Death unto Dawn page up

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/shado...ers/patch_5_5/

It's updated again!

As towers rise and darkness falls, Eorzea's players take the stage- blades poised to meet the Final Days.

PATCH 5.5

Main Scenario Quests

Death Unto Dawn - Part 1
The Scions have finally succeeded in discovering a cure for tempering, which should prove instrumental in allowing the Eorzean Alliance and the land's beast tribes to settle their differences. Prospects of peace may soon fall to ruin, however, as Fandaniel and the Telophoroi scheme to recreate the Final Days, and ominous towers rise in all corners of the realm. With the servants of chaos amassing at every turn, will the Scions uncover their plot before it is too late?

Two pictures with this one. While I don't notice anything too obvious in either of them, the references to peace with the beast tribes furthers the theory about where the patch will take place.

I do want to ask, have we seen the gryphon rampant as a political icon before? Can we get a theory about where this meeting is happening?

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The meeting is in Ala Mhigo. That is Ala Mhigo's flag. Hien and Y'shtola are absent. The second picture is just confirmation that we will find Estinien in 5.5.

It sounds like we might be coming to the aid of the Amal'jaa. Though our last dungeon-based excursion into beast tribe territory was... less than friendly, lol. I wonder if we'll see Lunar Ifrit for this dungeon, or if they're saving that stuff for Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yeah but we at least have their memory crystals and some of the other sundered ascians to go off of (namely mitron and loghrif whose goals were put forward). Plus tbh i’d rather they not just try and throw remaining ascian after ascian at us it’d seem pretty rushed and unbelievable that way.

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I'm afraid that 6.0 raid series Pandaemonium will be this. Granted does reference another final fantasy, but its also the name of the base in hell where fallen angels gather to plot revenge after they've been kicked out heaven in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

In other words what I'm saying is that raid series could just be the remaining ascians trying a plan-b if Zodiark falls at the end of 6.0.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

It sounds like we might be coming to the aid of the Amal'jaa. Though our last dungeon-based excursion into beast tribe territory was... less than friendly, lol. I wonder if we'll see Lunar Ifrit for this dungeon, or if they're saving that stuff for Endwalker.

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They mentioned that the Immortal Flames sent out scouts because there were reports of Amal'jaa going missing in Southern Thanalan...which I'd assume is probably a result of their tower-tempered brethren kidnapping them.

I do hope we'll actually be helping the still sane Amal'jaa beat back the tempered raiding their settlement instead of just forcing our way through so we can get to the tower.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

It sounds like we might be coming to the aid of the Amal'jaa. Though our last dungeon-based excursion into beast tribe territory was... less than friendly, lol. I wonder if we'll see Lunar Ifrit for this dungeon, or if they're saving that stuff for Endwalker.

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I had thought about this but like, after unreal trials, and eden i’m kind of over those primals now xD. Can we have something new.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I'm afraid that 6.0 raid series Pandaemonium will be this. Granted does reference another final fantasy, but its also the name of the base in hell where fallen angels gather to plot revenge after they've been kicked out heaven in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

In other words what I'm saying is that raid series could just be the remaining ascians trying a plan-b if Zodiark falls at the end of 6.0.

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Yeah i had read up on this and it made me worry. I have some hope they wouldn’t do that but i guess we’ll see. My original thought was that it would be based around Laha and his memories and maybe in an ff2 type way he’d be split between two beings. I’m expecting some kind of twist with him anyhow considering they showed him right off the bat.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I had thought about this but like, after unreal trials, and eden i’m kind of over those primals now xD. Can we have something new.

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Right?

At this rate we'll be fighting 'Solar Bahamut' in 7.0...

