The cat's (or femhroth in this case) outta the bag

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _Pigzig

does anyone play this race? not even a joke i havent seen any yet
only up to stormblood

---

While not in the miqo'te numbers ( shock i know ) i do see ok many Hrothgar players on Zodiark server daily.

Reposting for reference since my other post ended up right down the bottom of the previous page – the other mural of Gunnhildr which I think is specifically what the art is either based on or the basis of:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...7d931ac560.jpg

https://a.pomf.cat/tkujsj.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

They said "focus". I take that to mean putting all their resources into the one race before starting on the other.

---

That's an assumption, and that's not how production works. A lot of different things at different phases go into making a race or finished product, and "focus" isn't a laser beam of all-the-resources that you point at something until it's done. YP talked about how the big eureka moment was realizing that, if they allowed themselves to release them separately, they would greatly lessen the impact on their development of the game and the strain on their team. We, however, have no idea how production is being managed on these races.

For all we know, they solidified the concept for both genders long ago so that they could add both into the pipeline for new gear and emotes being created for 6.0, allowing themselves to focus on making the 1000s of models and all the emotes from the past ten years fit the Male Viera Parameters without worrying about clearing that huge backlog for Hrothgals yet. Such a course of action could result in them lessening the work for releasing Hrothgals, as there would be less catch up work to do if you know what they look like and are already accounting for them in future designs/ models and their backlog could be finished when the team isn't trying to make stuff like ARR gear fit male Viera.

That's just an example, the point is that we have no idea what their pipeline and timetable is looking like. We only know that they plan to release these 2 options separately/ as they finish them. Any assumption that they couldn't know what Hrothgals look like at this point in time because of that statement is simply a fallacy.

Quote:

---

Not if the decision to make her a Roegadyn happened after this initial concept art stage but before they moved on to implementing it into the game as a 3D model.

The only facts we can say for sure is that she was a Hrothgar at this concept stage and a Roegadyn in the game, and the plan was changed somewhere in between. That is not proof they started to build it according to this art.

---

That's a lot of assumptions there. "They designed her throughout the entire conceptual process to be a Hrothgal, even through the finalized art. BUT, this finalized concept art has no bearing on her final design. They didn't take the concept art into account when making the final product and just made a unique au ra/ viera mixed body for a Femroe for no reason related to any art for this character. The end product was not influenced by the finalized concept at all, and the devs just freestyled the body of an important NPC ... something we haven't seen them do".

Quote:

---

If you're arguing aganist me specifically then you're the one conflating arguments, because I never sad it looked like a Miqo'te.

---

You took a post not directed at you in any way and inserted yourself into the discussion. That original post about occams razor was directed at people trying to convince themselves that this was a Miqote. Establishing that this is intended to be a Hrothgal clears that up and is actually important to other points of discussion.

Also, if you see this as concept art for a female Hrothgar, then it stands to reason that the devs know/ knew what they want them to look like already.

Quote:

---

And yes, I agree the concept art is of a Hrothgar.

But no, I do not agree it looks like the specific piece of in-game art you think it matches.

---

If you can not see the resemblance in these faces then we're going to have to agree to disagree.
https://i.imgur.com/WJNhqHI.png

Tiny dot for nose indicating that it's small/ prominent human lips/ indication of eyebrows. For anyone who took the mural seriously, this art isn't a shock.
(And most people realize we can't clearly see what's going on with her body in the image we have, so it's not really a point of discussion.)

Quote:

---

As I covered earlier, being designed as a Hrothgar up to the stage of this finished art does not inherently mean that it made it further along to the 3D model stage.

And have we proven that it is a fully unique body, or just unique for Roegadyn? I thought people have said it's derived from a Viera, or from Sophia.

---

Do you have any specific reason to think that the devs would full on freestyle an entire important NPC's body without consulting or creating concept art? That very notion seems like a whole ass element of complexity that isn't needed, given that we can find concept art for everything in this game. Fairly large leap in logic to.

