Please Remove the Materia Melding Crafter Restriction

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Originally Posted by Melch

Worst economy system? In a game where everything can be bought and sold? Are you kidding me? This game offers you the most freedom I've ever seen in MMO. Yes it inflates the market, but guess what : it's still a game.

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This game allows for fewer items to be bought and sold than other MMO's I have played. So many items are untradeable.

I don't see how this is a problem in any way. The game is already streamlined as it is. Even if you're not in an FC with crafters getting a meld or two takes literally only the effort of typing "wtb x meld, tipping x gil" in shout, done. It's a minor inconvenience. It took 5 minutes to get my lore chest melded this morning, five minutes.

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

I don't see how this is a problem in any way. The game is already streamlined as it is. Even if you're not in an FC with crafters getting a meld or two takes literally only the effort of typing "wtb x meld, tipping x gil" in shout, done. It's a minor inconvenience. It took 5 minutes to get my lore chest melded this morning, five minutes.

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Just because something is easy and quick does not mean it's OK/good.

Imagine when you logged in, before you could play your character, you needed to solve a simple math problem. It would be easy, it'd only take a few seconds, but it would be absolutely pointless and pretty dumb.

I have had 0 issues getting my gear melded within minutes of wanting to get it melded. That doesn't mean that I think the process is currently a fun way of doing things.

It's a decent idea, but I think if you don't craft you can't be suggesting it. It's fairly easy to level crafters and if you don't want to then this is a decent way to get crafters going. It's a small tip people require. And if you don't want to pay then that's on you, OR find a friend to do it free. Most people just charge 1-10k tips, it's nothing

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

It's a decent idea, but I think if you don't craft you can't be suggesting it. It's fairly easy to level crafters and if you don't want to then this is a decent way to get crafters going. It's a small tip people require. And if you don't want to pay then that's on you, OR find a friend to do it free. Most people just charge 1-10k tips, it's nothing

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Definitely not leveling a crafter. I got my ALC to 26 and that was enough for me :\ Most people don't require tips, at least not that I have come across.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Just because something is easy and quick does not mean it's OK/good.

Imagine when you logged in, before you could play your character, you needed to solve a simple math problem. It would be easy, it'd only take a few seconds, but it would be absolutely pointless and pretty dumb.

I have had 0 issues getting my gear melded within minutes of wanting to get it melded. That doesn't mean that I think the process is currently a fun way of doing things.

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How is not easy and quick not good? Why does everything need to be "fun"? Like i said it's a minor "inconvenience" but not a problem since there's crafters quite literally everywhere. You said it yourself, you had 0 issues so why is this even a discussion? Having everything made even more accessible is not always a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

How is not easy and quick not good? Why does everything need to be "fun"? Like i said it's a minor "inconvenience" but not a problem since there's crafters quite literally everywhere. You said it yourself, you had 0 issues so why is this even a discussion? Having everything made even more accessible is not always a good thing.

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This is a discussion because it causes an inconvenience on the player for no purpose. Inconveniences can be OK for certain purposes such as slowing progression, creating story setting, establishing a narrative, creating a challenge etc -> However, this does nothing. It's a minor inconvenience with 0 purpose.

As for why does everything need to be fun? Because this is a game that we play to have fun. Even Yoshi said it himself:

http://odinwatch.com/wp-content/uplo...el-817x320.jpg
That said, I don't take everything Yoshi says as Gospel, but this is one thing that I agree with.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Just because something is easy and quick does not mean it's OK/good.

Imagine when you logged in, before you could play your character, you needed to solve a simple math problem. It would be easy, it'd only take a few seconds, but it would be absolutely pointless and pretty dumb.

I have had 0 issues getting my gear melded within minutes of wanting to get it melded. That doesn't mean that I think the process is currently a fun way of doing things.

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You mean like entering your randomized authenticator code. Plus the fact that you're admitting there's 0 issues but still want to change it is implying you're arguing for the sake of arguing. We don't need crafters to be even more devalued than they already are honestly.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

You mean like entering your randomized authenticator code. Plus the fact that you're admitting there's 0 issues but still want to change it is implying you're arguing for the sake of arguing. We don't need crafters to be even more devalued than they already are honestly.