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I don’t really see the sundered ascians siding with Fandaniel. As Eden showed us while they are tempered they still have their own goals and everything. Fandaniel’s whole goal kind of seems to go against everything they're for with him wanting to destroy the worlds. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them go rogue away from him seeing as his memory crystal was fractured but the other ones were all fine, he might just raise up black masks idk.There's also the possibility considering the terms potential ancient origins, it could be a group taking after Venat's group from before the Sundering but thats purely speculation. :p

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The main factor we saw motivating Mitron and Loghrif was restoration of their memories. Granted, Mitron could not do so as effectively without a memory crystal, so he resorted to other methods, but this, as you mention, is the one thing that distinguishes Fandaniel from the rest - his crystal is fragmented and the memory within it, weak. For those who missed it, that is alluded to when you discovered the crystals in Amaurot, e.g. here. I am hoping we see at least some of the Overlords pull away from Fandaniel, as his goal is anathema to theirs and it is the degree to which their memories were successfully restored which commits them to their goal, rather than tempering. Tempering may or may not intensify those motives but it's not been invoked as the main reason for them and I don't even see why it should be at this point; we have too few details on how Hydaelyn and Zodiark effect it to say. So I expect and hope it will cleave along the lines of how strongly the memory was restored, or not.

Regarding "Telophoroi", it is, in the context of the setting, very likely to be a word relating to the ancient world - oddly enough, seeing as how Fandaniel holds the ancients in contempt. So, it may itself be a term that refers to a group that existed within the ancient world, one which may well have tried to facilitate the end of the world back then. "Servants of chaos" in this context could refer to any number of things, be it tempered minions, monstrosities, perhaps some black masked Ascians, etc. Bearing in mind Fandaniel is also moving things within Garlemald, or what remains of it anyway. It's worth noting, for example, the French version refers to the Telophoroi as a (very) small group. How small is anyone's guess. Meanwhile, the German refers (separately to the term) to raising up a huge army, so no real differences there, and it probably corresponds to the "servants of chaos" part. I took Telophoroi as a break away from the Ascians, who labour to restore the ancient world and reassemble the Source. While I don't doubt they may put some other Overlords in there, I do hope it won't be all of them, and that at least some of them won't be written to be entirely antagonistic.

As for Pandaemonium, given the emphasis on Lahabrea and the Mateus symbol, as well as the tie in with II (possibly IX), I expect that'll be its focal point. It's not impossible that they could involve other ones there, but given that Lahabrea didn't get as much of a story as Emet or Elidibus, I suspect that this is what this will all be about.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Yeah i had read up on this and it made me worry. I have some hope they wouldn’t do that but i guess we’ll see. My original thought was that it would be based around Laha and his memories and maybe in an ff2 type way he’d be split between two beings. I’m expecting some kind of twist with him anyhow considering they showed him right off the bat.

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Or Lahabrea's connection is he made place and told the others to collect there if Zodiark is ultimately defeated. In other words it's Lahabreas's Plan B and machinations, but other Ascians helming them.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Right?

At this rate we'll be fighting 'Solar Bahamut' in 7.0...

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I mean Lunar Bahamut is pulled straight from FF4A which is pretty clearly a strong inspiration for Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by GoldStarz

I mean Lunar Bahamut is pulled straight from FF4A which is pretty clearly a strong inspiration for Endwalker.

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I think his point is they’re constantly rehashing primals over and over lol. Bahamut has been in this expansion every patch except 5.1

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think his point is they’re constantly rehashing primals over and over lol. Bahamut has been in this expansion every patch except 5.1

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I can agree the timing isn't great if they're doing all the Lunar Eidolons immediately after Eden and the new Unreal Trials, but outside of Shiva and the Titan re-fight in HW I can't really think of many times the ARR primals came back to major prominence. Also, where was Bahamut in the past 5.X patches because he wasn't in the Eden raids, so I can't think of any time he showed up.

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Originally Posted by GoldStarz

I can agree the timing isn't great if they're doing all the Lunar Eidolons immediately after Eden and the new Unreal Trials, but outside of Shiva and the Titan re-fight in HW I can't really think of many times the ARR primals came back to major prominence. Also, where was Bahamut in the past 5.X patches because he wasn't in the Eden raids, so I can't think of any time he showed up.