And people simply assumed that because it's pretty. If you care to pick apart the few scenes we get to clearly see her body and compare them to other females in the CC, you'll see the differences. Like I said, her musculature and frame closely resemble a mixture of Au Ra and Viera, but not exactly matching either of them. She even has "slight virgin posture" which makes sense for giving Hrothgals something as close to a hunch as you can get yet still being pretty.

Maybe I'll finish the diagram some day.

At this point we are mindlessly talking in circles and just arguing the same points over and over..

So far the only true point, is we wont know what they look like untill they release a FINALIZED, and OFFICAL render of an in game 3D Model.

Neither side will win this discussion/debate or be proven right or wrong until they are released.
Or we are shown real offical preview art like they did for the Males

I can't wait for their release. So exciting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

If you can not see the resemblance in these faces then we're going to have to agree to disagree.

---

I can see the resemblance in those faces (and never claimed otherwise) – but there's just as much in the other mural I linked. It's all very minimalist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

Do you have any specific reason to think that the devs would full on freestyle an entire important NPC's body without consulting or creating concept art?

---

No, but I didn't say I thought that either.

On the other hand I thought I said quite clearly that it's possible it was an existing model that they've reused from elsewhere – if not an NPC then a humanoid boss.

We also don't know if there was further concept art prepared for the Roegadyn version that made it into the game.



All your argument hinges on your belief that the body model was built for a Hrothgar but they didn't extend it to the head. I simply do not agree that it makes sense as the only possible explanation for why the queen has a unique body shape, to the point that it can be assumed now that it must be what they will look like.

You're welcome to believe it as your preferred answer, but other people are not being wilfully blind just because they disagree with your interpretation.

I don't think the solidity of the evidence is there, and I don't think this new art matches the body shape of the Roegadyn replacement we got in the game.

The murals have committed the devs to an approximate appearance of what Hrothgar will look like when they are made, but the conclusion that they are already made is a step too far into unproven assumption for my liking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I can see the resemblance in those faces (and never claimed otherwise) – but there's just as much in the other mural I linked. It's all very minimalist.

---

The mural you linked to doesn't even have arms and seems more like a loose interpretation of the character, designed so that you can go "Oh, that's what that thing from the first title card was" once you actually fight it ... so IDK why you're so dead sit on pointing at it.

Quote:

---

No, but I didn't say I thought that either.

On the other hand I thought I said quite clearly that it's possible it was an existing model that they've reused from elsewhere – if not an NPC then a humanoid boss.

We also don't know if there was further concept art prepared for the Roegadyn version that made it into the game.

---

I think that shows a very flawed understanding of how clothing and models are made in this game on your part, as well as willful ignorance of the data provided numerous times.
And IDK if you own any art books for this game, but they don't go into different phases of the conceptual art stage for bosses in the 1 I have. If there's any front/ back art of this character, it would likely be of the Hrothgal shown in the art (And given that people already have the book, I'm inclined to think this is the only art of the queen in it).

Quote:

---

All your argument hinges on your belief that the body model was built for a Hrothgar but they didn't extend it to the head. I simply do not agree that it makes sense as the only possible explanation for why the queen has a unique body shape, to the point that it can be assumed now that it must be what they will look like.

You're welcome to believe it as your preferred answer, but other people are not being wilfully blind just because they disagree with your interpretation.

I don't think the solidity of the evidence is there, and I don't think this new art matches the body shape of the Roegadyn replacement we got in the game.

The murals have committed the devs to an approximate appearance of what Hrothgar will look like when they are made, but the conclusion that they are already made is a step too far into unproven assumption for my liking.

---

I never said my explanation was the only possible 1, I started out simply asking people to not do mental gymnastics to try to say that this is actually a Miqote (as that's clearly disconfirmation bais speaking). You took that and tried to paint a picture where in there are only 2 options, 1 that you made a grossy large assumption in bad faith and another that ignores all data surrounding this topic to brush it off. That "It's either A or B" was you.

