To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

But lets just act like I am some valiant guy? Cool....)

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I dunno, them valiant guys are nuts.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

We do have FFlogs and also the Japanese Datacenter have public blacklist where they put the bad people on.
We also have DPS meters for a very long time.

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That's scary...
I play on JP datacenter due to location.

Maybe I need to learn Japanese so I can look at the list and explain myself if I accidentally got into the list? x:

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Main reason why SE are so against dps meters.

Public blacklists, huh?

Thank you for making my point for me.

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It doesn't matter if dps meters exist or not. The fact is that players who enjoy challenging team-based activities don't want to group with players who are terrible at that activity and don't care about the team. That's human nature. Ideally the players who don't care about performance and "play for fun" would form their own separate groups so both sides can enjoy the game their own way, but in reality the low performers want to be part of the good teams and get their rewards, so it doesn't always work out that way. Thus the good teams put up barriers. You can't force them to play with the bad guy, SE even know that, let you set a range of restrictions on PF and silent kicks are fully within rules.

SE already have a strong stance against toxic/rude behavior. Prohibiting parsers and hiding performance does nothing except disrupt the ability for players without them to improve, so they end up excluded more. No matter how hard you ban performance tools, good players who put effort into their hobby are not going to want to group with bad ones who don't care. It's just fact.

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Originally Posted by kiagenwa

That's scary...
I play on JP datacenter due to location.

Maybe I need to learn Japanese so I can look at the list and explain myself if I accidentally got into the list? x:

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Chances are if you don't have any issues getting into groups your fine. And if you are on a blacklist and it hasn't hindered your game in anyway then what's it matter? .

If your accountable for your actions and all round respectful of your fellow players the liklihood you'll be on a list is very slim..

You can join a party finder make mistakes and still be fine if your attitude is good..

There's times I've overestimated myself. Done learning parties got right down low almost cleared been confident I understand everything. Then asked to join a farm party said I got the mechanics down. They let me in and I've wiped the group twice. Not fun for anyone.

I Made apologies for wasting people's time and thinking I had the fight down when I clearly didn't.

When you have an attitude like that you will often find players more than willing to help you out. That group for example asked me to stay as it was obvious I knew most of the fight and they'd throw some callouts over discord to help with the rest. And didnt have another wipe for almost 3 hours of successful farming.

But if you have a douche bag attitude that expects to be carried and blames everyone else when things go wrong. Thats when you get yourself kicked and possibly blacklisted.

Why go to WoWhead when I can get my WoW news from the official FFXIV forums.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

That's more of a cultural thing though. Direct confrontation tends to be frowned upon in Japan so instead people there spread word to one another to not play with certain people. To my knowledge this is unique to the JP community in this game.

EDIT: and by that I mean I haven't heard of it happening in EU and NA communities. Not that it only happens in FFXIV.

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It sort of exists and sort of doesn't. There aren't usually blacklists for an entire community, but I and many organizers have used the block/ignore function to make sure certain individuals never came back to pickup night. People on the list would never know, because they can't see your listing. It's way more common than you'd think.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

To those that say FF14 is not a big dog in MMO's

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I'm confused whoever think this isn't a "big dog" MMORPG. Even with the flop of 1.0 it's pretty amasing what ARR has manage to do since 2013. ARR may not been the greatest and SB had it up and downs but SHB is on a level with a AAA game imo. So here's hoping for some great things for EW (can we not use this acronym please) later this fall.

I can read Japanese (more or less).
Can someone link me to this alleged public blacklist?

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

(can we not use this acronym please)

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I prefer END but EW does follow the acronym conventions so. /Shrug.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I prefer END but EW does follow the acronym conventions so. /Shrug.

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EW amuses me, but that doesn't take a whole lot to begin with.

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There's no grit or challenge after a certain point.

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Extreme, Faux Hollows, Unreal.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Extreme, Faux Hollows, Unreal.

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Then what next after those two ? There is nothing else. Extreme can be done during a current expansion if you want or you can wait until the next expansion and do it unscync with no challenge at all. Unreal (someone correct me if im wrong) are just old extreme fights that are scaled to our current level, that sit on limited time. By which i mean that they do not keep them in game when they release the next one.