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I have suggested numerous times a solution that doesn't devalue crafters. I am advocating that the dev team strive for fun over inconvenience for the sake of inconvenience. I am definitely not arguing for the sake of arguing, I am arguing because I think it is poor design and an unnecessary frustration.

Entering an authenticator code is an inconvenience with a purpose - added security. If they had that, but with 0 purpose, that would be what I am talking about.

My suggested solution, which adds to the value of crafters, adds to in-game economy and adds to convenience, is to have crafters create a meld-kit that can be sold and purchased on the market board similar to a glamour prism. Then if I can't find a crafter, or don't care to go shouting around, I can just pick one of these up off the MB and be on my way. Crafters get something new and desired to make.

Saw this a couple min ago...http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psh5gfiowc.png

update:

Talked to the guy in question. Here's the conversation:

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psy3fpodct.png

Now I don't want to say that ALL crafters charge 100k per meld. That most certainly isn't the case. Still, 100k seems quite a bit excessive. Some people do feel the need to pay so much for melds because a number like that is sure to not be ignored. This shouldn't have to happen at all.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

Saw this a couple min ago...http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psh5gfiowc.png

update:

Talked to the guy in question. Here's the conversation:

http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/...psy3fpodct.png

Now I don't want to say that ALL crafters charge 100k per meld. That most certainly isn't the case. Still, 100k seems quite a bit excessive. Some people do feel the need to pay so much for melds because a number like that is sure to not be ignored. This shouldn't have to happen at all.

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You should ask why he felt he needed to offer 100k for the service.

For all we know he did it because he wanted to get an exceedingly fast bite with an exepctioanlly high tip and doesn't really care about Gil either.

Hard to say what his reasoning is without further details.

You people are really pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

You people are really pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience.

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Conversely, "you people" are really pushing hard to keep a minor inconvenience.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Conversely, "you people" are really pushing hard to keep a minor inconvenience.

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I'm not pushing to keep it but I also don't think it something that really needed for the devs to take time to change.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I'm not pushing to keep it but I also don't think it something that really needed for the devs to take time to change.

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Considering I can get to the very last step of the process, but the button is simply grayed out, I can't imagine it's a lot of effort to change. As is you don't even need to have the class equipped to perform the meld, I imagine it's only making a check to see if the class is level 60 and nothing else. That's usually incredibly simple to change.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Hard to say what his reasoning is without further details.

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And I don't deny that. I can't say that the crafter that did the meld accepted that high tip either. Regardless, this is still an apt microcosm of the macrocosm.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

You people are really pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience.

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"pushing" and getting the issue seen is the only way things get changed around here. If you see something you want to have changed and don't say anything then don't be surprised if change never comes.

Simple solution to this is make self melding available with alexandrite (just like the relic was melded) and have the alexandrite able to be bought with X number of poetics or esos. Same rules apply as relic. Breaking materia doesn't break the alexandrite.

Crafters can craft and sell the alexandrite. Best of both worlds much like glamour prisms. If you are acrafter you can make them, if you are not you buy them from a crafter.

I do not think you should be able to just meld something without some type of prerequisite catalyst (alex) or qualifier (crafting level).

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Originally Posted by Altijacek

It's a decent idea, but I think if you don't craft you can't be suggesting it. It's fairly easy to level crafters and if you don't want to then this is a decent way to get crafters going. It's a small tip people require. And if you don't want to pay then that's on you, OR find a friend to do it free. Most people just charge 1-10k tips, it's nothing

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I enjoy crafting in the game, but the idea of "you don't craft so you can't suggest this idea" is at it's root a bad argument to make, and someone could then just turn around and argue the opposite, and we would get no-where. :S

I hope people will see this request for what it is, not a cry to be anti-social, but rather a needed QOL improvement that benefits a vast majority of players.

This system should be fun, but currently the process is anything but fun.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Crafters can craft and sell the alexandrite. Best of both worlds much like glamour prisms. If you are acrafter you can make them, if you are not you buy them from a crafter.

