You're the type of person who would ride a supersport bike in race regulation without any prior riding experience aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by ViolentDjango
I'm sorry, but no...
I started playing FFXI in back in December of 2003 and didn't stop going back to it until about 6 months ago. I have, at one point, played every job at level 75 and several at level 90 and I will say boldly that leveling taught me NOTHING about end game.
The things you learned for endgame were things they taught you IN endgame, and after Square started building abilities and game functionality around endgame, it just got worse.
I leveled up learning skill chains and mana conservation, but by the time you hit 75 (And eventually 90), none of that mattered. You were only casting at specific times, doing specific spells, and watching for specific things to stun. Things that were only barely practiced while leveling up. Maybe early on you had to learn to save your TP for stuns when goblins could level all of Yhoator with one bomb, but even that was phased out by 2004.
The argument isn't a blind claim that you don't learn how to play your job over the course of leveling up -- you definitely learn certain things. The argument is that you don't HAVE to spend months leveling up to appreciate how your class is supposed to work and what your abilities do.
Especially with how bare bones things are -- the game tells you exactly what an ability does and wikis tell you exactly the percentages the effects have. There's no need to investigate and develop a feel for how things work when you know the actual numbers behind it.
You can spout years of experience all you want, I'm sure a lot of us can -- 10 years of Ragnarok Online (across several custom servers), 8 years of Final Fantasy XI, several months of WoW, years and years of Diablo: but it doesn't matter.
End game is always significantly more complex and unwieldy than the leveling game, and unless the game makes a habit of hiding things from you (Which early FFXI did), then its very easy to research your abilities and learn what you're supposed to do.
Good players do that anyway, even if they took 2 years to level up to cap. Bad players don't, and that's why they are bad players. And that's why forcing them to level up slower isn't going to change anything.
Like I said before, none of us who actually aim to have any amount of success are going to be running solely with completely random players -- so the power leveling issue doesn't directly effect anyone other than the people who PL and don't take the time to learn what they are supposed to be doing. Its a non-issue that's being overhyped, especially considering Yoshida has already expressed interest in fixing the issue because it hinders part of his expected time frame for leveling up.
That aside, let's not muddle an already overhyped issue with more nonsense. People who want to learn to play a game properly do. You can't force that down their throats -- bad players will be bad players, whether you force them through a 3 months long, tutorial where "This is how you play your job" instructions pop up in bright red and yellow letters or not.
People who -want- to be good players will seek out the information they need to do so -- because that's just how it works. That's why we have the phrase "ignorance is bliss." Because some people are perfectly content with not knowing any better, and they're going to stay that way no matter how you try to spin it.
Yoshida' stance on PL and why it is less than ideal.
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10-11-2011, 04:19 PMVanguard319You're the type of person who would ride a supersport bike in race regulation without any prior riding experience aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by ViolentDjango
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10-11-2011, 05:51 PMBuddhsie
When I first started my character (a couple days before 1.18) it took me 2 1/2 weeks to get my first 50. This was when necrologos and the like were nerfed, honestly it didn't take that long to rank up before, and powerleveling was still possible (very quick 1-30).
Regardless of how quick it is to level up now, the real grind is the materia system. Think of it as meriting, I know I spent countless hours meriting my jobs in FFXI and just like now, you're nothing without them. I foresee a quickfix in 1.19a for the PL system anyways, so meh. -
10-11-2011, 06:01 PMVahzlHave been back in the game a week, playing 5-6 hours a night and a good 12 hours per day on the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by indira
Have yet to spot a single bot. Where are you seeing them "running around"? -
10-11-2011, 06:02 PMBetelgeuzahI don't particularly mind this, but I think leveling progression can offer things that materia progression can not. The progression does not happen only with the increase of stats and equipment, but also by unlocking milestones and going to new previously "inaccessible" areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddhsie
Materia progression is a great extension but not a replacement. -
10-11-2011, 06:08 PMBuddhsieQuote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
What stops people from doing that along the way? I can't realistically see anyone sitting down for 20 hours straight being PL'd to 50. You're more likely to see someone doing the majority of their leveling through PLing, and doing various other things like exploring, experimenting, crafting in the time outside being powerleveled. Sure the most extreme case may be that someone starts a character and 20 hours later is 50 without touching a monster, but realistically it would be segmented and spread out in couple hour patches here and there. The system works both ways, you can't claim it's all bad when not all people who utilise it abuse it. -
10-11-2011, 06:08 PMVahzlI disagree, levelling just offers experience, Materia offers diversity to your class. Yes once you hit 50 you can enter all zones and areas available right now, but you still need to do your quest chains, and actually take part in content, no matter how trivialised it might be now. There is currently no way to work around the games questing or content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Exp is exp, no matter where it comes from.
