Yoshida telling players to go play other games is very damaging to FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

45 days is pretty long, all things considered. There are a couple things to keep in mind though regarding that time limit existing and the loss of property.

1) The devs stupidly built the housing system with the false impression that what limited amounts there were was going to be good enough. This was the earlier days of the team, where they failed or half-assed things way more often than people care to remember. Perhaps that was due to many limitations out of their control (e.g. funding). Regardless, that limitation is what sparked the decision to have that time limit. It's to be "fair" to all players that want to take part in the housing system, given the way they chose to make it.

2) With 1 in mind, do note that it's not like he's telling people to take breaks in specific quantities or time away from the game to equal taking months off. If you're playing other games, chances are you're not going to be spending 45 days on them with no free time to play XIV throughout that entire span of time. Taking a break from the game is a personal choice, not one he's dictating. If you feel you need to do that, do it. It's that simple. Failing to understand that is pretty common, as sad as that is to say. It is the right outlook though. If people can't wrap their heads around needing to take a break, when they clearly need to, again... that's a personal choice to actually feel like you need to stay as though someone is demanding it or pointing a gun at you.

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I mean the problem is with the delay between patches in 14 and content lulls. Like for me, once i finish savage i’m not interested in much else until next patch. So i won’t have a reason to log on and that typically lasts more than 45 days before the new patch comes out, but i need to continue subbing just to step into my house every now and then. I would love to take a longer break from the game and save some money from subbing but i’ve also spent a few hundred hours on my house alone and i’d rather not lose it so i’m kind of tethered to it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean the problem is with the delay between patches in 14 and content lulls. Like for me, once i finish savage i’m not interested in much else until next patch. So i won’t have a reason to log on and that typically lasts more than 45 days before the new patch comes out, but i need to continue subbing just to step into my house every now and then. I would love to take a longer break from the game and save some money from subbing but i’ve also spent a few hundred hours on my house alone and i’d rather not lose it so i’m kind of tethered to it.

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I get it, as I have a similar "problem" regarding lull and subbing to keep the house. Mines is more just whimsical lulls though, rather than anything in particular like no endgame content to do. I've gone MANY months of not even playing, arguably even years, besides to log in and go in the house (and maybe a other few things here and there).

Having said that though, the situation is not going to change for the foreseeable future. While a possible use for the future server acquisition, it likely won't happen right away. We'd be lucky to see ANY housing expansions done in 2022 and, even if we do, it will never be enough. They set the housing system up to always be a juggling act from the beginning. A broad and impressive design on paper, but a nightmare to put into practice with an ever-growing population. That demolition deadline is here to stay for at least another couple of years (which would make it nearly a decade).

Understanding this, that's the current risk involved with "investing" in housing in the game. "Unintentionally" having it's own drawbacks in time and cost, akin to housing IRL. Is it good it's like this? Of course not. It's a system that begs for improvement. We just won't see it anytime soon due to time, cost, and design philosophies (e.g. instanced non-neighborhood houses possibly being against wanted design).

It literally falls to the player, no matter how much plausible complaints there could be, to live with these risks attached. You're in it for the long haul if you decide to keep the house. If you feel your sub money is better spent elsewhere rather than ownership of housing, then there you go. If you don't... well, you're basically telling yourself your sub money is worth keeping the house. Honestly, I might have given up my property if I wasn't paying reduced sub fees.

Glad he did now the queue times about back to normal.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean the problem is with the delay between patches in 14 and content lulls. Like for me, once i finish savage i’m not interested in much else until next patch. So i won’t have a reason to log on and that typically lasts more than 45 days before the new patch comes out, but i need to continue subbing just to step into my house every now and then. I would love to take a longer break from the game and save some money from subbing but i’ve also spent a few hundred hours on my house alone and i’d rather not lose it so i’m kind of tethered to it.

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8months btw savages....the patch cycle now is 4m, and is 8man (savage) > 24 man > 8 man

so dont expect more savage until september ....

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

8months btw savages....the patch cycle now is 4m, and is 8man (savage) > 24 man > 8 man

so dont expect more savage until september ....

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It's been 4 months since heavensward. People are just forgetful apparently

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

the days of WoW timegating you are over, give it some time and you'll remember what its like when a company see's you as a person and not as a walking piggybank

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Freaking WoW devs and their milking of people by... actually having an active and functioning PvP scene, actually having customization ( talent and gear specs? the bastards!) having more raid difficulties (double in fact, how dare they!) plus having actual small group challenging content in their game (if its there you're just FORCED to do it! The scumbags, they thought of everything!). Such shameless milking of their playerbase ... by having more gameplay content......

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Originally Posted by Imora

He's been saying that for years though.

He encourages people take breaks, and always has.

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I've never seen such a widespread showing of collective stockholm syndrome as this display of boot licking the FFXIV community exhibits. The reason they don't add more content... wait for it... is to increase profits by being able to maintain a smaller team *GASP* crazy i know. I've got a few bridges to sell you if you believe otherwise

The idea that having more content and progression avenues FORCES you to do them and that having LESS content - i mean ffs we used to have THREE dungeons per patch, what people played them too much is that why they were reduced? - is justifiable because "lol we just want to give players a break ;)" is so insanely ridiculous that it just hurts . This community has devolved into more of an uncritical thinking cult every expansion, as a coping mechanism no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Incredibly new forum account.

