So, a lottery system and a divide between FC and solo wards, eh?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is his way of deflecting questions or criticization throw at him; a strategy of deflecting.
Many posters here had a debate with him, he always use this method to avoid question he cant answer or something clearly put him in odd.
Pick something not important and just stick to it.

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Their reply to my final post to them is a good example. A 12yr old could understand the common sense and logic behind what I explained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rofel

Click on the person's name

View Profile

Add to Ignore List

Confirm

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Bless. My experience is about to get a lot better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is his way of deflecting questions or criticization throw at him; a strategy of deflecting.
Many posters here had a debate with him, he always use this method to avoid question he cant answer or something clearly put him in odd.
Pick something not important and just stick to it.

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Either that or they’ll pick out something innocuous you’ve said and act like you’re attacking their very being, and when you explain rationally that “no, just because I am repeating what you said to someone who asked does not mean I am attacking you, nor do I need to copy and paste the entire QUOTE when the quote links to the full version,” they’ll simply start doing the La La La motion and say you’re clearly attacking them and refuse to apologize lmao.

No, I’m not salty, what are you talking about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

Either that or they’ll pick out something innocuous you’ve said and act like you’re attacking their very being, and when you explain rationally that “no, just because I am repeating what you said to someone who asked does not mean I am attacking you, nor do I need to copy and paste the entire QUOTE when the quote links to the full version,” they’ll simply start doing the La La La motion and say you’re clearly attacking them and refuse to apologize lmao.

No, I’m not salty, what are you talking about?

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I think you should keep demand that apology

#Apology2Milkie

I'm all for the lottery system, as long as it stops a person from buying up entire housing wards

I just don't want to be around a hoard of shirogane houses
It's why I want to move my current plot- to get away from those lego-block looking houses

SE should just increase interior item limit for all houses & apartments. Implement roommates in an apartment- rather than just person per apartment

Say its time we get back on topic...the steam has been released some tension got out. Back to discussing housing..

I would like to at least see separate alts having the same privileges' in a house per account. I think that would free up some spaces. For me, the 1 small FC house, my personal medium and an apartment is fine. I have had separate alts but they were in the FC. I'd rather have them in my medium house. Long term solution of course is instanced solo housing. It works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Besame

I would like to at least see separate alts having the same privileges' in a house per account. I think that would free up some spaces. For me, the 1 small FC house, my personal medium and an apartment is fine. I have had separate alts but they were in the FC. I'd rather have them in my medium house. Long term solution of course is instanced solo housing. It works.

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One idea I think would be helpful is allowing eternally bond couples to reset a house timer so long has they are sharing the same house. Further the spouse that is the tenant cannot own a personal of their own, if do then both players they will have to reset their own timers as normal. Similar to the personal house restriction it would be limited to 1 per account per world. So no using the EB system to obtain multiple personals on one world.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

I'd agree with you on this. Except no demo timer and no rent to be paid. Just allow a tenant to run through the house to keep it from auto demoing, which is the same for FCs .

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This one change is something players have asked for for a long time and would honestly help otnof people get houses.. as it would actively allow players to share plots propey which right now noone does because if the owner takes a break all the tenants lose there house... even if they actively use it every day...

Fixing tenancy would go along way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

This one change is something players have asked for for a long time and would honestly help otnof people get houses.. as it would actively allow players to share plots propey which right now noone does because if the owner takes a break all the tenants lose there house... even if they actively use it every day...

Fixing tenancy would go along way

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Would need to limit to 1 per person kinda like How I mentioned above. Letting every tenant reset the timer could lead to a reset mafia, just a chain of players resetting each others demo timers. You could some what avoid it by putting a rule that say you can only reset one demo timer as a tenant. Not %100 sure as I thought it up off the top of my head.

After careful thought ya, would need it too be one tenant with a 1 character per world restritction.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

first of all, of course not, I'm not making suggestions for a game that will make it worse for my fellow players. :)

second all, what do that has to do with anything?

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You're still blaming the victim....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is his way of deflecting questions or criticization throw at him; a strategy of deflecting.
Many posters here had a debate with him, he always use this method to avoid question he cant answer or something clearly put him in odd.
Pick something not important and just stick to it.

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Hooray... more misgendering >.>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

I think you should keep demand that apology

#Apology2Milkie

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Only once they understand why they are wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Say its time we get back on topic...the steam has been released some tension got out. Back to discussing housing..

