Old content has become so easy that it is no longer fun

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I'm confused about this. I was told when I started to never do EX or Savage fights before the current patch because they were irrelevant and too hard for people to want to run again. But, now people are saying that actually all of those are too easy and need to be much harder.
or is this just the standard elitism stuff of "it was harder when I played it and now it means nothing"?

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Typically you dont want to do savage or ex at the end of the patch since the new patch content can catch you up for ilvls. But you can do savage or ex for the content. Its probably not best to try and gear through savage or ex late in a patch which is what you were probably told.

What this thread is discussing is scaling of old irrelevant content that is too easy because it was released 8 or 10 years ago. And alot of people posting dont seem to like the scaling of stats in old content. Which results in content that was easy to begin with being even more easy and therefore everything has to take longer(?) by making everything harder to appease the people who say that the content is to easy to begin with. And anyone who disagrees is wrong and doesnt get an updoot. At least thats my take away from reading this thread.

Gonna hard disagree.

Hard content + random Joes = not fun for me.

I want in, done, out.

if I want something with a challenge, I'd do savage or something, and not with party finder. Random people make me rage.

This is the reason roulettes are just chores for me. Most old content are too easy to a point where I have no amount of engagement. And for those saying it has always been like that you're simply lying. And we're not asking for them to be hard even, we're just asking for older content to be closer to what they were originally

I definitely agree that the older content should be re-scaled. I also see some people reading this thread and thinking we want the content to be harder, we don't. The people on this thread are asking for the content to feel like what they were originally. Enemy damage, hp, defense, etc are too weak now because of the power creep in the lower levels. Take Sephirot normal in the df. You can melt him down in 4 minutes with your average pug group. Once upon a time, it took about closer to 10 minutes to down him which is basically the average duration of a current trial. Downing him so fast skips mechanics and takes away from the experience making it a snooze fest, rather than something that feels engaging. The people on this thread are NOT asking for old content to be ball busting, they're asking for it to feel engaging again, like current content. And I would love to see that happen. Heavensward content is my favorite content in this entire game. You used to have to be awake for it back then, but because of the power creep, it's a shell of what it used to be. It's so disappointing for me to see the content that made me fall in love with this game melt in the matter of a couple minutes.

I'm not saying anyone on this thread is wrong, and I understand why some people might not feel anything needs to be done. However, there's a large amount of people that play this game that want engagement out of ANY and ALL content they do in this game too. Not just current content.

I personally feel that older content should be scaled to feel like current content. What I mean by that is: it should take the same amount of time to complete a lvl 60 dungeon or trial as it does to complete a lvl 90 dungeon or trial. I want to feel like I'm on my toes on all content, not drooling on my keyboard. Not asking for a difficulty change at all, I'm just asking for the scaling to not be so whack and op in older content.

And there are ways this could be done. Such as:
Stricter ilvl syncing
Buffing the enemies to have a LITTLE more hp and defense
Or finding a way to adjust potencies at lower levels and allowing us to take our full kits in with us too.

I'm sure there are a lot of intricacies involved in such a process, (and it would probably be a huge pain to pull off) but I think it would be better for the game down the road. That's just my two cents though.

Whenever I do thordan, I play my own game of trying to soak as much damage as possible. I still havent found a way to kill myself yet.

I started in September. It does kinda ruin the story moments, when you are expecting a epic fight, only to recive a total joke haha. The worst offenders for me were castrum, prae and Thordan, who apparently always was a joke hehe. Things got better in stormblood

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Originally Posted by Imora

Gonna hard disagree.

Hard content + random Joes = not fun for me.

I want in, done, out.

if I want something with a challenge, I'd do savage or something, and not with party finder. Random people make me rage.

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We're not asking for hard content. We're asking for easy content.

Older content is trivial now. It needs to be made easy, so no matter what you pick you're not clearing by ignoring all mechanics.

Yoshi has kindly asked us to respect the content before. My retort is simply, "make us."

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Originally Posted by van_arn

We're not asking for hard content. We're asking for easy content.

Older content is trivial now. It needs to be made easy, so no matter what you pick you're not clearing by ignoring all mechanics.

Yoshi has kindly asked us to respect the content before. My retort is simply, "make us."

