Has the WoW crowd taken over now?

The 4k dps has been proven to be a reportable offense if you see it in the listing or in a chat.

I have not seen this toxicity.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

You're on an EU data center and europeans have always seemed far less casual and more interested in DPS and optimization than NA.

There has always been "instakick and X fails = kick" parties since the game began. It's not new. There has always been people frustrated that enrage-prog parties have not cleared for days. Just don't join them if you don't like it.

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At the same time the duty finder groups are even worse than NA.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Like ... it's fine if you want to decide how much time you want to spend or what level of play you want to commit to. But I seriously wish people stop making comment like this ... Don't you understand it's exactly because of comment like this that often time your argument do not deserve much empathy.

Job is something most people have, it has no bearing on how good you can be. Bring up "oh I have a job" or "I have a life" does nothing to make a point. In fact, the only point it would project is you're someone who don't know how to manage your time. I know many people who can afford to barely play a few hours a day and would still blow away the majority of players who no-lifeing on PF all days long.

Again, really, it's perfectly ok to say this is how you want to take your game and this is the level of play you're happy with, you don't need to come up with an excuse for it. Especially one that looks down on others.

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1. It was a joke about the over seriousness of the EU datacenters, you failed the litmus test. It's been a long standing joke and one that is very much based in reality that the EU datacenters take everything too serious, which they do.

2. "I know people that would blow away no lifers all day long", classic Euro arrogance about their self perceived greatness, the whole our PUGs are better than your Statics attitude at play, your best team finished third, against a team that constantly memes. "Calm down Greg it's just Soccer" comes to mind.

I've played on the datacenter, I know full well how over the top, shouty and over serious European datacenter groups get, I know they have no chill..

And honestly? That's half the datacenters problem, it's what holds it back.

They need to calm down and just enjoy themselves once in a while. Videogame is meant to be fun, not a job.

Getting why I said that yet?

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Getting why I said that yet?

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Yeah, and that is you're projecting ... a lot.

1 - That's not an EU or NA or even JP things, you see these kind of things everywhere, all the times. If you think it's an EU only thing, you think wrong. Guess what, if people didn't point out it's an EU thing I wouldn't know. 'Cause I see the same thing every day on NA.

2 - New flash, I'm not European, I'm not even American. Also, the "my server has better pug" hasn't been a thing since cross-server PF became a thing. Feel like you're pulling an ancient meme trying to deflect your earlier point. I see you even modified what I said as quote to mis-direct its meaning.

These are universal symptol and issues on every data center and server. Anyone trying to segregate it using job status, location or player base just has a very narrowed and local view.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

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the irony of talking about "classic Euro arrogance about their self perceived greatness" while painting all of the european datacenters as a collective of whiny manchildren (thereby implying that the north american datacenter is without these problems and totally superior) is a sight to behold.

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Originally Posted by Derio

The 4k dps has been proven to be a reportable offense if you see it in the listing or in a chat.

I have not seen this toxicity.

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Unfortunately it is indeed reportable. I'm glad you haven't seen someone toxic enough to report it yet (I know what you meant).

For the brave souls leading their way through party finder in this toxic casualism infested game, do not admit you are using a parser, because regardless of how justified you are, it is against the rules. Just say you will judge people's performance or something similar, or just don't say anything at all, then kick them without a word if they are part of the 90% that abuse this toxic casualism and join party finder groups to get hard carried.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

the irony of talking about "classic Euro arrogance about their self perceived greatness" while painting all of the european datacenters as a collective of whiny manchildren (thereby implying that the north american datacenter is without these problems and totally superior) is a sight to behold.

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Did I say all? Did I say the word All European Datacenters? Did I say all players?

Nope. I did not, you did.

It's a majority perception, majority = mostly.

There will always be players that don't fit that stereotype, that won't bow to peer pressure and won't let those around them shape their attitude, I salute those players

I'm not talking the "you don't pay my sub" types either, they're casual toxic and every bit as bad as the over the top "we wiped at 0.1% enrange, Disband!" Types any given day of the week.

Aether has it's fair share of both, but it's not the majority. On Europe unless things have drastically changed over there (and given the amount of nasty comments slung at TPS on Twitch and Twitter I'm seriously doubting it) it appears to be a majority.

Majority = Mostly

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Did I say all? Did I say the word All European Datacenters? Did I say all players?

Nope. I did not, you did.

It's a majority perception, majority = mostly.

