Forcing players to pay to keep housing is unfair.

SE is behind the times, instanced housing is where it's at. It would solve the awful problem of limited housing space, which is absurd in the Year of Our Trump 2017. They also don't allow for very much freedom with their housing system.https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nwmRTegcB68/maxresdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by alimdia

This is also why we're getting an increased item limit inside houses but not outdoors, because outdoors is always taking resources.

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Maybe you listen closer next time.

There are 2 kinds of resources.

1. Server resources
2. Client resources

The reason for not increasing the amount of outdoor furnishings are the client resources. FFXIV is not streamloading like other games. When you enter an area, the game loads the entire map with all objects into graphics memory. There seems to be a limit they currently can't bypass.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

you dont pay the rent

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Again someone with absolute wrong arguments. We don't rent a house in this game. We buy it. When I buy a house in real life, its mine till I sell it. I don't have to pay rent for it.

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

Honestly, I don't really get the whole "having a house in a video game" thing. For FC's it's more understandable with workshops and such. But personal houses? What's the point?

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Where else will I have my sex dungeon/Reese's Puff factory and aquarium with cute fish??

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Again someone with absolute wrong arguments. We don't rent a house in this game. We buy it. When I buy a house in real life, its mine till I sell it. I don't have to pay rent for it.

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you still pay something whether its lights , water, gas etc, if you dont pay propriety taxes your in trouble, the thing is maybe you shouldnt have to log into the game or walk in your house but taking a break from the game and not paying your sub you should have no right to that house when someone else could be paying a sub and have the house.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

When I buy a house in real life, its mine till I sell it. I don't have to pay rent for it.

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But you still have to make payments on it. Miss a few payments and the bank forecloses on it. Even if you buy a home in real life with cash, taxes are still due. Don't pay those taxes and the government can seize the house and property, so the house is never really yours.

Back on topic. As someone who does not own a house in game, but wants to. I think 45 days is a fair amount of time to demo a home. Also someone who has served in the Armed Forces and knowing what could happen if I was deployed for a long period of time, I would not be buying a house in game.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Let's hope it's not halfway through the expansion or right at the end. Because I'm fairly certain a lot of people will want the expansion for the sole purpose of getting those japanese houses stuff.

I mean didn't they initially say how HW would bring an additional retainer? Yeah I remember that.

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Supposedly it's just locked down for a bit after launch to allow people to get to the point in the story where it unlocks the housing zone. They want people to be able to pace themselves through the content instead of skipping everything in a mad dash to open up the housing ward to grab a house.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Again someone with absolute wrong arguments. We don't rent a house in this game. We buy it. When I buy a house in real life, its mine till I sell it. I don't have to pay rent for it.

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You bought a house but don't expect to make any payments?

http://www.fruitfulproperty.com/asse...property-s.jpg

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I cant believe this is still going its simple think of it like this , if you have a house in real life and you dont pay the rent what happens next?

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You people need to stop comparing a GAME to REAL LIFE. I'm sorry, but this is the most stupid excuse to be using.

*Edit - As some people already pointed out to you. We BOUGHT these houses, we aren't renting them. So please, just stop.

I remember that they've postponed the demolition date a could of times before due to natural disasters. Could always hope for that happening again.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I cant believe this is still going its simple think of it like this , if you have a house in real life and you dont pay the rent what happens next?

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I don't have rent and my mortgage is fully paid. What now? Lol I can't lose anything.

I've had my fc house since it came out, bought it one month after housing was released. Idk how I feel about it tbh, SE really needs a real fix for the whole situation..

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

I remember that they've postponed the demolition date a could of times before due to natural disasters. Could always hope for that happening again.

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Hoping for natural disasters to effect thousands just so you can get a virtual house demolition timer frozen, thats kind of awful lol.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

You people need to stop comparing a GAME to REAL LIFE. I'm sorry, but this is the most stupid excuse to be using.

*Edit - As some people already pointed out to you. We BOUGHT these houses, we aren't renting them. So please, just stop.

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You're using SE owned pixels. You didn't buy anything.


"YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.
"

http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

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Originally Posted by Iromi

I don't have rent and my mortgage is fully paid. What now? Lol I can't lose anything.

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Still gotta pay homeowners insurance on it. Not to mention your taxes. Unless you want the IRS after you.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

I remember that they've postponed the demolition date a could of times before due to natural disasters. Could always hope for that happening again.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Hoping for natural disasters to effect thousands just so you can get a virtual house demolition timer frozen, thats kind of awful lol.