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Have fun seeing vote abandon get spammed. I see so many Experienced players alone die to simple trivial mechanics makes me wonder how half of them got through the game. Throw new players into the mix and duty finder becomes frustration finder cause of the brain dead players you will run into.

Yeah its pretty bad. I made a post about it a while ago. I watched a DRK solo the final boss of a 70+ dungeon, and ilvl sync was on too. It shouldn't be that easy.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Have fun seeing vote abandon get spammed. I see so many Experienced players alone die to simple trivial mechanics makes me wonder how half of them got through the game. Throw new players into the mix and duty finder becomes frustration finder cause of the brain dead players you will run into.

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I've been playing this game for over 9 years and the only time I see vote abandon happening more than once in a blue moon is in current expansion trials and bosses.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Yeah its pretty bad. I made a post about it a while ago. I watched a DRK solo the final boss of a 70+ dungeon, and ilvl sync was on too. It shouldn't be that easy.

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Very bad example as Tanks have very strong self heals right now. A warrior solo'd p1n..so I would not even bring tanks into this.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Have fun seeing vote abandon get spammed. I see so many Experienced players alone die to simple trivial mechanics makes me wonder how half of them got through the game. Throw new players into the mix and duty finder becomes frustration finder cause of the brain dead players you will run into.

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There'll be a period of readjustment, yes. That's fine.

Again, it's not a matter of making things hardcore. It's a matter of making things easy.

If people want trivial, then they have beastmen dailies and fates. People might actually do fate parties again outside of gemstone farming.

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Originally Posted by Gullis

Whenever I do thordan, I play my own game of trying to soak as much damage as possible. I still havent found a way to kill myself yet.

I started in September. It does kinda ruin the story moments, when you are expecting a epic fight, only to recive a total joke haha. The worst offenders for me were castrum, prae and Thordan, who apparently always was a joke hehe. Things got better in stormblood

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I have tried to kill myself in that fight too lol! You really can't. That is a very very sad boss. Way to ruin Heavensward. All that build up for a boss that can't even harm you.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

There'll be a period of readjustment, yes. That's fine.

Again, it's not a matter of making things hardcore. It's a matter of making things easy.

If people want trivial, then they have beastmen dailies and fates. People might actually do fate parties again outside of gemstone farming.

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Adjust to the idea of dying more to easy then they have to trivial.

Here's my two cents:

I've been playing since ARR launched in 2013, and I've never considered old content as the main source of "fun" in the usual sense of the word. Job/dungeon/fight mechanics that we take for granted can be harder than we realize for new players... or not, it really depends on each new player. I've always felt satisfied about running old content for the sake of the rewards and just help new players to clear it.

While I see what you mean, I'm a bit torn about it. Sastasha (Hard)'s final boss (The Kraken) used to be a SLOG because how much HP the boss had at the time. It wasn't harder, or more fun. It was just a boring slog. Wiping 3 times to the Coincounter in AV because the tank kept getting one-shot by the swipe wasn't fun or challenging, it was just tiering. The Steps of Faith was brutal when it first came out, and it legit was bottlenecking entrance to HW if you didn't have an FC or a group of friends willing to help you with the clear. That wasn't fun either. The Void Ark fights were never hard. They just took 90 years because everything had so much HP. Then you have things like Cape Westwind or Prae Lahabrea, which were never hard to begin with.

Let's say we buff Story Ifrit. We give it more HP and make the plumes/eruptions one shot people. Would that be more fun? Unless it's 4 new people, usually a single veteran (or two if you wanna stretch it) can carry old fights just by virtue of avoiding every single attack from experience. At that stage you only make Ifrit last longer, newbies die more, and you may just clear the fight regardless on a single pull anyway. Newbies would only get frustrated and I doubt most people would even care to explain why they died to mechanics and just do the duty and leave as soon as they're done. Not sure making the fight last longer helps too much. Chances are you're just doing Ifrit on your leveling roulette anyway, and we could make an argument about how a longer fight would help newbies, but the thread seemed to be about "old content being fun" for veterans, unless I got something wrong. As a quick statement: I don't think MSQ should be skill-gated. Everything should be clearable for the sake of progressing the story.

