts?
Treasure dungeons?
More Bozja/Eureka?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Deep dungeon.
Three 'Criterion' dungeons.
Ultimate and Unreal trials.
A new PvP mode.

There you go.

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And even in this new content, healers won't be requiered. Criterion will probably have a lost action system, and iirc, healers will be nerfed into oblivion in their new pvp mode.
Ultimate is for less than 1%, and unreal is just old content.
I don't do deep dungeon but I think the holy trinity isn't needed there?

So if you're a healer like me, and many others, 6.1+ will have absolutely nothing interesting/new to offer.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

What then?
FATE farming (well, would be nice for FATEs to be a bit more fun to grind to be honest)?
Hunts?
Treasure dungeons?
More Bozja/Eureka?

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Well that’s the whole argument i’d imagine. Add something new to endgame that isn’t raiding and isn’t a boring snooze fest that hunt trains are. Same with Fates. Map dungeons are fun but unless you’re buying mass amounts you’re limited to 1 per day. Bozja/Eureka equivalent would be nice but if it follows ShB’s trend that won’t be until 6.35…aka more than a year after the games release.

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Originally Posted by Novae

And even in this new content, healers won't be requiered. Criterion will probably have a lost action system, and iirc, healers will be nerfed into oblivion in their new pvp mode.
Ultimate is for less than 1%, and unreal is just old content.
I don't do deep dungeon but I think the holy trinity isn't needed there?

So if you're a healer like me, and many others, 6.1+ will have absolutely nothing interesting/new to offer.

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Yep, and honestly this is what kills me about their recent solo game decision. If theyre going to be working towards making the game effectively a soloable game, then why is there the need to dumb down the healers and not give them more dps options? If people can solo things now theres no excuse to cater to the casual players who cant press more than 2 buttons. It's such weird logic and the fact yoshi p handwaved all of the healer concerns shows how much he doesnt care.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

He said something other than raiding. Ultimates and Unreal trials are still just…raiding,progging,recreating fights lol. In the case of unreal trials they are quite literally just reused fights that people have already done

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If Ultimate is just another raid then any other new battle content in this game will just be a variation of dungeons, trials, raid, fate, pvp, solo instances.
So what would you consider "new" battle contents then?

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Originally Posted by JudgeRAW

Some of us DO want something to grind, though. Thats what was so good about Eureka. It was completely optional and was a place to go in and just grind away til your hearts content. In FFXIV there is currently very little to do that unless you just FATE grind. At the very least they could update FATEs to include things like Critical Engagements like Bozja had. A couple raid boss-type encounters in every zone would go a long way to freshening things up.

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That's the thing though. I want something to grind too. Just not the same boring FATE grind they keep reintroducing. Critical Engagements did help elevate Bozja but it still largely focused on FATEs for the umpteenth time. My bigger complaint though is why they wait so damn long to introduce the relic. We're likely not getting it until 6.25, which won't release until roughly October. And that may be another pointless "here's your relic for 1,000 poetics" step. EW will have been out for almost an entire year and we're only just starting the relic. It always seems so backwards to me how the biggest grind this game has is backloaded.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Their tone leaves a lot to be desired, but they aren't entirely wrong. This game just isn't an endgame-centric MMO.

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Which is why the player base plummets after expansion release. There is not enough content to keep people interested and what is there is not great. This is what lead to WoWs fall and it will eventually lead to this game fall, and the devs will be left to develop the game for ERP players using the nude mods and living there furry fantasies.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Which is why the player base plummets after expansion release. There is not enough content to keep people interested and what is there is not great. This is what lead to WoWs fall and it will eventually lead to this game fall, and the devs will be left to develop the game for ERP players using the nude mods and living there furry fantasies.

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Hmmm, you're aware that it's been like that since HW (and it was at its worst at the release of HW with a massive downtime) and people still keep coming back ? Not excusing the abysmal lack of variety at endgame but doomsaying with no knowledge of what's been before is silly.

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Originally Posted by Fland

If Ultimate is just another raid then any other new battle content in this game will just be a variation of dungeons, trials, raid, fate, pvp, solo instances.
So what would you consider "new" battle contents then?