Immediate reference to WoW.

Outlandish and hyperbolic claims.


Yah. You're safe with that feeling.

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I think the exact same thing as the OP. Have been thinking it for years, the game should have more endgame content, period. You are not forced to do this content just like people were never forced to level crafters or all alt classes and just like you never had to do savage raids but it's there for those that enjoy it.

Unfortunately for you, you cant dismiss me as a troll "new account". uh oh.

Also dismissing the perspective of a new player who is not yet indoctrinated into your inane nonsense by ganging up on him for being new... Tell me more about how so much less toxic this community is. Another completely fabricated propaganda piece by the FFXIV online circlejerk

I disagree.

I can play ff14 and other games. This isn't WoW where you must dedicate your entire life around it

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Freaking WoW devs and their milking of people by... actually having an active and functioning PvP scene, actually having customization ( talent and gear specs? the bastards!) having more raid difficulties (double in fact, how dare they!) plus having actual small group challenging content in their game (if its there you're just FORCED to do it! The scumbags, they thought of everything!). Such shameless milking of their playerbase ... by having more gameplay content......



I've never seen such a widespread showing of collective stockholm syndrome as this display of boot licking the FFXIV community exhibits. The reason they don't add more content... wait for it... is to increase profits by being able to maintain a smaller team *GASP* crazy i know. I've got a few bridges to sell you if you believe otherwise

The idea that having more content and progression avenues FORCES you to do them and that having LESS content - i mean ffs we used to have THREE dungeons per patch, what people played them too much is that why they were reduced? - is justifiable because "lol we just want to give players a break ;)" is so insanely ridiculous that it just hurts . This community has devolved into more of an uncritical thinking cult every expansion, as a coping mechanism no doubt.

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Except, by encouraging breaks, that also means they are encouraging people to not be subscribed during those breaks. So unless the people that are taking breaks remain subscribe, they are losing out on the sub money from them. Also, the reason why there are less dungeons is so they can work on other content types like the upcoming Island Sanctuaries.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Except, by encouraging breaks, that also means they are encouraging people to not be subscribed during those breaks. So unless the people that are taking breaks remain subscribe, they are losing out on the sub money from them.

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In their view it's not worth the cost, as simple as that, of course they are wrong but that's just their specialty. Also there are mechanisms to keep players subscribed , ironically enough , without even having any incentive to play the game. The most egregious of which is housing which FORCES you to have an active subscription every month and a half or poof away your house goes.

EDIT: Speaking of which.. why exactly do you think housing is still scarce? Spoiler: it's the same reason: lack of investment in infrastructure (servers, better code,etc) due to ruthless greed. games that never hit a fraction of this game's revenue managed to have housing for ALL players , some with more customizability, etc. Though that was largely due to having better technical competency, still. Same reason why we still only have 12 servers in Europe. Same reason their PC ports are a mess. And on and on. SE is a very greedy company.

It's always funny how these replies always conveniently ignore the fact that having more content, say a challenging version of dungeons akin to M+ (it could just have no mandatory rewards for progression for example and just serve as a competitive ranking system with rewarded glamors,etc), DOESN'T FORCE YOU TO PLAY THAT CONTENT. No one forces you to level up all the classes, yet the option is there for those that want it.

By the circlejerk's inane logic in this thread it'd be a great idea to impose hard restrictions on how many classes you can level in a month or week, i mean we dont want players to play however much they want to right?! Why not just put a hard cap into how many hours per day a player can be logged in, lest they foolishly think they can spend their time having fun with a game however much they see fit!

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Also, the reason why there are less dungeons is so they can work on other content types like the upcoming Island Sanctuaries.

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Another piece of regurgitated dev propaganda. We used to have systems added to the game all the same when we had more dungeons per patch, we had the same amount of raids. The best side gameplay system that was ever added , and this is far from controversial, was deep dungeon, and it was added in a patch cycle that still had two dungeons per patch. Gold saucer too was added when we had THREE dungeons per patch. Same for housing, etc.
Not to mention, that the player base MORE THAN TRIPLED since then, the idea that they couldn't just add SIGNIFICANTLY MORE content outright and still push more profit than they did all those years ago (and even then it was a giant cash cow for Square Enix) is just so bafflingly dumb. But alas, as with so many things in life, greed rules above reason.

It's tragic how gullible you all are.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Freaking WoW devs and their milking of people by... actually having an active and functioning PvP scene, actually having customization ( talent and gear specs? the bastards!) having more raid difficulties (double in fact, how dare they!) plus having actual small group challenging content in their game (if its there you're just FORCED to do it! The scumbags, they thought of everything!). Such shameless milking of their playerbase ... by having more gameplay content.......