Though I never said my explanation is the only one, I do think it's the simplest that doesn't ignore every bit of data we have available to us + makes the fewest baseless assumptions. "The Character was designed to be a Hrothgal up to the finalized art stage, this may be why she has a uniquely non-Femroe body, as she was supposed to be a Hrothgal" is a pretty tame line of thought. This is just a part 2 to my stance since the mural and Queen were revealed that "Oh, this Femroe has a body shape that looks just like these Hrothgar shrine maidens in the mural. This could be an indication of what Hrothgals will look like".

You seem dead set on thinking that the Queen's appearance has nothing to do with Hrothgar if my memory of the other thread is correct, so it's not a shock at all that this convo went this way.
Ehh, like I said many a time ... You do you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

At this point we are mindlessly talking in circles and just arguing the same points over and over..

So far the only true point, is we wont know what they look like untill they release a FINALIZED, and OFFICAL render of an in game 3D Model.

---

"mindlessly talking in circles" is the exact reason I stopped coming here. Like I said, my interest in discussion on this topic is in prognostication. A number of people here have made it clear that's not what they're into, that you want what you want and refuse to accept anything other than a 3D model when discussing what they will look like.

I myself look at all they're doing and like to make some sense outta it. Arguing "wants" and "shoulds" isn't really my thing, the devs gonna do what they do.
So I think I really will dip out and go back to my reg stumping grounds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

"mindlessly talking in circles" is the exact reason I stopped coming here. Like I said, my interest in discussion on this topic is in prognostication. A number of people here have made it clear that's not what they're into, that you want what you want and refuse to accept anything other than a 3D model when discussing what they will look like.

I myself look at all they're doing and like to make some sense outta it. Arguing "wants" and "shoulds" isn't really my thing, the devs gonna do what they do.
So I think I really will dip out and go back to my reg stumping grounds.

---

Well Prognostication wont reach everybody...or even most people. A 3D Model in Game is the Only thing that will prove and Disprove anything. Everything before the Model is pure speculation, no matter how much you bring to the table. I can sit here and argue your idea makes no sense from a design standpoint, and you can counter that it makes sense and we have a handful of proof, I can deny that "proof" based on how the Au-Ra were designed, you can call me blind and say Im ignoring "proof" presented and ask me if I think the devs are trying to fool me, and I can bring up the original design Philosophy behind said race.....this can go in circles forever with neither side budging. The only answer is the reveal we get from the Devs that show the finalized Render.

At the end of the day The Devs will make what they make. Nobody here Im sure thinks they have the power to dictate what will happen...wishes and "what we want" are just that. Just like in the Male Viera Thread.

I wanted them released with ShB! I was so bummed when they were male only. And I am not let down my the concept art either. Don't speak for us all please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

At the end of the day The Devs will make what they make. Nobody here Im sure thinks they have the power to dictate what will happen...wishes and "what we want" are just that. Just like in the Male Viera Thread.

---

I just hope they make the faces for them as bestial as the males. If they can reject a male Hrothgar face for looking like a Miqo'te (somehow. It was mostly feline in appearance), then I feel they should do the same for the females. Furry beast race gotta make sense, otherwise it'll be more jarring than Au Ra o:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

I just hope they make the faces for them as bestial as the males. If they can reject a male Hrothgar face for looking like a Miqo'te (somehow. It was mostly feline in appearance), then I feel they should do the same for the females. Furry beast race gotta make sense, otherwise it'll be more jarring than Au Ra o:

---

Im there with ya. Since its a Beast Race, it should look...like a Beast XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

The mural you linked to doesn't even have arms and seems more like a loose interpretation of the character, designed so that you can go "Oh, that's what that thing from the first title card was" once you actually fight it ... so IDK why you're so dead sit on pointing at it.

---

And where are the arms on the drawn version of the character?

I'm reading both as "arms inside the machine puppeteering it".

That is, I'd guessed that about why her arms weren't visible in the new art and then I went back to find that mural and realised it has the same look to it, which explains something that was hard to interpret from the stylised mural.