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5.25 bozja quest, 5.3 in seat of sacrifice, and now 5.4 as lunar bahamut. As for the arr primals, i know Garuda is the one thats shown up the most. Like 5 or 6 times. Personally im tired of the arr primals and i'd like for us to get new original things. Not just constant callbacks. This expansion has just felt like rehash all the old content expansion between bozja requiring all the old alli raids and old fate zones, unreal trials and the eden primals.

Personally I am getting rather tired of the Primals. I liked the Eden concept, because some of those were really dated and needed a new lick of paint, but either focus on the other ones next time, like the ARR guys, or better yet, do something else. No more ARR Primals.

Still a bit sad they didn't find a way to shove Odin in there somewhere, since he's one of the few Primals from that era of whom we've seen very little.

As one of the quests will take us to the origin of Ifrit, maybe that would make thematically a more likely guess as the next unreal.

... I'd still rather see odin though.

Odin still has some mystery surrounding him, although the Eureka and Bozja quests does shed some light on the possible origin of Zantetsuken

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

As one of the quests will take us to the origin of Ifrit, maybe that would make thematically a more likely guess as the next unreal.

... I'd still rather see odin though.

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I still think Ifrit's origins will probably end up being a Salamander auspice.

As far as the "lunar" primals go, I feel like they could be considered the final send-off for the established primals in the story as now that a cure for tempering exists, the prospect of preventing re-summonings entirely is realistic as the tempered are generally the ones who've been perpetuating their existence. That said, I don't think I'd mind having Lunar Ifrit as the final boss for Pagl'than.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I still think Ifrit's origins will probably end up being a Salamander auspice.

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One of the short stories they released for Shadowbringers suggests that Ifrit may have actually originated as a creation of the Ancients and likely some of the other primals as well, considering that there's a Bismark on both the Source and the First which implies whatever being originally bore the name may have existed pre-Sundering.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I still think Ifrit's origins will probably end up being a Salamander auspice.

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One of the Tales from the Shadows short stories (Ere Our Curtain Falls) suggests that Ifrit's origins tie back to Ifrita, a concept created by Lahabrea pre-Sundering that Azem used to collect and dissipate gathering fire aether so as to prevent a volcanic eruption.

As the auspices trace their origins back to the Chinese Zodiac, a salamander auspice seems... unlikely. These all come up during Heavensturn, but for those who don't know the Chinese Zodiac signs are:

• Rat
• Ox
• Tiger
• Rabbit
• Dragon
• Snake
• Horse
• Sheep
• Monkey
• Rooster
• Dog
• Pig

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

As far as the "lunar" primals go, I feel like they could be considered the final send-off for the established primals in the story as now that a cure for tempering exists, the prospect of preventing re-summonings entirely is realistic as the tempered are generally the ones who've been perpetuating their existence. That said, I don't think I'd mind having Lunar Ifrit as the final boss for Pagl'than.

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Wasn’t that already unreal trials though? How many more times do we need to see the same primals over and over. It’s stale now and there’s a lot of other elemental “summons” they could use from previous ff games if they so desire.

I just hope they have more sense than to rehash them wholesale in Pandaemonium, or indeed, through Lunar variants.

I would not be surprised if virtually all of the Primals have ancient origins, as some of them (e.g. Ramuh, Sephirot) - perhaps drawing on the Lifestream/Underworld/Aetherial Sea - seem to have a fairly good understanding of the origin of the world. Their driving imperative/concept may be what allows for it or not, e.g. Ramuh being wise. Something else they've not touched on in much depth is the Twelve, so I do wonder if the alliance or normal raids will pick up on that, as that's the other mystery besides Lake Silvertear, and we've now got enough hints to suggest they tie to the Convocation in concept at least.