My issue is that I feel every single piece of content would have to be rebalanced individually if we really wanted to make things air-tight.

Would I like to see maybe Ultima in Prae be a little harder? Yeah, sure. Though Prae needs a lot more work than just that.
Do we need to make say.... Castrum Abania or Snowcloak "harder"? No.. not really, I don't see the point.

For this discussion I believe it is important to point out exactly what parts of the game you think would truly benefit from a rebalance to make them harder. Some stuff I feel is just fine being easy to clear for the sake of progress.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Here's my two cents:

I've been playing since ARR launched in 2013, and I've never considered old content as the main source of "fun" in the usual sense of the word. Job/dungeon/fight mechanics that we take for granted can be harder than we realize for new players... or not, it really depends on each new player. I've always felt satisfied about running old content for the sake of the rewards and just help new players to clear it.

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The problem is we're generally on the polar opposite end of the spectrum from the specifics you describe. No, I'm not saying content should be brought back to how it was "in the good old days." Final Steps of Faith and Titan Hard were roadblocks, sure, but they don't need to be like they were. They are exceptions that would need to be handled individually. The issue is everything (some rare exceptions apply, such as Curtain Call) is far too generous when synced now.

It's not about making things "hardcore." It's about making queued content require some semblance of gameplay beyond just rushing through to get a reward. Ignoring mechanics should always be reserved for unsynced clears, never synced clears.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Very bad example as Tanks have very strong self heals right now.

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Lol not sure if this is a troll post, but that's the point I'm bringing up.

This is a difficult issue for the devs to address. They aren't allotted the resources to go back to old content and the sales they've been getting tell them to keep going as is. But this IS a story based game, intended to be a FF first and MMO second. People playing through the story are dealing with joke content for far too long. And even the toughest normal content really only barely measures up to needing any level of awakeness.

Que for alliance roulette, you get CT 9 times out of 10. Que for normal raid roulette, you get the first two of alexander 9 times out of ten. I suspect the meme level of ease turns people off, because I rarely get anything beyond that. At least that's been my experience.

Too many bosses have mechanics that can be skipped or ignored, even in SB. So when people run into something at all challenging to with mechanics that have to be respected, they give up and quit. And that makes others not want to bother too. This game has conditioned people to only accept laughably easy content.

But it's not going to improve. SE is a business and FFXIV prints money. They're not going to waste money on old content, no matter how nice it would be to have things be beefed up a bit.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

See title. Lack of ilvl syncing and general power creep and tuning adjustments with expansions have rendered pretty much all content pre-Stormblood into a joke, and even Stormblood and Shadowbringers content has suffered a fair bit. I had hoped the stat squish might address this somewhat, but it's just as bad if not worse.

Dungeon packs die in 10 seconds and the bosses don't fare much better. Trial fights which are supposed to be epic story moments get deleted before you even get to see half their mechanics or hear half their music. There is no damage even if you fail mechanics, pretty much the only way to die is Doom or if you fall off the edge of the arena.

I dread signing up for any roulette besides Expert these days because probably 80% of the time I will be put into a piece of old content that was once fun but is now a dull chore because of poor scaling. At that point I have to wonder if I'm playing the game to enjoy myself or simply to farm currency.

It's not only a bad experience for veteran players, it's a poor representation of the game for new players. They have to play through hundreds of hours of content before seeing a fight that doesn't instantly fall over before it can do anything. If you don't already know what the mechanics do it's impossible to tell how they work because there's almost no penalty for failing them, and even if you somehow die the rest of the party will just clear without you. You can't learn anything about the game.

Min ilvl helps but is not perfect, and not an option for the vast majority of players. You cannot sign up for roulettes min ilvl and even if you could, few would do so without increased reward.

I don't think it's fair to say "just do Extreme/Savage then" either. The vast majority of content in the game is normal mode and there's no reason it shouldn't be fun. Everyone has reason to run that content, not just players who don't do Extreme/Savage. Trivial content isn't fun. If people want content to remain trivial so it's faster to farm, they may as well just implement a system where you wait some given amount of time and then have the rewards given to you automatically.

