Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

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Originally Posted by Gula

Have you heard of paid overtime?

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Worth of title "Shill of the year", keep going pal.
Finished product means everything work as it suppose to be, look at Aura, if they fixing it by overworking, that means they had issues in ther sheldue.

Well it is a pretty much indisputable fact that the amount of gameplay time and content introduced in Shb patches, in comparison to both SB and HW patches (not to mention ARR, but the white knights will just go thats invalid because its not technically an expansion), has been significantly reduced. The number of new areas and assets is smaller (less dungeons, not even a single trash pull in raids or any area to traverse compared to alexander, no new zones like eureka and so on), the Relic weapons so far lag FAR behind their counterparts.
Now, there are obviously players who like this, for one reason or another. They are happy to see gameplay time reduced, mostly (from these forums) because it makes rewards achievable quicker and with less effort. So we can debate whether smaller patches and less gameplay is your personal preference - but we cannot debate whether content patches are smaller all around, because they provably are.

The biggest waste is really Ruby Ex. The only extreme trial of 5.2 already devalued by watching cutscenes and walking through a tunnel zone. There is basically no midcore content in the game right now, its almost all casual, and 4 (5 if you count ultimate) fights for more experienced/skilled groups. Thats it. So objectively, this expansion does not offer anywhere near as much gameplay content as its predecessors. Its just a matter of whether you like that, or not.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

There is basically no midcore content in the game right now, its almost all casual, and 4 (5 if you count ultimate) fights for more experienced/skilled groups.

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Yet in the other thread people are complaining that the augmented AF gear is locked on an EX trial because it's "not for casuals."

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Yet in the other thread people are complaining that the augmented AF gear is locked on an EX trial because it's "not for casuals."

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Thats just people scared of the label "extreme". This current "ex trial" is easier than some of the normalmode raid bosses we have seen.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Have you heard of paid overtime?

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I sure have, but Yoshi P specifically said they did it "in their own time", which definitely isn't something you call paid overtime. The entire point of mentioning it, was that said devs just did it basically out of the "goodness of their hearts".

I am curious about people complaining about lack of content. I will preface by agreeing that cutting the expert dungeons down per patch is a reduction and one I wish they hadn't done. Though it's probably because of the Trust system which I will also say I like having for when I want to run one.

However, we now have 5 extreme fights in ShB and we're only in the 5.2 patch cycle. By comparison we had a total of 7 in HW for the entire expansion. So I expect at least 1-2 more extreme fights before ShB is all done (maybe 3 more? Idk).

We have our 8-man raid and our 8-main savage raid series in ShB.

We have our 24-man raid series in ShB.

We have an Ultimate in ShB (I think I'm right there - or did Alexander come out in SB? For the life of me now I'm drawing a blank on that).

Has it been stated there won't be a Eureka type of place for relic? There may have been that statement and I may have missed it. I know there will be more to do to grind out relic but what it will be I have no idea of course. Would it have been good to have more of a grind right now? Probably. Like I said earlier I was expecting more of a grind than we got - not one of the big grinds, but yea a bit more than what we had so I'll give content ppl that. Though if you want to start to get the AF you have to grind out the new extreme trial. Maybe that was SE's grind.

Sounds like no Deep Dungeon for this expac which yea is less content there and I'm disappointed about it. I enjoyed the others.

As for midcore content - there really has never been any midcore content - which has always been a gripe of much of the player base. It isn't just ShB, it's always been like that. Not saying that like it's an okay thing, but this isn't new to this expac. It's either casual or it's been savage and that was it (and then later an Ultimate thrown in per expac).

We also have new content that while it isn't battle content, it is new content (ie. Ocean Fishing, Ishgard Restoration). And yes I know that non-DoH/DoL players don't like to count that, but it is new content and new content that a lot of people have been enjoying.

Could we use more content? Yes (again I wish there was another Deep Dungeon this expac and sad there isn't).