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I’m just saying what the previous poster was saying. He said something other than raiding which takes Ultimate and Unreal trials out. I don’t think anyone said anything against pvp. Some more overworld content would be nice though, as literally the only reason to visit the zones are for fates or hunt trains. Maybe add some open world dungeons, places to explore etc etc.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

He said something other than raiding. Ultimates and Unreal trials are still just…raiding,progging,recreating fights lol. In the case of unreal trials they are quite literally just reused fights that people have already done

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What about island sanctuary? I know they said 6.2 for that but the live letter was a VERY broad overview of what they have planned over a pretty long time. I would imagine there will be greater details in the lives letters for specific patches.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’m just saying what the previous poster was saying. He said something other than raiding which takes Ultimate and Unreal trials out. I don’t think anyone said anything against pvp. Some more overworld content would be nice though, as literally the only reason to visit the zones are for fates or hunt trains. Maybe add some open world dungeons, places to explore etc etc.

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Dont new dungeons normally come out over patches after the original msq?

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

Dont new dungeons normally come out over patches after the original msq?

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Yes, but even that has taken a hit. We used to get more dungeons per patch and they lowered that number down. We only get 1 dungeon per patch now, which if said dungeon doesn’t have unique gear people typically run it once for msq progress and that’s that.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I’m just saying what the previous poster was saying. He said something other than raiding which takes Ultimate and Unreal trials out. I don’t think anyone said anything against pvp. Some more overworld content would be nice though, as literally the only reason to visit the zones are for fates or hunt trains. Maybe add some open world dungeons, places to explore etc etc.

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Battle content is what the previous poster was asking for. I pointed all the new battle content that was announced during Live Letter 68, only to be told "no, man, I didn't mean THAT stuff ..."?

Battle content is battle content, Ultimate and Unreal raids are not your regularly scheduled raid tiers (8 man and 24 man). There's a new deep dungeon planned. There are these Criterion dungeons, which plenty of people have speculated upon but no one actually knows anything about at this point. All new battle content. I didn't even mention the regularly scheduled MSQ battle content.

So, the idea that players are "losing out" on Battle Content so that Trusts can be expanded in-game is a non-starter.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Which is why the player base plummets after expansion release. There is not enough content to keep people interested and what is there is not great. This is what lead to WoWs fall and it will eventually lead to this game fall, and the devs will be left to develop the game for ERP players using the nude mods and living there furry fantasies.

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Making A LOT of assumptions here. Again this game has been adamant with its philosophy for respecting players time with not having huge amounts of retention systems and in this day and age where a lot of us dont have that much time on our hands to dedicate MMOs as a full time job this is a godsend, which FFXIV has been working in their favor. I still support more content at the end of the day and FFXIV has kept a consistent schedule of patch updates. What killed WoW wasnt the endgame content, its the numeorous amount of grindy systems and catch up mechanics that wasted a lot of people of their time by making them so tedious to do that made people hate the game. At this point only die-hard fans of WoW still stick with them.

FFXIV only become insanely popular in the recent year BECAUSE of WoW's screw up finally catching up to them and the nature of streamers looking for a new MMO fix. FFXIV doesnt need to convert its game into the next retail WoW to be good, its been doing well for itself as it is and they gradually improve on it patch after patch. Either be patient or just seriously go play other games in your downtime. This is how this game has always been with its endgame content and so far its still working.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Battle content is what the previous poster was asking for. I pointed all the new battle content that was announced during Live Letter 68, only to be told "no, man, I didn't mean THAT stuff ..."?

Battle content is battle content, Ultimate and Unreal raids are not your regularly scheduled raid tiers (8 man and 24 man). There's a new deep dungeon planned. There are these Criterion dungeons, which plenty of people have speculated upon but no one actually knows anything about at this point. All new battle content. I didn't even mention the regularly scheduled MSQ battle content.

So, the idea that players are "losing out" on Battle Content so that Trusts can be expanded in-game is a non-starter.