I humbly ask the devs to do something. Even just dialling up the enemy HP on old content by a bit would go a long way. Implementing ilvl scaling for old trials and normal raids would be nice too. If you're worried about people complaining about their duties taking longer, feel free to increase the rewards by an appropriate amount too.

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Old content was always made easy once you are one or two expansions after it. It's been like that since day one. Last expansion I could clear ALL SAVAGE HW trials solo except sephirot Savage HW raids, Duo for all but the last set. It's like this in j about every mmo. You cant P{OSSIBLY expect old content to be relevant forever.

If you want content harder content but refuse to do the harder content? You are trying to say normal mode is supposed to be hard, but it's not. It's ENTRY level even when it's current. They aren't gonna waste time and money making OLD content hard because it may be hard for new people that aren't being carried by their brother (you aren't new so you know all the mechanics, he doesn't). Send him in the duty alone and when he gets out ask him. otherwise this is just an opinion of a MAX level character.

There's not much benefit to adding mechanics requirements to older content. Running group content, unlike solo content, relies on player critical mass, which naturally dwindles for older content and moves to new content and any content that offers good rewards. Things get worse when such content ends up being done by mixes of newbies and veterans - while the theory of newbies learning mechanics this way sounds good, that's pretty much never what happens in practice. Most veterans in older content seem to get very frustrated very quickly if things go less than smooth, few are in there to enjoy the mechanics, most are in there for rewards. And if you remove the rewards, nobody will go there at all.

If veteran players are frustrated by the performance we newer players offer in some content they feel compelled to run, I think a better solution would be removing some of these things from MSQ, but I imagine the developers put them in MSQ to help new players get their feet wet.

The easy fix is to make all roulette content min ilvl by default. It won’t make it that much harder and at least the content will not be so underwhelming new players wishing for fulfilling experiences quit out of boredom.

Barely and Dev time spent in this and more challenge.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

The easy fix is to make all roulette content min ilvl by default. It won’t make it that much harder and at least the content will not be so underwhelming new players wishing for fulfilling experiences quit out of boredom.

Barely and Dev time spent in this and more challenge.

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It's not as easy as this. Yesterday on my alt Pala I did multiple "The Wanderer's Palace" ARR that has ilvl sync. The "pro group" went throgh it really quick and during trash pulls I had not HP dips even. But I also go few sprout groups, some doing it first time. In some cases I had to cut the pulls much quicker like pulling 1/3 or 1/2 of max pull wall distance and even using my big cooldown to stay alive. Then on the last boss on some groups the DPS was much lower and multiple mob waves spawned (and sometimes killed so the boss enraged more), even had one wipe there.

The groups are random. There is no "performance score" of each player considered so you can't really balance around the top of the playerbase that just owned the place. And it's one version of the instance so it's always one difficulty level. WoW tried to provide challenge for the "top" which resulted with 4 raid difficulties and 4 dungeon difficulties with the last one having infinite scaling pretty much. But to have that WoW has a lot of player performance rating and gating/exclusion.

The way access to content difficulty is designed may be the issue. Let's say I want to play something more difficult spontaneously, well you can't really - there is no dutyfinder roulette option for something more engaging. Any content outside the trivial scope is directly gated by having to join either statics, partyfinder groups or discords. Nobody is ever using Raidfinder to queue into content with randoms, I think it would profit if it wouldnt be so pushed back into a niche but instead be just 1 dutyfinder. Why not make an "unreal dungeon roulette" option as a daily with min ilvl and some random modifier idk, it would be way more interesting for people who have played this game for a long time.
Don't think many just want to balance content perfectly forever here, they just notice they want a less trivial option besides it.

So why is there not a way to join harder content more easily with the dutyfinder? When I played ARR, people played t5,t7,t9 and t13 in dutyfinder, it often failed but we still queued for it. And it is not even a JP - EU/NA difference, the game itself is designed in this way to promote this exclusion of more engaging content sadly.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Why not make an "unreal dungeon roulette" option as a daily with min ilvl and some random modifier idk.

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And you will get random people, some that peform at fraction that is expected. As this is way harder content it will cause multiple failures and overall bad emotions or perception of the roulettte, even player hostility. So to prevent that on a game level you have to gate it in some efficient way, mostly personal performance on given job which won't be easy for the game as it doesn't have such data. If there will be no real limits then it will soon like extreme trials or coil - "don't do it via duty roulette".