Myself for example, I quest and explore in the day time, and on my lunch at work, and then in the evening, I trade off power levelling with friends, and last night I went out to do leve linking too. The majority of players will do the same, as while power levelling is fast, it's also boring when you do it too much.
Stop treating it like everyone is power levelling to 50, as this is only in very extreme cases. People usually get to 30 at the most, then get back to the grind. -
10-11-2011, 06:22 PMBetelgeuzahNothing. The majority of the time is spent grinding Materia however.Quote:
What stops people from doing that along the way?
The progression you're describing is over faster than you can snap your fingers. That's the point. If you don't want to play this game for more than few weeks and then quit, sure you can be alright with that. However, not all of us are like that. We want to play this game for a long time, but at least I don't want to spend the majority of that time grinding Materia that offers no real milestones nor diverse progression. -
10-11-2011, 06:34 PMAlexandrious
If their gonna do this crap Yoshida may as well give new players an option to pick a class upon character creation and start it at Rank 50. If he really wants people to just get to endgame content quickly, screwing everything low to mid end and not help them learn their damn jobs then may as well do things Guildwars style and give the friggen option. People are doing in what looks to be less then 2 weeks what took me and many others 4-6 months to friggen do.
Such utter fail.... -
10-11-2011, 07:10 PMRinsuiSo what "experience" does powerleveling offer?Quote:
I disagree, levelling just offers experience
What does it teach new players?
That it's best to go afk while others feed you with undeserved EXP? -
10-11-2011, 07:12 PMVahzlThe same experience points as party based levelling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
Honestly people, if you want these threads to actually progress in discussion stop being pedantic and facetious (can't believe how many times I have used those words in the last 3 threads on this pointless topic).
If you want to discuss it, stop the crap and be direct, because all you are doing is tiring the conversation. -
10-11-2011, 07:17 PMBetelgeuzah
Progressing levels allows you to unlock milestones- so you have things to look forward to. That's not "just experience".
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10-11-2011, 07:20 PMRinsuiAyayay. Seems like you actually have no real answer to that question...Quote:
Honestly people, if you want these threads to actually progress in discussion stop being pedantic and facetious (can't believe how many times I have used those words in the last 3 threads on this pointless topic).
If you want to discuss it, stop the crap and be direct, because all you are doing is tiring the conversation.
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10-11-2011, 07:24 PMVahzlI answered your facetious question directly. If you have further to ask, expand on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinsui
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10-11-2011, 09:36 PMViolentDjangoYou're the kind of person who makes ridiculous real-world analogies to try and refute viable assessments of game design, aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanguard319
Final Fantasy XI was never a game designed around any amount of extreme complexity, and FFXIV is even simpler. You can't try to compare glorified number crunching and dice rolling to activities that require physical prowess and experience. This analogy would be less ridiculous if we were talking about a game like Monster Hunter or Dark/Demon Souls, where developing a feel for the games mechanics through experience was important -- but its not. Its an incredibly flashy D20 game, like all RPGs are. When you can stand in front of a creature, swing, and miss with an axe while standing right next to a creature you're playing a numbers game, not one that requires any amount of acquired prowess.
Sure it helps, but its something you can learn through research -- none of the best MMO players rely completely on "Well this cooldown -feels- like it'll be up in 2 seconds." No, people who play MMOs and games like LoL and who are serious about it can quote you specific damage numbers and cooldown times for abilities, as well as how they change -- because that's the stuff you use in end game.
And all of that can be researched.