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Yes, the two minutes hate has ended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

I think you should keep demand that apology

#Apology2Milkie

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I even helped out by apologizing first! Even when I know that even when taken out of context I did nothing wrong, I decided hey, maybe I should just apologize anyways, because I know how it sucks to have others take what you say out of context to try to twist it (despite the fact that that was clearly not what I was doing.)

And they’ve still decided “nope! no apology from me! Im right theyre wrong BLAHLBALAHSBALWJE”

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I even helped out by apologizing first! Even when I know that even when taken out of context I did nothing wrong, I decided hey, maybe I should just apologize anyways, because I know how it sucks to have others take what you say out of context to try to twist it (despite the fact that that was clearly not what I was doing.)

And they’ve still decided “nope! no apology from me! Im right theyre wrong BLAHLBALAHSBALWJE”

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You edited the quote and the editorialized it giving something taken out of context completely new context that was not what was originally intended... then proceeded to QQ about how you were somehow in the right and did nothing wrong. Spare me your theatrics and false apologies.

So before getting into this, for the scope of this post I consider a legitimate FC to be one with more than 4 members, while a shell FC is one that has between 1-3 members. Also, due to the restrictions outlined at https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...&tag=freetrial free trial accounts are completely irrelevant to anything housing as they do not have enough gil to buy an apartment (let alone a house) and cannot join (much less create) an FC.

One of the things I think we should start zeroing into is the supply side of things. I think a good thing to do is start with defining exactly how much supply we need, starting with the personal houses. Going by https://ffxivcensus.com/ there are roughly 650k active players (although that number is definitely in dispute and doesn't take into consideration the influx of Asmonsprouts). So pulling in the data from https://www.xivhousing.com/ (which has greatly improved since the last time I have seen it), there are roughly 267k personal and vacant houses across all of FFXIV, so we're looking at roughly 40% saturation for the houses going by this number.

If no additional wards are going to be added, Ishgard will add about another 98k houses across all servers (68 unless I failed at counting >.>). That's going to help the personal house side of things greatly if at least half of those are in personal house only wards. SE should probably also add 6 more wards to bring it up to an even 30, and then continue to add in neighborhoods as time progresses at 30 wards until housing stops being a problem.... like having us help rebuild Ala Mhigo and giving us Ala Mhigan housing... and possibly Sharlyan housing down the line.

So looking at the FC houses, there are roughly 120k FC houses worldwide, and using https://www.xivhousing.com/2021-cens...enters-regions to slice the data, roughly 23k of those are shell FC houses, that's about 20% of all FC houses worldwide are shell FC houses. Like I have been saying for a long time, the shell FCs need to be dealt with because they are exacerbating the housing problem, with the Chocobo server being the mascot for this problem having 2613 FC houses with 891 of those houses belonging to a shell FC, the single highest of all of the servers both in terms of legitimate and shell FC housing.

Yes we need more supply, but the shell FC issue CANNOT continued to be ignored because it's making this entire housing thing harder than it needs to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

This one change is something players have asked for for a long time and would honestly help otnof people get houses.. as it would actively allow players to share plots propey which right now noone does because if the owner takes a break all the tenants lose there house... even if they actively use it every day...

Fixing tenancy would go along way

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Tbh I was surprised they didn't allow for this already. I agree with whoever said cut it down to 1 tenant. And like FCs, if the housing owner doesn't return after 45 days, the house is transferred to the tenant rather than demolish. Probably cut down on some of the demand for housing. Right now, being a tenant just feels like you have a teleport spot, but if anything happens to the homeowner you're out a house since you aren't the owner. And any furniture and the 80 percent of placard cost goes to the homeowner, including anything the tenant dropped in there.

The idea has merit. And would placate some people I'm sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

If no additional wards are going to be added, Ishgard will add about another 98k houses across all servers

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Standard speculation warning, but we're probably going to be at 30 wards (9000 houses) by 6.35 at the latest. So Ishgard should be 1800 houses per server by a few months after release.

Reasoning:
3.3 was +3 wards https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...43b40551d1e3e8
4.2 just post Shiro was +6 wards https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...33e139e9792abf
5.1 was +3 wards, 5.35 was +3 wards https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...716915b851002f , https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c440f300e12f75

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Standard speculation warning, but we're probably going to be at 30 wards (9000 houses) by 6.35 at the latest. So Ishgard should be 1800 houses per server by a few months after release.