With Pandaemonium, the idea may be that Lahabrea somehow returns, having been captive in Nidhogg's Eyes, his aether etc. recharged, but maybe a bit worse for wear mentally, especially after watching the Final Days play out again, maybe from his position in the Aetherial Sea. Really hope they're not baiting with his sigil and mask, but as long as they give him a good boss fight as one of the final bosses of the tiers, I'll be happy, as well as a good story tying to his ancient persona to conclude his arc, maybe going into the work he did to devise the concept for Zodiark. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets the idea of setting his re-created menagerie on the MC once he realises who they are for funzies, and at the end we get a glimpse of original Lahabrea. I could sort of see that as the context for some Overlords joining him, as the last hope to see through their plans (really, it hinges on what happens with Zodiark/Hydaelyn), but again, I'd like at least one of them which isn't antagonistic for a change now that the MC has adopted the remembrance duty from Emet/Elidibus.

New arrangement of Thunderer too, plz.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I just hope they have more sense than to rehash them wholesale in Pandaemonium, or indeed, through Lunar variants.

I would not be surprised if virtually all of the Primals have ancient origins, as some of them (e.g. Ramuh, Sephirot) - perhaps drawing on the Lifestream/Underworld/Aetherial Sea - seem to have a fairly good understanding of the origin of the world. Their driving imperative/concept may be what allows for it or not, e.g. Ramuh being wise. Something else they've not touched on in much depth is the Twelve, so I do wonder if the alliance or normal raids will pick up on that, as that's the other mystery besides Lake Silvertear, and we've now got enough hints to suggest they tie to the Convocation in concept at least.

With Pandaemonium, the idea may be that Lahabrea somehow returns, having been captive in Nidhogg's Eyes, his aether etc. recharged, but maybe a bit worse for wear mentally, especially after watching the Final Days play out again, maybe from his position in the Aetherial Sea. Really hope they're not baiting with his sigil and mask, but as long as they give him a good boss fight as one of the final bosses of the tiers, I'll be happy, as well as a good story tying to his ancient persona to conclude his arc, maybe going into the work he did to devise the concept for Zodiark. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets the idea of setting his re-created menagerie on the MC once he realises who they are for funzies, and at the end we get a glimpse of original Lahabrea. I could sort of see that as the context for some Overlords joining him, as the last hope to see through their plans (really, it hinges on what happens with Zodiark/Hydaelyn), but again, I'd like at least one of them which isn't antagonistic for a change now that the MC has adopted the remembrance duty from Emet/Elidibus.

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I second this. Really hope we get a friendly ascian or two maybe as guest trust members similar to lyna and graha in ShB. We’ve had the “ascians are bad” shtick already so i really hope they keep that idea away from both the main story and Pandaemonium. It's old.

Yes, and there's room to move beyond that a bit. Some of the Overlords remaining antagonistic? Fine, but I'd like at least one that isn't.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

One of the short stories they released for Shadowbringers suggests that Ifrit may have actually originated as a creation of the Ancients and likely some of the other primals as well, considering that there's a Bismark on both the Source and the First which implies whatever being originally bore the name may have existed pre-Sundering.

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I meant the Amalj'aa version of Ifrit. Ifrita was an original concept, but their version of Ifrit is born of their own conceived notions on how Ifrit looked. Meaning either their ancestors saw a firey lizard type transformed auspice, or the idea was planted into their heads.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

snip

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A Sand Fox auspice exists as a part of the Unreal trials and the Faux Hollows minigame.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

One of the Tales from the Shadows short stories (Ere Our Curtain Falls) suggests that Ifrit's origins tie back to Ifrita, a concept created by Lahabrea pre-Sundering that Azem used to collect and dissipate gathering fire aether so as to prevent a volcanic eruption.

As the auspices trace their origins back to the Chinese Zodiac, a salamander auspice seems... unlikely. These all come up during Heavensturn, but for those who don't know the Chinese Zodiac signs are:

• Rat
• Ox
• Tiger
• Rabbit
• Dragon
• Snake
• Horse
• Sheep
• Monkey
• Rooster
• Dog
• Pig

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There's a Fat Cat that's an auspice (Senri). A weasel/ferret (Kamaitachi). A red panda (Nue). A fox(Kudagitsune). A Tanuki. An Odder Otter. These don't correspond in any way to the Chinese Zodiac. It's not something strictly adhered to at all.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

There's a Fat Cat that's an auspice (Senri). A weasel/ferret (Kamaitachi). A red panda (Nue). A fox(Kudagitsune). A Tanuki. An Odder Otter. These don't correspond in any way to the Chinese Zodiac. It's not something strictly adhered to at all.