This patch was a big DoH/DoL content patch. SE told us it was going to be. I for one was happy for it. We've never had a big patch with so much done for DoH/DoL. And while many people like to downplay that aspect of the game because it's "not important or real game play" for a lack of better phrasing, it is a core part of the game from all the way back in 1.0 days (you could literally start as a DoH or DoL class in 1.0 and never have to touch a battle class). And while that was revamped for the relaunch of the game, DoH & DoL is still a big part of the game. And personally, I'm glad for that too. I love crafting and gathering. I spend a lot of time doing it. I also do a lot of battle content. I appreciate both.

"We also have new content that while it isn\\\\'t battle content, it is new content (ie. Ocean Fishing, Ishgard Restoration). And yes I know that non-DoH/DoL players don\\\\'t like to count that, but it is new content and new content that a lot of people have been enjoying.

Could we use more content? Yes (again I wish there was another Deep Dungeon this expac and sad there isn\\\\'t).

This patch was a big DoH/DoL content patch. SE told us it was going to be. I for one was happy for it. We\\\\'ve never had a big patch with so much done for DoH/DoL. And while many people like to downplay that aspect of the game because it\\\\'s "not important or real game play" for a lack of better phrasing, it is a core part of the game from all the way back in 1.0 days (you could literally start as a DoH or DoL class in 1.0 and never have to touch a battle class). And while that was revamped for the relaunch of the game, DoH & DoL is still a big part of the game. And personally, I\\\\'m glad for that too. I love crafting and gathering. I spend a lot of time doing it. I also do a lot of battle content. I appreciate both."

Heresy of the finest order! That\\\\'s not content!.

But yes Alexander was HW you are correct. But yeah a lotta people are literally comparing the whole oh hw and sb patches included... to x.x5 update... Like the 5 represents SMALL content updates. It\\\\'s a half step, yet people I guess feel it means loads of new content. Like once shb reaches 5.55, then compare to only 4.55. As that was prior expansion so most apt to compare.

Had to shorten the text cause character limits.

This site don't work well on mobile xD

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

This site don't work well on mobile xD

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Scroll to bottom and click use desktop version

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Scroll to bottom and click use desktop version

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Some of the best advice here. Also, change the number of posts shown per page to the max number. :3

I think honestly the biggest issue the game faces is that lots of the content released is dead within months and they give no incentive to go back to most of it, and for a person like me who has been here since alpha 1.0 it just feels lacking in giving something to accomplish, i just want some kind of progression, some reason to go back to do old content with new folks, in where i get something in return that i might need at my level for doing it.

As for the viera/hrothgar thing i think we're just beating a dead horse at this point because while gender locks are bad and such they kinda put themselves in an unfixable corner by not working on letting have the normal hairstyles first before the ones they gave them, as well as the fantasia to change hrothgar hair fiascle.

As for dungeons, 1 dungeon is fine in my opinion if instead of doing 2 expert dungeons in the rotation, put all the expansions dungeons into rotation giving the tomestones only after being 80, so at least we have a variety of dungeons that could be pulled from.

As for the old primal weapons and such, i think its more just them not wanting to go back and work on old content as he has said over and over, but i feel like at the very least they should make more different looking variations on the astrologian, gunbreaker and dancer weapons for example, cause right now a lot of them are too similar to where it just feels like we have small selections.

As for relics, lots of people complained about the first way of making a relic, then lots complained about the 2nd relic, then lots complained about eureka that it took too long and too much work, now people complain it's too easy, they are never gonna win on this topic because no one knows what they actually want, instead i would rather they worry less about the obtaining method and more on making them unique, making all of the previous and new relics upgradable in later expansions, so it's worth actually doing them to have them be useful later on for the hard work. Not to mention that locking the dyable af gear behind an ex trial is a bad idea because at the point of them adding it, you can already craft 480 slot it well and will be upgraded to 490 later, as well as get the tome gear or savage gear.

As for deep dungeon, as much as its fun content, we aren't even that far into the patch cycle so who knows what will come down the line and that goes for hildibrand too.