Reasoning:
3.3 was +3 wards https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...43b40551d1e3e8
4.2 just post Shiro was +6 wards https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...33e139e9792abf
5.1 was +3 wards, 5.35 was +3 wards https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...716915b851002f , https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...c440f300e12f75

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Best solution after hitting 30 wards is to just add a new neighborhood with each expansion until we get housing saturation.

RNG in the gathering forum
-RNG is rigged, I keep missing 4 out of 5 attempts at 95% gathering rate.

RNG on the crafting forum
-RNG is bugged and streaks, skills keep failing most of the time. Hasty fails 90% of the time!

RNG on the combat forum
-RNG sucks, I never roll above 20 on the loot rolls. I'll never get the 2B pants.

RNG on the housing forum
-Yay lottery, this will create world peace and solve hunger across Eorzea.

This is going to end well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

You edited the quote and the editorialized it giving something taken out of context completely new context that was not what was originally intended... then proceeded to QQ about how you were somehow in the right and did nothing wrong. Spare me your theatrics and false apologies.

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Maybe you need to take a step back, because what I did was this:

“Hey, isn’t MilkieTea the person who started the Off Topic Discussion Megathread?”

“Wait, really? Proof!”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I think it's high time we have a generic off-topic thread

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“Only reason I even remember theyre the one who made the thread is because I saw an argument with them and someone else and MilkieTea said something kinda dumb.”

Everyone is free to check it out btw, but the context is Almagnus’ housing relocation timer, versus the example I gave here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

RNG in the gathering forum
-RNG is rigged, I keep missing 4 out of 5 attempts at 95% gathering rate.

RNG on the crafting forum
-RNG is bugged and streaks, skills keep failing most of the time. Hasty fails 90% of the time!

RNG on the combat forum
-RNG sucks, I never roll above 20 on the loot rolls. I'll never get the 2B pants.

RNG on the housing forum
-Yay lottery, this will create world peace and solve hunger across Eorzea.

This is going to end well.

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I mean, if someone could come up with a better solution that also eliminated the need for people to camp the placard for hours on end I think we'd go with that, but the RNG is really the best worst option out of a slew of really bad ideas... and still better than what's there now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Tbh I was surprised they didn't allow for this already. I agree with whoever said cut it down to 1 tenant. And like FCs, if the housing owner doesn't return after 45 days, the house is transferred to the tenant rather than demolish. Probably cut down on some of the demand for housing. Right now, being a tenant just feels like you have a teleport spot, but if anything happens to the homeowner you're out a house since you aren't the owner. And any furniture and the 80 percent of placard cost goes to the homeowner, including anything the tenant dropped in there.

The idea has merit. And would placate some people I'm sure.

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I mentioned the 1 tenant idea along a restriction of 1 character per world being allowed to reset as a tenant. Its to avoid the domino effect as its called.

For those who don't get the domino effect. 1 domino knocks over 2, 2 knock over 4 and so on. Now apply that too tenancy, home owner has 3 tenants who each have a personal house with 3 tenants who...you get the idea. Letting tenants reset a timer is fine so long as its tightly restricted as described above..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Would need to limit to 1 per person kinda like How I mentioned above. Letting every tenant reset the timer could lead to a reset mafia, just a chain of players resetting each others demo timers. You could some what avoid it by putting a rule that say you can only reset one demo timer as a tenant. Not %100 sure as I thought it up off the top of my head.

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That would nt solve anything... THe reason players dont want to share houses is because they have no right's or control. so you need to allow ALL tenants the power to reset the demo timers and maintain the safety of there homes. the system already limits the number of tenants you can have so its not like its gonna be a mafia of 100 tenants keeping 1 guys house standing.

limitiing it to 1 tenant. does absolutely nothing to fix the problem of people not willing to share houses. when a lot of people have frequently said in all these housing threads they would happily share with friends if they had more power as tenants.. instead of the crap we have now where your teneants can be using the plot every day and pooof up in goes in a cloud of smoke..

i have a medium in shorogane. my friend has one in mist and 2 have plots in the lavender beds... we would all happily share if the system was better. so then the 4 of us would have 1 house instead of 4 houses.. opnes up 3 houses for other players.. and if all those other people who would be willing to share did something similar that could be hundreds of extra plots for other players being made available.

do alot more to help the problem than a dumb lottery ever will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

You're still blaming the victim....