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Originally Posted by PangTong

I don't think it's fair to say "just do Extreme/Savage then" either. The vast majority of content in the game is normal mode and there's no reason it shouldn't be fun. Everyone has reason to run that content, not just players who don't do Extreme/Savage. Trivial content isn't fun. If people want content to remain trivial so it's faster to farm, they may as well just implement a system where you wait some given amount of time and then have the rewards given to you automatically.

I humbly ask the devs to do something. Even just dialing up the enemy HP on old content by a bit would go a long way. Implementing ilvl scaling for old trials and normal raids would be nice too. If you're worried about people complaining about their duties taking longer, feel free to increase the rewards by an appropriate amount too.

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The older content in all of the expansions is easy. Some of it isn't so easy to do if you haven't done it in a while. I am not talking about pre-stormblood like you have said. I'm talking about all of it. From 2.0 - today. Rinse and repeat content enough and it becomes second nature.

All mob packs die in 10 seconds, it's not just the earlier expansions. The expert roulettes are no exception to this rule.

I have been getting back into the groove and I did a 60 roulette. Everything just...died. No real effort, except when DPS stand inside AoE's and the tank pops every single cooldown at once only to have nothing at the end but sweet sweet release of death.

Though I will admit, the trials for instance and some dungeons can be more punishing for newer / forgetful players. I never completed the weapon storyline and finally did Diamond weapon a few nights ago. I said I was the sprout but watched a video..despite that all the other people said "I don't remember this..." and..died...a lot. I had to raise both healers, tanks got thrown off the platforms.

The earlier stages though are mind-numbing easy. There's no way you can be punished unless you literally stand there and everyone else goes to play another video game while you're in combat.

You can ask the dev's to do something, in return though are you okay with no newer content? They can only do so much. Even the smallest adjustments have bottlenecks that we're all unware of. Still, there's a lot that can be done in trials / dungeons to make them not last longer but overall become more satisfying. This would mean raising the difficulty by more than just HP pools. It would also allow players to utilize our toolkits more. I dare say it would also encourage the need for level sync to not remove actions / abilities but more so reduce their potency in some cases.

I'm agreeing with you, but I don't think it will happen since doing adjustments like this would take away from newer content rolling out. I believe there would be a lot more fire and pitchforks if they had to take content and push it back. We can always hope! Those of us who want to see adjustments made to content already available that isn't extreme or savage.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

It's not as easy as this. Yesterday on my alt Pala I did multiple "The Wanderer's Palace" ARR that has ilvl sync. The "pro group" went throgh it really quick and during trash pulls I had not HP dips even. But I also go few sprout groups, some doing it first time. In some cases I had to cut the pulls much quicker like pulling 1/3 or 1/2 of max pull wall distance and even using my big cooldown to stay alive. Then on the last boss on some groups the DPS was much lower and multiple mob waves spawned (and sometimes killed so the boss enraged more), even had one wipe there.

The groups are random. There is no "performance score" of each player considered so you can't really balance around the top of the playerbase that just owned the place. And it's one version of the instance so it's always one difficulty level. WoW tried to provide challenge for the "top" which resulted with 4 raid difficulties and 4 dungeon difficulties with the last one having infinite scaling pretty much. But to have that WoW has a lot of player performance rating and gating/exclusion.

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So? Not a big deal… it’s means you had to think and go at a pace that was acceptable for your party. Hardly reason to keep it as easy as it is. Good for you for being a considerate tank. Wipes and failures are not a bad thing and if people get upset at them then that is their problem, because the content was casual level when it was released, so they should take it as an opportunity to learn and do better rather than cry about it to the devs.

In my experience the majority of the player base does this, it’s only a few vocal people that cry out instead of getting back up and trying harder. It’s not savage… just a regular dungeon.