As for the pvp stuff, i feel like this expansion hasn't really shown too much love for it, could be that they felt they gave it a lot last expansion, or could be that its coming later on but either way, we just gotta wait.

Overall just enjoy the game and what we got at the moment, especially with the pandemic and quaratines happening, because at the end of the day all of this could stop at any moment, are we getting what we want? no not exactly but there are lots of things that we didn't know we wanted and were added by the team, and it always seems like people overlook that stuff and aren't appreciative of the things we are getting. Don't judge expansions based on what we have gotten basically a few patches in, wait til it's over and then judge whether it sucked or not.

Anyways just my thoughts, :D

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Worth of title "Shill of the year", keep going pal.
Finished product means everything work as it suppose to be, look at Aura, if they fixing it by overworking, that means they had issues in ther sheldue.

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Woe is me for liking the game I pay to play for and looking at logic before acting on raw indignation without delving deeper into the why. Curb your passive aggressive jibes "pal". Or would you like to have a back and forth South Park style, friend?

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Originally Posted by Reap00

If you are not enjoying the game you can take a break. I know its crazy talk but you can especially considering how easy it is to catch up by design. I could respond to everything you have gripes about but it won't resolve anything or change your mind so I won't waste the time.

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I wouldn't even take this as derogatory. Even Yoshi-P has expressed in the past that if you're not enjoying the game you're not obligated to continue playing. Take a break to recharge yourself.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Woe is me for liking the game I pay to play for and looking at logic before acting on raw indignation without delving deeper into the why. Curb your passive aggressive jibes "pal". Or would you like to have a back and forth South Park style, friend?

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Just because you like everything about what SquareEnix do in this game doesn't mean everyone is.

But yeah game is perfect, its only 5.25 lets wait for the expansion to be over to draw conclusion about how lacking it was. Sounds like a good way to improve the game.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Woe is me for liking the game I pay to play for and looking at logic before acting on raw indignation without delving deeper into the why. Curb your passive aggressive jibes "pal". Or would you like to have a back and forth South Park style, friend?

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looking at logic
>SE got rid of 2 dungeons per patch
>No deep dungeon this expansion
>One less zone for relic grind with unique mechanics
>New races can't wear helmets or use existing hairstyles
>New not PVE content is dead after few weeks
>Restoration is just Collectables in new wrapping
Do the math.
"Curb your passive aggressive jibes", would love to, but keep seeing people like you going into every topic that disscus problems and trying to say that everyone here is wrong and that this game is awesome and their complains is nothing. I literally had to argue with someone, who tried to explain that LESS DUNGEONS are better, giving relic for 1k poetics is great idea and having 1 hour of gameplay is more than enough, because they have another games to play.
It really feels like a circus where you must deal with bunch of clowns

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

This is one of the only MMOs that update frequently and in a 'short' amount of time. Expansions coming out every 2 years.
With how many new races, jobs etc. they need to keep track of and update means more workload for them with future assets.

In the end this is just an assumption, and people like to joke "small indie company" but we really don't know what is going on. What we do know is that they did work overtime for the 2 new races to have glasses.

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No its not.
ESO, Neverwinter, Wow, destiny 2, GW2, POE, Swtor.
All these mmorpg/online games give out content patches in the similar or same frequency as FFXIV does.

You may give out this argument in stormblood or in Heavensward and it would be valid, back then SE indeed had the best patches on the mmorpg market, but not anymore.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

No its not.
ESO, Neverwinter, Wow, destiny 2, GW2, POE, Swtor.
All these mmorpg/online games give out content patches in the similar or same frequency as FFXIV does.

You may give out this argument in stormblood or in Heavensward and it would be valid, back then SE indeed had the best patches on the mmorpg market, but not anymore.

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"One of the only" not "Only".

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The games been dying since August of 2013 when it relaunched. People made doom and gloom topics weekly then too. The games still kicking though.
It does amuse me, as someone who's been around since launch and never unsubbed, seeing people with forum join dates of less than a year saying there's nothing to do and they are bored, when I'm still finding stuff to do on a weekly basis that I haven't completed yet.

