just reminding SE they added two new races last expansion ...

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

The reason you can’t equate the two is because the only thing they share is that they are both something that Yoship said they would do and then didn’t deliver on.

However, it’s not as if all of the other classes are getting skill glams and egis are still being ignored. At the end of the day that IS what SMNs are asking for - skill glams. But nobody else gets this, so what you’re asking for is special treatment. You still get weapons and gear like everyone else.

Viera and Hrothgar aren’t asking for special treatment. We are asking to get anything at all, while the other races get showered every patch with cosmetics (whether you personally like them or not) and gear we can’t use. It feels bad to be told you will get something, and then not get it because apparently they don’t have time, only to have everyone else around you get it in spades. For years. Also, Hroth still have to pay to change their hair which is something no other race has to do, and the devs still haven’t fixed that either. So yeah, it’s a bit different than egis. I do think they should still make good on their promise to SMN because they said they’d do it, but it’s not the same situation that viera and hrothgar are in at all.

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But you are asking for special treatment. You are asking the dev team to take resources away from other projects so that you can have more hair styles. You guys keep saying that the dev team should do it because it was promised, I was (badly) trying to make the point that Egis were also promised and never delivered on, so I don't understand why we need new threads everytime a new hair style comes out or why some of you are acting like this problem is so much more important than so many of the other issues in the game right now

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Originally Posted by Velthice

Just give Viera a super desirable hairstyle and never give it to any other race ever."

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I think all we're really been promised is more race specific hairstyles. They have never promised any of the others to my knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

You mean to tell me if Viera numbers didn't dwindle over time, that they wouldn't be questioning why? I don't think so. They would look for reasons to entice people to use the race, as well as looking at reasons for the dwindling population, probably.

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The numbers have already dwindled considerably. What has it gotten us? Nothing from SE, and lots of “well the new races are such a minuscule part of the population they aren’t a priority” from everyone else. And again, why exactly do they need to entice players to play a race if they are still subbed and they buy fantasias when they aren’t happy?

1) Guess you're going to have to rage. Every new hairstyle hasn't worked on the two new races, and we have no reason to expect that these will.

2) "It's been two years!" while highlanders have been asking for eyebrows for eight, so..... do with that information what you will.

::Bathed in tears:: limited being the keypoint and not realizing the models are completely different is a personal oversight.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

The numbers have already dwindled considerably. What has it gotten us? Nothing from SE, and lots of “well the new races are such a minuscule part of the population they aren’t a priority” from everyone else. And again, why exactly do they need to entice players to play a race if they are still subbed and they buy fantasias when they aren’t happy?

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They need to spend an exorbitant amount of time adjusting every gear, and glamour asset for your race and gender each time they incorporate something new. So again, they would at least give the due diligence to it to at least try to understand why people aren't playing that race, and what the issues are behind it. From their point of view, if they can fix that, they'll then entice people towards playing Viera. Why they haven't done so already, or why they haven' upheld their promise, perhaps a technical limitation of how the race is designed, and maybe if they decide to incorporate a male counterpart it'll allow them to solve it in one fell swoop.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

You mean to tell me if Viera numbers didn't dwindle over time, that they wouldn't be questioning why? I don't think so. They would look for reasons to entice people to use the race, as well as looking at reasons for the dwindling population, probably.

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Tbh I doubt they care much for the total population. Overall I think they would be happier if people switch away a curiosity then switch back after the novelty has worn off.

Though back to the topic someone else brought up regarding voting with your wallet that really does not fly in a subscription based game. Since generally people may be displeased about a certain aspect but overall they are happy with the product. Even if numbers do dip if people come back for patches regularly from SE PoV it probably is still a decent ROI in terms of what they put in and what they get out.

In the end I bet most their budget goes towards marketing since in the eyes of SE they have majority of their recurring players by the balls so to speak. We talk a big game but we more often then not come back for story patches since we wre invested. That is why I honestly swear when they add the hairstyles for them it will be via the mogstation. Cause why not?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Do make one big thread about it, not "a few more threads", because that's what the devs have said will get through to them.