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What victim?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

As much you cry about be stalked on this forum don't make it true buddy.

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Yes, keep on denying something that actually happened. Show us the quality of your character!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

And you're a disgusting person even implying that.

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And yet you are doing something quite similar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dzian

That would nt solve anything... THe reason players dont want to share houses is because they have no right's or control. so you need to allow ALL tenants the power to reset the demo timers and maintain the safety of there homes. the system already limits the number of tenants you can have so its not like its gonna be a mafia of 100 tenants keeping 1 guys house standing.

limitiing it to 1 tenant. does absolutely nothing to fix the problem of people not willing to share houses. when a lot of people have frequently said in all these housing threads they would happily share with friends if they had more power as tenants.. instead of the crap we have now where your teneants can be using the plot every day and pooof up in goes in a cloud of smoke..

i have a medium in shorogane. my friend has one in mist and 2 have plots in the lavender beds... we would all happily share if the system was better. so then the 4 of us would have 1 house instead of 4 houses.. opnes up 3 houses for other players.. and if all those other people who would be willing to share did something similar that could be hundreds of extra plots for other players being made available.

do alot more to help the problem than a dumb lottery ever will

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Enjoy the mass exploiting of it. :D You and your friends may be honest players but there players who are not honest. They will exploit too its fullest and the way you want it done has a massive flaw. I won't explain how to exploit it on the forum as only idiot would do such a thing, I also have no desire to receive a forum vacation of over it. Unlike the Shell FC issue you would not even know or be able to tell who is exploiting the system. Until SE starts acting on shell FC's and stopping house exploiting its best to play safe and nip a problem before it gets started.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

As much you cry about be stalked on this forum don't make it true buddy.



And you're a disgusting person even implying that.

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They're a troll. I highly recommend just putting them on ignore. I have to admit, since doing so my experiences on the OF have improved greatly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I mentioned the 1 tenant idea along a restriction of 1 character per world being allowed to reset as a tenant. Its to avoid the domino effect as its called.

For those who don't get the domino effect. 1 domino knocks over 2, 2 knock over 4 and so on. Now apply that too tenancy, home owner has 3 tenants who each have a personal house with 3 tenants who...you get the idea. Letting tenants reset a timer is fine so long as its tightly restricted as described above..

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Yeah there'd have to be checks in place to make sure someone doesn't end up owning more than one house. I mean, I'm a tenant at my friend's house, but I have my own personal. If SE did this they'd have to put in a check for that kind of thing and let the house just demo if tenant already owns personal housing. It'd have to keep a record of the last time the original owner walked through, and at the 45 day mark do a check on if the tenant has a personal house. If not, house automatically goes to them. If so, house demos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Yeah there'd have to be checks in place to make sure someone doesn't end up owning more than one house. I mean, I'm a tenant at my friend's house, but I have my own personal. If SE did this they'd have to put in a check for that kind of thing and let the house just demo if tenant already owns personal housing. It'd have to keep a record of the last time the original owner walked through, and at the 45 day mark do a check on if the tenant has a personal house. If not, house automatically goes to them. If so, house demos.

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In all honesty the foundation for the exploit is already present in the game. Its just lacks tenants ability to reset the demo timer to bring it full circle. And Mafia was the wrong word to describe it Housing Monopoly fits better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

They're a troll. I highly recommend just putting them on ignore. I have to admit, since doing so my experiences on the OF have improved greatly.

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Kinda find it amusing at their disingenuous arguments but it very close to that now.

You don't play the game and unsub for extended periods of time there is no free ride by letting tenants who actually play the game reset your timer. Sorry I do not support this in the least. I am for keeping a house if you are paying a sub and am for doing away with housing entry.

The ability to share with more people would be nice and would also like to see alts be able to share a house with their main. That is something that is long overdue.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Kinda find it amusing at their disingenuous arguments but it very close to that now.

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Their main goal is to ruin the housing hoarders. It doesn't matter how many innocent, ToS abiding players in the way have to suffer their ill-thought out ideas in the process. The only thing that matters is getting to those house hoarders.

It's their white whale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Enjoy the mass exploiting of it. :D You and your friends may be honest players but there players who are not honest. They will exploit too its fullest and the way you want it done has a massive flaw. I won't explain how to exploit it on the forum as only idiot would do such a thing, I also have no desire to receive a forum vacation of over it. Unlike the Shell FC issue you would not even know or be able to tell who is exploiting the system. Until SE starts acting on shell FC's and stopping house exploiting its best to play safe and nip a problem before it gets started.