I also think her "headdress" might actually be part of the machine as well – the metal colour is the same and the dark brown cloth that drapes around her neck seems to stretch all the way back to connect with the cockpit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

I think that shows a very flawed understanding of how clothing and models are made in this game on your part, as well as willful ignorance of the data provided numerous times.

---

Why assume "wilful" ignorance? I don't have access to data, but from observation, the Ruby Princess boss model is wearing the Thavnairian outfit, suggesting that models are interchangeable between NPCs and humanoid bosses.

Additionally, as people like to remind us in various discussions, all female models are derived from the Midlander with some stretching and resizing, which indicates that the same could be done again with another compatible model, presumably by whatever mechanism all gear is modified from the Midlander base in the first place.

Or they could have just created this model directly from the Midlander base too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

I never said my explanation was the only possible 1, I started out simply asking people to not do mental gymnastics to try to say that this is actually a Miqote (as that's clearly disconfirmation bais speaking). You took that and tried to paint a picture where in there are only 2 options, 1 that you made a grossy large assumption in bad faith and another that ignores all data surrounding this topic to brush it off. That "It's either A or B" was you.

Though I never said my explanation is the only one, I do think it's the simplest that doesn't ignore every bit of data we have available to us + makes the fewest baseless assumptions. "The Character was designed to be a Hrothgal up to the finalized art stage, this may be why she has a uniquely non-Femroe body, as she was supposed to be a Hrothgal" is a pretty tame line of thought. This is just a part 2 to my stance since the mural and Queen were revealed that "Oh, this Femroe has a body shape that looks just like these Hrothgar shrine maidens in the mural. This could be an indication of what Hrothgals will look like".

You seem dead set on thinking that the Queen's appearance has nothing to do with Hrothgar if my memory of the other thread is correct, so it's not a shock at all that this convo went this way.
Ehh, like I said many a time ... You do you.

---

Yes, this is resuming that conversation because, as I said, I think it's a massive assumption and yet there you were telling other people to apply the critical thinking process and not make assumptions.

Also, I went back to the post I quoted you from, and you weren't saying anything, at least clearly, about addressing the claims she was a Miqo'te. Just talking again about how Gunnhildr doesn't have a standard body and is clearly intended to be a Hrothgar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

I just hope they make the faces for them as bestial as the males. If they can reject a male Hrothgar face for looking like a Miqo'te (somehow. It was mostly feline in appearance), then I feel they should do the same for the females. Furry beast race gotta make sense, otherwise it'll be more jarring than Au Ra o:

---

Personally, I'm hoping for more like khajiit. Digitigrade legs would be bonus points but no one ever does those anymore. T.T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Personally, I'm hoping for more like khajiit. Digitigrade legs would be bonus points but no one ever does those anymore. T.T

---

I don't actually know if FFXIV has feet rigged to bend at the toes (probably not?) but if it did animating "digitigrade" races to always be tiptoeing would've been a decent, if lazy, compromise. Wouldn't look very good with most footwear most likely, but it wouldn't require refitting every single one to an entirely new model

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsiron

I don't actually know if FFXIV has feet rigged to bend at the toes (probably not?) but if it did animating "digitigrade" races to always be tiptoeing would've been a decent, if lazy, compromise. Wouldn't look very good with most footwear most likely, but it wouldn't require refitting every single one to an entirely new model

---

What I would like to see is shoes that gives the appearance of beasty digitigrade feet, I think that would be a good compromise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

I just hope they make the faces for them as bestial as the males. If they can reject a male Hrothgar face for looking like a Miqo'te (somehow. It was mostly feline in appearance), then I feel they should do the same for the females. Furry beast race gotta make sense, otherwise it'll be more jarring than Au Ra o:

---

I agree, especially in a game already rife with the extremely cutesy-style characters anyone can already play. Variety'd be nice, and strong, scary hrothgar ladies would be dope instead of Miqo'te (Elezen Ver.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsiron

I don't actually know if FFXIV has feet rigged to bend at the toes (probably not?) but if it did animating "digitigrade" races to always be tiptoeing would've been a decent, if lazy, compromise. Wouldn't look very good with most footwear most likely, but it wouldn't require refitting every single one to an entirely new model

---

Considering we float and wear sandals ontop of that, any kind of unique feet is out of the window.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

What I would like to see is shoes that gives the appearance of beasty digitigrade feet, I think that would be a good compromise.