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People dislike the WoW model and speak against it because it's a lot of FOMO, timegated, frustrating grinding. Lots of garbage.. is still garbage. To be fair it's not ALL garbage. I enjoyed playing WoW for years, but left when all my friends did and it basically became a job to maintain viability by logging in every day for hours.

People don't hate on the WoW devs and game because there is so much to do, it's because what there is to do is not worth it or is predatory.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I've never seen such a widespread showing of collective stockholm syndrome as this display of boot licking the FFXIV community exhibits. The reason they don't add more content... wait for it... is to increase profits by being able to maintain a smaller team *GASP* crazy i know. I've got a few bridges to sell you if you believe otherwise

The idea that having more content and progression avenues FORCES you to do them and that having LESS content - i mean ffs we used to have THREE dungeons per patch, what people played them too much is that why they were reduced? - is justifiable because "lol we just want to give players a break ;)" is so insanely ridiculous that it just hurts . This community has devolved into more of an uncritical thinking cult every expansion, as a coping mechanism no doubt.

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People like that, in general, FFXIV's content isn't immediately demanding of time. Having less of it isn't a selling point or the reason people are giving for FFXIV having the more attractive game. People will always want more of the content they do engage with. The part where the devs say the game isn't made for you to no life isn't an excuse for less content, it's a description of the reasoning of the design of the content we do have.

Yeah SE could put a lot more apples in the FFXIV basket and make it a huge thing, but considering where it came from it's moderately understandable they're tentative about that. That being said 10 years IS a lot of time to stand at that pond edge and just keep toeing the water and I think everyone can agree we'd all like more.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I think the exact same thing as the OP. Have been thinking it for years, the game should have more endgame content, period. You are not forced to do this content just like people were never forced to level crafters or all alt classes but it's there for those that enjoy it.

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I doubt you actually think like them unless this post is just an attempt to further antagonize people for "lulz". They're not here because they want to contribute, they wanted to drop into the FFXIV forum, mention WoW and then watch the arguments. Big surprise you want more of the content you like. Just like every other gamer in the entire world. Nobody says you have to engage with all the other content, but considering how successful the game is , it seems their decision to have a smorgasbord of offerings available at all times is working out better than other companies hyper focus on constantly making the endgame the relevant content and requiring constant engagement to keep up with it.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Unfortunately for you, you cant dismiss me as a troll "new account". uh oh.

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I can say you've missed the point entirely of why people praise FFXIV for the design decisions made. Absolutely none of it being "we're happy they give less content".

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Also dismissing the perspective of a new player who is not yet indoctrinated into your inane nonsense by ganging up on him for being new... Tell me more about how so much less toxic this community is. Another completely fabricated propaganda piece by the FFXIV online circlejerk

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Recognizing obvious trolling isn't hard. They have a profile that shows at best they've not even tasted what FFXIV is but have several posts claiming that WoW does it all better. In general actual new players don't claim full knowledge of a game they haven't even reached endgame on.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

People dislike the WoW model and speak against it because it's a lot of FOMO, timegated, frustrating grinding. Lots of garbage.. is still garbage. To be fair it's not ALL garbage. I enjoyed playing WoW for years, but left when all my friends did and it basically became a job to maintain viability by logging in every day for hours.

People don't hate on the WoW devs and game because there is so much to do, it's because what there is to do is not worth it or is predatory.

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I want you to precisely elaborate how the content is garbage or how it forces you to play it. Anymore than this game forces you to do extreme trials or savage raids that is. Do go ahead, i gave you plenty of examples of added content the game provides but you refused to engage with any of them in specifics.

Tell me how M+, better PvP (with an actual reinforcing reward ecosystem) and more raid bosses per tier and more raid difficulties is "less worth doing" and more "garbage" than the content in FFXIV. And why you are forced to do any of it in any capacity.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I can say you've missed the point entirely of why people praise FFXIV for the design decisions made. Absolutely none of it being "we're happy they give less content".

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Except it very much is, there is no way around that what is happening in this thread is you people deluding yourselves into thinking having less content is a good thing as a coping mechanism.

Pretty easy for him to do that PR when owning a house practically prevents you from unsubbing between patches.

Playing others games help you not get burned out from FFXIV. The first time ever I got burned out from FFXIV is when I started HC raiding. I've been playing the game since 2016, and never got burned out from it until then. I had to log in almost every day for long hours. After some time, It became really hard to sit down and play the game.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I want you to precisely elaborate how the content is garbage or how it forces you to play it. Anymore than this game forces you to do extreme trials or savage raids that is. Do go ahead, i gave you plenty of examples of added content the game provides but you refused to engage with any of them in specifics.

Tell me how M+, better PvP (with an actual reinforcing reward ecosystem) and more raid bosses per tier and more raid difficulties is "less worth doing" and more "garbage" than the content in FFXIV. And why you are forced to do any of it in any capacity.

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I'm upfront going to say I have not played WoW in years. It got stale and I was sick of logging in on a schedule to make sure that I got to use my ONE run of content to try and get the item I wanted. I also sat down and realized that every event I wasn't logged into and things like AQ opening were just gone forever. It became a job.