No, I'm not the "type of person" you're referring to. I'm the "type of person" who doesn't care about things that have no effect on his gaming experience -- and other people's level don't effect me at all. I've restarted my character after every major update in order to re-experience the leveling system and its changes, because I enjoy leveling up in well designed, interesting gameplay systems. If your game is fun to play, you don't have to worry about people trying to rush through it. Some people WILL, because that's how some people are -- just like how some people think they are smart enough to be wise asses but really aren't -- but at the end of the day the only people who need to be worried about PL's long term effect on the game are the Developers, and if they are paranoid about it they are the ones in power to do something about it.
Mindlessly berating people for things that have no effect on you and pretending you have a real point outside of "Well, they are ruining the experience for themselves" <-- Read: The only real concern any non-PL player should have about people PL'ing, isn't going to change the fact that the only people who's opinion really matters about the issue is the Development teams.
And since they already said they want to slow people's leveling down, (Note, they want to slow down the time frame for leveling, not remove Power Leveling, as Yoshida expressed wanting friends to be able to work together regardless of level) I don't see why people feel so compelled to pressure this issue.
EDIT:
My only problem with people calling this a problem is that they are muddling the issue. No one gives a damn if you think PL'ers are cheating -- they aren't. The real reason PL'ing could be a problem is a substantial, worthwhile one, and most of my posts have been restating over and over what the REAL issue here is.
The problem with these forums is that people keep muddling real, substantial explanations for problems with their own personal opinion. You can have an opinion, and I'll respect it, but the simple fact is that Power leveling is not a danger to players other than those who get power leveled, and the only people who need to be concerned with that are the Devs, because it is a function of their design and ability to keep people playing the game.
But sure, let's muddle the issue more. I'm starting to like how silly this all is. -
10-11-2011, 10:29 PMPayadopa
I must admit, this kind of PLing seems a bit over the top to me. I'd prefer a level synch over it, to be honest.
I was in a EXP party a few days back and we had so much fun with linking and exp chains but the last few minutes, to speed up the exp gain for a member who had to go the next few minutes, one member turned into a lvl 50 whatever and we still got 500+ exp within mere seconds (rest of us was 35+). With no effort. No challenge. I don't like this mindset. I want my content callenging. :( Rushing through is boring.
Even grind content should offer fun. If you can't do it and offer people to legally just rush through to 'the better stuff' then there is something wrong with the way the game is designed, I'm sorry. :(
[Level synch], [can I have it?] -
10-11-2011, 10:31 PMNakiamiie
I do not agree with Betelgeuzah. First, only a small portion of people have access to PL friends to do the job for them from rank 1 to 50 (or whatever ranks). Second, there are so many classes out there (and you can't PL Disciplines of the Hand and Land), I really doubt someone will have all it's classes PL to rank 50. Yes, having one class brought up to rank 50 by PL is happening and just like Yoshi-P said: it's to have friends play together. It has always been a problem for me in FFXI, I was always 20 or 30 levels lower than my friends and could never come with them. They had to level sync down with me and since I took ages to level up... I never actually saw rank 50 in FFXI. Not everyone is a hardcore gamer and I'd really like to see endgame in FFXIV with my casual play time. More than that, I want to enjoy endgame with my friends.
In the case I get a PL, it will most likely be for 1 class only for when I want to play with my friends. I do want to level up my other classes myself, combined with Disciplines of the Land and Hand I also have to level up, having 1 class to level 50 is absolutely not breaking my game experience or making low/mid-level content useless. Quite the contrary!
That said, I'm really glad the devs had the boldness to do what they with the claiming system to allow PL and have friends enjoy content together. It's a game, it's for entertainment. I don't want it to become another job if I have to put all my game hours into a single thing to be able to catch with my hardcore friends -- so, PL is fine. -
10-11-2011, 11:23 PMEsk
I still don't get why People want to Spend hours Grinding Mobs over and over..
I'd rather see them put lots of work into a huge amount of content and story.. -
10-12-2011, 12:09 AMTravesty
Do people understand that if you mostly remove leveling from an RPG, what you're left with is an Adventure game? Leveling is an integral part of RPGs. Without it, they don't fit the genre. Almost every game has progression of whatever thing or person you're playing, but games in the RPG genre are very specific about what form that progression primarily takes, and that is defined levels. Having a way that those are bypassed so easily really threatens to knock the game out of the genre.
