What's next for new jobs after Endwalker.

With creative jobs like Sage, I think anything is possible. I'd like to see a whip job, a hammer job, dual shield job, heck a proper dual sword job would be cool too (NIN don't count).

Big thing I'm super interested in is they have added casting skills while moving for MCH and BRD in PVP, which means now casters may not be so rigid in their performance moving forward. It's a cool thing to think about how one mechanic could change the way a lot of casters could be built/redone in the future.

I'm wishing so hard for a real pet class. I was reading about void mages and how they utilize voidsent (wink wink)

Now that SMN is more traditional, as an invoker/caster rater than a pet summoning class. I think it'd be the perfect chance to introduce a pet class. One that would be original to FFXIV like the reaper and sage, free from the influence of previous games.. wishful thinking...

Many classe exist through the entire Final Fantasy franchise.

We have a bunch of them already, but it is true that some of those existing can still be used.

As an exemple, Their is a cutscene in FFXIV (I won't spoil where) where you can see a "Judge" unsheating his weapon (For those who know, it's Gabranth ;) ). Possible hint towards a Judge class ? This one would be Dual wielding sword.

The First playable Sage is Tellah in FFIV, but it's more a mix of White mage and Black mage, while wielding a staff. No really like the actual Sage which has a incredible design imo.

Many many classe can be used. BUT have you ever noticed the "black sheep" of FFXIV ? Before Endwalker, Two of them existed, and now... Only one remains...

The Ninja

Actually, the Ninja is the only classe that have a whole stuff only for them. No other classe is sharing that one. DRG was the second, but he share the stuff with Reaper now, Since the beginning of Endwalker.

An other question remains :

Are we still getting 2 classes per Extension ? Could be hard to balance everything at this point and I don't even talk about class identity. But you know what ? Let's go dream a little.

First we received this "role" :

Heavensward : Tank, Heal and Ranged DPS (DRK, AST and MCH)
Stormblood : Melee DPS and Caster (SAM and RDM)
Shadowbringer : Tank and Ranged DPS (GNB and DNC)
Endwalker : Melee DPS and Healer (RPR and SGE)

If we are looking at the current situation about classe, We are lacking one Caster (We only got 3, Blue Mage doesn't count, it's a limited job) and one Ranged job. But Ranged got their turn already with Shadowbringer, so I'll guess they'll have to wait.

What I suggest for the next expansion, if we got 2 Classes is the following :

Remove Blue mage from Caster and add a new categorie named : Limited Job

Add Chronomancer as a Caster. This class could be a great support just like the dancer is. Should be able to do defensive stuff like "Lagging" damage in order to let healer 2-3 seconds to do a Save on one person.

Add a new Melee DPS (Increasing the number of Melee up to 6, against 7 Ranged/Caster DPS, including Chronomancer.) This classes should share the Ninja stuff, which mean it must be based on Agility. For the weapon, I guess it can be a Whip (Like Quistis), or a Nunchaku (Like Selphie have in FFVIII). It can be anything based only on that. Tamer/Beastmaster for exemple, or other thing related to a Whip.

Of course, Adding a Melee right now can be a tricky move. Ranged can feel bad if this happens because they will be only 3 to choose, against 4 Caster. But, I took into account all the class that can attack from a distance and not based on role only.

Limited jobs. Please. Just give us more limited jobs. It's all I want.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

The First playable Sage is Tellah in FFIV, but it's more a mix of White mage and Black mage, while wielding a staff. No really like the actual Sage which has a incredible design imo.

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The name of this job is my only peeve... Sages in FFs are always the seasoned mage (usually elderly), which indeed has iconic Tellah as a posterboy. It actually doesn't match the whole vibe of XIV's Sage. I feel the name was very misplaced, and I personally would name the job Artificer. It can even have a cool ART acronym.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

The name of this job is my only peeve... Sages in FFs are always the seasoned mage (usually elderly), which indeed has iconic Tellah as a posterboy. It actually doesn't match the whole vibe of XIV's Sage. I feel the name was very misplaced, and I personally would name the job Artificer. It can even have a cool ART acronym.

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Artificer sounds like class for fireworks, doesn't really fits for a healer in my opinion...

As said, Sage was one existing class from a really Old Final Fantasy. Reaper wasn't. I will not be surprised if Square Enix try once more to innovate and get a whole new class with unexpected weapon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

Artificer sounds like class for fireworks, doesn't really fits for a healer in my opinion...

As said, Sage was one existing class from a really Old Final Fantasy. Reaper wasn't. I will not be surprised if Square Enix try once more to innovate and get a whole new class with unexpected weapon.

