Can we as paying customers agree the lack of Housing is simply unacceptable to SE?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Housing is like in the real world, first come , first serve. SE has taken steps to help the problem. The real issue is that do to Gill Sellers they monopolize many wards. SE can't really do anything unless they have solid proof of violation. So for now call in days off, call in sick, use vacation time, camp areas out. That's how most of us got them anyways. That and default from Non FC leaders showing up.

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Nah because in the real world, there are dozens of houses for sale everyday. In the real world it's more a matter of having the money. There is no shortage of houses in the real world, there may be a shortage of houses in your price range at that time, but that can change on a daily basis. FYI: just bought a house IRL early this year, there were no shortage of houses available, but what we qualified for did limit our choices.

Lots of people unsubbing because of the housing shortage. So sad. :(

Not to mention, we don't play a game to simulate real-world bullshit. Stupid argument.

Hey SE,

Time to do your research: https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVhousingmarket/
RMT Housing and scalping... get your ass to work... lol

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Housing is like in the real world, first come , first serve. SE has taken steps to help the problem. The real issue is that do to Gill Sellers they monopolize many wards. SE can't really do anything unless they have solid proof of violation. So for now call in days off, call in sick, use vacation time, camp areas out. That's how most of us got them anyways. That and default from Non FC leaders showing up.

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In the real world, when there's more demand for housing, developers come in and build more housing. That increases supply. That's basic economics.

Besides, this isn't the real world. SE has the technical ability to scale up the ward count. They also have the technical ability to limit houses to one per server per account, which would force scalpers or sellers to run multiple subscriptions to hold houses and dramatically drive up the cost of doing so.

They choose to do neither of these things because reasons.

A victim of the current housing system here, I couldn't get a single house in Shirogane when I could finally log in after fighting with the stupid client and getting a 1k waiting list... I managed to snatch a cottage plot two years ago, but I wanted to upgrade to a house... guess I won't be seeing one for the foreseeable future... I guess it all depends on luck, and SE won't move an inch to fix this if they haven't in the past 4 years.

Anyway, I wanted to make their life easier and summed up what I've seen around this thread regarding the housing system and what issues it has (not like SE doesn't know, but w/e, I'm bored enough):

- Housing must be limited to ONE house per account for both personal and Free Company (1 personal house and 1 Free Company house in every account, even with more than 1 character on different worlds).
- Housing must be separate between Free Companies and individual players.
- A system so that players are not able to sell houses must be implemented (since they could get another account and purchase the house with it, even with the above limitations).
- A system so that house purchasing does not deppend on luck, good internet connection, proximity to the servers, and timezones must be implemented.
- Free Companies should only be eligible to purchase a house if they have enough active members, a member should counted per account in that subserver (if 2 characters of the same account are in the same FC, they are counted as 1; on different servers, they are counted as 1 on each; No idea how an account with characters in different FCs should be handled).
* Cottages should require at least 10 FC members (indicative numbers)
* Houses should require at least 25 FC members
* Mansions should require at least 50 FC members
- Some kind of system to avoid unused housing should be implemented, such as players owning a house but almost never using it, this should come in the form of a weekly fee of sorts, keeping some kind of reputation gouge that depletes daily at a certain point, or interacting with the house every so often. As for FCs, only those that keep their active members up will be able to keep the housing, if it drops below the required number for a certain amount of time, the house should be revoked.
- The housing system must be overhauled so that every player is able to purchase a house if they are able to pay for it, but still respecting the above rules.
- Some kind of requirement to purchase housing should be implemented, such as reaching a certain amount of reputation with the city estate in which the housing area is in, additionally, only players above a certain level should be able to access this content for different housing sizes:
* Cottages should require a small amount of reputation (for levels 30 and above) [these values are indicative]
* Houses should require a moderate amount of reputation (for levels 50 and above)
* Mansions should require the maximum amount of reputation (for levels 70 and above)

Feel free to recomend more of these limitations, I'll add them up.

Unsubbing until this shit is fixed. I'll pay month to month, but SE loves its subscription numbers, so if that's the only place I can hurt them, I'll do that.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Housing is like in the real world, first come , first serve.

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Except that it's not. In the real world, people bid against one another and the price is based upon scarcity and demand. I'm not arguing that it should/shouldn't be that way here, just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

Housing should be available to ALL players subscribing to this game. Period.