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Exactly this. ^

This has been mentioned a handful of times before. If there's like 10 threads over this, they're not really gonna look at them.

If you're serious about this, then go to one if the other older threads already discussing this issue.

Like complain all you want; have at it. Just do so in an already established thread.

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Originally Posted by spf1200

Why are races more important than Egis? In theory Egis effect everyone since everyone can use them while races only effect a smallish part of the community.

Either way this has gotten way off topic

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they are not more important , as someone who loves playing summoner , it's just wrong comparing two completely different things . and as you said the egi glamour affect all of us while this issue affect only two races which is more unfair , everyone get to use these new hairstyles while we don't .. i am not even going to talk about the old mogstation hairstyles that we bought with real money because we knew the limitations yes .. but it's about them being able to keep adding more and more and more new hairstyles every patch and them all not working on these two races when we were promised they will give us something ?
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Originally Posted by Awha

Tbh I doubt they care much for the total population. Overall I think they would be happier if people switch away a curiosity then switch back after the novelty has worn off.

Though back to the topic someone else brought up regarding voting with your wallet that really does not fly in a subscription based game. Since generally people may be displeased about a certain aspect but overall they are happy with the product. Even if numbers do dip if people come back for patches regularly from SE PoV it probably is still a decent ROI in terms of what they put in and what they get out.

In the end I bet most their budget goes towards marketing since in the eyes of SE they have majority of their recurring players by the balls so to speak. We talk a big game but we more often then not come back for story patches since we wre invested. That is why I honestly swear when they add the hairstyles for them it will be via the mogstation. Cause why not?

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I mean voting with wallet expressly on subscription is a poor idea in itself, simply because the number of people that would unsub from this very specific issue, or many issues in the game probably would barely dent their subscription numbers. Not to mention as has typically been the case where they only contradict their own actions and then later sub for the subsequent patch anyway. Admittedly, on this account, I had a fairly bad take, but I do stand by the idea if numbers were to dwindle on a specific race they would look at reasons for that dwindle- and how best to address. Not that I necessarily condone the idea of voting with wallet, versus what happens as a result of dwindling numbers.

People are just hyperbolic is all, so I'm pretty much in agreement here. That being said, I don't think they will add them to the Mogstation as it will leave a bad taste in their mouth; the players'. I want to at least try to believe their inaction or relative silence on the matter has been down to oversights and technical limitations on their part. I want to at least be optimistic and say they'd be looking at adding new hairstyles in 6.0, with perhaps the male counterpart of Viera, or female of Hrothgar. But I'm also probably wrong.

Either way, I'm sympathetic to people with how they've handled these races. But I am none the sympathic to all the threads I see.

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Originally Posted by spf1200

But you are asking for special treatment. You are asking the dev team to take resources away from other projects so that you can have more hair styles. You guys keep saying that the dev team should do it because it was promised, I was (badly) trying to make the point that Egis were also promised and never delivered on, so I don't understand why we need new threads everytime a new hair style comes out or why some of you are acting like this problem is so much more important than so many of the other issues in the game right now

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It’s actually not asking for special treatment if it’s something everyone else is getting but we are not. Which they are, and we would like to be treated with the same importance that they are when it comes to dev resources. Egi-glams ask for special treatment in wanting something extra that nobody else has.

The other issues in the game do not matter when it comes to this because as we have been told many times, they are all handled by different teams. Including your egi glams. So, surprise, they could actually work on both at the same time and neither would affect the other.

I agree you did make your point badly. Wrong place, wrong time, make your own thread about your very different problem.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

It’s actually not asking for special treatment if it’s something everyone else is getting but we are not. Which they are, and we would like to be treated with the same importance that they are when it comes to dev resources. Egi-glams ask for special treatment in wanting something extra that nobody else has.

The other issues in the game do not matter when it comes to this because as we have been told many times, they are all handled by different teams. Including your egi glams. So, surprise, they could actually work on both at the same time and neither would affect the other.

I agree you did make your point badly. Wrong place, wrong time, make your own thread about your very different problem.