From what I hear from my friends who still play WoW: Random drops on dungeon runs with RNG stats and special rolls of items that can be absolute garbage or endgame BIS and entry keys that get wasted if someone flubs the run. Farming Faction that becomes completely useless after the next faction arises or sometimes disappears entirely. New systems that become entirely irrelevant as well. Something about a magetower involved a lot of swearing in my discord.

Nothing ever FORCES someone to play a game, but FOMO and straight up wasting peoples time is a no no for me and that all happens with content that disappears or becomes irrelevant.

FFXIV has examples of this as well and pretending they haven't done it is madness, but it's MUCH less prevalent and not a driving design force like Blizzards designs have been.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Except it very much is, there is no way around that what is happening in this thread is you people deluding yourselves into thinking having less content is a good thing as a coping mechanism.

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"you people". Like it's a hive mind.

You can insist it is so, but if I can point to the fact that what people are praising is the design and not the amount, you're wrong. Nobody likes when less of what they like comes out in the next release, but you can still appreciate that what comes out isn't likely to just disappear into irrelevancy within a year or make you engage with it now or never if you want to complete it.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I want you to precisely elaborate how the content is garbage or how it forces you to play it. Anymore than this game forces you to do extreme trials or savage raids that is. Do go ahead, i gave you plenty of examples of added content the game provides but you refused to engage with any of them in specifics.

Tell me how M+, better PvP (with an actual reinforcing reward ecosystem) and more raid bosses per tier and more raid difficulties is "less worth doing" and more "garbage" than the content in FFXIV. And why you are forced to do any of it in any capacity.



Except it very much is, there is no way around that what is happening in this thread is you people deluding yourselves into thinking having less content is a good thing as a coping mechanism.

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Rep grinds, time gated rep grinds that can take months to complete. Some rep grinds literally forced you to run dungeons over and over with their tabard and that took forever too.

WoW also doesn't have anything like the Gold Saucer.

Furthermore I can still do content from ARR and past expansions. You are blocked from that in WoW where you're forced into SLs whether you like it or not. There's no reason to care for the WoW world or lore when you are never given time to care anymore. All that matters is grinding the same stuff over and over.

There. I destroyed your argument.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Rep grinds, time gated rep grinds that can take months to complete. Some rep grinds literally forced you to run dungeons over and over with their tabard and that took forever too.

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Spoiler: You don't have to do the rep grinds. And they aren't nearly as horrible as you present them. They're akin to doing roulettes and beast tribe dailies in FFXIV.

Unless you mean the expansion factions progression, but that's hardly a "rep" or a "grind". It's just timed story progression with rewards attached. It can't be a grind if there isn't any grinding attached to it. The game completely showers you with renown (the "rep") if you are behind on it. As you gear up and do dungeons it just keeps dropping from multiple content sources.

I can understand some of the complaints about torghast, the main of which that it didn't unlock the floors account wide and that you had to repeat the climb on all alts but that's about it.

These grinds amounted to 2-4 hours per week of gameplay to keep up, depending on the week, and how fast you could clear certain things. Hardly a grind at all

Alas this is all besides the point as no one is advocating for FFXIV to implement the same reward structure, just to have more content. And none of the things you described are issues with the content itself. A swing and a miss

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

WoW also doesn't have anything like the Gold Saucer.

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So WoW doesn't have the darkmoon faire or the pets minigame?

Also I don't care what WoW has or doesn't have for these forum's discussions, the wow devs aren't looking for feedback here (and spoiler alert: i also demand changes in the WoW forums when i play it actively) . I care why FFXIV doesn't have certain content, and just more content in general, and why you people pretend its ok to have less content than you could be having due to some inane dev propaganda of ":) we just want you not to play as much :) because its good for you and stuff". As a player you should be interested in the devs giving you a better game. White knighting for devs gives you nothing but a delusional sense of personal connection to them

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I'm upfront going to say I have not played WoW in years. It got stale and I was sick of logging in on a schedule to make sure that I got to use my ONE run of content to try and get the item I wanted. I also sat down and realized that every event I wasn't logged into and things like AQ opening were just gone forever. It became a job.

From what I hear from my friends who still play WoW: Random drops on dungeon runs with RNG stats and special rolls of items that can be absolute garbage or endgame BIS and entry keys that get wasted if someone flubs the run. Farming Faction that becomes completely useless after the next faction arises or sometimes disappears entirely. New systems that become entirely irrelevant as well. Something about a magetower involved a lot of swearing in my discord.

*snipped because character limits*

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You're just conflating WoW's reward structure with it having more content here. I could go into why i think of the reward systems in WoW aren't as awful as some people make it out to be (for one they changed the most egregious aspects not that long after the expansion launched) but that's neither here nor there.

I don't like repeating myself but i have to ask yet again. What exactly would you lose by there being more content, why would having smaller scale challenging content, a more cared for PvP, more raid bosses and more raid difficulties (ie more for everyone! casual and hardcore alike) be bad and why would it force you to play the game more inherently? Hell why cant we just have more dungeons?