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I have a lot things to do in this game as well, but you know those activities are not fun (due to them being under 80 lvl) or are irrelevant and outdated. Its like saying people being bored in WoW should go do garisons, okay but why should they do it, if its not fun and boring to begin with?
Housing, gardenings, crafting, fishing, its a nice touch for the small minority of players who do that, but still majority of fun comes battle system which has been consequently gimped and dumbed down and reduced in content to the minimum. Doing dungeon roulette became a sad joke, battle content available at lvl 80 is really small and does not fit in people between casuals and savage raiders. They should have at least bring back old dungeons and make the relevant to the lvl 80, this would cost them very little, but they dont even think about doing so.

If i wanted to play sims i would buy sims 4.

The expansion itself felt very high quality.
The patches that followed it not.
I don't know what they are doing behind the scenes but we got less content.
The Qitary beast tribe Qs were rushed, the Relic weapon was completely absent and we basically got it for free if you exclude some nice lore and few extra cutscenes. There was no gameplay involved.
Dungeons reduced to 1 was a major blow.
Everything feels less now and I got less things to do until next patch which is also delayed.
There is something wrong going on with the development unless they are preparing something massive that takes their time.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

fAu Ra could wear headgear at launch
Au Ra could wear all hairstyles at launch
Au Ra had both genders

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This topic starts off on such a lop-sided and aggressively stupid point IDK how anyone can take the rest seriously lol

These forums ... such a poop show.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

The expansion itself felt very high quality.
The patches that followed it not.

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This is what I actually felt too. The hype at the start for ShB is really big and all but with each patch it just doesn't seem to live up to the initial hype.
At least the Eden storyline is still very interesting.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Dungeons reduced to 1 was a major blow.

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I still dont understand why this is such a big deal. Frankly I think the last 2 Dungeons we got have been good Quality, cant speak for anyone else but I dont get bored or lament getting either of the 2 newest dungeons in Expert Roulette. So I think cutting it back has been good in terms of Designing 1 New Good Dungeon instead of 2 Mediocre ones with 1 being less enjoyable then the other.

The game has 74 dungeons already. I personally don't recall other MMOs that had anywhere near as many dungeons as this game does, saving WoW. And even WoW had a reduction in dungeons/instances after Wrath of the Lich King and onwards.
I don't mind having only 1 dungeon a patch and I've been having a blast with the expansion so far since I like to do a little bit of everything.

That being said I think expansions get a bit overhyped and I can see some people getting frustrated with content delivery, especially now that everything will be delayed due to COVID.

Honestly I like dungeons but I'm not that bothered by it. Lately I've been capping my characters doing hunts. If i do one expert per character now it's a lot. Hunts are so win win when it comes to speed and the tomes/rewards you get from them are sweet.

A rank trains are a mad house these days with so many people doing them. I pretty much just do main, alliance and leveling when it comes to leveling roles not at 80 yet and I'll use trusts as well.

Here comes defend squad, they jumped out of the plane, did a hero landing and proudly telling everyone that a less content to do is a great idea.
One says that doing 1 dungeon instead of 2 somehow increased quality, but it's still wall to wall pull fiesta, so AI could handle it.
Other one used copypasta about 74 dungeons and that we should get less following by that logic, because somehow old content should be viable again for some reason.
And the last one comparing hunts to 4 man content.
They like avengers, but with red noses.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

Actually, yeah, that's exactly what i wanted. It's a ilvl 485 with room for 5 materia VIII, and we got one for free, while any other just requieres a minimal amount of effort (1000 poetics is a fucking joke). It's officially the lamest first step for a relic weapon ever. Eureka Pagos was way WAY better than this, because It gave us something to do

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That's crazy. I guess your opinion is your opinion, but in mine, that's just excessive and unnecessary grind. 30 hours for a single weapon? Definitely not. Eureka was a failure (imo) and some of, if not the most boring/tedious content I've ever done (and I completely maxed out 2 Guardians on Destiny 2 Y1). Good grind should never just feel like mere busy work, that's simply poor game design. Although the way the devs handled relic weapons this time around was a tad easy, it's still a massive improvement over what they did for Eureka (imo). Before I knew Eureka was optional content, I nearly quit the game because of it. Terrible, terrible content, it makes the DFA grind back on Destiny 2 Y1 look like the funnest thing ever (it wasn't).