I do not think you should be able to just meld something without some type of prerequisite catalyst (alex) or qualifier (crafting level).

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You know this is the first post I've read in this thread that actually offers a suitable idea instead of just wanting or not wanting it.

As you said you shouldn't be allowed to just meld without either meeting the level or some other requirement.

You're method not only makes it that the crafters can either make money or still help friends and those people that don't wish to interact with others can grind out an alexandrite (or however many they decide to cost) to meld themselves.

It also gives a use to esoterics for those that don't gear many classes as well as making poetics useful instead of completely useless like they are now.

I'd be all for this idea.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

You people are really pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience.

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It's feedback that we want to provide. :)

I can understand peoples adversity to change, but here we can tell the developers our feedback to various systems, and provide feedback on other ideas as they come up, so that the developers can make the best decision with their development time.

From reading this thread, I think the argument breaks down into two categories:

1. We should change this system to be more open to all players and remove this as an inconvenience.
2. We shouldn't make this change because it's just a small inconvenience.

The problem I have is I haven't seen a good reason not to make this change, and the arguments that it brings people together and makes the world social seem like a stretch, being that this isn't the pillar which all social interaction in this game is based, and if it was, we'd have bigger issues.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Simple solution to this is make self melding available with alexandrite (just like the relic was melded) and have the alexandrite able to be bought with X number of poetics or esos. Same rules apply as relic. Breaking materia doesn't break the alexandrite.

Crafters can craft and sell the alexandrite. Best of both worlds much like glamour prisms. If you are acrafter you can make them, if you are not you buy them from a crafter.

I do not think you should be able to just meld something without some type of prerequisite catalyst (alex) or qualifier (crafting level).

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Not a bad idea ether.

I would rather have crafters used for advanced materia exclusively, while allowing everyone to meld on the set slots. But this could work as well. :)

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Simple solution to this is make self melding available with alexandrite (just like the relic was melded) and have the alexandrite able to be bought with X number of poetics or esos. Same rules apply as relic. Breaking materia doesn't break the alexandrite.

Crafters can craft and sell the alexandrite. Best of both worlds much like glamour prisms. If you are acrafter you can make them, if you are not you buy them from a crafter.

I do not think you should be able to just meld something without some type of prerequisite catalyst (alex) or qualifier (crafting level).

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I, for one, actually like this idea.

Alexandrites can be farmed via mysterious maps through a daily quest (each maps get you 5 alexandrites). The said maps can also be purchased from Auriana for 75 poetics. So this would be too easy.

Instead, Alexandrites can be used as the main recipe (Much like glamour prism) to create a single use item that can be used for melding, instead of asking a crafter to meld for them.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

And I don't deny that. I can't say that the crafter that did the meld accepted that high tip either. Regardless, this is still an apt microcosm of the macrocosm.

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A singular example is hardly a microcosm within a macrocosm, especially if we don't know why the player felt compelled to offer such a grandiose sum of Gil for the meld.

If you had multiple examples of such an incident with similar rational, then we can start calling it a microcosm.

I just feel using this single example as an argument for your position is just weakening your position overall.

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Will agree that I like the Alex idea for a "meld Prism" of sorts, though the question then becomes if it's (1) worth the crafters time to make and (2) would people actually buy it if the price of such a coincidence is too high due to market demand?

I do like the idea though.

IMO to make it fair let all classes meld ONLY the open slot materia while only crafter can overmeld materia.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

A singular example is hardly a microcosm within a macrocosm, especially if we don't know why the player felt compelled to offer such a grandiose sum of Gil for the meld.

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All I'm saying is that this stuff does happen, despite the number claims in this thread that it does not. My position is quite simple: no one should have to shout for basic melds. No one should feel compelled to pay a tip for basic melds -or- feel the need to offer extravagant tips just to get the attention of someone to perform a meld. This is a textbook microcosm. Let's not argue semantics, the moment we start doing that is when there's no more worthwhile discussion to be had.

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Originally Posted by Eul

IMO to make it fair let all classes meld ONLY the open slot materia while only crafter can overmeld materia.