Personally i'd change my perspective of the game completely if they just worked on a hard mode system for dungeons, say akin to m+ with multiple tiers, etc i think GW2 had a similar system too. It wouldn't have to reward more than bragging rights (to incentivize people to participate somewhat, but far from force them) and/or progression confined solely within the system (similar to how doing bozja and similar content progresses your power further but ONLY within the system itself), with a timer and a datacenter wide ladder. Relatively simple stuff like this would open up engaging content for people like me. I'd take anything really, anything that showed they care about actual gameplay. But year after year they refuse to step outside this absolutely stale content cycle.

Yet every time we want to bring up that we just want more of this kind of stuff we have to fight the circlejerk which proceeds, absolutely invariably, to quote the nonsensical propaganda of "it's so you dont have to play as much :)". Im not asking for it to be tied to the "main" progression, just give me more enjoyable stuff to do.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

You're just conflating WoW's reward structure with it having more content here. I could go into why i think of the reward systems in WoW aren't as awful as some people make it out to be (for one they changed the most egregious aspects not that long after the expansion launched) but that's neither here nor there.

I don't like repeating myself but i have to ask yet again. What exactly would you lose by there being more content, why would having smaller scale challenging content, a more cared for PvP, more raid bosses and more raid difficulties (ie more for everyone! casual and hardcore alike) be bad and why would it force you to play the game more inherently? Hell why cant we just have more dungeons?

Personally i'd change my perspective of the game completely if they just worked on a hard mode system for dungeons, say akin to m+ with multiple tiers, etc i think GW2 had a similar system too. It wouldn't have to reward more than bragging rights (to incentivize people to participate somewhat, but far from force them) and/or progression confined solely within the system (similar to how doing bozja and similar content progresses your power further but ONLY within the system itself), with a timer and a datacenter wide ladder. Relatively simple stuff like this would open up engaging content for people like me. I'd take anything really, anything that showed they care about actual gameplay. But year after year they refuse to step outside this absolutely stale content cycle.

Yet every time we want to bring up that we just want more of this kind of stuff we have to fight the circlejerk which proceeds, absolutely invariably, to quote the nonsensical propaganda of "it's so you dont have to play as much :)". Im not asking for it to be tied to the "main" progression, just give me more enjoyable stuff to do.

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Oh because calling an entire community a "you people" like a hive mind is great too, isn't it?

There was another thread made by this same OP poster that created this thread which is now deleted, where they pushed for FFXIV raiding content to be exactly like WoW's. He's a known troll at this point.

Regardless of the fact, I'll reiterate the same thing here that I said in that thread multiple times, since it's been deleted now. The VAST MAJORITY of the playerbase has no issue what so ever with more content being added, and would welcome it. What a good portion of the community is afraid of, is a push for content that would restructure the game more towards something that it isn't, the direction of the game so to speak.

As of right now, FFXIV offers content for a broad range of player spectrums. Hardcore, casual, glamour, housing, gold saucer, crafting/gathering, etc. Each of these has a wealth of content available to them. Raiding especially, even older content, is still relevant. What people don't want to see, is 90% of the game become invalidated with a lopsided push to completely revamp the game towards "only endgame matters" like WoW has done. It's an understandable reaction, both due to the massive influx of the WoW playerbase to FFXIV, and because many started playing FFXIV because it doesn't require you to literally marry it and play 24/7.

There probably are a good deal many of players who are also afraid that switch in direction would come at the cost of story quality as well. You have to admit, the amount of retconning WoW has done since its inception has basically turned its lore into a joke at this point. Where as I can count on one hand the amount of retconning FFXIV has done since ARR. In fact the only thing that pops right into my head is retconning Pharos Sirius existing during the 1.0 era, even though it didn't. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

Again, you'll find a good majority of the community (Which, I might add, most don't post on the forums. I've been active in the game for almost 3 years and I just started on the forums in December) are not opposed to new content at all, but the fear of a shift in focus, direction, and loss of identity of what has brought FFXIV to this point.

I'm just sick of this "WoW-Outsider" and "FFXIV Hivemind" mentality. It's really starting to wear thin.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

You're just conflating reward structure with having more content here.

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I'm saying that even if the content is released more, its life, relevance, and reason for existing is worse. WoW has likely scrapped or "ruined" more content than FFXIV has ever published, this does not make it better though unless you're someone who is on the crest of that wave and CONSTANTLY engaging in it, which it (to a degree) forces you do to if you ever want to experience it.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

I don't like repeating myself but i have to ask yet again. What exactly would you lose by there being more content, why would having smaller scale challenging content, a more cared for PvP, more raid bosses and more raid difficulties (ie more for everyone! casual and hardcore alike) be bad and why would it force you to play the game more inherently? Hell why cant we just have more dungeons?

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This isn't your original question or accusation though.
to THIS:
There's no reason aside from resources. Which is why I am saying you're missing the point people are making. Everyone wants more of the stuff they want. The problem being that a huge amount of FFXIV's player base doesn't necessarily just want more dungeons, PVP, etc. They want stuff to engage in all kinds of things like a theme park.