Maybe if the game presented more of a challenge and gave a more fulfilling experience after the MSQ droves of people wouldn’t unsubscribe as soon as they are done with the story. Fans of casual challenges will find nothing to do after MSQ. It’s all a snooze fest or savage and extremes.

i think part of the disparity over whether or not the game is too easy is because there are two different playstyles. there are people who save everything for emergencies and people who just use things when they're free to do so. the same people who horde their expensive/rare items in the more traditional FF RPGs have a tendency to do the same with other aspects of each game, such as skills, abilities, MP, etc.

so for one dungeon you get a tank or healer who refuses to touch their cooldowns "just in case" which makes it extremely slow because, well, y'know, ffxiv encourages the usage of said cooldowns since they all have very short recast times (excluding 1-2 more powerful ones).

because of this i feel that an increase in difficulty would still be useful not just because the game -needs- it but because it would force those players -- the ones who who sit on their cooldowns the entire dungeon and let them got to waste -- to actually use them and discourage this practice.

also healers just need help lmao. i said this in a previous post but conjurer/whm is so absurdly underpowered in low level dungeons while ast/sch/sage are throwing down aoes or shields or things like essential dignity, lightspeed, phlegma, physis or in scholar's case just letting their fairy do their work. stone II is pretty strong but honestly doesn't make it for the additional work you need to put in. of course it changes once whm has access to regen, medica II, asylum, presence of mind, holy, eggs benediction and tetra. just pop swiftcast, get an initial holy off to stun everything while you assize and throw a regen/(or 2nd shield to replace the first that is now gone) on the tank then just presence of mind and holy-spam until it's all dead because everything's now stunlocked.

late-game sch/sage on the other hand struggle with doom debuffs that need to have the person's HP maxed or when they have a bad drk who activates living dead

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Originally Posted by Ath192

In my experience the majority of the player base does this, it’s only a few vocal people that cry out instead of getting back up and trying harder. It’s not savage… just a regular dungeon.

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Casual game introducing less casual content would create some pushback, depending what that it would provide but still I was referring more to this topic: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...vent./page3408 that has right not almost 3500 pages of posts. I'm just afraid that if the implementation wouldn't be just right it could lead to WoWishation of the community, especially those actively playing the harder dungeons and liking the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

We're not asking for hard content. We're asking for easy content.

Older content is trivial now. It needs to be made easy, so no matter what you pick you're not clearing by ignoring all mechanics.

Yoshi has kindly asked us to respect the content before. My retort is simply, "make us."

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Easy = trivial if you have any modicum of skill in this game.

The content is designed for lowest common denominator.

jokes on you i love easy content

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Lol not sure if this is a troll post, but that's the point I'm bringing up.

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No not trolling compared to other roles tank survivability is in a league of its own.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No not trolling compared to other roles tank survivability is in a league of its own.

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And you don't think tank survivability being out of hand doesn't contribute to old content being easy? Yikes.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

And you don't think tank survivability being out of hand doesn't contribute to old content being easy? Yikes.

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Most cool features is available at higher levels. And then handling bigger pulls in dungeons is now split between tank and healer. If tank would be limited then everything would rely on the healer and thus it would be expected from healers to handle 2-pack or bit bigger pulls. Weaker players would be punish more and even less would play a healer or tank.

For content jobs are balanced like savage even Warrior self healing is limited as it's only one target... and people that raced for world first usually picked GNB/DRK for DPS output... DRK that in dungeons is the weakest because hard reliance on the healer.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

See title. Lack of ilvl syncing and general power creep and tuning adjustments with expansions have rendered pretty much all content pre-Stormblood into a joke, and even Stormblood and Shadowbringers content has suffered a fair bit. I had hoped the stat squish might address this somewhat, but it's just as bad if not worse.

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Ive seen so many different friends try the game out during this new expansion, some never even tried mmos, and the amount that manage to die in dungeons or trials in ARR despite it being significantly easier is still fairly high, I feel like inevitably the perception of difficulty is just going to be dependant on the situation at hand, I see enough variation in skill set that it shifts the opinion of any fight in any direction as necessary.

some people find Titan easy, others get knocked off everytime.

personally ive never found the standard content as hard, never thought it was ment to be, the hard stuff was always just the extremes or savages, but the standard content is only hard if you never get explained what the mechanics are.

people still die in the great gubal library to the book because they either forgot or dont know to get to the other side of it when it turns around, you could mention any other content that has kill mechanics like this and the result is consistent, maybe its doing the content with people that already know what todo, that changes the dynamic significantly.

the impression I get from friends that went through it , seem to vary based on this.