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Yep. Wanting equal treatment =/= wanting special treatment.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I mean voting with wallet expressly on subscription is a poor idea in itself, simply because the number of people that would unsub from this very specific issue, or many issues in the game probably would barely dent their subscription numbers. Not to mention as has typically been the case where they only contradict their own actions and then later sub for the subsequent patch anyway. Admittedly, on this account, I had a fairly bad take, but I do stand by the idea if numbers were to dwindle on a specific race they would look at reasons for that dwindle- and how best to address. Not that I necessarily condone the idea of voting with wallet, versus what happens as a result of dwindling numbers.

People are just hyperbolic is all, so I'm pretty much in agreement here. That being said, I don't think they will add them to the Mogstation as it will leave a bad taste in their mouth; the players'. I want to at least try to believe their inaction or relative silence on the matter has been down to oversights and technical limitations on their part. I want to at least be optimistic and say they'd be looking at adding new hairstyles in 6.0, with perhaps the male counterpart of Viera, or female of Hrothgar. But I'm also probably wrong.

Either way, I'm sympathetic to people with how they've handled these races. But I am none the sympathic to all the threads I see.

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I think it would leave a bad taste in the mouth of the FFXIV dev team but SE as a whole would not care if people are willing to pay why not, as weird as it sounds I am do think people would eat it up.

Though I do agree overall.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yep. Wanting equal treatment =/= wanting special treatment.

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I think SE may see viera/hrothgar updates as special treatment, and that's the problem. We were supposed to be happy with the little received.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think SE may see viera/hrothgar updates as special treatment, and that's the problem. We were supposed to be happy with the little received.

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Maybe. Either way I will not be silent. :p I love playing Hrothgar, and even though I would probably never change hairstyles/faces, the options would be nice without having to buy a Fantasia. And there's so little options otherwise. I played a Darkspear Troll in WoW for years, so not being able to wear helmets isn't much of a deal breaker. I rarely wore helmets on my troll. Still, I'd like to have the choice with some things.

Well just to chime in but it was originally said viera would get hairstyles eventually but it's been a while since any word on that and that was after the launch of shb. So either SE gave up on giving at least viera new styles or forgot completely.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCoqui

Well just to chime in but it was originally said viera would get hairstyles eventually but it's been a while since any word on that and that was after the launch of shb. So either SE gave up on giving at least viera new styles or forgot completely.

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Most likely they forgot. Give or take it was due to the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Axxion

Most likely they forgot. Give or take it was due to the next expansion.

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Feel like that's probably it. Remember Egi glamours was mentioned in like 2.10 or so and wasn't added until heavensward. Then parasols themselves were mentioned in a live letter after stormsblood launched and yet wasn't added until 5.20. Hopefully they add them in the next expac or it's not be worth going either race given how limited they are.

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Originally Posted by Axxion

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Your signature is misspelled. Det* Ledsen men var tvungen.

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Originally Posted by lalin

HELLO yoshida ... i hope you still remember you added two freakin races last expansion ..they are called Viera and Hrothgar incase you forgot ...

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AND THESE BETTER BE WORKING ON MY VIERA ..
https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_...3/e30e7a13.png
https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/tekitou_...4/840dc28a.png
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thanks
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also i see i am being called rude which i am not going to argue with , i am sorry yoshida for yelling :p , but at least this way this post got more attention then my polite posts would normally do ;)

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I know this might be something weird to think, but... What if Viera didn't get the most recent hairstyles adapted because of Hrothgar?

Viera has basically a common humanoid head with ears sitting on top of the head... Even though the position is slightly different than a Miqo'te's, it wouldn't clip in many hairstyes, especially these ones, that have the head top pretty flat. Hrothgar on the other hand, is the first race to have have a non humanoid head, which would probably ensue much more work to adapt most of these styles, if not an actual 3D remodelling.

Thus they're not making some of these available for Viera because they can't afford the workload that would be to give it to Hrothgar as well.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Yugiri has had a face/horn combo unavailable to Au Ra players since she was first unmasked back in 2.55, so I wouldn't take that as an indicator of anything.