Its evident that while FFXIV is SE's steadfast moneymaker at the moment, they don't have a whole lot of resources. Reasons that have been given are that the combination of talent, dedication, and creativity necessary aren't available. The developers have commented it's not a matter of just hiring more people to be able to make more stuff. As someone who's involved in game development to a degree, I can understand that. You can bring in 100 solid programmers but if they just crank out more stuff without good story behind it, solid and consistent art to found it on and drape around, it's going to be very obvious it's just stuff for stuffs sake.

Might be marketing and PR... sure. But it's been demonstrated with 1.0 that just having a name and money behind something doesn't make it good, you need a team who can make it enjoyable and so far the current team has done very well. So when they comment something like that, there's some cred to be had.

So considering all that, the biggest problem is there is only so many resources to invest, so content as a whole is limited. We want something, it's going to use up a certain amount of resources and if we want MORE of something, there's going to be less of something else. THIS is why people pushback to more of whatever. Cause they don't want that, especially if it's going to cost THEM the thing they want.

YES it's a frustrating thing, but it doesn't seem like SE is changing their current policy and the devs aren't changing their story. Complaining about it has done nothing for 8 years.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Personally i'd change my perspective of the game completely if they just worked on a hard mode system for dungeons, say akin to m+ with multiple tiers, etc i think GW2 had a similar system too. It wouldn't have to reward more than bragging rights (to incentivize people to participate somewhat, but far from force them) or progression confined solely within the system (similar to how doing bozja and similar content progresses your power further but ONLY within the system itself), with a timer and a datacenter wide ladder. Relatively simple stuff like this would open up engaging content for people like me

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I'm sure it would, cause you want that. Other people don't want that instead of the things they enjoy, which is what has happened again and again with this game and team. Instead of another dungeon we got Diadem, Eureka, Bozjan front and other things.

None of that takes away from the fact that , again, the design and rewards of the game are available at all times and dropping in and out of the game are not punished for most content. Which is the point everyone who comments "it's so you can take a break" is trying to make.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Yet every time we want to bring up that we just want more of this kind of stuff we have to fight the circlejerk which proceeds, absolutely invariably, to quote the nonsensical propaganda of "it's so you dont have to play as much :)". Im not asking for it to be tied to the "main" progression, just give me more enjoyable stuff to do.

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All the things you quoted from your original response have nothing to do with people not wanting more things. They're commenting that the things we have, and the way they're designed, are not consumer hostile BS like so many things other companies do.


also:you can get around character limits by snipping your post to match the limit, editing and posting back in the part that was "over".

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Alas this is all besides the point as no one is advocating for FFXIV to implement the same reward structure, just to have more content. And none of the things you described are issues with the content itself. A swing and a miss

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But FFXIV does have plenty of content. I'm able to play far more hours a week than the average player and I rarely feel like I've run out of things to do even though I've been playing since 2015. There's a lot of content I don't even touch like PvP and PotD/HoH.

How much staying power has all of that content WoW created ended up having over the years? Not much considering how much of it they've discarded. Because they don't design content to have staying power beyond the expansion where it's released (and a lot of times not even in the next patch cycle), they're able to churn out lots of poor quality content and then try to brainwash their players into thinking getting more trash is a good thing.

If your complaint is you're not getting enough of the type of content you prefer, that's fair but a game can't cater to every playstyle. The devs have to pick and choose where they spend their time. Here they focus on lasting quality for the type of content it's intended to be. They reiterate and change things if player feedback is they missed the mark. Compare that to the WoW devs who at most would slap on a couple of hotfixes then ignore the content since it isn't intended to last.

If it makes you feel better, YoshiP did get his "there's something I'm really excited about but can't share yet" grin on his face during the media tour interviews when asked if FFXIV would ever add more difficult small group content similar to M+. They aren't ignoring player feedback. But they're also not going to rush content into the game just for the sake of rushing more content into the game, unlike WoW.

The vs. WoW debate is kinda interesting to me personally because the last few times I played WoW I actually spent very little of my time even doing current content. Like, WoW does have a TON of things to do, but most of the things I actually enjoyed doing were stuff the game's already had for years. Like, WoW still has what, 9 years on FFXIV in terms of how long it's been around? Not counting 1.0, but even that came out like 7 years after WoW did.

Like sure there's more bosses and more variety in challenge content, but how many of those bosses are actually all that interesting or unique or stand out on their own anyway? SE isn't the only one who re-uses mechanics and concepts after all. I dunno. It's like, there's a difference in design philosophy between the games, so it feels like debating purely quantity or quality isn't gonna really be a straight comparison either way. They're different games that offer different experiences.

I played WoW on and off for 15 years but I can safely say there's very little now that could convince me to go back. I'm having a great time playing 14 though, and still feel like I have a ton of things left that I want to do. So to each their own I suppose.

FFXIV has plenty of content... all which is fluff for someone who only cares for the combat. And because the entire MSQ and 90% of unlockables are behind the cycle of [Talk->Watch->Fight->Repeat until mandatory PvE instance->Repeat] the game attracts plenty of people who like and would not complain if there was more pve content to do. Saying "well there's minigames, and fishing, and dress-up" is a total non-answer.
Imagine telling someone a game doesn't need more content based on its core gameplay because the development team keeps adding side activities that may or may not appeal to people who joined for the... core gameplay of its genre (in japanese rpgs it's story and combat).