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I think this warrants reposting. Like seriously. Hoping for another equivalent to the earthquake in Japan just to suspend a timer on a virtual house is kinda messed up.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

I know, almost as awful as laughing at someone whining about not being able to unconsciously hog up server space.

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Uhm... no. Not even close. One is people just wanting a virtual house for their personal use. The other is hoping for a natural disaster that could potentially kill hundreds to thousands of people, injure many more, and result in the loss of property and other real-life physical items JUST so the housing timer can be suspended for a few months. Like no. There is no comparison here at all.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Hoping for natural disasters to effect thousands just so you can get a virtual house demolition timer frozen, thats kind of awful lol.

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I know, almost as awful as laughing at someone whining about not being able to unconsciously hog up server space.

That being said, I definitely wouldn't do either of those just to clarify....okay, maybe I was laughing a little bit at the original post....just enough to make friends ask if I needed help.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

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Wow you can pull up an FAQ/ToS! You're just so great. And in all this, it still not the point of the matter so congratulations on your pointless whiteknighting my friend.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

Wow you can pull up an FAQ/ToS! You're just so great. And in all this, it still not the point of the matter so congratulations on your pointless whiteknighting my friend.

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So Im guessing your saying that someone should be able to buy a house on say balmung a very populated server , and cancel their account for a whole year and should be able to maintain their house? I could see this if housing wasnt so hard to get in this game but it is so its not exactly fair that someone who stops playing the game outright to be able to keep their house indefinitely\


@Stitches1974 haha your counter was to funny haha

If someone calling the other side pointless and that they are whiteknighting, that doesn't really make your side of the argument any better.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

Wow you can pull up an FAQ/ToS! You're just so great. And in all this, it still not the point of the matter so congratulations on your pointless whiteknighting my friend.

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white knight
ˈˌ(h)wīt ˈnīt/
noun
a person or thing that comes to someone's aid.

Who did I aid? I just corrected your inaccurate statement.

Edit: You're not my friend. I don't know you at all.

Yes, you do pay rent for the houses. It's called the subscription fee.

(I added a multiquotes but I'm too dumb to figure out how to add them. RIP).

Everyone whining about housing will become silent on the issue when/if they finally aquire one. It's only such a desperate issue for them becuase they are without. Once they get it, they could all careless.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Everyone whining about housing will become silent on the issue when/if they finally aquire one. It's only such a desperate issue for them becuase they are without. Once they get it, they could all careless.

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You mean they couldn't care less?

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Originally Posted by Cylla

Wow you can pull up an FAQ/ToS! You're just so great. And in all this, it still not the point of the matter so congratulations on your pointless whiteknighting my friend.

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Why do you have to bring Paladins into this? What did they do to you.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Why do you have to bring Paladins into this? What did they do to you.

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Okay. That made me laugh.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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That is in fact what I'm saying. Because the reality of this is: SE should've done this right the first time around or setup a better system for housing. Tell me something y'all- do you know any game today, that has housing that has such apply to it? I could list a few off top of my head that have done it right and if someone quit they still come back to having their house/apartment, etc. My point, and I've said this earlier when the topic started but I guess people weren't reading and just decide to make it sound like the only people I'm sticking up for are those who already have a house. Which is not the case. And while I know I shouldn't point this out, I'm going to anyway~ Servers like Balmung people sell houses for double what they are worth. A small house can range anywhere from 30mil to 70mil, and we all know, people are going to pay that. Be it your opinion of, "Well their dumb enough to buy it at that price." that their choice sadly and people want a house that much. If they take a break, come back, house is gone, they only get back half that price of the plot, not the crazy price they paid.

I know most you people aren't going to care or say, "Their fault." but let all just agree on one thing, if SE had done this right the first time or fixed it by now, there wouldn't be all this fuss and stupid crap over housing. I respect both sides of the opinions here but what it all comes down to is this is SE fault and they should be fixing it or doing it right.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Everyone whining about housing will become silent on the issue when/if they finally aquire one. It's only such a desperate issue for them becuase they are without. Once they get it, they could all careless.

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Nope. I used to own a house on Faerie and even then I was still pretty vocal about how awful the housing situation was. (And still is)

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Everyone whining about housing will become silent on the issue when/if they finally aquire one. It's only such a desperate issue for them becuase they are without. Once they get it, they could all careless.

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You've made this claim already before, and I already pointed out earlier in this thread that it is objectively false. I am a homeowner and I approve of the demo timer.