---

There's at least a couple that do, for example the Werewolf and Moogle costumes come to mind. A few are armoured too but I can't remember off the top of my head, I think it was the Warg sets?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Considering we float and wear sandals ontop of that, any kind of unique feet is out of the window.

---

It's a moot point anyway since I don't think FFXIV has jointed feet, as far as I can tell, but my point was they wouldn't have to model unique feet that way lol, it would've all been handled by the animations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsiron

There's at least a couple that do, for example the Werewolf and Moogle costumes come to mind. A few are armoured too but I can't remember off the top of my head, I think it was the Warg sets?

---

Warg and Bonewicca (at least striking and casting from what I recall). The werewolf feet are still the most natural looking of the 3 anyways, even if they have those dumb shin protectors. Kinda wish Hrothgar got digitigrade paws on their starter gear much like how Viera got their 'Viera feet' with their heels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I don’t think the starting gear for Viera is “Viera feet”. They look like normal feet in very tall heels that have fake claws on the end.

---

Because if they made it any higher, their legs would end up looking disproportionately short - either way, they're the tallest heels in the game and makes their feet quite noticeable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

Warg and Bonewicca (at least striking and casting from what I recall). The werewolf feet are still the most natural looking of the 3 anyways, even if they have those dumb shin protectors. Kinda wish Hrothgar got digitigrade paws on their starter gear much like how Viera got their 'Viera feet' with their heels.

---

I don’t think the starting gear for Viera is “Viera feet”. They look like normal feet in very tall heels that have fake claws on the end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsiron

I don't actually know if FFXIV has feet rigged to bend at the toes (probably not?) but if it did animating "digitigrade" races to always be tiptoeing would've been a decent, if lazy, compromise. Wouldn't look very good with most footwear most likely, but it wouldn't require refitting every single one to an entirely new model

---

Wow did it(hooved and wolf races), but TES stopped after Oblivion because flat feet are easier to make boots for. Everquest 2 also has feet like this.

Wow gets around it by cutting boots off below the ankle on Draenei, Tauren and Worgen. Trolls particularly have "special" three toed feet that also don't fit in boots.

In morrowind, beast races just couldn't wear boots. They could as lso just make them invisible.

Options abound.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Wow did it(hooved and wolf races), but TES stopped after Oblivion because flat feet are easier to make boots for. Everquest 2 also has feet like this.

Wow gets around it by cutting boots off below the ankle on Draenei, Tauren and Worgen. Trolls particularly have "special" three toed feet that also don't fit in boots.

In morrowind, beast races just couldn't wear boots. They could as lso just make them invisible.

Options abound.

---

Wow doesn't use the same body mesh for 90% races, or actual 3d armor ( sans the glued hot mess for some of the newer sets ) so kind of a moot point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Wow did it(hooved and wolf races), but TES stopped after Oblivion because flat feet are easier to make boots for. Everquest 2 also has feet like this.

Wow gets around it by cutting boots off below the ankle on Draenei, Tauren and Worgen. Trolls particularly have "special" three toed feet that also don't fit in boots.

In morrowind, beast races just couldn't wear boots. They could as lso just make them invisible.

Options abound.

---

It's highly likely if they were given unusual feet, it'd mean no boots... which after how much backlash the bunny hats got them, I don't think they wanna face the same thing for boots.

The character creation system they're using obviously has some limitations, that have made some things either impossible or far more difficult/time consuming (bunny hats, butt sliders to name some of the biggest issues the community has).

If the choice is- normal feet, and normal boot options with little to no backlash- or put in considerable effort into making more complex feet and then getting a very angry community as your reward... well, it's fairly obvious what choice any developer would make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

It's highly likely if they were given unusual feet, it'd mean no boots... which after how much backlash the bunny hats got them, I don't think they wanna face the same thing for boots.