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Originally Posted by Kyoji5

Housing should be available to ALL players subscribing to this game. Period.

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I agree. If there needs to be some kind of special snowflake area where you have to win a virtual lottery or bust up a Super Expert Ultimate Baddy 11.0, so be it, but don't exclude 80% of the sub base from certain content for years with no way to overcome it.

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Originally Posted by Probably_Nice

Except that it's not. In the real world, people bid against one another and the price is based upon scarcity and demand. I'm not arguing that it should/shouldn't be that way here, just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

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I would have had more chance with bidding instead of fighting with a "login in" btn + inevitable queue, while everything was being bought ahead of me.

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Originally Posted by Hsr38

I would have had more chance with bidding instead of fighting with a "login in" btn + inevitable queue, while everything was being bought ahead of me.

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This. I saw some people in this thread throwing the "dedicated" card. I still can't see how "being online at early morning and not getting crashed/booted" is a form of dedication? I thought dedication would reflect the effort you put into building this gil pool to buy the house, but I guess in this era of words gaining new meanings my definition of "dedication" is outdated.

Honestly, as someone who has worked in community forums, I cannot stand the attitude "we didn't ask for it!" It comes off as very spoilt and and ungrateful. I think of it as more trying to give us little surprises, which are nice. No, you or I may not have asked for them but they are enjoyed. While we are paying customers, we're not always right.

That being said, they really should try to come up with a way to fix the housing issue which has been plaguing them and us for almost as long as the game as been running. It's a highly sought after feature and they did put a lot of work into it to make it enjoyable, too. So... it should be enjoyed. Not just by a few thousand people, but by all of us if possible. Though there are limitations. Without us being behind the scenes, we don't really know what those limitations are.

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Originally Posted by Alastair_Helyous

This. I saw some people in this thread throwing the "dedicated" card. I still can't see how "being online at early morning and not getting crashed/booted" is a form of dedication? I thought dedication would reflect the effort you put into building this gil pool to buy the house, but I guess in this era of words gaining new meanings my definition of "dedication" is outdated.

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Right? xD And not everyone has top-knotch internet speeds, either.

Agreed. LOL. This is so sour I'm going to cancel my pre-order for Dissidia. Seeing FF stuff now just makes me think of strangely bad decisions on the developers part. There's easy answers to these issues! SOOOOOOO FRIGGGGGGIN EEEEAAAASY! Lol. My respect for world of warcraft is going up, not because of the quality(SE built an amazing game that is ff14), but world of warcraft seems to be holding all the common sense now.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

In the real world, when there's more demand for housing, developers come in and build more housing. That increases supply. That's basic economics.

Besides, this isn't the real world. SE has the technical ability to scale up the ward count. They also have the technical ability to limit houses to one per server per account, which would force scalpers or sellers to run multiple subscriptions to hold houses and dramatically drive up the cost of doing so.

They choose to do neither of these things because reasons.

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Also this. Its good to remember that LotR online has a similar housing system to ours, however as soon as a ward fills a new one is generated. I know that LotRO is called a member of the MMO trinity along WoW and ESO while FF XIV is a fairly obscure game by a small company with nearly indie status, but c'mon SE you can do better than that.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

How the dice are thrown and how they land are up to each individual.

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Good gods its been a long time since ive even bothered to slide on this forums but seriously i had to for the silliness posted here. So you are saying people can just.. make it happen? Right.. so lets discuss what happened to my whole FC this morning when the servers came up. Many of us tried to log on. All with access or money ready, players lined up right outside the zone.. you name it. Everything was perfect. Nope 2000 in que. And trust me, some people were trying even before the server came up to get on.. just in case. How in the bloody hells is someone just suppose to.. "make the dice land how they want it" Seriously. *rolls eyes*

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Those who want things handed to them, must take a number, wait for their turn, and keep telling themselves that it's normal. Good luck on that.

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'people that wanted things handed to them.' My friend.. if you don't think people worked really hard to get a house.. and just want it for free.. you are a bigger fool than i thought and clearly lack reading comprehension. As in.. you clearly haven't read into any of the complaints.. because as stated.. why would you? You clearly are here to stir up trouble. Or maybe its to defend the way the game is doing it just so you can keep up this silly notion of 'i own two houses.. and you don't.. plebs..' kind of attitude?