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This is more or less exactly what we're asking for.

You just want to make your life simpler and get the benefits of those who leveled crafting classes without the need to do so.

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My position is quite simple: no one should have to shout for basic melds. No one should feel compelled to pay a tip for basic melds -or- feel the need to offer extravagant tips just to get the attention of someone to perform a meld.

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Heaven forbid that you actually need some sort of interaction with another player in a MMO.

Compelled to pay for basic melds and baiting using extravagant tips? You're exaggerating since if you have the patience to wait around 5 minutes, there's always a kind-hearted crafter around.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

This was the first thread when you look at time of posting. That's really beside the point.

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My apologies, I should have checked. It's just hard trying to follow a conversation that's going on in two different threads.

I still haven't seen anyone saying they have been unable to obtain melds, nor having I seen anyone saying they've been forced to pay an exorbitant price because all the crafters are cashing in and gouging them.
I have seen a lot of crafters saying they are happy to do this for free.

Sockets are a nice bonus, it would be a shame if all the complaints over a little inconvenience led to them being removed (i.e. not put on future gear).

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

Not a bad idea ether.

I would rather have crafters used for advanced materia exclusively, while allowing everyone to meld on the set slots. But this could work as well. :)

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Advanced Materia melding has rather limited use outside crafted gear itself and tends to be extremely costly. It really isn't much of a perk.

The more I think on it the more it just seems like only a few aspects should be revised.

1. Melding Materia to slots in armor should be be revised to:
"Slotting Materia"
It should no longer require a crafter and should be done by everyone.
It should no longer require Carbonized Matter.
Upgrading the select item/piece should either:
A. Keep the slotted Materia.
B. Refund the Materia

"Unslotting Materia" should not destroy the materia.
But I understand WHY it gets destroyed.
So I will simply say...
I feel it shouldn't be destroyed. But not having them break/get destroyed might hurt the market.
But...should Materia really be as expensive as it is now?

2. Overmelding Materia
Should require a Crafter.
Should require Carbonized Matter.
Basically works as it currently does.

Reason:
Slotting Materia is pretty much just filling a socket/equipping a piece of gear.
The infamous: "Ball in a hole." Saying.

Overmelding is creating/adding a slot that was never there & placing materia into it to boot.
Which would dictate needing a Catalyst (I assume to forge the new slot & squeeze in the new materia), and exceptional skill with that type of armor/item to pull it off.

Again, Overmelding isn't a huge amount of value outside the really expensive progression gear that most crafters don't have the gear to make and for crafting gear itself which is a necessity for making the higher level recipes. In both cases its extremely expensive, packed with RNG and as a result not much of a pay off for crafters.

Again, I think the issue here is ensuring crafters feel they are getting a worthwhile return on time investment, which frankly in HW is even more extreme than it was in ARR due to the Scrip system. Just taking things away is pretty unfair. Even for people who enjoy it, they want to feel adequately rewarded for their efforts.

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Originally Posted by Eul

IMO to make it fair let all classes meld ONLY the open slot materia while only crafter can overmeld materia.

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I can get behind this 1000000000%. Why haven't they implement this yet...

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Originally Posted by Belhi

they want to feel adequately rewarded for their efforts.

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The way you put it here you make it sound as if the only "reason" to leave melding solely in the hands of crafters is because the crafters want to have their egos stroked. I doubt that's the case as several crafters are on record saying that this is a really inconsequential matter. We need more than this for a reason to not implement a system that allows us socket our own materia. The "It'll hurt the crafters' feelings" argument just doesn't cut it for me.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

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The problem is the crafters are already mostly left in the dust. I haven't bothered with melding etc, and I don't buy crafter gear, so already gatherers/crafters are getting almost nothing from me (they're getting more now I'm levelling crafters). In keeping melding available only to crafters, it helps to create a synergy between crafter and combatant, instead of keeping the 2 mostly separate. I'm all for more ways of encouraging crafters and gatherers to do more for combat players, since after all, we're all players. Combatants also provide mats for crafters. It helps keep things all working together in synergy if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by RhaegarFFXIFenrir

The way you put it here you make it sound as if the only "reason" to leave melding solely in the hands of crafters is because the crafters want to have their egos stroked. I doubt that's the case as several crafters are on record saying that this is a really inconsequential matter. We need more than this for a reason to not implement a system that allows us socket our own materia. The "It'll hurt the crafters' feelings" argument just doesn't cut it for me.