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10-12-2011, 12:13 AMmmccoy
Content =/= Grinding. Experience Low Level CONTENT? Mid-Level Content? What stops them from going back and doing the quest anyway? Why does everyone who argues against PL WANT people to grind? Because you did for 6 months? Get over yourself. Grinding =\= CONTENT! If this was WoW (and you better believe we are comparing, we are always comparing) I invite a friend (most likely RL) and we link our accounts and blast through the levels. If this was rift I would invite a friend and again blast through the levels. I run low level characters for my bro all the time through instances. He does the same for me. We enjoy the REAL Content together. I honestly can't see how this is a big deal for you antagonist.
If this was any other MMO this would be a non issue. There isn't much difference and I can't understand why THIS player base has such an issue with THIS of all things. Why not complain about something that matters, like the LACK of DRIVING content. Stuff that keeps you going. Storyline that sends you from place to place. Has you doing REAL stuff. This game so far is an empty shell. There is no content to be missed from PL.
*Edit* There is only one thing that will solve this PL problem. Instead of making exp gain and leveling Grind based, make it quest based. Setup up the game to have quest hubs and greater storyline questing. This is something wow perfected and every other mmo KNOWS this. This is how Rift does it, this is how SWTOR does it. This is how every MMO out there does it. They don't do this for no reason. It sets EXP gain dependent on quest and story progression. Grinding is an archaic form of leveling that simply doesn't work. So you can argue for or against PL all you want, it doesn't make a bit of difference guys. The game is inert. -
10-12-2011, 12:48 AMViolentDjangoRPGs are about progression and development -- leveling isn't the only way to achieve that. Its possible to have an RPG without any sort of distinguishable leveling or experience system that works perfectly, developers use find it easier to develop and balance level-based systems in MMOs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
The only prerequisite of an RPG is that the player be able to develop and progress in some way, fashion, or form. No one wants to remove the leveling system, however, even as it exists currently FFXIV could maintain its current leveling pace and still offer mindful plays a variety of tasks to develop their character further even after hitting level cap.
Spiritbonding gear, leveling crafts, harvesting materials for crafting superior weaponry, defeating bosses to acquire better gear or materials for higher tier equipment or materia -- these are are ways which characters can seek to develop themselves and progress farther into the games world.
Exploring new areas and dungeons, defeating new enemies, finding new areas and items -- these are also ways, completely independent of a need for a level system, in which players can seek to develop their characters.
We've just been trained to expect that leveling up is the end-all, be-all of character development and progression so people are blinding themselves to the fact that the game already presents you with tons of different alternatives that make leveling a combat class quickly a completely irrelevant issue. For people who want to be the best at the game, there are still crafts to be level, materia to be forged, gear to be augmented, and bosses to be defeated -- and more content as such will be added.
The leveling system, as I have said multiple times, is just a crutch to funnel the player base through a specific development time frame. It does nothing for YOU as a player, its for the Development team -- it always has been. That's why MMOs make characters level so slowly, typically, because it allows them more time to develop content while you grind out levels towards mid-level content.
And that's perfectly fine if you enjoy it -- its there for you to do still.
However, there is plenty to do for people who don't want to strictly and slowly level combat classes. Frankly, my original plan was to not bother with any of the combat content in the game and focus on building an economic empire -- there are players who are going to focus on that, and that will afford them significant amounts of content and development regardless of how many combat classes they level or how quickly they do it.
You can't discount that there is more to an RPG than leveling nor that the leveling system is almost always the least significant or interesting component of any RPG. -
10-12-2011, 01:05 AMTravestySorry, but no. That is simply wrong. If that were the case, nearly every game would be an RPG. There are almost no games, except arcade fighters, where there is zero progression of the role you're taking. Even scrolling shooters have progression.Quote:
The only prerequisite of an RPG is that the player be able to develop and progress in some way, fashion, or form.