Seems old content difficulty is all over the place. Some can wipe sprout partys pretty easy some are complete walkovers. I remember when i started playing i died quite a lot in dungeons and trials. 3rd boss of Dun scaith is still getting me often since i keep forgetting her attacks.
Could some of old content could use some number tuning - sure. Question is however is it worth investing dev time over creating new content.

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Originally Posted by sharknado

Most cool features is available at higher levels. And then handling bigger pulls in dungeons is now split between tank and healer. If tank would be limited then everything would rely on the healer and thus it would be expected from healers to handle 2-pack or bit bigger pulls. Weaker players would be punish more and even less would play a healer or tank.

For content jobs are balanced like savage even Warrior self healing is limited as it's only one target... and people that raced for world first usually picked GNB/DRK for DPS output... DRK that in dungeons is the weakest because hard reliance on the healer.

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That's great and all, but somethings gotta change. A tank shouldn't be able to solo p1n or even a final boss in a 70+ dungeon. Balance/content difficulty issues reflect negatively on the game.

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Originally Posted by Silly_Rabbit

Seems old content difficulty is all over the place. Some can wipe sprout partys pretty easy some are complete walkovers. I remember when i started playing i died quite a lot in dungeons and trials. 3rd boss of Dun scaith is still getting me often since i keep forgetting her attacks.
Could some of old content could use some number tuning - sure. Question is however is it worth investing dev time over creating new content.

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Hollow Diabolos in Dun Scaith pretty much does not mess around. If tank is not mitigating, a Camisado can almost or kill it, the spheres hurt, the soaks are deadly if one miss, mid tank soak kills healer or dps.

Generally various contents just have no problem murdering you without thinking twice, even in Alexander raids with some bosses putting debuffs that makes sure you get hit really hard or get one shot etc.

Honestly experience really vary from people, between new people and all but generally it is a matter of phase skipping and nuking stuff at least for me.
Even in ARR, some of the trials hurt without paying attention (Titan Hard can still cause some wipe between explosive rocks, very fast aoe. Or King Mog if not paying attention to the adds etc)

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

Hollow Diabolos in Dun Scaith pretty much does not mess around. If tank is not mitigating, a Camisado can almost or kill it, the spheres hurt, the soaks are deadly if one miss, mid tank soak kills healer or dps.

even in Alexander raids with some bosses putting debuffs that makes sure you get hit really hard or get one shot etc.

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Most of that stuff was really a 1shot at release and now it only "hurts", I believe we even did tankswaps at diabolos as long as the crit shield was on.
But I think wipes or 'almost wipes', are something good, makes you wonder what to do better, how to adapt, understand the mechanic, understand your skills, understand your debuffs, makes you socialize with your grp or alliance and figure out what to do and who takes over what tasks and where to spread to which waymarks. Doesn't need to be much indepth or some super complex talk. But that kinda vanished all, unless for hardcore content

If some argue here, that newbies still wipe in specific low level dungeons, well... it's a game where you need to press buttons, every other game let's you lose too if you are not up for the task.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

That's great and all, but somethings gotta change. A tank shouldn't be able to solo p1n or even a final boss in a 70+ dungeon. Balance/content difficulty issues reflect negatively on the game.

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If the raid boss had an enrage at like even 20 minutes Pala or War could not solo it ;) But there always will be archetypes that can get out of bounds if such checks aren't in place. The question is if 1h normal raid boss clear or solo a normal dungeon boss is a problem to the game? More competitive content should be kept away from that just like Savage and Ultimate is. Maybe unreal dungeons?

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Originally Posted by sharknado

The question is if 1h normal raid boss clear or solo a normal dungeon boss is a problem to the game?

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Yes, I'd agree with OP that it's a problem. That's why this thread was created in the first place. If things are so easy that they're not fun, I'd say that's a problem. An enrage timer would be a good improvement.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

And you don't think tank survivability being out of hand doesn't contribute to old content being easy? Yikes.

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Tanks can solo quite bit a content that healers and dps still have to group for. The 2 are not even on the same level. Tanks contributing?? More like tanks are carrying. To tanks dps and healers are like a hand saw in a room full power tools right now.