Because let me let you in on a little secret. That kind of attitude hurts the game you clearly like but wont admit faults in. By the way.. might want to check the likes in each of your posts, or in this case the lack there of, i think that speaks volumes.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

With the new expansion more a new area will become available and same rules as RL apply. First come first serve. Some of us are just more dedicated than others and work around RL. While this game has SOME rules similar to RL it's more of common sense which unfortunately seems to be a dying trait even in games. Communicate, befriend playesr, connections, ect. If people can't do the basics it's no surprise. Should this game become more like RL? Giver people a trophy for trying so their self esteem doesn't get hut? or in this case a house? Funny this game has already been neref enough and people still complain.

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Every time its used, the whole 'RL' comparison/argument falls apart once you realize people play video games to specifically ESCAPE real life. Not experience some weird parallel version of it. If anything 'its like real life' is a reason to change it, not keep it the same or justify it.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

As in.. you clearly haven't read into any of the complaints.. because as stated.. why would you?

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He'll forgive my ad hominem, but this Manuel person is probably one of the greatest idiots I had the displeasure to see posting anything anywhere. He doesn't understand what our complaints are, he refuses to even try to understand what are we upset about and simply is too arrogant to get off the high horse to look at anything under his nose.

In fact, he is the very one who mentioned to believe this is a sort of "dedication" based system when its, in fact, a literal lottery. He mentions new areas will create in future expansions (read: in THREE YEARS), but he also ignores the fact that the new zones aren't being added proportionally to the growth of the community. SE didn't even pretend to be doing it to accommodate the fact the servers became much more populated in these years since the last housing expansion.

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Originally Posted by Scardon

Every time its used, the whole 'RL' comparison/argument falls apart once you realize people play video games to specifically ESCAPE real life. Not experience some weird parallel version of it. If anything 'its like real life' is a reason to change it, not keep it the same or justify it.

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He mentions RL, yet ignores the fact housing doesn't have to be scarce for the sole reason we are not using the literal land for our housing. Its neither physical nor real. And if LotRO and Warframe, which are far smaller games than FF XIV (and Warframe is FREE) managed to make a system better than ours, why can't SE?

I honestly want someone to explain to me how being booted or not, crashing or not, during a massive struggle with at least 50 other players for a single plot which will not grant the chance of retrial in at least 3 years is somehow dedicated. Dedication is training Savage/Extreme content to earn a pony. Dedication is joining a hunting Link Shell and being prepared to fight those Fate Primals, like Ixion or Odin for their rare drops. Dedication is gathering tomestomes/centurio seals to buy end gear.

Connection/Disconnection RNG being called "dedication", though? Are you serious?

Big kudos to those that got one yes , but what of those that bragged about buying 60 plots? Still say kudos then? I say greedy. Do you need that many ? no so why do it, simply because your allowed to ? No one stopped you? No self control ? It’s a two way street , yes there is a flaw but exploiting it for personal gain even if it was for a fc or personal home is absurd. Don’t think so next time you go to grocery store and they have something you really want it’s limited edition style food once a year. Then fatty greed butt buys it all even the pallets in the back all because they can . Still fair?

I have one house (and only one, don't see the need for any more than that), yet even I can see that there are flaws in the system. The current system makes it pay to hoard for reselling later (and even though it's against ToS, how often do people even get dinged for it?), and there are good things locked behind said system. Certain plants to grow yourself? Need a house for that. Company Workshop for your FC (for exploration stuff)? Need a house for that. I mean if apartments had the ability to place outdoor furnishings (such as a gardening plot, as well as share tenancies), and therefore housing was purely a status symbol (for personal housing, compared to apartments), I'd be more than happy to give up my house. But, at the same time, a revamp of housing is needed.

Oh, and the GC affiliated with your FC? Should offer you a workshop for say 2m once you hit rank 6. No deterioration, no countdown timer. Make it accessible the same place you access GC barracks.

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Originally Posted by Alastair_Helyous

I honestly want someone to explain to me how being booted or not, crashing or not, during a massive struggle with at least 50 other players for a single plot which will not grant the chance of retrial in at least 3 years is somehow dedicated. Dedication is training Savage/Extreme content to earn a pony. Dedication is joining a hunting Link Shell and being prepared to fight those Fate Primals, like Ixion or Odin for their rare drops. Dedication is gathering tomestomes/centurio seals to buy end gear.