There seems to be this misconception that leveling has to be the systematic grinding of enemies for incessant hours upon end. That is not the case at all. In FFXIV, currently, it might be the case, but that is because the game is poorly designed right now, not because that's the way it has to be. What players need to be encouraging SE to do instead of limiting the role that leveling plays in what is supposed to be an RPG, is to develop content that changes leveling from the grinding of mobs to an experience players want to have. They can do that through side quests, more frequent dungeons, more story missions, or even a revamp of battle and enemies that makes killing them less repetitive. All of these are better solutions than creating a system in an RPG where leveling largely falls by the wayside. -
10-12-2011, 01:14 AMMishakai
I will argue one point of the OP, got too much to do at work today to reply to the whole thing.
About players being able to "skip the economy til level 50". I see that as a great thing, and here is why.
I have gone from level 30 to level 34 since the 9th, casually doing leve quests and other side quests. The issue however IS the economy. There seem to be plenty of crafters out there, yet nobody is making the new gear for the mid ranges. So, exactly what am I skipping here?? All the crafters are making gear for lvl45+, I have yet to see a set of steel plated jackboots on Mysidia for sale (and since nobody obviously knows what they are, they are the "new" level 31 greaves for disciples of war. Not a single pair.. nowhere... Even asked around Ul'dah and couldn't find anybody to take the time to make me a pair.
So the point is.. There is NO MIDLEVEL ECONOMY TO SKIP. -
10-12-2011, 01:21 AMTravestyYou may be right about the fact that there's really no low level economy, but the problem with the new system is that instead of fixing the game economy, they're just letting you skip it if you get PLd. That means it's still broken. What they could have done instead, for example, is put in place a capped level 35ish raid with lucrative rewards. That all of a sudden wuld have resulted in a flood of the new level 30ish gear appearing on the markets because there would be demand. That's just 1 example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishakai
They need to be fixing the broken things. Just letting people skip them is poor design and ultimately only leads to more problems. -
10-12-2011, 01:32 AMMishakaiWell, yes you have a point. If there was stuff to skip, then skipping it would be bad. However, there really isn't a whole lot going on at the mid levels. There is some decent lower level stuff now with Shposhae, and the level 50 content is starting to show up, yet there is still a rather large gap in the mid ranges. Part of the issue now is most people who have jobs in the mid ranges, also have a capped job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
I look at it this way..
Shposhae = love for lower levels.
Ifrit + Beast strongholds = love for high levels
Power levelling = love for mid levels. -
10-12-2011, 02:37 AMViolentDjangoEvery RPG's leveling system is a pacing system... Its a system specifically designed to make you do a specific thing a specific number of times to give you specific rewards and keep you involved in the game until a certain point. Its a design to circumvent that you can't put a fluid story and persist world into a cluster of zones, so rather than having you walk along a specifically guided path they generate a topography outline for skill benchmarks that force you to be able to do certain things by the time you get to certain places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
Hence, the leveling system.
You can take any modern or classic RPG's world map and generate a radial gradient representing the level you're supposed to be when you get to places, then draw a line through the story's progression. and see a clear, steady increase in the levels required.
The leveling system exists to allow players a sense of freedom while simultaneously controlling their decision making. Its the same thing its used for in MMOs. Leveling systems are specifically designed to force you to be in a certain place for a specific amount of time, and the experience curve is designed so that the development team can map out the exact amount of time and effort a player will have to exert to reach level cap.
Leveling systems were created because they were necessary to achieve what we consider to be the classic RPG -- but plenty of modern RPGs prove that it is in no way necessary to achieve a potent, quality experience. The Elder Scrolls series is a good example -- It possesses a leveling system, but conceivably you can completely remove it from the game and circumvent the the entire skill level mechanic with a more prowess demanding system and still end up with almost the exact same quality of experience. The game would -still- be an RPG.
Yes. By my definition most games become RPGs because all games are role-playing games. You're assuming the control of a character in a fictional setting. The reason why leveling exists specifically in the "RPG" we know of is that it was the first instance of allowing players conceivably feelings of exploration -- levels allowed developers to dynamically design non-linear worlds without fearing a player stumbling upon the final boss accidentally. This is what made games like Zelda so revolutionary -- Zelda fought for a long time to properly claim its rightful title of "Action RPG" because people felt that leveling was a key component of the classic RPG -- its not. The story and freedom are. The ability to develop and define you character are. Action-Adventure, Action RPG, and RPG games all share this attribute are are effective all "RPGs" in the same sense we mean when we say MMORPG. The different is, the closer you get to the Action side, the more linear things tend to become because developers don't like awarding players too much freedom due to avoid potential problems with story development.