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Yes because he said right now it’s just raiding, so i’m not sure why you would then bring up…raids. Unreal trials are literally just…extreme trials. They’re literally old trials that they amp up the hp and damage on, the mechanics are all the same. We’ll see when it’s actually out won’t we? Let’s not forget 2 ultimates were planned in ShB but then one got cancelled. They haven’t announced if we’ll be getting a eureka/bozja-like zone either, which could be taken away. Let’s not act like unreal are some new thing though as they are quite literally reused, something SE likes to do a lot lately it seems with the amount of reused gear this expansion but i digress. I’d say it’s a pretty understandable concern, considering the amount of content we missed out on in ShB. The devs themselves even said then that the time and resources put towards the arr rework would take away from some things. Don’t see why this is any different.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Making A LOT of assumptions here. Again this game has been adamant with its philosophy for respecting players time with not having huge amounts of retention systems and in this day and age where a lot of us dont have that much time on our hands to dedicate MMOs as a full time job this is a godsend,

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Meanwhile housing, where the system is quite literally a way to waste vast amounts of time clicking a placard and then needing to stay subbed to keep the house. Or msq quests that are literally there to waste your time running from one obscure location to the next. It really doesnt respect players' time as much as one may think.Personally since shb i havent seen much improvement from patch to patch. We're how many expansions in now and we still have the devs reusing gear in an expansion and not making it dyable, or cutting out a complete set of gear for a dungeon.

Their patch schedule has been anything but consistent. Also it's only grown in popularity because nothing has really challenged it. WoW is mired in dev issues and controversy. New World was doomed out of the gate. Lost Ark is too different. In short, 14 ironically is lucking out in just happening to be at the right place at the right time rather than due to amazing quality. Not dissimilar to WoW when it was released.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Their patch schedule has been anything but consistent. Also it's only grown in popularity because nothing has really challenged it. WoW is mired in dev issues and controversy. New World was doomed out of the gate. Lost Ark is too different. In short, 14 ironically is lucking out in just happening to be at the right place at the right time rather than due to amazing quality. Not dissimilar to WoW when it was released.

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There is a lot of things, then there is saying FFXIV is only popular cause it got lucky...

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Their patch schedule has been anything but consistent. Also it's only grown in popularity because nothing has really challenged it. WoW is mired in dev issues and controversy. New World was doomed out of the gate. Lost Ark is too different. In short, 14 ironically is lucking out in just happening to be at the right place at the right time rather than due to amazing quality. Not dissimilar to WoW when it was released.

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The patch schedule is super consistent. The evidence is there for itself in the patch history. You can go to any patch from Heavensward and predict the contents of the same patch in Stormblood and your predictions will be right. You can go to any patch in Stormblood and predict the contents of the same patch in Shadowbringers and it will be right. Aside from the few times they have added new content types, most of it is the same, right down to the minor pvp patches or "removed raid restriction" patches.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...patchnote_log/

This is also possible to do for the release dates - I have gone to patches from the previous expansion and identified the time between two patches to predict the release of an upcoming patch and I've always been right except the one covid delay and EW.

So consistent two expansions ago, or about 3 years ago. Not to mention in ShB relic was delayed, already more delayed than relic in SB which was delayed a patch from HW. Loss of an Ultimate. Just a year shy between raid tiers. More time spent gutting crafting/gathering. Wow ShB sure was a banger, and I am sure EW will be too right????

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Which is why the player base plummets after expansion release. There is not enough content to keep people interested and what is there is not great. This is what lead to WoWs fall and it will eventually lead to this game fall, and the devs will be left to develop the game for ERP players using the nude mods and living there furry fantasies.

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Correction. There's not enough main story quests to keep people interested. There's more than enough content to keep everyone occupied for a long time at every expansion but it's not their fault people opt to only play a few things, mainly the MSQ and ignore the rest. How many players completed all the side quests? What about the new mounts? What about the savage content? There's so many things to do, it's impossible to complete them all within the first month unless you really have no life. There's more than enough content to go around, it's just a bad excuse people make when they're done with the story.

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

Correction. There's not enough main story quests to keep people interested. There's more than enough content to keep everyone occupied for a long time at every expansion but it's not their fault people opt to only play a few things, mainly the MSQ and ignore the rest. How many players completed all the side quests? What about the new mounts? What about the savage content? There's so many things to do, it's impossible to complete them all within the first month unless you really have no life. There's more than enough content to go around, it's just a bad excuse people make when they're done with the story.