---

Especially the 2b boots, people would riot if they couldn't wear those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jin-

Their faces weren't that bestial in the FFX.

---

No they definitely looked bestial, they had distinctly feline facial features:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-dzGkiU...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESRTyTuX...g&name=900x900

Though they looked a lot more softer compared to the males' more rugged looking features.

I still believe we're putting way too much stock in that concept art. Since we're going several pages on it: Remember the Au Ra concept art. Fool me once..

We won't get beast feet. We can't even get bare human feet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by -JayJay-

No they definitely looked bestial, they had distinctly feline facial features:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-dzGkiU...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESRTyTuX...g&name=900x900

Though they looked a lot more softer compared to the males' more rugged looking features.

---

That surely wouldn't come out too differently to the sketched face in the concept art? It's really only the dark markings around the eyes (which might be makeup) that define the sides of the nose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

It's highly likely if they were given unusual feet, it'd mean no boots... which after how much backlash the bunny hats got them, I don't think they wanna face the same thing for boots.

---

The fandom would accept it if the devs made it look good.

Hooves are kind of a selling point. If you have hooves or clawed feet, you probably don't want to cover up it with some generic human looking boots. The key is that there just need to be enough visual customization to the feet. Even doing the bare minimum like FFXIV does and giving your 4 options to pick from would be good, so long as the feet were visually distinct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

It's really only the dark markings around the eyes (which might be makeup) that define the sides of the nose.

---

I went ahead and edited out the dark markings just to see it.
https://i.imgur.com/L2JdVOD.png

Wait, such a commotion for a concept art that shows like 40% of the character sitting in a way that you can't even tell how the proportions are?

About the face... As far as I'm concerned, most of the races get a "cute" option, and that is probably how it translated into that art style.

Like I said. Doesn't look that bestial like the male ones are. These look like blue cats, house cats.

I might even change race to this if It looks similar to that book art/ffx

what people expected from FF14?_? they just doing the bare minimun in this things for some time. like how unique was viera after all? its clear what they are not willing to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Wow doesn't use the same body mesh for 90% races, or actual 3d armor ( sans the glued hot mess for some of the newer sets ) so kind of a moot point.

---

Everquest 2 does modeled armor, and even specially modeled helmets and boots for their beastial races, like Sarnak(dragon guys) and Iksar(lizards, but more humanoid than Sarnak). Helmets on Sarnak when I played last were just metal plates on their foreheads and snouts. And I do mean dragon men, they were a dragon blood experiment iirc.

As for wow, shoulders, most belts, parts of some pants, gloves and boots are modeled. It's not all just flat textures. A lot of the older stuff is, but later stuff has 3d parts on it. That's why their feet work. They cut the boots off at the ankles, so only the part that wraps around your lower leg is shown, and the foot is not.

Morrowind didn't have copy/paste 3d models either, but it's not an MMO so it doesn't matter I guess. Though most of their stuff *was* painted on, too.

Most games that use 3d modeled stuff replaces the body with the item in question, not contains the body inside the item. Like, if you put on a full closed helmet, your head actually disappears and all you see is the helmet. other games just remove your hair for the same thing. Skyrim is notoriously bad for that. Removing long hair to fit in the simplest hats.... I rant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

. Like, if you put on a full closed helmet, your head actually disappears and all you see is the helmet. other games just remove your hair for the same thing. Skyrim is notoriously bad for that. Removing long hair to fit in the simplest hats.... I rant.

---

That's literally every Western game. Sadly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Like, if you put on a full closed helmet, your head actually disappears and all you see is the helmet. other games just remove your hair for the same thing. Skyrim is notoriously bad for that. Removing long hair to fit in the simplest hats.... I rant.

---

That's what the Skyrim modding community is for, and probably why Bethesda does the bare minimum. They know they can get away with it because the players will fix the problems on their own at no extra cost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snorky

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. You are looking at concept art

---

What I find funny is that people say that about healer changes, tank changes and everything else changes till everything is finalised and then there is no turning back. This is a forum for feedback. If some people say they don't like the concept then that's their right to say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

what people expected from FF14?_? they just doing the bare minimun in this things for some time. like how unique was viera after all? its clear what they are not willing to do.