You can also say ultimate as well. But once you get all the weapons and/or the weapons you care for there is nothing else.

Savage as well. Same thing once you have the BIS what is next? Wait until next expansion do it unsync to do glamour/mount runs.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Extreme, Faux Hollows, Unreal.

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They're literally the same thing.

I can live without Diablo 3 ripoffs like Mythic Plus.

I have seen on the WOW forums time and again:

"If you dont pvp raid or do mythic plus then maybe this game isnt for you"..just let that sink in a moment. Is THAT the kind of mentality we want?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

I have seen on the WOW forums time and again:

"If you dont pvp raid or do mythic plus then maybe this game isnt for you"..just let that sink in a moment. Is THAT the kind of mentality we want?

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It's the kind of mentality the GCBTW already has, except towards people who don't care about the story or are primarily interested in challenging content.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

I have seen on the WOW forums time and again:

"If you dont pvp raid or do mythic plus then maybe this game isnt for you"..just let that sink in a moment. Is THAT the kind of mentality we want?

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I have no intention on playing wow. I do have friends that play it and they do tell me what goes on. For those that want a challenge outside savage, ultimate's, (only speaking for myself) I don't have that option. I want more reason to keep playing, I want more ways to improve what I already know. Or more information that i don't know. I enjoy what FF offers i do. But it needs to be a bit more. They need to have some midcore in it.

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But it needs to be a bit more. They need to have some midcore in it.

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On this, my friend, we agree.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

It's the kind of mentality the GCBTW already has,

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What is this acronym?
GCBTW?

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Originally Posted by ItMe

What is this acronym?
GCBTW?

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Great community btw

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

I have seen on the WOW forums time and again:

"If you dont pvp raid or do mythic plus then maybe this game isnt for you"..just let that sink in a moment. Is THAT the kind of mentality we want?

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As if the "you don't pay my sub" or "you pull you tank it" mentality is any better over here.

People are way more forgiving here for a mistake than there. Just last night, my druid dotted the wrong pack than what we were on (my tabbing mistake) and the tank ripped me a new one after I already said my bad.

That has never happened here to me. Most people say np and move on. Not as bad as it was 3 yrs ago before I left WoW but still regular behavior.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

It's the kind of mentality the GCBTW already has, except towards people who don't care about the story or are primarily interested in challenging content.

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Personally when I have seen people get a bad response to not liking the story it's because that person said they don't enjoy any of the story and then reveal they actively avoided experiencing it since very early game.

I'm fine with people not enjoying the story and avoiding taking notice of it. But I'm not fine with someone saying something like the ShB story sucks when they skipped every cutscene and read no dialogue since ARR. This is like saying season five of a tv series is bad even though you only watched some of season one. If a story didn't grab you in the beginning then say that instead of saying the entire thing is terrible. You can't know it's all terrible if you deliberately avoided experiencing most of it.

I'm also not fine with people who want the story to no longer be a core feature of the game. If the idea of a story having a major role in a game bothers someone to the point that they think it should take a backseat or be removed then they should go play something else. If FFXIV no longer had story as a major feature then the game would become totally different. If someone wants to play a different game then they should go play a different game.

Most people are fine with others enjoying different things about the game as long as they do so without being snarky about it.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

What is this acronym?
GCBTW?

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Great community by the way, commonly used to take the piss on people who praise XIV's community for being oh so great and toxicity-free while being perfect examples of passive aggressive toxicity themselves.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Personally when I have seen people get a bad response to not liking the story it's because that person said they don't enjoy any of the story and then reveal they actively avoided experiencing it since very early game.

I'm fine with people not enjoying the story and avoiding taking notice of it. But I'm not fine with someone saying something like the ShB story sucks when they skipped every cutscene and read no dialogue since ARR. This is like saying season five of a tv series is bad even though you only watched some of season one. If a story didn't grab you in the beginning then say that instead of saying the entire thing is terrible. You can't know it's all terrible if you deliberately avoided experiencing most of it.