All of that aside, FFXIV is not an exception to the mundane nature of leveling systems -- its right in line with the current standard that many games refuse to evacuate. Like I keep saying, its not a bad thing, but it is [NOT] needed. Its just something we've come to expect and identify with -- but accepting that its just a status quo, and not a necessity, is the first step to convincing development teams to aspire for something more organic and universally substantial.
But sure, keep over complicating things.
No one's talking about "creating a system in an RPG where leveling largely falls by the wayside." Many people who are "fighting for PL'ing" just don't see what the big deal is because its NOT A BIG DEAL. Leveling isn't a necessity, it doesn't add anything to the story nor the overall experience unless you LIKE LEVELING. In which case, you're free to invest your time in doing so. But you shouldn't feel you're obligated to force your style of play on other people -- options are significantly better than favoritism to retro systems.
And this is coming from someone who enjoys leveling. The Devs will fix whatever they feel they need to fix, and that's all there is to it. -
10-12-2011, 02:39 AMyukikaze_yanagi
One: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ish%29/page152 last post
two :http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ish%29/page154 first one
Enjoy your Pl madness. It last short -
10-12-2011, 02:42 AMViolentDjangoNo shit. We've been saying that for several pages -- they already said they were going to make modifications to put things in line with their views -- you folks just won't let up with you end of the world rants...Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
I think people panicked less over Y2K... -
10-12-2011, 02:51 AMFNXIVThank you mam or sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
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10-12-2011, 02:52 AMDenmoWhat really got to me was apparent disillusionment of players who wanted to think that the new EXP rates were the way the game was going to stay, and how people like me were "spoiling their fun."Quote:
Originally Posted by ViolentDjango
Get it while you can, and have fun being bored when there's no high level content left for you to play. -
10-12-2011, 03:05 AMTravesty
Django, I'm not gonna reply to much of what you wrote, because I lack the time, energy, or motivation, and because we now know this issue is going to be resolved. That said I am gonna reply to one point.
This:
Is just a really dumb position to take. If that's your definition of RPG, it's too wide-ranging to even argue against, which is probably how you want it anyway. I think 95% of the rest of the gaming community would disagree since you're essentially saying no RPG genre exists. Your argument is that the RPG genre should just be "Games." My argument back to you would be that just because RPG might be a poor label for the genre because "role playing" is such an amorphous term doesn't mean the genre itself lacks definition. Historically, of the games people consider RPGs, you will find extremely few if any that don't have some kind of numerical leveling system. Most people consider Zelda an adventure game, not an RPG, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by ViolentDjango
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10-12-2011, 03:06 AMyukikaze_yanagiDon't get me wrong. I don't have any issues with PLing, but as is now it's foolish. It's stupid having a pl INSIDE the party and look it doing all the job without do nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ViolentDjango
In my opinion, PL should be a favor, not the main source of exp like people is abusing now. Depending how things will be after 1.19a, i'll not complain at all -
10-12-2011, 03:30 AMViolentDjangoI don't have a problem with people having a problem with PL'ing, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi
I'm just tired of people complaining about things and citing reasons like "it ruins the game" when it has no effect on anything. You can dislike it, that's fine. You're perfectly fine to have your own opinion about anything you want -- its when people start to wrap completely neutral things in "good" vs. "evil" caliber arguments that have no base that it becomes annoying.
You'd think a clear explanation for why these systems exist would help people, but apparently folks are so rooted in their beliefs that they can't accept that video games always have been and always will be designed to more or less manipulate you into investing time and becoming attached. Its entertainment -- its designed to keep you hooked as long as possible, because that's how they make money -- and to do that, they abuse the human condition by using things such as the hedonic treadmill.
Every definable video game would be completely different if that weren't the case. -
10-12-2011, 03:47 AMGrudgebringer
Not worried one bit.. most of these players being PL'd are for subs or new players that will know nothing about their job whatsoever. Do you really think a GLA that went from 1-50 in less than a week will have the slightest clue on how to tank any end game content? People will soon be able to tell who PL'd and who didn't.