---

The "uniqueness" was not the issue with viera. The problem with the race is the very lackluster implementation, viera in XII is an amazing race. Viera in XIV has very lacking customization, character and we haven't even been to where they originate on the Source so the lore is mostly tell don't show and from the viera of the First, which doesn't really cut it.

As for my opinion on the topic as a whole if female hrothgar is going to look anything like that ingame, I'll be a happy camper. Don't much care for bestial races in general and this looks like a happy medium between bestial and just a human with a tail and a cat ears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imora

Everquest 2 does modeled armor, and even specially modeled helmets and boots for their beastial races, like Sarnak(dragon guys) and Iksar(lizards, but more humanoid than Sarnak). Helmets on Sarnak when I played last were just metal plates on their foreheads and snouts. And I do mean dragon men, they were a dragon blood experiment iirc.

As for wow, shoulders, most belts, parts of some pants, gloves and boots are modeled. It's not all just flat textures. A lot of the older stuff is, but later stuff has 3d parts on it. That's why their feet work. They cut the boots off at the ankles, so only the part that wraps around your lower leg is shown, and the foot is not.

Morrowind didn't have copy/paste 3d models either, but it's not an MMO so it doesn't matter I guess. Though most of their stuff *was* painted on, too.

Most games that use 3d modeled stuff replaces the body with the item in question, not contains the body inside the item. Like, if you put on a full closed helmet, your head actually disappears and all you see is the helmet. other games just remove your hair for the same thing. Skyrim is notoriously bad for that. Removing long hair to fit in the simplest hats.... I rant.

---

Props to everquest 2 I guess.
I know how the wow engine works, there's a few built in glove, shoes, tabards, pants and the ugly WWE belt, the difference is that most races have a specific foot model without toes and not just an knee thing, hooved races obviously lack this part, even then it's like 5 models that modify at the knee vs ffxiv's ton of unique boot models that are scaled from midlander in most cases. You cannot really compare the two as FFXIV is more like building together legos while WoW has 90% of the 3d deformities built into each race, sans the helmets, and shoulders, and some belts and the newer 3d stuff known as collections. Regardless with the way FFXIV's armors are set up it'd require a lot of remodelling for the boots, since you can't elegantly just cut stuff off down there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sheriyana

As for my opinion on the topic as a whole if female hrothgar is going to look anything like that ingame, I'll be a happy camper. Don't much care for bestial races in general and this looks like a happy medium between bestial and just a human with a tail and a cat ears.

---

That's the issue (imo), though. The females should look just as bestial as the males (meaning their faces and fur-skin), as Hrothgar are the furry/beast race. If they have a mostly human face and no fur, then how can they even be Hrothgar? It'd be more jarring than Au Ra's sexual dimorphism.

Players already have multiple options for human women (with animal ears/tails and horns if they please), but there isn't a bestial/furry woman yet. This is why the artbook has me concerned; that SE is going to go the usual beauty (95% human) and the beast (Hrothgar males) route as most MMO's/games tend to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

That's the issue (imo), though. The females should look just as bestial as the males (meaning their faces and fur-skin), as Hrothgar are the furry/beast race. If they have a mostly human face and no fur, then how can they even be Hrothgar? It'd be more jarring than Au Ra's sexual dimorphism.

Players already have multiple options for human women (with animal ears/tails and horns if they please), but there isn't a bestial/furry woman yet. This is why the artbook has me concerned; that SE is going to go the usual beauty (95% human) and the beast (Hrothgar males) route as most MMO's/games tend to do.

---

Yeah, that was just my personal preference, I can understand why people are disappointed with the shown depiction of them. I just hope we'll end up getting the half of the race sooner rather than later and it damn better be more feature complete than male hrothgar and female viera after all this wait. Though I think we all know if Shadowbringers has been anything to go by, it won't, we'll be lucky to get it at all.