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While I agree that there hasn't really been a compelling argument to not implement your suggested change, I also believe there hasn't been a compelling argument on your side of the fence either. The only argument I've seen on the two threads I've browsed has been "it's inconvenient / not fun" and "lore from VII, etc." and the lore reason is a bad reason because lore can be twisted to suit the rhetoric from either side without being a proper answer.

So, its your suggestion, give me a better reason to change an already existing, functional, minimal impact system into something that reduces interaction with the player base just for the sake of convenience because that just doesn't cut it for me either.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Honestly how hard is it to request a meld from one of your FC members.

Why dont we just make crafting utterly useless while we are at it.

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It isn't already utterly useless? Besides, what are you doing out here anyways, go back to the workshop and make me my glamours!

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Conversely, "you people" are really pushing hard to keep a minor inconvenience.

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No, you're pushing hard to remove a minor inconvenience. We're pushing hard to preserve crafting as a meaningful pursuit.

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Psst....level your crafters :) Problem solved.

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I dislike responses like these. Something about it just feels.... snobbish, and it is not a very fair statement.

The simple fact is, not everyone is into crafting. Its has a high potential for gain. However, in order to see any of that gain. You've gotta be 'all in'. You can't half-ass crafting and expect to be a gillionaire. That means leveling all your crafting jobs to get all those valuable cross-class skills at minimum. Nevermind the gil investment needed for BIS if you ever want to reliably HQ any of those master-tier recipes.

Yes, you can eventually make a lot of gil, but the road to get to that comfortable position is much, much grindier than getting any Disciple or WAR or Magic jobs to 60. A least in my opinion.

I don't see anything wrong with allowing everyone to meld materia. Add some additional caveats to soothe people bruised egos if you want. Allowing everyone to meld materia is not going to kill crafting. SE did a good job of that already with scrips.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

I dislike responses like these. Something about it just feels.... snobbish, and it is not a very fair statement.

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No it's not snobbish. Those people earned the ability and right to meld. You didn't. It's really pretty simple. You want to meld, level a crafter. If not get a crafter to meld for you and stop expecting to get something for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

I dislike responses like these. Something about it just feels.... snobbish, and it is not a very fair statement.

The simple fact is, not everyone is into crafting. Its has a high potential for gain. However, in order to see any of that gain. You've gotta be 'all in'. You can't half-ass crafting and expect to be a gillionaire. That means leveling all your crafting jobs to get all those valuable cross-class skills at minimum. Nevermind the gil investment needed for BIS if you ever want to reliably HQ any of those master-tier recipes.

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But we're talking about melding though, not crafting for a living. Quite frankly unless you've put both zero effort into making money (incidential or otherwise) and put effort into spending it, you can get your crafters to 60 via storebought items and leves. Less so if you have gathering as well. That's what it means to be a self-sustainable player, and melding is no exception to it.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Simple solution to this is make self melding available with alexandrite
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Crafters can craft and sell the alexandrite. Best of both worlds much like glamour prisms. If you are acrafter you can make them, if you are not you buy them from a crafter.

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Not sure that it needs to be alexandrite specifically, but I like this idea. There could be a "refined carbonized matter" recipe. Takes a carbonized matter and, let's say a dark matter cluster, makes an item that works the same as carbonized matter of the same grade but anyone can use it to meld. Then any pure DOW/DOM player can just buy those (they're buying carbonized matter already) and the market can decide how much it's worth to not have to be/find a crafter. Meld requests would work the same way as they do now, as an alternative that's easier to do on a one-off basis.

Admittedly, this would probably result in class-specific items like the glamour prisms in order to retain some semblance of the "you have to be that class" aspect, but eh.