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Yeah, the only requirement to becoming an auspice is living long enough ("decades beyond" their usual lifespans) to become self-aware and obtain magic powers.

It's certainly possible for a group of twelve auspices to consciously pattern themselves after the animals of the Far Eastern Zodiac (which we know exists in Hydaelyn, with the Heavensturn events), but that's a different matter entirely.

The concept of Ifrit was likely something that people kept vague memories of post-Sundering (Perhaps through tales of its battle with Azem) which eventually led to it being venerated as a god not unlike the individual who first bested it.

The Amal'jaa may have simply chosen to project some of their own qualities onto it, akin to how the Ixal reimagined Garuda as a winged goddess when the Fractal Continuum HM suggests she was originally just a commander in the Allagan army who held sway over their ancestors.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The concept of Ifrit was likely something that people kept vague memories of post-Sundering (Perhaps through tales of its battle with Azem) which eventually led to it being venerated as a god not unlike the individual who first bested it.

The Amal'jaa may have simply chosen to project some of their own qualities onto it, akin to how the Ixal reimagined Garuda as a winged goddess when the Fractal Continuum HM suggests she was originally just a commander in the Allagan army who held sway over their ancestors.

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Except the Brotherhood of Ash, the sole remaining untempered clan of amal'jaa have not been shown or stated to worship anything (only being interested in metalworking and fighting their tempered brethern), and regard Ifrit as an abomination undeserving of worship, which, if they are representative of amalj'aa society before Ifrit was first summoned, it suggests that it was entirelly the 'Paragon' (aka, an Ascian) that was behind how the Primal took form when he first taught the amal'jaa how to summon back before the Calamity (and, given what we now know about Ifrita, it's pretty clear now who the identity of said Paragon was.).

Of course it doesn't prove conclusively that is the case, but it presents a pretty compelling case that it is so.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Except the Brotherhood of Ash, the sole remaining untempered clan of amal'jaa have not been shown or stated to worship anything (only being interested in metalworking and fighting their tempered brethern), and regard Ifrit as an abomination undeserving of worship, which, if they are representative of amalj'aa society before Ifrit was first summoned, it suggests that it was entirelly the 'Paragon' (aka, an Ascian) that was behind how the Primal took form when he first taught the amal'jaa how to summon back before the Calamity (and, given what we now know about Ifrita, it's pretty clear now who the identity of said Paragon was.).

Of course it doesn't prove conclusively that is the case, but it presents a pretty compelling case that it is so.

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I can't remember the exact wording for the Brotherhood of Ash's beliefs. Did they say that any version of Ifrit was a false abomination, or did they say that this version of Ifrit currently being worshipped by their tempered (and non-tempered but really impressionable) fellows was an abomination?

Mainly I'm thinking about the Vundu, who still consider Bismarck their god, but (at least after some convincing from the WoL and co) see the Bismarck currently flying around eating islands as a false version that should be defeated. Same for the Ananta and Sri Lakshmi.

Do it please.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I can't remember the exact wording for the Brotherhood of Ash's beliefs. Did they say that any version of Ifrit was a false abomination, or did they say that this version of Ifrit currently being worshipped by their tempered (and non-tempered but really impressionable) fellows was an abomination?

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Quoting the quest NPC Hamujj Gah

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We, the Amalj'aa, were once simple nomads who roamed the vast plains of Paglth'an. If any sought to impede our path, we relished the challenge to our skill at arms.

For as long as our people have existed, it has been the tradition for aging warriors to make the pilgrimage to the holy land of Zanr'ak, and there confront the specter of death. It is an honor to cast one's time-tempered soul into the sacred flames, and return one's body to ash.