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It's not a bad excuse, it's true, because it's not intended for everyone to care about any and all type of content. Though this thread is specifically about "endgame" content, things unlocked after the MSQ, and we have Savage, that I personally reclear in 60~90mins/week, and Extremes, that have already been farmed a while back by most people. That's just 6 fights, 4 of them there's no incentive to run more than once a week and the 2 others already almost obsolete. That's not enough. Casual endgame, there's what, maps? It's normal for x.0 not to have that much endgame afaik, but because it's normal doesn't mean there's plenty of endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

So consistent two expansions ago, or about 3 years ago. Not to mention in ShB relic was delayed, already more delayed than relic in SB which was delayed a patch from HW. Loss of an Ultimate. Just a year shy between raid tiers. More time spent gutting crafting/gathering. Wow ShB sure was a banger, and I am sure EW will be too right????

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Did you think they just left out an Ultimate? Or do you think MAYBE it had anything to do with a pandemic pushing them out of their offices, trying to deal with a stricter lockdown in Japan than the US, all while trying to get the next expansion underway? Did you even see the roadmap? New PVP mode, New hard mode dungeons, new PotD, two confirmed Ultimates with hints at a third, raid tiers, 24-mans, Hildebrand, Tataru quest(whatever that is), island expedition... I swear this is just bait I'm falling for...

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Did you think they just left out an Ultimate? Or do you think MAYBE it had anything to do with a pandemic pushing them out of their offices, trying to deal with a stricter lockdown in Japan than the US, all while trying to get the next expansion underway? Did you even see the roadmap? New PVP mode, New hard mode dungeons, new PotD, two confirmed Ultimates with hints at a third, raid tiers, 24-mans, Hildebrand, Tataru quest(whatever that is), island expedition... I swear this is just bait I'm falling for...

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There being potentially a reason as of why ShB was so barebone doesn't make it any less light on content. Also a lot of the things that were cut in ShB were cut before COVID was a thing. And I've heard that Yoshida claimed that the Ultimate being so delayed was more because of poor management than COVID itself but don't quote me on that, though it kiiind of falls in line with the originally planned release of 5.3 and the beginning of the pandemic. What's coming this expac is not relevant to ShB.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

There being potentially a reason as of why ShB was so barebone doesn't make it any less light on content. Also a lot of the things that were cut in ShB were cut before COVID was a thing. And I've heard that Yoshida claimed that the Ultimate being so delayed was more because of poor management than COVID itself but don't quote me on that, though it kiiind of falls in line with the originally planned release of 5.3 and the beginning of the pandemic. What's coming this expac is not relevant to ShB.

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"Potentially" a reason. Yeah, there might have been one lol

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Originally Posted by Eriane_Elis

Correction. There's not enough main story quests to keep people interested. There's more than enough content to keep everyone occupied for a long time at every expansion but it's not their fault people opt to only play a few things, mainly the MSQ and ignore the rest. How many players completed all the side quests? What about the new mounts? What about the savage content? There's so many things to do, it's impossible to complete them all within the first month unless you really have no life. There's more than enough content to go around, it's just a bad excuse people make when they're done with the story.

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I did all the side quests this expansion, they are supremely boring. Mounts suck, you never summon them save for a few sec. Minions would be nice and if you could have them at all times. Savage is very nice as usual but it's always the same recipe.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Did you think they just left out an Ultimate? Or do you think MAYBE it had anything to do with a pandemic pushing them out of their offices, trying to deal with a stricter lockdown in Japan than the US, all while trying to get the next expansion underway? Did you even see the roadmap? New PVP mode, New hard mode dungeons, new PotD, two confirmed Ultimates with hints at a third, raid tiers, 24-mans, Hildebrand, Tataru quest(whatever that is), island expedition... I swear this is just bait I'm falling for...

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There was content missing long before covid even existed. Besides that, they specifically delayed the patches like…3 months to accommodate it. Not to mention they themselves stated they were working at 95% efficiency before taking the 3 months break. Not to mention the delay for this expansion as well which was another 3 months…which equated to us actually getting less stuff on expansion release than normal. But sure… “covid.”