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Yugiri is literally a named NPC that has reappeared frequently in MSQ since before 2.55. I'm talking unnamed NPCs that dot the landscape to give areas life and flavor that you can't even speak to. Some Hrothgar NPCs of that variety are the ones that *reportedly* have face/hair combos inaccessible to players, which is notably unique to Hrothgar NPCs verses all other available races.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I know this might be something weird to think, but... What if Viera didn't get the most recent hairstyles adapted because of Hrothgar?

Viera has basically a common humanoid head with ears sitting on top of the head... Even though the position is slightly different than a Miqo'te's, it wouldn't clip in many hairstyes, especially these ones, that have the head top pretty flat. Hrothgar on the other hand, is the first race to have have a non humanoid head, which would probably ensue much more work to adapt most of these styles, if not an actual 3D remodelling.

Thus they're not making some of these available for Viera because they can't afford the workload that would be to give it to Hrothgar as well.

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.......But its already modeled for the other races (which is 6 btw)...Saying that SE doesn't want to do this for Viera BECAUSE of Hrothgar is literally comparing apples to oranges...especially, which as you stated, Viera have a similarly shaped head to every other race in the game... Theres another reason behind it minus them wanting to give race specific hairstyles to the other 2 races

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Originally Posted by MorionQ

Yugiri is literally a named NPC that has reappeared frequently in MSQ since before 2.55. I'm talking unnamed NPCs that dot the landscape to give areas life and flavor that you can't even speak to. Some Hrothgar NPCs of that variety are the ones that *reportedly* have face/hair combos inaccessible to players, which is notably unique to Hrothgar NPCs verses all other available races.

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That's no different to Yugiri in the end, and neither is it new. The devs can do all sorts of things with character customisation that players can't get to through the character creator, like adding custom faces or hairstyles.

Hrothgar's problem is that the character design template has been used in an odd way and there's nowhere to put hairstyle choice, because that menu is used for fur pattern, so it got tied to the faces. The devs can probably make NPCs with the "wrong mane for their face" just the same as they can make an Au Ra with the wrong horns. In both cases it's a design element that the player can't choose, but an NPC has it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's no different to Yugiri in the end, and neither is it new. The devs can do all sorts of things with character customisation that players can't get to through the character creator, like adding custom faces or hairstyles.

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Pretty much. I'm still waiting to be able to make a character with a similar appearance to Gaia.

They're not going to give us everything NPCs have tbh, I would assume to be able to keep some degree of separation and individuality between WoLs and NPCs.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I know this might be something weird to think, but... What if Viera didn't get the most recent hairstyles adapted because of Hrothgar?

Viera has basically a common humanoid head with ears sitting on top of the head... Even though the position is slightly different than a Miqo'te's, it wouldn't clip in many hairstyes, especially these ones, that have the head top pretty flat. Hrothgar on the other hand, is the first race to have have a non humanoid head, which would probably ensue much more work to adapt most of these styles, if not an actual 3D remodelling.

Thus they're not making some of these available for Viera because they can't afford the workload that would be to give it to Hrothgar as well.

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i would accept this happily , i would appreciate their honesty instead of promising us things they can't give .
if yoshida say it to our faces no you are not going to get any new hairstyles is 1000X than not saying anything at all .

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I know this might be something weird to think, but... What if Viera didn't get the most recent hairstyles adapted because of Hrothgar?

Viera has basically a common humanoid head with ears sitting on top of the head... Even though the position is slightly different than a Miqo'te's, it wouldn't clip in many hairstyes, especially these ones, that have the head top pretty flat. Hrothgar on the other hand, is the first race to have have a non humanoid head, which would probably ensue much more work to adapt most of these styles, if not an actual 3D remodelling.

Thus they're not making some of these available for Viera because they can't afford the workload that would be to give it to Hrothgar as well.

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This may not be a reason... but what I've heard from people who use mods for the game is that viera hairstyles are actually stored in a different location in the game (forgive me if I'm wording this wrong, I'm not well versed in proper lingo) than other races, occupying the same spot on a character model as the legacy tattoo. Apparently they weren't able to do certain modifications without also removing that tattoo from the viera model. Depending on how many items can be stored into memory for that character customization slot, it could explain as well why the number of hairstyles for viera are limited, as well as why every new hairstyle doesn't immediately become available to them.