I've even lost a home in the past to it. If anyone has a right to complain, it is people like me who bought a house back when they said that housing was permanent, only having it taken away later after the timer was added and yet you don't see me throwing a tantrum on the forums. Why? Because I have accepted that a) it's just pixels and no matter how long I play or how much time/effort I invest in this game, eventually everything will one day 'poof' like it never existed and b) I don't own anything, this entire game and all it's trimmings are SE's and I just pay them for the privilege of being able to play with their toys that they ultimately get the last say over. It is just the reality of the game we play, if you want to buy a house, you have to accept the limitations that come with it, or put your gil into something else. No one is lying to you or keeping the demo timer a secret, you accept that when you purchase the house.

Until SE gets their act together and actually fixes the hot mess that is housing so that everyone can have a house, I will continue to support the demo timer. If you want to rage at something, at least try to be productive. Put pressure on SE to overhaul the entire system, don't just whine and moan about the symptoms of the housing crisis.

SE needs to overhaul the system, until then the demolition timer has to stay. If anything I think the timer should be tightened to 24 hours. This will ensure that people either login every day to keep their house, or they lose it. This way any house in use is being used (or at least entered) every single day. At least until SE sort this mess out. I don't have a house and frankly don't want a house. If apartments become the same way as houses, then I would agree with apartments getting the same 24 hour countdown timer (but apparently Square Enix have said it's ridiculously easy to add in new apartments so this shouldn't become an issue). Hopefully in the Stormblood area though since this will be a new housing area, they get it right that time. Want a house in Mist/LavBeds/Goblet, play by the old rules. Want a house in the new area? Make it instanced for each individual player/FC so then you don't need ridiculous demolition timers for that area. And if they ever get round to fixing the original 3 areas, then take the timer off those too.

And yes if the apartment thing did come to pass with the same timer I would lose my apartment. Big deal, I put on my pants and MOVE ON. With the current system they have for houses they can't win. So if they make a new system for the new area that is instanced from the get go so anyone who wants one can get one, I feel that would go a long way to calming the issue at hand.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

Until SE gets their act together and actually fixes the hot mess that is housing so that everyone can have a house, I will continue to support the demo timer. If you want to rage at something, at least try to be productive. Put pressure on SE to overhaul the entire system, don't just whine and moan about the symptoms of the housing crisis.

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This right here ^ Everyone sits here attacking each other over opinions or think their being funny by pulling up ToS and missing the whole point. While I know the OP wasn't making any point other then being upset about the timer, some people did make good points before of course the topic turned into the whole GAME/REAL LIFE bs that it is now. If we want to rage, it should be at SE, not each other or about the timer. There is yes the problem of SE not looking at threads or people feeling like they aren't being heard but we do know they look at topics. This one does nothing to help or pressure SE into an overhaul or fix, it just a bunch of people going off on each other because they don't like someone else opinion and would rather look at the small picture rather then the larger one at hand.

Except this is a game and we pay a sub, that should cover taxes...
Just because housing was poorly implemented (instanced would have been better) the solution is not what they have come up with

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Originally Posted by Maero

Just because housing was poorly implemented (instanced would have been better) the solution is not what they have come up with

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Exactly, the demo timer nothing more than a bandage (and a pretty poor one at that, but still better than nothing.)

Instead of arguing about changing the bandage, maybe we should put pressure on SE to fix the wound?

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You cannot disregard the MMO term because it explains how instances are used in this game, ward instances are never closed, they are live using RAM and CPU 24/7 as long as the server is running, we were explained as much before, which is why they can't freely add more wards, but house instances are closed once you exit or logout and the position of furniture is saved, recreated when you re-enter the house.

This is also why we're getting an increased item limit inside houses but not outdoors, because outdoors is always taking resources.

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You did not read what I said.

When you instance an object. Be it a Zone, Mob (mobile object, includes NPCs/Enemies), or whatever. You can have 1, 2, 3, 4, 30, 200, 5000, or however many you want. And you know what? They all take the same amount of RAM and Resources. If a Bomb NPC takes 3kb of RAM. Three of them is still 3kb total. Not 9kb. Same thing with Housing wards. The 12 up at the same time take the same amount of RAM as One. Adding 12 more would not increase that load.

That's the whole POINT of using instantiation.

Now.. where things take extra memory and why you see slow downs with more stuff on your screen is when more stuff has to be rendered. Sorry to say but what you said does NOT apply. Your computer does not RENDER the entire game when you login. Only the zone and the instance of that zone (oh did you know every zone is instanced? Ever wonder why we have servers on dataservers? Each server is an instance of zones on a data server), and even then only the local part your character is in is Rendered on YOUR machine. Its used even then to load the model and texture once when you load in so that you don't have to load it for every mob, tree, and bush. Its done once and copied. That keeps the loading times down.