There will always be players that don't fit that stereotype, that won't bow to peer pressure and won't let those around them shape their attitude, I salute those players

I'm not talking the "you don't pay my sub" types either, they're casual toxic and every bit as bad as the over the top "we wiped at 0.1% enrange, Disband!" Types any given day of the week.

Aether has it's fair share of both, but it's not the majority. On Europe unless things have drastically changed over there (and given the amount of nasty comments slung at TPS on Twitch and Twitter I'm seriously doubting it) it appears to be a majority.

Majority = Mostly

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The moment when you think that Twitch and Twitter are an representation of a sever, good joke!

Unless you play on EU, do PF groups on EU, do instances on EU, dont talk about things you literally dont know a shit about. Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Escalon

The moment when you think that Twitch and Twitter are an representation of a sever, good joke!

Unless you play on EU, do PF groups on EU, do instances on EU, dont talk about things you literally dont know a shit about. Thank you very much.

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Sadly, after 20 years of conditioning by social media, many people now just assume "loudest = majority". That's why real life politic and policy making has been so shit lately.

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Originally Posted by Escalon

The moment when you think that Twitch and Twitter are an representation of a sever, good joke!

Unless you play on EU, do PF groups on EU, do instances on EU, dont talk about things you literally dont know a shit about. Thank you very much.

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I did for quite some time thanks, all too aware of how over serious they can be and it's not just a problem exclusive to FFXIV.

They were like it on WoW, I played on Dragonblight back in TBC and screaming raid shot caller was extremely commonplace.

They were like it in SWTOR, if you played a class that wasn't meta, you were ordered to change to a class that was or you were not on the raid.

They were like it in DaoC, except a far worse version of it, "Mid Zerg here, switch to your Mid toons" so it was pointless trying to actually play the game properly because it was more effective to just switch to the death ball and PvE.

It's been a prevalent attitude for a very long time, so as I said, unless something drastically changed which I'm seeing no evidence of, the majority still play the game like it's a second job.

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Originally Posted by Falar

WoW players are a net negative to the playerbase because they're just here for an "MMO" fix, not a "Final Fantasy" fix. The more "Final Fantasy" and the less "MMO" the game is, the better.

But nothing is stopping you from starting your own party.

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Slow claps at the irony of this post. Brilliant, just brilliant, the issue with WOW which goes back to 2007 was Elitist gamers, the Current lead of WOW Ion was the Guild Master of "Elitist Jerks" which ran the famous WOW theory crafting web site. Yeah, this post screams the same level of Toxic Elitist Privilege that killed WOW.

And for your info, My First FF game was on the SNES when I was in the USMC in 1991. I Played all FF games released in the US in the 90s before Work caused me to step away from Console Gaming. I did however make an MMO account in 2000, and I signed up for a few different MMOs between 2000 and 2005 Settling on SWG, CoH, and WOW for my big three. SWG & COH both fizzled and I maintained WOW, I kept trying every MMO that came up, signing up for Betas and other things. Got invites to FF14, and ESO betas, both were bad, didn't stick, kept playing WOW until WOD rolled around with no Flying as a headline, Came to FF14ARR in time for HW. Had a Lala Tank, it was fun, then WOW Legion dropped so I went there for a bit, mostly to finish out the Legion Storyline which had been building since the game first launched as a RTS. Was happy to turn my Gnome Warlock into a Female Void Elf, my little man had transitioned Female as I did IRL. I came back to FF14 on and off after legion just in time for the end of SB, and the launch of ShB.

The issue I have with WOW is it is run by Misogynistic Elitist Jerks Fudge the Horde, Fudge the Alliance, Fudge Ion H****, Fudge Toxic Developers, Fudge Toxic Separation of the community under some sense of "gameplay". As to the post I am responding to, that person would fit in perfectly in WOW.

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Originally Posted by kejakalope

The WoW crowd has, by and large, peacefully assimilated into FFXIV's culture and are happy here. The stuff on display in this thread has always been part of XIV.

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Totally agree, but some ppl are turning WoW into a scapegoat for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

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I mean...in Savage and Ultimate in PF, the goal is to clear, not babysit. I haven't even played wow and I can completely understand this. Dont join their party if you're going to waste time. You're being unfair to the 7 other people trying to progress by underperforming...If someone advertises a PF asking for say....Fountain of Fire Prog, it goes without saying that you are *expected* to know how to complete every mechanic up to FoF with little to no error. Walking in a party and failing the first mechanic everytime will get you kicked as you deserve to be. These under performing players who walk into said parties are usually the reason why the entire party is dismantled

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Totally agree, but some ppl are turning WoW into a scapegoat for no reason.