Specuating here... but it's also possible that they know immediately that not all hairstyles will work with every set of ears, either with the hair being so large as to make the lop-ears clip down through them, or with the hair being so short cropped that the ears would float off the top of the head.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

This may not be a reason... but what I've heard from people who use mods for the game is that viera hairstyles are actually stored in a different location in the game (forgive me if I'm wording this wrong, I'm not well versed in proper lingo) than other races, occupying the same spot on a character model as the legacy tattoo. Apparently they weren't able to do certain modifications without also removing that tattoo from the viera model. Depending on how many items can be stored into memory for that character customization slot, it could explain as well why the number of hairstyles for viera are limited, as well as why every new hairstyle doesn't immediately become available to them.

Specuating here... but it's also possible that they know immediately that not all hairstyles will work with every set of ears, either with the hair being so large as to make the lop-ears clip down through them, or with the hair being so short cropped that the ears would float off the top of the head.

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Why does SE do things like this? That would actually explain why they would only add a limited number of styles, even if they were going to add any. I've speculated for awhile that they would have to do a full on overhaul to "fix" these races, and it makes even more sense now. They really did these races dirty, I think.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Why does SE do things like this? That would actually explain why they would only add a limited number of styles, even if they were going to add any. I've speculated for awhile that they would have to do a full on overhaul to "fix" these races, and it makes even more sense now. They really did these races dirty, I think.

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With how much strain the system appears to be under it appears to have been "do them dirty" or not at all. Personally I adore my Viera and if my options were never every get a hairstyle or hat, ever or them having just not adding them, I'd a thousand times take them as they are. I've never been happy on a race till they added Viera, course I'd welcome all the hairstyles and why I never really used hats save for one, I'd want them for all that want them, I'm content, I'm just happy to be happy with my character. I'm fine with waiting till if/when they expand on them, weather that's 6.0 or whenever they fabled engine overhaul comes.

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Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

With how much strain the system appears to be under it appears to have been "do them dirty" or not at all. Personally I adore my Viera and if my options were never every get a hairstyle or hat, ever or them having just not adding them, I'd a thousand times take them as they are. I've never been happy on a race till they added Viera, course I'd welcome all the hairstyles and why I never really used hats save for one, I'd want them for all that want them, I'm content, I'm just happy to be happy with my character. I'm fine with waiting till if/when they expand on them, weather that's 6.0 or whenever they fabled engine overhaul comes.

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I think it would have been better off if they had not done them at all, not in this limited state. At least not until their graphical overhaul - which will supposedly make these things easier. Of course SE saw the edition of both female viera/male hrothgar as worth the resources spent creating, and now maintaining them - and it probably was in fantasia sales and marketing for ShB, in the short term. Like I said, they would have to do a complete overhaul to "fix" them; in the long term this is detrimental to the races, and the game, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Personally, I think the bunny race is dumb. Everyone whined when they didn't do it "exactly as they'd hoped" anyway.

At least hrothgar are something different.


I'm of the mind that they should have just ignored all the Viera fans and only done one race. (which would have been hrothgar BTW, not Viera)

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This...but at the same time also not.

Just like they explained how they didn't have the resources to finish both races they could've simply just said "No, we do not plan on adding Viera with Shadowbringers. We only have resources for one race and Hrothgar are already in developement, deal with it"

Now they have a shitstorm on their hands every time they update the game and it does not include the new additions for both unfinished races.




And this is where my viewpoint differs because yes, they did not have the resources to finish both, it makes sense and besides thinking that it was a dumb idea to begin with I see no issue with that.
What I do have an issue with however is that those races are not getting any new additions. Why? Simply because they would've had to add that gear and the hairstyles to the new Hrothgar race anyway in case they decided to not create Viera. They would've still had to make hair and headgear compatible with both male and female Hrothgar, just like they had to make it compatible with male and female Au Ra back in Heavensward.