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Sage wasn't just from "one really old FF game", it's appeared multiple times with a fairly consistent identity each time. 3, 4, Tactics Advance, Tactics A2, 4 Heroes of Light, and some other spinoffs. It's always been a job with access to both Black and White magics, but crippling weaknesses in all other regards, such as low speed and physical stats.
Except in XIV, it's some kind of barrier-techno mage field medic. Personally I find it a little jarring.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

Sage wasn't just from "one really old FF game", it's appeared multiple times with a fairly consistent identity each time. 3, 4, Tactics Advance, Tactics A2, 4 Heroes of Light, and some other spinoffs. It's always been a job with access to both Black and White magics, but crippling weaknesses in all other regards, such as low speed and physical stats.
Except in XIV, it's some kind of barrier-techno mage field medic. Personally I find it a little jarring.

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I know that Sage come from more than one FF, that isn't new to me. Tellah is the most iconic of them because it's the first one playable.
You say the design of Sage is a little jarring because of the difference in design between old one and the FFXIV one, but adding a new class with Black and white magic will look too much like the Red Mage. If you take the Lore of FFXIV into account, it's not that strange, Sharlayan got great magical base, and they even developped technology along with it. Sage isn't only based on magic, but on medicine too, and this make sense

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

I know that Sage come from more than one FF, that isn't new to me. Tellah is the most iconic of them because it's the first one playable.
You say the design of Sage is a little jarring because of the difference in design between old one and the FFXIV one, but adding a new class with Black and white magic will look too much like the Red Mage. If you take the Lore of FFXIV into account, it's not that strange, Sharlayan got great magical base, and they even developped technology along with it. Sage isn't only based on magic, but on medicine too, and this make sense

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No one is saying Sage in FF14 should be BLM/WHM hybrid, just that calling it Sage is a bit off considering it's not a classic Sage which is very much an existing job concept in the series and it's nothing like the FF14 job. And I mean nothing, except that both are casters. Sage in the series and Sage in this game are far more disconnected than RDM and SMN.

Necromancer.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

No one is saying Sage in FF14 should be BLM/WHM hybrid, just that calling it Sage is a bit off considering it's not a classic Sage which is very much an existing job concept in the series and it's nothing like the FF14 job. And I mean nothing, except that both are casters. Sage in the series and Sage in this game are far more disconnected than RDM and SMN.

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So you think it should be named differently ? I can understand your comparison with the "old" RDM and SMN from FF Series and that makes sense. And I can agree that FF Series's Sage is completely different, but Extremely close (if not copycat) to a RDM from the same franchise.

I don't even know how you are willing to name this healer taking the lore into account. Sharlayan got a strong reputation into having high qualified mage (Which is identified as Sage in older FF). How do you intend to name them ? Medic ? Doctor ? They use a mix of Medicine and Magic and both of those discipline aren't easy to master at all. Don't say to me your going to tell them "Magical Doctor" or "Rainbow Medic"... I swear, I'm not taking their medicine, seems sus... ok joke off...

Taking the Sage out of the "job" bag, and transforming it into something never seen before is actually a good move, especially when the old move pool don't allow you to do something already done. Astromancer could have been greatly inspired by Chronomancer, for exemple. At Stormblood, the Astromancer got many "Time-related" ability, but now they don't have all those "Time related" ability. In fact, they don't look like a Chronomancer anymore (Or at least, share very little things in common) which can possibly lead to a Chronomancer class using "Time" as a powerfull energy to make DPS/support for the team in the future.

It's like the Gunbreaker, I don't know why they called it this way, cause they use Gunblade and not Gunbreak... This one makes also no sense at all. Should be Gunblader instead ? People complained with this one at the release, but eventually they accepted that, and just goes on...

Ya know, I belive that if Yoshi and the dev team were to fix/rework the old classes, and make them adhere to their classical identities there would be more new classes they can do without stepping on the others toes.

fix scholar, give it actual identity with its faries, and give it more of a battle taction playstyle and you would be able save the remaning ideas to make an actual Orator class, instead of giving the scholar orator-named abilities and calling it a night.

give white mage a more status and light magically adhered identity and you can give the elemental idea to geomancer.

make Ast entirely card, star and fate adhered, and you can give all of its time magic to a time mage

make BARD an actual BARD that is in the support role and give it actually cool buffs with its music and you can give all of its current ranged attacks to a Ranger class.

its kinda the way SquareEnix set the job system up. a lot of the classes are essentially mergers of old classes, but not only are these mergers locked into a single playstyle, they lack the identity and playstyle that I feel does their job title justice, and they essentially ellimate the ability to make an actual job that uses any part of the identity the merger class has stolen.

Seeing as they ripped the 90% elements off WHM, I suppose they're making room for Geomancer DPS. It'll be a stance dancer with different elements doing different things likely.

And same goes for AST not having time-themed skills anymore, so I can see Time Mage being added at some point.

Necromancer would be cool but I think Reaper is the closest we'll get to a death-related job.

Mystic Knight maybe....

Beastmaster and Puppeteer are not happening because they absolutely hate pets and cannot balance them.

It would be pretty cool if they could do that Onmyoji concept they were considering during SB.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

Seeing as they ripped the 90% elements off WHM, I suppose they're making room for Geomancer DPS. It'll be a stance dancer with different elements doing different things likely.

And same goes for AST not having time-themed skills anymore, so I can see Time Mage being added at some point.