Moreover saying more pve content would be bad because you'd feel "pressured to play more" is an even worse argument. That's like saying raiders are pressured to complete all achievements in the game, even for things like sightseeing and fishing, because they're content that exists and has rewards tied to it. You're not supposed to do content you don't enjoy doing. And if you enjoy doing said content then there's no logic in complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

The vs. WoW debate is kinda interesting to me personally because the last few times I played WoW I actually spent very little of my time even doing current content. Like, WoW does have a TON of things to do, but most of the things I actually enjoyed doing were stuff the game's already had for years. Like, WoW still has what, 9 years on FFXIV in terms of how long it's been around? Not counting 1.0, but even that came out like 7 years after WoW did.

Like sure there's more bosses and more variety in challenge content, but how many of those bosses are actually all that interesting or unique or stand out on their own anyway? SE isn't the only one who re-uses mechanics and concepts after all. I dunno. It's like, there's a difference in design philosophy between the games, so it feels like debating purely quantity or quality isn't gonna really be a straight comparison either way. They're different games that offer different experiences.

I played WoW on and off for 15 years but I can safely say there's very little now that could convince me to go back. I'm having a great time playing 14 though, and still feel like I have a ton of things left that I want to do. So to each their own I suppose.

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And models. And animations. I lost count of how many BOSSES recycled the same models with their respective animations expansion after expansion and it's baffling they're not called out on it.

Not everyone can play 24/7, some people actually have jobs, family and stuff. The reason he keeps telling people to take breaks is because, in Asia some people play themselves to death in internet café.

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Originally Posted by Windwalker

Not everyone can play 24/7, some people actually have jobs, family and stuff. The reason he keeps telling people to take breaks is because, in Asia some people play themselves to death in internet café.

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Thats very true, i once heard about a girl who gives birth in cafe, and about a boy who didnt stop to sleep and rest, and died playing.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Noaki Yoshida in one interview told that if players are bored with the game or if they have completed all PVE content then they should take a break and come back in the next patch. Frankly speaking this is very damaging to the game and to square enix as a whole because its an mmorpg and players play mmorpg to commit long term. Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW. Infact he gives players new ideas on how to play WoW differently when they get bored or during a content drought but never once he said to take a break.

When I play an mmorpg I play it non stop for 10+ years without taking breaks and I am sure there are millions of players like me who think the same way. Majority of mmo players have no interest in single player games.

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I had a blast playing ARR -> SB and quit for almost 2 years at the start of ShB for various reasons both related and unrelated to the game. Sometimes stuff happens and stuff needs to be addressed. Yoshida's being pretty realistic about it.

I saw EW's trailer and some livestream material and it piqued my interest, so recently came back and I'm having a pretty good time catching up on content.

I'm sure a lot of people who step away never come back, but there are some like me who remember having fun and do eventually come back when circumstances allow.

Quality vs Quantity.
This whole idea is the downfall of the genre. Devs either spread themselves too thin trying to please everyone, or keep churning out low quality grindy content to keep people playing. I've seen many games get turned into one big mess because they kept changing direction to please players like GW2.
FFXIV's consistency in direction and quality is always what keeps me coming back. They have Savage and Extreme tiers when they come out, and just might be me, but...I really don't see the appeal for MMO PvP. 9/10 times it is just poorly a balanced mess that just isn't fun. I'd rather just got play Halo or LOL for my PvP fix.
I also play a lot of AAA releases, so for me at least having a ton of content in just one game isn't needed.

I think for people who like battle content, a solution might be to add a version of m+ - scaling dungeon content which offers unique rewards and maybe gear (as an alternative to just doing savage), which would, give more variety and more choice of challenging battle content.

Sadly, to implement this technically probably requires budget busting development, hence “go play other games”

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

I think for people who like battle content, a solution might be to add a version of m+ - scaling dungeon content which offers unique rewards and maybe gear (as an alternative to just doing savage), which would, give more variety and more choice of challenging battle content.

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realism concerning development costs completly aside, rewards in the sense of unique glamour or maybe something like the new chests you can buy from your GC for random pets and stuff is fine, but not actual endgame level gear. at the point where it starts offering better gear than you can just easily buy it stops offering variety and choice and instead turns into a chore you have to do if you want to be on top (or even just "be a little better to help your struggling static)

Well right now savage gear will be better than any gear you can buy (except some upgraded tomes pieces, but you will need the upgrade material) and if you don’t want to raid savage there’s no reason to need better gear - crafted gear will be all you ever need.

So therefore I don’t see anything wrong with adding additional things for the people who want a variety of challenging content where the gear would actually be used on something.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Well right now savage gear will be better than any gear you can buy (except some upgraded tomes pieces, but you will need the upgrade material) and if you don’t want to raid savage there’s no reason to need better gear - crafted gear will be all you ever need.

So therefore I don’t see anything wrong with adding additional things for the people who want a variety of challenging content where the gear would actually be used on something.