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Can't exploit something that doesn't exist. Pointing out how to exploit it in advance of possible implementation is the best way to help keep it from being implemented.

Not that SE would ever implement it. It would be a source of too many problems beyond just illicit transfer of ownership.

Even the poster's own situation demonstrates those problems. Why don't his friends want to share a house? Because they wouldn't be considered the owner. Even with his proposed system, they would still not be the owner. Any fight break out between them and the one player considered the owner could boot them from the house, leaving them without one. Or let's say the poster is the owner and is forced away from the game for two months. He comes back and finds he's no longer tenant because the other 3 made a new friend while he was gone that they wanted to share the house with. Or perhaps whichever player ended up assigned as owner boots the others because now he could have the house all to himself.

Maybe he and his friends would be an exception but that sort of scenario would play out far too often.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Yeah there'd have to be checks in place to make sure someone doesn't end up owning more than one house. I mean, I'm a tenant at my friend's house, but I have my own personal. If SE did this they'd have to put in a check for that kind of thing and let the house just demo if tenant already owns personal housing. It'd have to keep a record of the last time the original owner walked through, and at the 45 day mark do a check on if the tenant has a personal house. If not, house automatically goes to them. If so, house demos.

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And it gets more complicated if the tenant has multiple characters. I have a house on this character. Most of my alts are tenants of houses owned by friends. If one of those houses was pending demo, the game would have to check all my characters on the same world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

They're a troll. I highly recommend just putting them on ignore. I have to admit, since doing so my experiences on the OF have improved greatly.

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Not putting them on ignore only enables the behavior. People are being complicit by continuously responding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Their main goal is to ruin the housing hoarders. It doesn't matter how many innocent, ToS abiding players in the way have to suffer their ill-thought out ideas in the process. The only thing that matters is getting to those house hoarders.

It's their white whale.

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Trying to get the 1% but it's okey to screw 99% of the legit house owners. Good casualties I guess? lol

Edit: Math is obviously not grabbed from any data source but the "house hoarders" is such a big problem anymore as some wants to paint up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Their main goal is to ruin the housing hoarders. It doesn't matter how many innocent, ToS abiding players in the way have to suffer their ill-thought out ideas in the process. The only thing that matters is getting to those house hoarders.

It's their white whale.

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Moby hoarder :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Can't exploit something that doesn't exist. Pointing out how to exploit it in advance of possible implementation is the best way to help keep it from being implemented.

Not that SE would ever implement it. It would be a source of too many problems beyond just illicit transfer of ownership.

Even the poster's own situation demonstrates those problems. Why don't his friends want to share a house? Because they wouldn't be considered the owner. Even with his proposed system, they would still not be the owner. Any fight break out between them and the one player considered the owner could boot them from the house, leaving them without one. Or let's say the poster is the owner and is forced away from the game for two months. He comes back and finds he's no longer tenant because the other 3 made a new friend while he was gone that they wanted to share the house with. Or perhaps whichever player ended up assigned as owner boots the others because now he could have the house all to himself.

Maybe he and his friends would be an exception but that sort of scenario would play out far too often.


And it gets more complicated if the tenant has multiple characters. I have a house on this character. Most of my alts are tenants of houses owned by friends. If one of those houses was pending demo, the game would have to check all my characters on the same world.

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That's why I think we should leave the personal houses alone. It's also why I'm in favor of alternates to the AFK timer on houses as IMO the AFK timer (especially when it gets paused periodically) isn't the best way to handle auto-demolition.

I'm up for the lottery system better than losing sleep trying to get a house that someone can just waltz in buy under your nose without any waiting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMW001

I'm up for the lottery system better than losing sleep trying to get a house that someone can just waltz in buy under your nose without any waiting.

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Let us know if you feel the same way in 6.1 when Ishgard and this system turns on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMW001

I'm up for the lottery system better than losing sleep trying to get a house that someone can just waltz in buy under your nose without any waiting.

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Why are you forcing yourself to lose sleep over something you're okay with never having?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Let us know if you feel the same way in 6.1 when Ishgard and this system turns on.

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That will probably depend on whether he gets lucky in the lottery. People's attitudes have a tendency to change once they're the winner, or when they remain the loser after they convince themselves that a change will turn them into a winner.