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WoW bad, FFXIV good, upvotes to the left...

In all seriousness though, it's a game that lived for long enough to see the vocal audience become people that hate the game. There's still some good game design in WoW IMHO, it's just the complete package has been getting worse over time and despite the developers saying otherwise, they're not actually doing any significant to improve the quality overall. I won't comment about the wider context of Activision Blizzard or the fact Blizzard in particular is bleeding talent.

I've enjoyed my time in FFXIV but it's also starting to get old enough as a game that I think quality of life problems are going to cause more grief/uproar within the community. The servers in particular, even though they're going to fix this, is something that's really outrageous in 2021/22. More importantly, as we finish one big story arc and move into the next, what if it's not as good? It's doesn't even have to be better than what we've played so far, but if it's perceived to be worse in comparison, it'll will cause rifts in the relationship between Square Enix and some players.

“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

I mean this last one sounds kinda dire. Can't blame em.

These kind of things have happened since at least HW. They might be occurring more often but its not just a WoW scapegoat to blame. This is a person problem not an invasion. Simply report the ones requiring parses and blacklist people you think are acting improper. Eventually the staff will recognize the issues and crack down on them like they did with run sellers.

Many players join regardless of knowing mechanics or not, often hoping to be carried. Then you get several who do that, and the party can't clear content. I can completely understand the frustration.

It always amazes me how apathy allows people to just accept what they get.

Don't let people be horrible. if they are leave the party, if you are the tank and people are not playing nice, let them die, same for healers. Stop this horrible community killing style of play asap. Play together or don't play at all.

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Originally Posted by JTWrenn

It always amazes me how apathy allows people to just accept what they get.

Don't let people be horrible. if they are leave the party, if you are the tank and people are not playing nice, let them die, same for healers. Stop this horrible community killing style of play asap. Play together or don't play at all.

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100% did not read the thread before responding.

i take it this is on na server?, because iam in jp server and i dont see any. well okay i do see some similar phrasing but more... "polite" i guess? instead of 4K dps, i found something like "experienced dps only" or "clear runner only" stuff like that.

could be translation error since they are in jp words, but it just to show that that kind of stuff is everywhere, NA people (especially who come from wow) is just more.... "strict" i gues

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Many players join regardless of knowing mechanics or not, often hoping to be carried. Then you get several who do that, and the party can't clear content. I can completely understand the frustration.

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This its the same issue with any game that requires full coop there are people who join with the intent to do their part and those who will put as little to no effort and expect the party to carry them through.

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Originally Posted by TMW001

This its the same issue with any game that requires full coop there are people who join with the intent to do their part and those who will put as little to no effort and expect the party to carry them through.

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It's funny, every time I see a complain threads about this issue, and after reading through the comments by the people who complaining ... 10/10 it always make me think: "yep, you are exactly why the problem you're complaining about exist in the first place".

Just report all posts of a dps requirement its against ToS.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Just report all posts of a dps requirement its against ToS.

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Would you rather be silently kicked from PFs instead of setting transperent expectations beforehand?

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Unfortunately it is indeed reportable. I'm glad you haven't seen someone toxic enough to report it yet (I know what you meant).

For the brave souls leading their way through party finder in this toxic casualism infested game, do not admit you are using a parser, because regardless of how justified you are, it is against the rules. Just say you will judge people's performance or something similar, or just don't say anything at all, then kick them without a word if they are part of the 90% that abuse this toxic casualism and join party finder groups to get hard carried.

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Kicking without word is also reportable as it is considered harassment. Also people don't join to get hard carried. Many people in this game (an insane amount) play on console and do not have a dps meter to gauge their dps.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Would you rather be silently kicked from PFs instead of setting transperent expectations beforehand?

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That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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Can you please point to the exact TOS condition that lists this as harassment? Because I'm pretty sure it would instead fall under "difference in playstyle" which is a perfectly justified reason to be kicked, as GMs have stated multiple times before.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Also people don't join to get hard carried.

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https://i.imgur.com/DLRIHfi.gif

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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Just stay out of these parties you consider "toxic", problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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???
Group: "Hi, please only join if you're very experienced"
Person with 0 experience: (Joins)
Person with 0 experience: (Gets kicked)
Person with 0 experience: "HOLY TOXIC-I JUST GOT HARASSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELLLLLLLLLPPPP I'M A VICTIMMM!!!!!"