I'm also not fine with people who want the story to no longer be a core feature of the game. If the idea of a story having a major role in a game bothers someone to the point that they think it should take a backseat or be removed then they should go play something else. If FFXIV no longer had story as a major feature then the game would become totally different. If someone wants to play a different game then they should go play a different game.

Most people are fine with others enjoying different things about the game as long as they do so without being snarky about it.

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Something I see way too much is when people are asking about story skips for themselves or someone else, you will always have several people saying that if they don't care about the story, they should play another game, or that by allowing their friends to get a story skip, they're gonna ruin their experience.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Something I see way too much is when people are asking about story skips for themselves or someone else, you will always have several people saying that if they don't care about the story, they should play another game

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I disagree with this sort of mindset. For me if a person is having fun even without the story then I'm happy for them. I'm glad they still like the game.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

or that by allowing their friends to get a story skip, they're gonna ruin their experience.

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The problem here is sometimes a person can convince someone the story isn't worth their time without even allowing them to try it for themselves. I know of one person who bought a story skip because their friend wouldn't shut up about what a waste of time the story is. Later down the like they got curious based on the frequent praise it gets, made an alt, and found that they really enjoy the story. They were disappointed that they didn't get to experience a massive chunk of it on their main because their friend blasted the story so much they thought it being bad had to be true.

Sure that person who bought the skip should have just tried it for themselves and then decide based on their experience if they want to skip it or not, but the other person should have allowed them to form their own opinion instead of intensely pushing their opinion onto their friend.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

People are way more forgiving here for a mistake than there. Just last night, my druid dotted the wrong pack than what we were on (my tabbing mistake) and the tank ripped me a new one after I already said my bad.

That has never happened here to me. Most people say np and move on. Not as bad as it was 3 yrs ago before I left WoW but still regular behavior.

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Tbh it largely depends on the content, and the people running it. Has very little to do about the community or the game itself.

People get this perception that FFXIV has a great and lax community. The reality is that is just a byproduct of how the harder content is not tackled by a large portion of the community. Even in the most hardcore of game simple mistakes in easy content are often shrugged off for the most part since it will not change the outcome.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Tbh it largely depends on the content, and the people running it. Has very little to do about the community or the game itself.

People get this perception that FFXIV has a great and lax community. The reality is that is just a byproduct of how the harder content is not tackled by a large portion of the community. Even in the most hardcore of game simple mistakes in easy content are often shrugged off for the most part since it will not change the outcome.

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This is very true. Aside from savage and ultimate, content is so easy in FFXIV, there's no competition ("no" dps meter, no pvp) so nothing to blame really. But join a pf for savage and when things go wrong, you will either see people leaving early, or flame. Not all pfs are like that, but they show that FFXIV is not immune to toxicity given the typical context of failure that you see more frequently in other games.

FF14 is not the top dog. WOW still exist , however WOW is playing too much the idiot with the playerbase. maybe one day

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

FF14 is not the top dog. WOW still exist , however WOW is playing too much the idiot with the playerbase. maybe one day

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Blizzard: "I'm gonna do a thing."

Player base: "We hate it."

Blizzard: "Okay, we'll give you more of this thing and make 0 changes to it. And we'll nerf the already weakest class. Yay!"

Blizzard: -Breaks legacy raiding and makes doing Legion raids harder in Shadowlands than it was in BfA due to poorly handled scaling-
Blizzard: Working as intended.


-edit-

Honestly Blizzard and Ion's "Working as Intended" line is like their catchphrase for anti-player features (or just broken poorly thought out design choices) to the same level as Please Look Forward to It! is Yoshida's catchphrase when he doesnt wanna spoil future features, except Yoshi-P's catchphrase is more endearing and just means we have a ton of stuff to be hyped for....

Not sure if anyone actually thought FFXIV wasn't a "Big Dog" in MMOs. It is the second most played MMO, and with how fast number one is hemorrhaging players maybe number one now. Though I'm not sure what another game's content update has to do with any of this.