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you don't "need" m+ gear in wow either, go there and tell your raidgroup you don't want to equip your character as you don't "need" it, have fun. if any kind of content offers gear that is better than what you can just buy than either you get it OR you slow your group down by value of being "lazy". it's actually not about people that don't care for harder content at all but for those that do.

imagine by doing "m+" you could get just one piece of gear a week that is as good as savage (or even inbetween tomestone/savage loot). if 8 people make sure to grab one piece a week this are 8 items a week so now raid prep if you are even semi serious went from "show up on time, have food/pots, farm your tomestomes" to "do the things you 'had' to do before, and also make damn sure you pushed your "m+" this week, don't want you to miss out on some nice extra piece there".

sure, the raiding portion of the game is not that big % wise, but realistically while there certainly are people that never raided that want harder content for say 4 man groups there actually is a big overlap on that demand. offering dungeon gear on savage or even close to savage itemlevel would effectively just make it so that a good 50% of the people asking for "harder small group content" now feel effectively forced to do said content.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Noaki Yoshida in one interview told that if players are bored with the game or if they have completed all PVE content then they should take a break and come back in the next patch. Frankly speaking this is very damaging to the game and to square enix as a whole because its an mmorpg and players play mmorpg to commit long term. Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW. Infact he gives players new ideas on how to play WoW differently when they get bored or during a content drought but never once he said to take a break.

When I play an mmorpg I play it non stop for 10+ years without taking breaks and I am sure there are millions of players like me who think the same way. Majority of mmo players have no interest in single player games.

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The entire point of a game is to be taking a break- if you love Ion so much, Ion's made a game that's designed specifically to keep you grinding forever so you never enjoy it or have time to do something you enjoy.

From FFXIV, looks like there's millions of MMO players that do have an interest in having time to do something other than pursue gear that rapidly becomes obsolete forever.

I still don’t understand why if they added harder dungeon content that gave out better loot that people would suddenly feel pressured to do it? Given that only a very small percentage, say 5% do savage currently. I don’t see the other 95% of the population even caring.

It’s the same on WoW too afaik, only a small percentage do m+ dungeons and probably less do M+ raiding. I’m not sure I remember seeing on their forums lots of posts of people saying they feel pressured do to that content.

what's wrong with playing other games?

It's soooooo painful playing against players that cheeaattt. x-x

It is said that WoW refugee comes to FF14 and forgot what made them refugee at first place

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

I still don’t understand why if they added harder dungeon content that gave out better loot that people would suddenly feel pressured to do it? Given that only a very small percentage, say 5% do savage currently. I don’t see the other 95% of the population even caring.

It’s the same on WoW too afaik, only a small percentage do m+ dungeons and probably less do M+ raiding. I’m not sure I remember seeing on their forums lots of posts of people saying they feel pressured do to that content.

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Depends how it's implented- as is, there's stuff like Bozja, Ultimates, deep dungeons, unreal that aren't really huge gearing opportunities.

I don't think anyone would mind if they put in savage dungeons, savage allied raids or whatever (well, other than maybe the clearly overworked developers, which I think is more the reason it doesn't happen- it'd just take more development time than they have)... if there's not the gear treadmill to it.

The gap between hardcore players doing group content/those doing very hard or very grindy stuff, and those who prefer to solo queue in MMORPGs is usually staggering- in pvp it's especially noticeable, but even in pve I've played enough mmos where my gear at the start of a tier has me doing half the damage of what I have at the end of it.

FFXIV I think one of the brightest spots is that you're not dead weight if you're in tomestone gear any casual can get, vs someone in savage gear... in many MMOs you would be. So I don't blame them for not doing something gearing'wise like M+ for example, though putting out the content if they have time, sure great I just hope they don't make it all about timers and rush mode like M+ is and focus on difficulty instead.

So I assume this is a troll post but here is the thing ffxiv can be played casually or you can no life it the way it is designed best of both worlds if a player wishes to play they will if not they won't trying to force it like WoW did will only ensure you lose people we as humans don't take kindly to being forced to jack squat.

I actually agree on a completely personal level. I don’t take breaks from games. If I burn out and quit playing a game, odds are EXTREMELY high I’ll never play it again, unless friends specifically drag me back in. But yeah, I think that’s a me thing. I dunno how many people are actually that way.

And imo the “go play other games” thing really means “we’ve run the numbers and our sub costs are quite happily covering development costs (based on the agreed formula) so no change needed”.

So I’m not sure him saying “go play other games” has any financial risk because if it did, he wouldn’t say it :)

Well, Yoshida has already explained in a past interview why they won't (or aren't) doing small scale harder content: "savage" dungeons or whatever. Their battle team is stretched thin. The harder the content, the more time it takes to create said content, as it also requires the same devs to test it. He explained that their time would be better spent creating large scale content, that more players can participate in (and get carried through), with the increase of casual players joining the game. I'm paraphrasing, but the quote should be around here somewhere.

Also, content like Bozja's Critical Engagements, can't be done in the greater world, as it also requires a stretched thin battle team, to create and test said content.