Connection/Disconnection RNG being called "dedication", though? Are you serious?

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Black Friday sales. You were either first in line, or you got trampled under the rush. That's what this was. Can't blame Walmart for the insane activity of other people leading to you not getting what you wanted.

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Originally Posted by k99

Black Friday sales. You were either first in line, or you got trampled under the rush. That's what this was. Can't blame Walmart for the insane activity of other people leading to you not getting what you wanted.

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Drop this complete nonsense mentality. SE is not Walmart and if they wanted to, they'd already increase amount of wards available by a lot. Server limitation excuse is complete nonsense and cannot be treated seriously anymore. I'd like to remind you, that initially there's been 8 wards and 3 housing districts with no subdivisions. Thats 720 houses total. Currently there's 4 housing zones, 12 wards each and subdivisons on top of that. That's 2880 houses. Their excuse back in a day was exactly the same though. Server limitations and what not. How come they went from 720 to 2880, yet servers are still alive, given we have apartments now, increased inventory space and housing storage which can hold huge amount of items ? Yeah, it costs them more money. You know what though ? They also make more money as more people then ever play this game now. There's more cash shop items and merchendise then ever before. Problem with SE is that they take that money and use it in order to support game development of other SE games, instead of upgrading their archaic code and limitations that are a result of it.

I believe if you have the money then you should be able to get a house and what we have now is so messed up

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Originally Posted by Imsoangry

Drop this complete nonsense mentality..

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It is what it is, but the only thing I can see people venting about is being mad that they are not the primary/sole owner of the property. In no way are you barred from enjoying housing to the fullest, short of being the absolute owner. Joining an FC, or sharing a house with a friend gives you all the benefits of said home. I own a house, and have gladly offered friends who could not buy to use my house like it's there own. If you don't have a friend or FC that you can do this with, then it can't be helped. But a finite number of homes is what gives it the novelty which so many now unfortunate non-owners were gunning for the house in the first place. If it was not special, you'd probably share with someone right away. Is there really such a problem sharing a house with someone? Or is being the prime owner of utmost importance?

More wards and ishgard please.

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Originally Posted by k99

It is what it is, but the only thing I can see people venting about is being mad that they are not the primary/sole owner of the property. In no way are you barred from enjoying housing to the fullest, short of being the absolute owner. Joining an FC, or sharing a house with a friend gives you all the benefits of said home. I own a house, and have gladly offered friends who could not buy to use my house like it's there own. If you don't have a friend or FC that you can do this with, then it can't be helped. But a finite number of homes is what gives it the novelty which so many now unfortunate non-owners were gunning for the house in the first place. If it was not special, you'd probably share with someone right away. Is there really such a problem sharing a house with someone? Or is being the prime owner of utmost importance?

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The fact that you look at something in a specific way, doesn't automatically mean everyone should. I myself own a house for 3 years now, yet see flaws in current system. Flaws I pointed out in my previous post. Yeah, exactly those that you completely ignored. Some don't care about housing, some don't mind just letting FC handle how it looks, but there's MANY people for whom it's a nice place where you can be in, and fully customise how it looks with furnitures. To prove it, just look at how many PRIVATE buyers is in Shirogane and how many FC's to compare it. It's as simple as that and it's beyond me that you fail to understand that. There's nothing special about getting lucky with the queue rng machine. I've myself got prepared perfectly for this occassion. I have a solid PC, solid internet. Logged in as quick as I could and got rekt by error that put me away from initial queue. Been waiting for this day since they showed off Shirogane. I have over 999 milions gils. Yet, I can't get a house I want as everything is gone in 5 minutes. If system was as great as you seem to claim it to be, there'd be no complaints - yet there's tons. Even French community manager promissed today to deliver Yoshida how angry players are regarding this. Just stop being a blind white knight seriously. Also, if u not intend to refer to reasonable arguments I provide, don't bother replying as I won't bother participating in this conversation no more. You completely ignored everything I said, and just because you think that housing is ok, it should be clear that all those upset people are just lunatics who complain for no reason. Following your ridiculous way of thinking, they should just never added wards 8-12 and subdivisions, to make those who owned a house already even more special.

Well this is the best I can do, SE responded on the French Forums and I did a Google Translate.