Necromancer would be cool but I think Reaper is the closest we'll get to a death-related job.

Mystic Knight maybe....

Beastmaster and Puppeteer are not happening because they absolutely hate pets and cannot balance them.

It would be pretty cool if they could do that Onmyoji concept they were considering during SB.

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You just said some good points here.

Elements aren't totally off WHM now. They're still there in the lower level. If SE want to do a Geomancer they'll need to completely get rid of elemental skills from the WHM (Except for water, I think that's good to keep and can give a little variety to the WHM, FFBE is a good exemple by the character of Folka, which is a water mage doing great healing). Still, if you take the lore into account, their is little chance of this happening, because of the Conjurer Story quest.

AST lost time-themed skills they had in Stormblood. Getting rid of that too could lead to a potential Chronomancer or Time mage. "Time" itself isn't really taked into account in the Story of Astrologian, so we still have space here.

Necromancer most likely won't happen, and you said it quite good yourself.

Mystic Knight "Could" happen. But we still need to know how it can be designed from nothing (Of course mystic knight exist in other FF, but all their weapon are almost taken already)

Beastmaster/Puppeteer (But more Beastmaster for this one I think) can be a limited class. We have plenty of monster outside that can be used as pets for battle, the only thing I fear is that some monster could actually be extremely potent because of various debuff or huge AoE they do. This will mostly likely finish like the Blue mage, not usable in other content because of how broken this can become.

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Originally Posted by OperaMorgana

Necromancer.

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As much as I would love a Necromancer, they won't add one into the game. Reaper will be the closest you get.

Reaper is also very close to the Necromancer theme already.
Strong connection to death, uses dark arts.

We never had 2 news jobs with the same themes, at least not one after another.

Hear me, join the Judge Theorists.
Find completely random connections to Judges on every Yoshida's shirt, cope in reminder that the WoL has never seen Gabranth face to face everyday.
Join the Judge Theorits, copium is free!

Though I’m all for a Geomancer caster and a Corsair scouting job, I would 100% prefer that they don’t add anything new and focus on fixing what we have in 7.0. I think everyone can agree jobs either feel way too similar, (healers, dark knight + warrior) way too simplified (summoner, tanks, healers) and/or way too different from what the “theme” of the job was supposed to be (sage, scholar)/ Plus I think we can all agree the leveling experience, in terms of when you gain skills, is way too slow. To the point of being downright boring.

For all of you blackpillers talking about the dev team are “out of ideas and have no creativity left” look at PvP. Yeah, it has its issues but who really wants to argue that warrior in PvP doesn't feel like warrior should. Every job in PvP feels really fresh and fun to play. Who wouldn't agree playing healers in PvP feels several times better than they do in PvE? The dev team CLEARLY still has lots of ideas about job design but can’t implement them in PvE for whatever reason. Part of it could that they’re moving in a more single player friendly direction (which I think is a terrible idea for the record). Part of it could be they're using PvP jobs as something of a test bed for future changes. I also think part of it is that they wanted to keep PvE jobs safe by making only minor changes/additions this expac since it’s the finale of the Hydaelyn Zodiark story.
It’s entirely possibly they’re reevaluating basic job design fundamentals for 7.0. Since the graphics update is coming next expac that will go a long way to market the expac on its own without having a new headline job. Plus balancing/maintaining 19 combat jobs with around 5 people on the job design team has probably gotten really difficult. Though, Yoshi P's comments in that FFXI interview would suggest otherwise.

I still want a Green Mage and my copium is that since Green Mage lacks such a solid identity in other Final Fantasy games, they can do whatever they want with the name. Yoshida could give Green Mages real lore and gameplay.

My second stage of copium is that they removed all the DoTs' synergies because they want to make a DoT job that is entirely built around the idea. That way they can account and balance the gameplay around it since it's not just a secondary form of damage but rather the main mechanic.

My dream job that would never happen is mostly-melee GRM with a hammer (and shield?) that focuses on applying and interacting with DoTs. Bane was the most fun spell in the game for me and I miss it. I think it would be fun to bonk goons with a hammer, too. The party utility side of things would be fairly easy to come up with since what little GRM had was utility. The return of Protect(ga)! The gap closer would just be Leap. I'd really enjoy some kind of interaction such as using Oil and then being able to light the enemy on fire. Every time I do Dohn Mheg and Aenc bonks the tank, I think about Green Mage.

Bonk!

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

Elements aren't totally off WHM now. They're still there in the lower level. If SE want to do a Geomancer they'll need to completely get rid of elemental skills from the WHM (Except for water, I think that's good to keep and can give a little variety to the WHM, FFBE is a good exemple by the character of Folka, which is a water mage doing great healing). Still, if you take the lore into account, their is little chance of this happening, because of the Conjurer Story quest.