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Thats just people scared of the label "extreme". This current "ex trial" is easier than some of the normalmode raid bosses we have seen.

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Nah, hard disagree. Mechanic-wise, Varis X is up there with Shinryu X and Seiryu X (synced/while relevant of course). The only thing "easy" about Varis X is his DPS check tbh. To say he's easier than some Normal raids is straight false.

And just a reminder, always judge a fight's difficulty on how easy it is to accomplish with random people who haven't mastered it yet, not how easy it is to accomplish with your decked out static that has studied the mechanics like it was a college course.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

That's crazy. I guess your opinion is your opinion, but in mine, that's just excessive and unnecessary grind. 30 hours for a single weapon? Definitely not. Eureka was a failure (imo) and some of, if not the most boring/tedious content I've ever done (and I completely maxed out 2 Guardians on Destiny 2 Y1). Good grind should never just feel like mere busy work, that's simply poor game design. Although the way the devs handled relic weapons this time around was a tad easy, it's still a massive improvement over what they did for Eureka (imo). Before I knew Eureka was optional content, I nearly quit the game because of it. Terrible, terrible content, it makes the DFA grind back on Destiny 2 Y1 look like the funnest thing ever (it wasn't).

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So a relic in an hour is better than a bunch of hours of interesting content? Despite the fact that in addition to weapons you received a bunch of other awards, mounts, emotions, pets, etc.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

That's crazy. I guess your opinion is your opinion, but in mine, that's just excessive and unnecessary grind. 30 hours for a single weapon? Definitely not. Eureka was a failure (imo) and some of, if not the most boring/tedious content I've ever done (and I completely maxed out 2 Guardians on Destiny 2 Y1). Good grind should never just feel like mere busy work, that's simply poor game design. Although the way the devs handled relic weapons this time around was a tad easy, it's still a massive improvement over what they did for Eureka (imo). Before I knew Eureka was optional content, I nearly quit the game because of it. Terrible, terrible content, it makes the DFA grind back on Destiny 2 Y1 look like the funnest thing ever (it wasn't).

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It wasn't terrible content. It was actually pretty successful and it still well populated if you took the time to look. It may have not been your thing but plenty of people did it and like me many enjoyed the content. The one thing relics have in common is that people will complain about them regardless of the expansion or the particular patch in question.

This patch spent a lot of resources developing a story which many complained was not present in Eureka. One has to wait and see how the relic pans out and what is to come. I for one have been busy getting the relics for my alts and am not done yet. I do hope for a real grind and I'm confident one is coming. Can't wait for the complaint threads when that reality sets in. Already getting a lot of that for the Extreme trial and dyeable AF armor.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Nah, hard disagree. Mechanic-wise, Varis X is up there with Shinryu X and Seiryu X (synced/while relevant of course). The only thing "easy" about Varis X is his DPS check tbh. To say he's easier than some Normal raids is straight false.

And just a reminder, always judge a fight's difficulty on how easy it is to accomplish with random people who haven't mastered it yet, not how easy it is to accomplish with your decked out static that has studied the mechanics like it was a college course.

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I never did Shinryu or Seiryu ex (was taking a break from the game at the time they were current) so I'm not sure where they fall on the scale, but my measuring stick is always Thordan ex. Which took my actual static the better part of a night to actually get down and was absolutely, 100% harder than Memoria ex when new.

I went in with five friends and two randoms the first time, all of varying skill and only one of whom had actually cleared the fight before, and one of the randoms admitted up front that they learn mechanics slower than most (absolutely not a dig on them, appreciated the note and wish I could've helped them but I was totally new to it myself ;;) and we still managed to make phase 3 with people spending most of the fight wiping the floor with their faces.