Personally I liked it better when FF 14 was not on everyone's lips now you get all the people from wow coming over and trying to change our games to the same undesirable gameplay that made their own game be so unfun

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

Personally I liked it better when FF 14 was not on everyone's lips now you get all the people from wow coming over and trying to change our games to the same undesirable gameplay that made their own game be so unfun

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Thats been happening for a few years now before the big controversy...
And yeah....pretty annoying

FFXIV has been a top MMO since it's relaunch.
Whoever thinks otherwise is delusional or a straight hater of XIV, just to annoy - the very easily annoyed passive aggresive - fanbase.

The industry is diverse though, both WoW and FFXIV players should stop acting as if this was only about them, or the genre itself is only this. There are several other MMORPGs that offer and do stuff very well and when you actually decide to compare every game, is easier to see what each lacks and what each does good.
But that requieres you not to be a fanboy.


In the style of you being annoyed for new people coming here with their "bad ideas".

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

FFXIV has been a top MMO since it's relaunch.
Whoever thinks otherwise is delusional or a straight hater of XIV, just to annoy - the very easily annoyed passive aggresive - fanbase.

The industry is diverse though, both WoW and FFXIV players should stop acting as if this was only about them, or the genre itself is only this. There are several other MMORPGs that offer and do stuff very well and when you actually decide to compare every game, is easier to see what each lacks and what each does good.
But that requieres you not to be a fanboy.


In the style of you being annoyed for new people coming here with their "bad ideas".

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I will only say top as far as being well made sure. But as far as sales or player population not really. There's a video Asmongold watched that showed the top 10 games from 2004 to 2020... and XIV stopped being on that list a while ago. That isn't to say I think XIV is a bad game.. fuck no. I love XIV, hell it's the only game I played nonstop for YEARS. Don't hate me. T.T

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

Personally I liked it better when FF 14 was not on everyone's lips now you get all the people from wow coming over and trying to change our games to the same undesirable gameplay that made their own game be so unfun

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That's been happening with just about everything in general since the internet became a mainstream thing. It's not limited to this game or even games in general. What really turns it into a problem is that too many businesses are prioritizing their likes on social media over providing a superior service or product. As a result the majority of the consumer market ends up suffering because they focus on appeasing a small amount of noisy people being obnoxious on social media and this appeasement is done by making poor business decisions which either holds back improvements or takes things away from the entire market base.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

Personally I liked it better when FF 14 was not on everyone's lips now you get all the people from wow coming over and trying to change our games to the same undesirable gameplay that made their own game be so unfun

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It isn't a new thing honestly. Its been happening for a long time with people trying to kick a tank who doesn't pull fast enough for them or a healer who uses Cure 1 ever. Basically anyone who plays somewhat inefficiently has been the target of harassment since I started playing in Heavensward. The only people who seem to be spared some of it are DPS players who, because people can't use parsers to harass them, generally don't get targeted as often because its a little harder to see when they are being less than 100% efficient. So basically being a tank or a healer in this game is asking to be forced to play around everyone else's playstyle or risk being harassed. New WoW players may be exacerbating the issue and there is a culture shock going on, but the underlying toxicity was always here. We just ignored it because many of the toxic players tried to hide it for a while.

Hopefully if people keep reporting players who are toxic the GMs will be able to keep up and things will go back to being at least somewhat better, even if there will always be bad actors.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Well go tell Blizzard. I keep track of this stuff because why not...

Anyways at the recent Blizzcon they announced their 9.1 patch but the problem is details were super sparse and very up in the air so obviously people got concerned about a MASSIVE content drought that lined up this patch in August or September for some mysterious reason... FF14 players know why.

Now MAGICALLY out of thin air they announce their PTR for patch 9.1 exactly 2 weeks from today. Can anyone name something else that comes out exactly 2 weeks from today?

Square Enix keep doing exactly what you are doing and make the game about content and not endless systems. Blizzard has consistently tried to line up patch cycles to drown out FF14 news because they are scared and the feedback on the unsub surveys must be brutal.

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They got what they deserved.