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There's no need to remove any elements from WHM if you're going to make Geomancer a DPS, it's an entirely different role and plays in an entirely different way. There would be conflict if you're got two healers both using a wind elemental DoT and a stone elemental mage attack with water elemental healing spells, but that's not going to happen here.
Lore wise there's no conflict either. Conjury deals with the Elementals, while Geomancy has it's own separate established lore, that is more similar to Astromancy (but functions differently enough to seperate it from Astrologian too).
So as a DPS, there's nothing in the way of Geomancer.

You couldn't leave them without water either, Geomancy is all based around Feng-Shui (literally Wind-Water), and already established lore in the Swallows Compass shows off water maledictions.

But... Yoshi P recently said they may be forced to make new jobs from now on, leading me to believe Geomancer isn't on the table. (unless it's the las 'classic' job already planned for 7.0 and Yoshi is talking about after that)
I'd still like an eastern style mage job, and Yoshi has said he would too, so I think Onmyoji could be our next mage.

Onmyoji would have a debuffing archetype in some way, so a DoT mage could be feasible given they've stripped SMN down to it's bare essentials now. Not as a job with multiple DoTs (because the big reason DoTs were removed was to reduce the number of active debuffs) but as a job with a DoT management mechanic that enhances the potency of your DoT, a new dedicated job mechanic that would warrant a whole new job as opposed to being tacked onto SMN/SCH.
So Onmyoji is my bet.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

AST lost time-themed skills they had in Stormblood. Getting rid of that too could lead to a potential Chronomancer or Time mage. "Time" itself isn't really taked into account in the Story of Astrologian, so we still have space here.

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AST hasn't lost nearly enough Time Magic inspiration yet.

Don't forget that the classic FF job Time Mage is actually 'Time-Space Mage', which is more obvious in JP games. This is why Time Mage has Gravity, Float, and even occasionally Quake or Meteor.
Astrologian IS still Time Mage in all but name, it has time related spells, it has the Time Mage signature spell Gravity, it has Celestial Stasis as a LB (otherwise known as 'Galaxy Stop' the ultimate time magic from Tactics, literally Stop magic on everything everywhere), and the Astrologian AF gear (plus the Ishgardian Astrologians) are still visually based on the classic Time Mage job, a pointy hat with a 'stars and crescent moon' motif.
Moreover, AST's whole astrology schtick of "predicting the future through the movements of celestial bodies" is just a creative way of reinterpreting "Time-Space magic", predicting the future = time, celestial bodies = space, space-time.

AST would need to lose Gravity, and all of it's space themes to make room for Time Mage, which obviously isn't going to happen. For all intents and purposes, AST is Time Mage, as was clearly their intention when making it, and losing one Haste-like spell isn't enough to stop that.
They likely wanted to minimise the extent of actual time manipulation wielded by AST, to explain away the lack of game-breaking mechanics like an actual slow/haste effect in battle, while also leaving room for other time-related plots and lore such as Alexander.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

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You just put the finger on things I completely forgot/overlooked. And I really appreciated reading what's in your post.

You mentionned the "interview" with Yoshi P about new class. I saw it too recently, and nobody can say if the entirely new job creation will be for 7.0 or later. You said it right.

Even if I tried to make some "sense" for a geomancer, I'm not actually that interrested by the idea of the class itself. WHM, before Shadowbringer, was "kinda" the Geomancer, in a healer point of view, of course. What I fear about a Geomancer class could be a redundancy for spells if we take into consideration pre-70 WHM and the new spell that change on SMN when you summon Titan. And that's only if I don't take the lore into account. I re-checked the Astrologian story (In stormblood), and you are right, Geomancer are quite different to what the name indicate. If you take only the name, it obviously refer to a "Earth Mage". "gễ", which mean the Earth in greek, is where "Geomancer" find his root. This view on Geomancer is pretty common I guess, because i'm not the only one to do it, I saw many other do it too.

Moving on, the Onmyoji. I was wondering why SE started to "erase" DoT class, like Summoner for exemple. Your idea on a DoT-based Class can actually make sense. The Onmyoji is based on the Onmyōdō discipline, assembling the 5 Elements of the Wuxing and the Yin-Yang :

In those five, we can find Fire, Earth and Water (Elements that are mostly present in some Stormblood dungeon)
We also have Wood and Metal (Didn't know those were looked like elements, but that's what I find)
and we have Yin and Yang in it too, so maybe Light and Darkness ?

That's what the Onmyōdō is. Seems like a very complex discipline so getting an Onmyoji class out of this wouldn't be easy at the first glance, but there is definitely something to work with.

And on my poor job on the AST, I really feel like I mixed all my brush. I did some research after reading you on this part and everything you said is true, even if I don't know about "Time-Space Mage", I can't read japanese so...

But if we take "Time-space" into account only, AST have little ability related to that. Gravity and Horoscope seems to be "Space" magic, and I'm not counting all the "Celestial" spell. One thing still make me feel like AST isn't "completely" based on Time-mage. He has something to do with Malefic and Benefic... May that be a Yin-Yang relation to anything ? It's not based on Light or Darkness, it clearly based on the view of "Good and Evil". And also the Card itself make AST feel like a fortune teller. Of course, I think that almost anyone know on what Horoscope is based and fortune teller use that too.