But these craven whelps of Zahar'ak quaver before death's inevitability─they seek not to fortify their spirits, instead groveling before a deity for the strength they do not deserve.

I have not the words to express my disgust for the manner of this groveling, this...subjugation of the meek by contemptuous weaklings. The path to true greatness lies only in conquering those greater than oneself, and in the doing attaining mastery over one's own failings.

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Perhaps digging back into 1.0 would shed more light on the subject.

As far as 2.0 onwards goes, I think Titan is the only one out of the ARR primals who's specifically mentioned as being "false" and not a proper representation of the deity the kobolds revere.

Another site update, with more pictures. It looks like there'll be another finale for the Ishgardian Restoration questline. Color me surprised.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Another site update, with more pictures. It looks like there'll be another finale for the Ishgardian Restoration questline. Color me surprised.

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I believe they mentioned this in the previous live letter. I think this will be associated with a reoccurring fate too.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I believe they mentioned this in the previous live letter. I think this will be associated with a reoccurring fate too.

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It looks like we may be running around the Firmament carrying giant plush Moogles, which is adorable and slightly terrifying.

Diamond Weapon looks a fair bit different from the previous fights already with the arena being split into two halves with it between them and seemingly utilizing a side-swapping mechanic with jump pads.

The fact that it's described as threatening to destroy Werlyt makes me further question just who's going to be piloting the thing, though it's obvious that the scheme of Alphonse and company backfired horribly regardless.

Given that april fools is starting to be rolled out up to a week in advance, I'm taking everything updated with a grain of salt.

Now, even having said that...

Looks mostly like it just confirms cloud deck as the diamond weapon trial name. Course, this means that lunar bahamut is NOT going to be our trial. Unless they pull a "secret trial" like memoria ex.

I'm starting to think that towers are just going to hang over us (the way a brick don't) until october. This isn't nearly enough content, or time, to do things.

They DID mention in the Live Letter that Firmament Residents will be throwing Festivals to celebrate its completion. This is likely just the implementation of said festivals (Or, I think they called them... Fêtes... as in... the French word for Feast, which is a homonym of FATEs).

I'm intrigued by it, plus, it helps keep Restoration "current"... or at the very least alive, past crafter relics.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I'm starting to think that towers are just going to hang over us (the way a brick don't) until october. This isn't nearly enough content, or time, to do things.

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I think the towers will be dealt with before 6.0 releases. We're not going to do 6 dungeons taking each one down. I'm guessing that 5.5 will start with the Alliance leaders deciding to coordinate a simultaneous assault on all of the towers (like Operation Archon in ARR with the simultaneous assault on all Garlean castrums in Eorzea). The 5.5 dungeon will just be us going through the Amal'Jaa village and then taking down the one in Thanalan, while other special forces, heroes, and adventurers take down the other towers.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

I think the towers will be dealt with before 6.0 releases. We're not going to do 6 dungeons taking each one down. I'm guessing that 5.5 will start with the Alliance leaders deciding to coordinate a simultaneous assault on all of the towers (like Operation Archon in ARR with the simultaneous assault on all Garlean castrums in Eorzea). The 5.5 dungeon will just be us going through the Amal'Jaa village and then taking down the one in Thanalan, while other special forces, heroes, and adventurers take down the other towers.

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Unlikely. As it was just shown at the end of 5.4, those towers actually Temper people. They'd need actual Echo users to deal with them, and I have a feeling those things will be creating very powerful monsters. If anything, I expect the Eorzean Alliance (along with all other world powers) to be stuck on the defensive, destroying any monsters that pop up while we're off saving the world.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Given that april fools is starting to be rolled out up to a week in advance, I'm taking everything updated with a grain of salt.

Now, even having said that...

Looks mostly like it just confirms cloud deck as the diamond weapon trial name. Course, this means that lunar bahamut is NOT going to be our trial. Unless they pull a "secret trial" like memoria ex.

I'm starting to think that towers are just going to hang over us (the way a brick don't) until october. This isn't nearly enough content, or time, to do things.

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Lunar bahamut will most likely be the dungeon final boss