I wouldn't call it the easiest fight on the planet, but it's definitely far from the hardest ex. Somebody called it a step up from Ruby ex somewhere and I think I agree with them. Phase 3 is the biggest cluster in the fight, most of the rest just takes practice to remember what each mechanic does and how to handle it. So perhaps challenging, but not hard - depending on the skill and interest levels of the person and their group, of course, but that's generally true of any endgame content.

... anyway, on topic, I can't remember if I posted in this thread already or not but my biggest disappointment with this expansion was and still is the decisions to limit Hrothgar and a Viera hairs and hats like they did with zero compensation in any form. "Uniqueness" doesn't make up for having like 30-40 fewer options in hairstyle and playing invisible hats roulette every time I get a new helmet, and if I didn't love literally everything else about this race then I just wouldn't touch it. I'm glad they agree this wasn't ideal, and I get they've got a bunch of their own limitations to work around, but that doesn't make it suck any less.

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Originally Posted by Sheliss

So a relic in an hour is better than a bunch of hours of interesting content? Despite the fact that in addition to weapons you received a bunch of other awards, mounts, emotions, pets, etc.

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In my opinion, yes.
Why? Because it is one weapon. Literally just one of the many, many things that I'm grinding to obtain. I don't want to have to spend 20,30 hours + just worrying about a weapon when I also am trying to get my full armor set, craft the best gear/food/etc., mining/harvesting, do some mount farming, do housing stuff, farm Varis X for AF gear, grind MGP, and the list goes on...

Enough already. Final Fantasy 14 has seen enough grind. It's time for a break, and that's exactly what happened.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

It wasn't terrible content. It was actually pretty successful and it still well populated if you took the time to look. It may have not been your thing but plenty of people did it and like me many enjoyed the content. The one thing relics have in common is that people will complain about them regardless of the expansion or the particular patch in question.

This patch spent a lot of resources developing a story which many complained was not present in Eureka. One has to want and see how the relic pans out and what is to come. I for one have been busy getting the relics for my alts and am not done yet. I do hope for a real grind and I'm confident one is coming. Can't wait for the complaint threads when that reality sets in. Already getting a lot of that for the Extreme trial and dyeable AF armor.

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That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But my opinion is that Eureka is atrocious content that made this game tedious and wearisome.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But my opinion is that Eureka is atrocious content that made this game tedious and wearisome.

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Yes it is my opinion and you're entitled to yours. I don't buy your disregard for it but then again you can think and feel however you like. The fact of the matter is lots of people did it and many still are. I know I earned a WHM relic with an alt pre patch.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes it is my opinion and you're entitled to yours. I don't buy your disregard for it but then again you can think and fell however you like. The fact of the matter is lots of people did it and many still are.

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To be fair, I don't really buy your enjoyment of it either. And I don't deny that, one of my good friends is in love with Eureka and always tried to get me to do it with him. I don't want to like, invalidate his feelings about the place, so I try not to even talk about it with him most of the time.

Varis really is a very easy Extreme not Lackshimi or rathalos Easy but definitely one of the easiest ones there is
and i did it in DF
still a good fight tho enjoyment doesn't always have to relate to difficulty

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

Here comes defend squad, they jumped out of the plane, did a hero landing and proudly telling everyone that a less content to do is a great idea.
One says that doing 1 dungeon instead of 2 somehow increased quality, but it's still wall to wall pull fiesta, so AI could handle it.
Other one used copypasta about 74 dungeons and that we should get less following by that logic, because somehow old content should be viable again for some reason.
And the last one comparing hunts to 4 man content.
They like avengers, but with red noses.

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When did I say we should be getting less dungeons? I just compared to other MMOs and said I don't recall others having more and that the one game I could recall started to reduce them as well, not that having less is the way to go.
All I said is that I personally don't mind it. I welcome more content, but I don't mind it the way it is right now. Chill, dude.