If I take everything into account, it seems to be a mix between a Fortune teller and a "Time-space mage" (Like I said, I can't read Japanese, Can't tell if that's true or not, but I'll trust you on this one).

Honestly I won't bet on a Onmyoji right now. But a Caster will definitely come, I hope.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

[on AST]

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In most games, the JP versions literally call it 'Space-Time Magic'.

Time Magic (時空魔法, Jikū Mahō?, lit. Time and Space Magic), also known as Time, and Time Magick, is a recurring skill set and and type of Magic in the Final Fantasy series. It is a form of magic that bends the laws of time and space, and it is mainly a supportive school of magic, in contrast to Black Magic, which focuses on dealing damage, and White Magic, which focuses on healing.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Time_Magic


Included in Space-Time Magick are:
Teleport
Warp
Gravity/ja/ga
Float
Comet
Meteor
Immobilise
Disable
Vanish
Reflect

None of those are 'time' and more closely related to 'space'.

Meanwhile AST has:
Gravity (manipulation of spacetime)
Combust (animation is a shooting star, it's basically a mini comet)
Earthly Star (a literal star)
Macrocosmos/Microcosmos
Celestial Stasis
etc.

Plus a ton of Astrology terms:
Essential Dignity
Benefic and Malefic
Combust again
Synastry
Astrodyne
Exaltation

Astrology itself is fortune telling based on celestial bodies, fortune telling IS a form of time magic, you're predicting and/or altering the future, and celestial bodies are not only in space, but the movement of them enacting effects on the future is the interaction of space and time, physical movements altering time. Space-Time Magic.
I just don't understand why there's this prevailing idea that 'fortune teller' is somehow something entirely different. There's a very clear and obvious relationship there.


Lastly, here are some examples of Time Mages in the series:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...FFV_SD_art.png https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi..._Time_mage.jpg https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi..._Time_Mage.png

And here are some Astrologians from FF14:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi..._Forlemort.png < this guy existed before HW https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fi...tworkFFXIV.png

It seems pretty obvious to me that AST was always intended to emulate Time Mage, in fact I'd bet that before they decided to get rid of base classes, Astrologian was intended to be the base class to a later Time Mage job, in much the same way that Thaumaturge > BLM and Conjurer > WHM, Astrologian > TIM.

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

[on Onmyoji]

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Onmyoji are already mentioned in the game in some offhand comments. (I forget where exactly) but in the same way that Geomancy is likened to being 'similar to Conjury', Onmyoji are similar to Thaumaturges. It's the same sort of relationship, with Geomancers being in some sense opposed to the Onmyoji and vice versa.
Ultimately however, the job is basically Mystic or Oracle with a different name, so there's still a sense there of it being a classic FF job in some ways.

Then there's also the Ascetics, yet another eastern mage class that Gosetsu becomes in the level 85-90 Physical Ranged job quests.

There's no shortage of eastern mages to draw from, one of them has to be our next caster.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

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Onmyoji show up as enemies in Bozja. Much like Seiryu, they summon all sorts of critters using paper talismans, which is a common visual in media featuring their kind.

Their next appearance was actually last year's Heavensturn, where our character even acts surprised to see them (I guess because they'd only been enemies up until now) and said NPCs go out of their way to specify that they're not all bad, essentially? The event itself consisted of fighting an illusory tiger of their creation...

Based on all that, their weapon(s) could very well be either paper talismans (steps on AST's toes a bit), a calligraphy brush, or both...?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Though I’m all for a Geomancer caster and a Corsair scouting job, I would 100% prefer that they don’t add anything new and focus on fixing what we have in 7.0. I think everyone can agree jobs either feel way too similar, (healers, dark knight + warrior) way too simplified (summoner, tanks, healers) and/or way too different from what the “theme” of the job was supposed to be (sage, scholar)/ Plus I think we can all agree the leveling experience, in terms of when you gain skills, is way too slow. To the point of being downright boring.

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I feel part of the problem in all of these discussions is...we DON'T all agree on all these things.

Though I DO think there's common ground. For example, I'm a healer main, tank secondary and...play DPS when I must. SMN is just right for me. I hate DoTs (every healer bloody has one... >_<) and random procs where I have to watch my bars for things to light up instead of watching the battlefield. SMN has none of that. It's straightforward, it does the Job, and it allows people to be functional on it.

Likewise, the issue with healers isn't Job design (except their dps kits all being basically identical other than their AOE and their "extra" like Assize and Plegma; Toxicon and Misery are sorta variations on a similar thing - instant cast AOE that has to have a condition met before use), it's that the encounters don't do damage that forces them to use their whole kits (or their GCDs) as their oGCDs are ample and powerful enough to deal with it all.

I do feel like there is an issue with homogenization in a lot of places, though PART of this is because of players demanding it. <_< It would be nice to see SOME of the PvP creativity brought to PvE.

.