I just. I don't get it. I don't get it. Just don't join. Why do people constantly try to force themselves in places they know they don't belong. The need to be a martyr is way too high these days. 'im gonna deliberately go somewhere that I know I'm going to waste peoples time' especially with queue times this high and people only having X amount of time to be on before they have to sleep for work in the morning?? Get over yourselves tbh, you do not need to be in parties you can't fairly contribute to. Whining to GM's every time you get kicked is only going to irritate them GMs + make people trying to pug strong pf's so impossible that it's all entirely done over discords. This happened in the last MMO I played and it was awful. It makes group searching look flat out dead. You're not going to force yourself in, you're just going to make people arrange parties where you and the majority can no longer see them.

"You can't kick me! That's harassment!"
*Disbands and reforms party without them*

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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Not gonna lie, this is probably one of the worst takes I’ve seen in this whole thread.

So if a PF group is specifically searching for qualified members for a difficult, high-end content, and an unqualified casual looking for a carry sneaks in, then he consistently wipes the group over and over from screwing up an early mechanic, then gets understandably kicked for both wasting the group’s time AND disrespecting their recruitment criteria that they made very transparent from the get go, the group is somehow the “toxic” one, and not the inexperienced casual thinking he’s entitled to a carry?

What makes you think that experienced raiders who have already practiced a high-end content for days upon end have no right to search for equally-skilled/qualified members so they can finally get that clear?

What makes you think that unqualified players have a God-given right to force experienced players to carry their lazy bums through high-end content against their will, and that getting booted for sabotaging a group they don’t belong in is “harassment?”

Sorry to say, but if you force yourself into a raiding group when your skills are not yet up to par with what that group is looking for, then cry foul when said group kicks you out, YOU are the problem, not the PF group. YOU are the toxic one for knowingly wasting the raiders’ time and effort, and disrespecting their wishes.

Might want to curb that toxic casualism there.

Stereotyping is bad.

I am the WoW community , I have come to take your sweet rolls & Pumpkin Pottages.

If you see a pf like that you just report the person and it's done. This kind of behavior is not tolerated. There is no arguing anything here. Report and ban. End of the story.

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Originally Posted by Noctisnine

If you see a pf like that you just report the person and it's done. This kind of behavior is not tolerated. There is no arguing anything here. Report and ban. End of the story.

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While the PF advertisement mentioning DPS numbers is indeed reportable since advertising parsers is against TOS, the others on the OP’s list are perfectly reasonable and don’t violate the TOS at all.

Which is to say, please don’t encourage further bad behavior from the so-called toxic casual crowd.

If you don’t meet a PF group’s requirements, have some common courtesy and don’t join. Form your own group, or get better in a fresh prog PF group first. Once your skills are up to par, feel free to join those “elite” groups.

It’s really as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

While the PF advertisement mentioning DPS numbers is indeed reportable since advertising parsers is against TOS, the others on the OP’s list are perfectly reasonable and don’t violate the TOS at all.

Which is to say, please don’t encourage further bad behavior from the so-called toxic casual crowd.

If you don’t meet a PF group’s requirements, have some common courtesy and don’t join. Form your own group, or get better in a fresh prog PF group first. Once your skills are up to par, feel free to join those “elite” groups.

It’s really as simple as that.

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This, If you don't like the group's requirements ,just join another one and move on.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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Please stay out of PF. You’d end up reporting nearly everyone because you didn’t get your way.

If everyone pulls their weight and through a joint effort with the rest of the party clears the instance, then no one gets kicked or reported.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

That is harassment lol. If you're gonna be toxic toward players maybe just have a static and leave PF alone.

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I disagree, it's not harassment to set clear group expectations. The party finder is just a tool to help people find and fill groups, it's not an expectation of behaviour or play style. The duty finder, by extension, is also the same thing except the game groups you together and the content is designed so can't fail.

There's a fundamental difference between attacking someone for having bad parses and low DPS versus using that as a metric to determine what the expected outcomes of the group is for. Not everyone can or wants to join a static but doesn't mean they can't make or form groups, when they want to play, with a clear goal in mind. You're not entitled to a place in someone's party finder group just because they make it and if you're going to set super high requirements to join, you're not entitled to have anybody join your groups.

I really think Yoshi-P and the FFXIV community has to have an honest conversation about this and actually recognise the areas in which things are toxic and things are a mechanism to make entirely reasonable choices. I don't want to be the guy making the "you don't pay my subscription" argument but it is an MMORPG and while you should treat each other people with respect, they don't have to play with and it's usually not harassment if they don't.