The wonderful thing about a server is.. it renders NOTHING. It keeps track of numbers indicating object IDs, object properties, object location, and orientation.

The only increased load would be the database storage. Which is text and numbers. The phone in your pocket could handle that.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Read up on what instance means in programming. I'm not using the term in a MMO sense. Even though they are closely related.

Anytime you copy an Object (Zone is an object), you're making an instance of it. If you see two mobs with the same name, model, and texture, they are instances of one another. Its a trick to call on a single file and use it more than once without it taking double the space in memory.

If they double the districts from 12 to 24, there is NO impact on memory due to instantiation. Only the storage in the database (simple numbers measured in bytes) that show location of items placed, orientation, and type as well as any characters in them.

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That usage of the word is irrelevant in this context. (And by that usage, zones are instances too, just a special type of instance.) Doubling the zones doubles the memory, because you don't just have twice the number of possible instances, you have twice the number of concurrently active instances.

Zones are up on the servers all the time, with everything in them loaded into working memory all the time. Instances (or non-zone instances if you prefer), are not. What makes instanced housing more efficient is the fact that once people leave their house, the instance is closed, and all that memory space is freed up to use for a different instance. In a shared space, whether that's a housing ward or Central Thanalan, the servers never get that chance to close that area and use the space for something else.


Even your mob comparison doens't really fit. That multiple mobs of the same type share the same name, model, and texture is irrelevant, because the server doesn't know about any of those details. To the server a mob is an object ID of some sort that it can map to a set of rules about how that mob acts. But it computes the mob's actions separately for each of them. Even where multiple mobs share a common ID and set of rules, they each have their own position, movement, actions, HP, aggro status and so on, and those are the sort of things the server is tracking.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

This right here ^ Everyone sits here attacking each other over opinions or think their being funny by pulling up ToS and missing the whole point.

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No point was missed with my post and I wasn't being funny. Re read what you posted, then what I posted. My post was was meant for correction purposes only. If you can't see what was being corrected, no clue what to tell you then.

And you were the one saying I was white knighting. I really find that funny.

Back on topic: Look at EQ 2 housing. They did that right and that game was released in 2004 ?

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

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I'm sorry, but I disagree with your whole bring up ToS just because I said we bought these houses, doesn't mean you have to go running to the nearest SE support page to try and prove that we own nothing. Done with this and moving on.

More so: I can't speak for EQ because I didn't stay in that game for long but Final Fantasy XI which was released back in 2003 had mog house and upon picking your nation you had the mog house right away.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

A small house can range anywhere from 30mil to 70mil, and we all know, people are going to pay that. Be it your opinion of, "Well their dumb enough to buy it at that price." that their choice sadly and people want a house that much. If they take a break, come back, house is gone, they only get back half that price of the plot, not the crazy price they paid.

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If they want a house that bad then they should also know both the pros and cons of owning a house if they willing to pay that much , considering a small house directly from the system only like 5 million. If they don't like how the housing system works why are they buying a house? Like others have said there more buyers then plots so if someone doesn't like how the housing works and doesn't want to deal with the 45 day reclaim there another person in line that wants a house and will be fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

I can't speak for EQ because I didn't stay in that game for long but Final Fantasy XI which was released back in 2003 had mog house and upon picking your nation you had the mog house right away.

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In EQ 2 you had instanced housing and paid weekly rent on it. If you failed to pay rent you lost access to the house, but didn't lose your items. You got your house back when you paid the rent again.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

/everything posted.

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I love this post

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Originally Posted by Lexia

If they want a house that bad then they should also know both the pros and cons of owning a house if they willing to pay that much , considering a small house directly from the system only like 5 million. If they don't like how the housing system works why are they buying a house? Like others have said there more buyers then plots so if someone doesn't like how the housing works and doesn't want to deal with the 45 day reclaim there another person in line that wants a house and will be fine with it.

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Thank you, hearing things like "The day I lose my house because I don't get on 45 days is my last day." is absolutely ridiculous to me when the rules are all laid out quite plainly. You can take valid issue with the system all you like but everyone choosing to have a house and then complaining is asinine. You don't need and never needed that house.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

In EQ 2 you had instanced housing and paid weekly rent on it. If you failed to pay rent you lost access to the house, but didn't lose your items. You got your house back when you paid the rent again.

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Instanced housing is the future. Wildstar perfected the MMO housing system.

FFXIV is stuck in the Stone Age by having housing be in zones.