Chemist as a Caster gun (SEE: Outlaw Star) healer with a Mix mechanic like NIN Mudras as its "every 20 sec" thing (Lilies, Aetherflow, Draw, Addersgall) would work. Green Mage (or possibly Time Mage) as a DoT Mage (if Time, also with the ability to stock and later release spells from time for bigger burst), and Geomancer as probably a melee that builds combo points it can use to instant cast more powerful Stone/Water/Aero spells all seem feasible to add to FFXIV.

.

EDIT: I will note I HIGHLY disagree that healing "feels better" in PvP. I hate when I have damaged team members and can't heal them because ALL OF MY HEALS ARE GATED BEHIND CHARGES. And the heals (other than WHM's) seem to hit like wet noodles, if that. SGE can't heal at all if there are no enemies close by to attack. So no, healing DOES NOT feel better in PvP. It's an interesting change, but I'd rather it not have the charge system on heals. I do like PvP SCH's Emergency Tactics (up often and useful offensively as well as defensively), though.

With everyone and their cats suggesting Necromancer, something did occur to me today that could make it a possibility.
(It actually came to me after seeing a comic where they suggested oil is million year old dead sea creatures so you could necromance a barrel of oil into a slime golem XD)

What if instead of summoning dead people, you summoned Ashkin, dead creatures with no souls.

Bogy
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...loatedBogy.jpg

Bhoot
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...achi_Bhoot.png

Spectre
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/f/f1/Specter.png

Wraith
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/imag...Val_Wraith.png

Plus Bone Hounds, Dragons, Diresaurs.

This would be a way of including Beastmaster and Necromancer, in a way in which it is neither, and thus free to alter the direction and mechanics of the job as they see fit.

It might still be too similar to Reaper though.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I feel part of the problem in all of these discussions is...we DON'T all agree on all these things.

Though I DO think there's common ground. For example, I'm a healer main, tank secondary and...play DPS when I must. SMN is just right for me. I hate DoTs (every healer bloody has one... >_<) and random procs where I have to watch my bars for things to light up instead of watching the battlefield. SMN has none of that. It's straightforward, it does the Job, and it allows people to be functional on it.

Likewise, the issue with healers isn't Job design (except their dps kits all being basically identical other than their AOE and their "extra" like Assize and Plegma; Toxicon and Misery are sorta variations on a similar thing - instant cast AOE that has to have a condition met before use), it's that the encounters don't do damage that forces them to use their whole kits (or their GCDs) as their oGCDs are ample and powerful enough to deal with it all.
.

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The problem with summoner is that it went from being the most complex job in the game that focused on pet management (yeah the pet AI was clunky) and DoT upkeep to being so simple you can literally purple parse with a macro that plays the job for you. I would know, I've done it. And no, healer design is objectively bad and lazy. If you disagree, you simply don't know enough. Scholar and sage are, with the exception of five skills, completely identical. Ixochole and Indom are identical. Lustrate and Druochole are identical. Holos and Fey Blessing are functionally identical. Physis and whispering dawn are identical. Soteria and fey union are functionally identical. Addersgall is just less clunky aetherflow. Addersting is just more clunky ruin 2. Kardia is just a targeted embrace. Though I agree there isn't remotely enough incoming damage, the devs have said time and time again they won't increase how much damage enemies deal. Ergo, currently, it's a job design flaw. Part of it is that tanks' self sustain is absurdly powerful. Healers didn't used to be this bad. Back in stormblood and HW we had actual rotations. Scholar was the DoT job who had different fairies for what was going on. Astro's cards were actually fun, had varied effects and it had a ton of crowd control. White mage at least had fluid aura, cleric stance and aero 3. They are all objectively more boring, easier to play, and less fulfilling to improve on.

I hope one day we can get a Greatsword dps like Mystic Knight or Berserker.

Beastmaster and Puppetmaster seem like ideal Limited Job candidates (Pokemon...gooooo!!), though a non-limited Job using a whip makes sense as there are only so many "ranged physical" weapons that make sense while also seeming distinct.

I also think Ranged and Caster are likely the next additional Jobs. For Caster, Time Mage, Green Mage, and in theory Geomancer are all options...even if everyone envisions GEO as a melee fighter, which would make it Melee (SAM and NIN are both melees that use some magic). Alternatively, I COULD see them adding another Scouting user, under the same argument for adding RPR to balance out DRG/Maiming, even though Melee DPS were already the most numerous Jobs in the game.

So Ranged (possibly whip user), Caster (Time Mage or Green Mage as DoT users, Geomancer as a melee/caster hybrid), or something using Scouting (Corsair? Swashbuckler?) would be my first thoughts.

Though we might guess better as we get closer to the expansion since they say they pick new Jobs on the themes of the expansion. SGE was 6.0 and 6.1, and I feel RPR, in addition to Zenos, will probably play into 6.2-6.5 Void content.

EDIT: I am curious on Pets and Dots, though, since they had Jobs (or A Job) that did that, and they removedit supposedly because the game code/systems don't work well with (a) lots of DoTs and (b) pets. Though maybe I'm misremembering that somehow.