Full Disclosure: I was one of the lucky ones that managed to avoid the log-in error message to snag a plot. I was on Discord with an FC mate who got hit the lobby error and that error put her in line with an 1100+ player que. Even though I got one I still empathize with people who didn't as this literally was luck of the draw.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a7&oe=5A437E78

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

The current system makes it pay to hoard for reselling later (and even though it's against ToS, how often do people even get dinged for it?)

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On Phoenix someone was selling Large house on Shirogane within 350M offer. He shouted out that GM gave him a permission to sell as long as he's not scamming (he claimed that he asked from GM himself since ppl were PMing him for reporting him for that PF). I guess you can wipe your butt with ToS atm since apparently it doesn't matter. You can buy plots and sell them as you like, against the ToS or not.

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Originally Posted by gbe931

Well this is the best I can do, SE responded on the French Forums and I did a Google Translate.

Full Disclosure: I was one of the lucky ones that managed to avoid the log-in error message to snag a plot. I was on Discord with an FC mate who got hit the lobby error and that error put her in line with an 1100+ player que. Even though I got one I still empathize with people who didn't as this literally was luck of the draw.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a7&oe=5A437E78

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I'm highly skeptical Yoshi's response won't be a mere apology note.

There won't be more than just 'We are deeply sorry' and life goes on

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Originally Posted by k99

Black Friday sales. You were either first in line, or you got trampled under the rush. That's what this was. Can't blame Walmart for the insane activity of other people leading to you not getting what you wanted.

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So your defense is that they are being like walmart and their stupid, and dangerous, black friday nonsense? That's not something to aspire to.

And, again, people play games to ESCAPE real life. Therefore if you can find a close, unpleasant real life comparison that's a good reason to CHANGE it, not justify it or defend.

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Originally Posted by gbe931

Well this is the best I can do, SE responded on the French Forums and I did a Google Translate.

Full Disclosure: I was one of the lucky ones that managed to avoid the log-in error message to snag a plot. I was on Discord with an FC mate who got hit the lobby error and that error put her in line with an 1100+ player que. Even though I got one I still empathize with people who didn't as this literally was luck of the draw.

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a7&oe=5A437E78

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"Sorry, not sorry -Yoshi"

Housing is stupid and broken and I can't believe they don't do basic shit like "you can only have one house, you jerks," in a game where there's a limited amount of housing plots.

It's madness. I can't believe that it's still so bad after so long.

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Originally Posted by Scardon

So your defense is

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I apologize that you took offense. I am not supportive towards everyone's misfortune.

You're still playing with real people, just not at a physical location. So not a full escape from real life. People will still be people, whether in person or from behind a computer. People's varying interpretations of what housing is supposed to be as a feature is turning into a mish mash of the ugliest side of players. The part I feel being misrepresented is the notion that content is being withheld or people are being deprived of game features because they could not get a house. The only thing lost by not owning is simply not being the primary/only owner of the property. But by extension of a different owner/FC, everyone is able to enjoy 99.9% of housing. The remaining being absolute ownership to dictate the property's management.

At the end of the day, it was intended to be limited and unique, not easily accessible.

Saying you are defending it doesn't imply offense was taken. I was pointing out trying to defend this horrible system by presenting a real life example of another horrible system really isn't going to win anyone over and if anything is a reason to change it. People will be jerks, and measures should be taken to offset the worst parts. Not just shrug and say 'well people can be jerks, sorry' when multiple solutions are readily available

Secondly, owning a house comes with more than having your name on it. The fact you don't realize this means you are behind on this entire conversation and the problem it is discussing.

I can't argue that it is limited or unique, but for all the wrong reasons with no upside. This is like creating 10 cars that run on liquid gold. Certainly limited and unique, but of zero use to most people. On the other hand if people are enjoying housing purely because its limited, that's closer to feeding sadist, toxic behavior than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Scardon

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I can't argue that it is limited or unique, but for all the wrong reasons with no upside. This is like creating 10 cars that run on liquid gold. Certainly limited and unique, but of zero use to most people. On the other hand if people are enjoying housing purely because its limited, that's closer to feeding sadist, toxic behavior than anything else.

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I'm all for unique and limited items, a la glamour, titles, etc. Unique and limited content that I'm helping fund the creation, implementation, and support for is absolutely unacceptable.