So when I look at the fact that they now have the exact same situation (making gear and hair compatible with the male and female model of a race) they would've had if they had just added 1 single race I can see why people are annoyed.
If they had only added male & female Hrothgar, as originally planned, would they have just ignored those as well?

And as someone already said, Hrothgar heads might make adapting hair and headgear more difficult since they are quite different to all the other race's heads. But this then begs the question, wouldn't it have been even more work if they made both male and female hrothgar?

People sure like constantly reminding SE of their mistakes.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think it would have been better off if they had not done them at all, not in this limited state.

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There would have been hell raised, for sure, but the smart thing would have been for them to hold the new races launches until later in ShB's lifetime, or longer, until they were fit to push. It just feels like whoever they had on staff for their development hasn't been able to come back for scheduled updates.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

There would have been hell raised, for sure, but the smart thing would have been for them to hold the new races launches until later in ShB's lifetime, or longer, until they were fit to push. It just feels like whoever they had on staff for their development hasn't been able to come back for scheduled updates.

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I don't see how. If they had never done them, they wouldn't have announced them, and the playerbase would have never known otherwise. It would have been another expansion launch, and players requesting new races now and again as usual. In so doing, there would have been more resources freed for other projects.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't see how. If they had never done them, they wouldn't have announced them, and the playerbase would have never known otherwise. It would have been another expansion launch, and players requesting new races now and again as usual. In so doing, there would have been more resources freed for other projects.

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There are a lot of things that can happen from announcement to release. They might have have several issues pop up before SHB launch that they didn't forsee. For all we know they were on track, then fell behind, and rushed the final product for release. Or were given an unreasonable work window to begin with. It is actually the norm for game companies these days to announce projects that are not even near completion, but expected to be released in a tight timeframe.

Devs don't actually have control over that, the publisher does. They say pull the trigger and everyone has to hop to it.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

There are a lot of things that can happen from announcement to release. They might have have several issues pop up before SHB launch that they didn't forsee. For all we know they were on track, then fell behind, and rushed the final product for release. Or were given an unreasonable work window to begin with. It is actually the norm for game companies these days to announce projects that are not even near completion, but expected to be released in a tight timeframe.

Devs don't actually have control over that, the publisher does. They say pull the trigger and everyone has to hop to it.

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I am pretty sure both viera and hrothgar are where they are not due to time constraints, but design decisions. I have speculated before about hrothgars hair in the past, but the heads are quite differently shaped - which is the basis of their problems. In any case both races - really they are treated as one race - were designed to be limited from the start. As I stated in my earlier post, SE saw them as a worthy investment, and I tend to agree - in the short term. Being a limited race, as they are, would lessen the impact on long term support. As they aren't actively designing or fitting everything for them.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

People sure like constantly reminding SE of their mistakes.

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If you dont remind them of their mistakes, how're they suppose to learn from it if people cause an initial stink and then the backlash dies down. They put themselves into this proverbial hole...now they are having trouble getting themselves out

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Originally Posted by Akimori

If you dont remind them of their mistakes, how're they suppose to learn from it if people cause an initial stink and then the backlash dies down. They put themselves into this proverbial hole...now they are having trouble getting themselves out

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I don't know about that. SE barely even acknowledges viera/hrothgar exist. They occasionally put one on display when a headpiece works.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know about that. SE barely even acknowledges viera/hrothgar exist. They occasionally put one on display when a headpiece works.

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You are absolutely right. Ugh...this game makes me truly sad because the gap between the pre-ShB and ShB races continues to get wider jkhgbdnsikfldwsafdsa

I can understand them not fixing old ARR-SB hair/headgear to fit Viera and Hrothgar, but anything released during ShB should have been made to fit the new races.

Not doing that is just lazy.

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Originally Posted by KeyboardFacerollname

I can understand them not fixing old ARR-SB hair/headgear to fit Viera and Hrothgar, but anything released during ShB should have been made to fit the new races.

Not doing that is just lazy.

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Thats what I keep saying and failing to understand. Everyone has these really interesting theories (not sarcasm btw) on why it can't work. I love reading them and it allows me to look at the problem from a different perspective