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

So since we have reaper and it's enshroud form we could get morpher :D. I'd also take a magic twin pistol caster job

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Morpher was in XI
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/thumb...ity_Header.jpg

Gambler was as-well.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/thumb...px-Corsair.jpg

Time Mage technically was.....
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Slow
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Haste
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Gravity

Mystic Knight was
https://www.bg-wiki.com/images/thumb...RuneFencer.png

Master was tied into a pretty neat series of quest.
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki...und_the_Bushin

And you could summon a Chemist
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Trust:_Monberaux

Reasons why XI is the FF G.O.A.T, and why I still play it, even while subbed to XIV.

We just saw a big rework of classes and finished the first saga, so I anticipate something different. My thoughts:

1. Stick with the formula and add a couple new jobs. One most likely ranged but one will be something completely different.

2. Upheave the whole job system with a soft "reset" for the new MSQ.

Here's what I would do...

1. New Jobs

• Ranged: Gambler
  • Summary: Proc-based, blend of dart/card throwing and "curses".
  • Play style: Stacking up effects on player and target and then unleashing them. Result reflects how optimal the mix is.
  • Unique element: Imitate the "just one more" feeling of slots and other luck-based games and the rush of the jackpot.
• Melee-Mage: Spellblade/Blademage
  • Summary: Combo-based, Garlean magitek with Eorzean magic.
  • Play style: Agile swashbuckler, a new martial school by former conscripts of Garlemald. Focuses on the elemental wheel and using complimentary (water->lightning) or opposing (fire+earth) for different effects.
  • Unique element: Uses runic as mitigation+MP restore combo.

2. Upheaval

• Dual level caps
  • Final increase to L100 - for Ultimates and other serious content.
  • New MSQ/zones sync level to L20 and rises to L50 by the end of the first chapter.
  • Classes already above the sync level of the current content get upscaled XP but stay synced until you've "cleared" the zone. (Think: aether currents.)
• First saga retired to New Game Plus
  • Still playable by old and new players alike, but no longer part of the "active" content. (New players can do it for MSQ rewards like mounts, but canonically became adventurers post-Endwalker.)
  • Some stand-alone duties (like Haukke Manor) remain in the roulettes; the rest are retired to Mentor and a new roulette for NG+ players.
  • Intros to Scions and major characters come in the 1-20 "new player" content.
  • New job quests for post-Endwalker world.
  • Soul crystals integrated to class from start.
• New class: Freelancer
  • Advanced Limited Class (requires one class at L100).
  • Level limit: 90 max, further syncs when running unrestricted parties through content from expansions after Endwalker (10 below level cap).
  • Weapon: The Kingsglaive, summons a magical version of the weapon for whatever skill you used last. Phantom weapon fades in a few seconds out of combat.
  • Mix-and-match like Blue Mage but uses "cost" to limit how many skills you can bring.
  • Has access to any abilities you've unlocked in other classes (except Blue Mage) with the above restriction plus a Freelancer level equal to or above the ability unlock level.
  • Only usable in NG+ content and NG+ roulette or in unrestricted parties. (Duties with Freelancer exclude various "current" content like the duties of the active expansion.)
  • Lore basis: Rather than wielding a single job crystal, we learn to draw a small amount from multiple at the same time. A limited amount from any of them, lest the memories stored within them overwhelm us and drive us mad...

Alot of FF jobs do seem to overlap though.

BLU, Morpher, Mime, Dragonkin

Summoner, BST, PUP, Dragonkin.

To name a few.

Isn't a Morpher and Mime just a BLU?

Isn't a SMN just a Magical Beastmaster?

This is an issue they had in XI with DRG and BST. BST could tame dragons (Puk), but they did not want to add dragon pets to BST, because it was "Lore breaking" for DRGs or something like that.....Notwithstanding BST in Dyanamis had Wyvern pets. XI DRG was a pet job for some reason, guess a throwback to the Highwinds iirc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Alot of FF jobs do seem to overlap though.

BLU, Morpher, Mime, Dragonkin

Summoner, BST, PUP, Dragonkin.

To name a few.

Isn't a Morpher and Mime just a BLU?

Isn't a SMN just a Magical Beastmaster?

This is an issue they had in XI with DRG and BST. BST could tame dragons (Puk), but they did not want to add dragon pets to BST, because it was "Lore breaking" for DRGs or something like that.....Notwithstanding BST in Dyanamis had Wyvern pets. XI DRG was a pet job for some reason, guess a throwback to the Highwinds iirc.

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I wish DRG would become a pet job in FFXIV, or at least get something like MCH or DRK.