It's funny that people are suddenly saying they love Eureka and they want it to come back when last expansion there's constant threads about it saying it's the worst thing ever and that the devs should stop continuing it.

I mean yeah, the relic grind this time is pretty short, but they can improve/extend the grind in a more engaging manner. A zone with the only thing to do there is just killing X amount of trash mobs to spawn a FATE in a new coat of paint is not really "interesting" content I'd want them to revisit, and most people did as well.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

It's funny that people are suddenly saying they love Eureka and they want it to come back when last expansion there's constant threads about it saying it's the worst thing ever and that the devs should stop continuing it.

I mean yeah, the relic grind this time is pretty short, but they can improve/extend the grind in a more engaging manner. A zone with the only thing to do there is just killing X amount of trash mobs to spawn a FATE in a new coat of paint is not really "interesting" content I'd want them to revisit, and most people did as well.

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I disliked Anemos and Pagos greatly. I would still like to have something like them over the lack of max level content we currently have. Even if its not attached to the relic.

Preferably I would like something much better, but its better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Sheliss

So a relic in an hour is better than a bunch of hours of interesting content?

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This is a common yet completely out of context whine I see.

In SB they gave us Eureka Anemos ... which (regardless of Eureka eventually turning into the best bit of Social combat content added to this game IMHO) started out players on such a sour note that upon realizing the level of GRIND it took just to go up a few levels many casuals turned their nose up at it and never came back, content with just whining about how they don't get a relic this expac. No matter the nerfs which made anemos decent, not matter how much praise the 3rd and 4th zones got after SE found out how to make it actually fun, no matter the rewards ... MANY casuals just never came back because of that first impression. And because they never wanted to come back people whined that they didn't like that new mounts and hair styles were locked behind it cause god forbid SE actually reward people for doing time-sink content.

So what's happening now? We have a relic story that's connected to events in the MSQ. We have an engaging, interesting story featuring a cast of known characters, lore behind a new race, an EX encounter and such. Way more welcoming than Anemos. What's coming next? We have some kinda eureka like exploration zone coming next with the option to grind your shiny weapon out without touching it apparently according to the devs. IDK why people can't appreciate what good they've gotten as they wait for the mindless non-sense grind they can complete later.

This is a P2P game, your time sink is coming. Seems clear to me that they're making the intro to these weapons easy so that people are actually willing to put up with the grind later and/or are more tempted to give the eureka like stuff a chance once it's ready.
I think it's actually very sneaky on their part, like a drug dealer giving you the first hit for free. You end up with 10+ weapons right now and it's gonna be hard to NOT want to complete 10+ weapons when things get grindy. Where as with Eureka even someone like myself who LOVES what it became was content to leave it at 1 completed weapon for a long time cause "I don't wanna deal with Pagos again ...".

But that's just me though.
IMO every relic before eureka was just a failure in design that didn't grab me. Tis why the Eureka relic are the only one I completed, it actually demanded you interact with others and learn new stuff. Why anyone wants the devs to tell them to run the same old dngs over and over again just to give them "something to do" is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

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To be fair, grinding and farming never is something that interesting or fun, whatever the content you consider. It is rather a matter of motivation in the instant.

We can only assume some people prefer Ex farm and some others prefer mobs/fates farm. Some people don't really mind both but some other can't deal with a side or another. People who like Ex will say that people who prefer mobs/fate grind are just frightened by Ex. The reality is Ex and mobs/fates farm don't require the same kind of time investment. For Ex you need to be ready to invest... 2 or 3hours, sometimes more, in one run (let's say one "training/farm party"). Contents like Eureka, you can spend one hour, two hours, you can come only an half. Ex vs mobs/fates farm, if the global time needed ends to be the same, the time management can be pretty different.

Mobs/fates farm allow more liberty for time management, it is also more tolerant to latency matters.
Ex are probably more fun in the eyes of people who have a static or who don't mind to wait one (or more) hour the PF fill.