I definitely disagree with SMN being a magical Beastmaster. In FFXI, BST could charm almost any mob found in the wild (something that wouldn't fit FFXIV's job design, unless I guess it would be limited), and it didn't rely on MP. The area/environment has no influence on the SMN, who uses MP to call forth summons - I mean, those summons also functioned as pets (something that is no longer true in FFXIV) but it was still a very different playing style (disclaimer: I stopped playing FFXI before the level cap was raised to 99, and when NIN was still functioning as a tank - oh I miss that sound of casting the shadows - and SMN was mostly functioning as a healer while leveling, but did deal big damage in important boss fight).

will wait and see what they come up with but for now will keep upgrading mt gear for all my jobs and meld them with better materia.ps waiting for this months update.

Chemist would be a dope new job. I could see it as both a healer or a melee magic dps. My vision would be that it uses a dagger as a weapon. If it was dps, it could have mid-range abilities that would use an elemental gun like in FF Tactics.

For resources, it would use MP for many abilities. That sounds like it goes without saying, but there are many jobs that don't use MP at all and I find it wasteful. I mean, you have the bar there. It's a fundamental FF resource. Why don't all jobs use it at least a tiny bit? This is a minor rant probably suitable for another topic, but oh well.

It would also use "ingredients" to make custom potions. This would be the core of the job. You would use your dagger to "harvest" ingredients from your targets, saving them up in a charge-like fashion, then use those charges to mix a potion with different results. There could be damaging, supportive, curative, and status effect combinations. I don't think it should be overly-complicated, but some complexity would be interesting. I guess it would sort of function like NIN does, as far as mixing and level of complexity.

Lastly, it could have some fun out-of-combat abilities. Yknow how Bards get to play music? Well Chemists could brew potions that do fun things like make you extra big, change your skin color, make sparkles, etc., that are all just fun temporary things to do in town.


The other job I'd like to see is Berserker. It could be another limited job like BLU, with fewer abilities than other jobs. It's primary role would be to help you handle solo content, so it could have a lot of self healing, movement speed bonuses, and high-damage abilities for bosses. I envision it using hammers as a weapon--big 2-handed ones--but it could also have a small buckler emphasizing its role as a durable damage dealer. It's main ability rotation would be "Berserk", where you lose control of your character as they focus blindly on a target. You'd get a bunch of armor and damage. It would last like 15 seconds. During this time I could see one of two options: 1, you get to combo a bunch of abilities really rapidly but you lose the ability to control movement; or 2, you can still move, but the rest of your character is automatically controlled. This would be a very user-friendly job. As I said before, it's main purpose would be soloing content, like hunting glams and rare items from old content or FATEs.

As an added note, limited jobs should be available for the duty support content. You should be able to use them when soloing the story!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

With the dev team leaning towards new and more interesting jobs, I think this frees them from having to keep pulling from the same tired/true job staples.

I'd like to see another caster DPS, inspired from the Witcher but with focusing on rune attacks with dual short swords as it's main weapon. Another hybrid like Red Mage since BLM and SMN are full casters.

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Call me a cynic but doesn't really matter what jobs they come up with or what they call them. They'll all play the same. They already do..

I think that's why a lot of people are of the opinion stuff new jobs just do a big overhaul and fix the jobs we got. Give them there identities back.

Come to think more about it... I wish they did just ONE job for 7.0 (that being a caster DPS), and the resources they would have to do a second job being allocated to fix design flaws on the old ones.

It would be a middle term that wouldn't let people that expect new jobs down, while directing resources to address things in need at the same time.

Any duel wielding class for scouting would be nice

geomancer as a tank would be cool

another cast cause we only have 3 (loking at you BLU)

gunner if they would bother but hey i doubt it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jon041065

BST wasn't designed to be a solo job on XI. The devs did make the choice that the charmed pet should reduce the exp the party gained off each kill. It wasn't worth it to have a BST between that and the need to charm a pet to have full dmg potential. If the devs intended it on being a solo job then they wouldn't have removed the exp penalty and added jug pets but there wasn't much reason to bring a BST over another DD. War was superior at dealing damage and could bring the axe weaponskills if you were wanting to use them in your SC. THF dmg wasn't spectacular either but at least had Trick Attack to give it the edge over BST. This isn't that much different than when ToAH came out and everyone was doing TP burn parties on imps except for BLMs. We were just told to go solo goldfish in Sea or jellies in that ToAH volcano zone.

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Matsui said it was on the official forums of XI. They stated BST was designed to be a solo class, but the inclusion of focused dungeon content forced them to change it. Think it was from 2020, but I digress.

Anyway, the Island $hit perhaps paves the way for BST. I mean, we are a decade in, if they don't add BST anytime soon, they simply aint adding it.......

A BST advocate as much as the next guy, but gotta be realistic.....XIV isn't going to last forever.

I would really love to see BST introduced as a regular job like any other inspired by Rinoa from Dissidia NT, where you have a specific pet that's used as an extension of your combos rather as an AI unit that fights alongside you. I've brought this up before on this thread in the past but I'll post the video again because I think it would be a really unique way of adapting the BST job to FFXIV without having to be a shitty limited job. Note that Rinoa has a mage stance, but I'm just thinking of her gameplay while using Angelo in the first half of this example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-qrbXF-fKM