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10-12-2011, 03:58 AMViolentDjangoI wouldn't put any serious bets on that if I were you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Grudgebringer
That aside, no one who's playing matters right now... The community's going to at least triple when the PS3 version hits stores.. most people I know who wanted in were holding out for that anyway. -
10-12-2011, 04:11 AMTeknoman
From Reinhart's translation thread:
プロデューサ/ディレクタの吉田です。
Producer/Director Yoshida here,
遅くなってしまい恐縮ですが、吉田からも補足させてください。
Sorry for the delay but let me comment on this as well.
PLは本当に個々人によって単語の捉え方も違いますし、
先行するプレイヤーと、後発のプレイヤーの距離感を縮めるために、
ある程度許容するという方針にブレはありません。
それはあくまでボランティアだったり、PLする側のプレイ時間を消費することで、
仲間や家族、友達のために善意で行う行為だと思っているからです。
There are different feelings towards PL depending on the players view on it but the goal where having new players come closer to older players have not changed.
I believe this is because it's volunteer for the side doing the the PL by spending his/her time helping his friend or family member and doing for good will.
ただ、その範囲は今回の占有改修によって発生することを想定しており、
極端なレベル差がある状態で、PLされる側のキャラクタをPT内に入れたまま放置し、
レベル差分の経験値の減衰が効力を発揮していないことが想定外でした。
We did have an idea about this after after the modification to the claiming system but didn't expect where the person getting PL can be in the party and do nothing and gaining exp without the penalty where it calculates the level difference between the players.
経験値獲得の計算式は、今回のパッチ1.19で根幹のテコ入れが入ったため、
表面上の効力が分かり難くなっており、今回の対応の遅れに繋がっています。
緊急メンテナンスも視野には入れていましたが、パッチ1.19aのリリースが
目前に迫っているため、本件も同時に対応させて頂きます。
There was root changes to the exp gain calculation formula in 1.19 and made it difficult to understand and also reason for the delay.
We thought of having a emergency maintenance but patch 1.19a release is close by so we will have this included in it as well.
混乱について重ねてお詫び致します。
I apologize again and again for the confusion.
They havent given up on anything and are adjusting it. As things are now, its not working the way Yoshi wanted it to work. EXP penalties in parties are supposed to be applied, and the lower level character would have to claim an enemy if they wanted to be PL by a player outside the party.
Thats the way it was supposed to work, not like this...as such it will be fixed. -
10-12-2011, 04:13 AMFanzeronI agree. It wasn't until I was lvl 30 that I finally learned the best way to tank in this game. Not to mention I got quite a stash of material and gil to upgrade my armor. In fact, we don't have to wait any longer to see who PL'd their way into 40's and 50's: Just walk a little in U'ldah and the shouting begin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Grudgebringer
Looking for armorer lvl 50 that can make... Need someone who can make toad leather.... Anyone high to craft... (and my very favorite): Got material for lvl 50 armor, please help NOW!!!!
Oh, brother! Hope next time they'd ask their lvl 50's friends for an extra million gil, so they could buy the whole lvl 50 gear in the markets.
Btw, Teknoman, I just love your signature. So true! -
10-12-2011, 04:18 AMReinheart
Bay's official translated post on this one http://goo.gl/4zZ4A
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10-12-2011, 06:40 AMzaviermhigoThis is kind of an unfair statement, I've been playing since CE and my highest craft is 34, that person could of been playing for a long time and just doesn't craft. Everyone shouldn't have to craft in an mmo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanzeron
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10-12-2011, 11:09 AMFanzeronI totally agree with you, Zavier: none should be forced to craft or do something they don't enjoy in a MORPG. Afterall, a game is for having fun. And you'll also agree that the best MORPGs in the markets, there's a good reason it takes weeks and even months to reach lvl cap: quests, leves, dungeons raids or just lvl up by yourself killing mobs, in all the time it takes, the player has made quite a lot of money. Want to buy high end gear? -pfft- I've been playing since opening, of course I got millions in the bank! Wanna hire someone to attach high lvl materia? -pfft- Take thi$$$ and put me 3 materias in my gear!Quote:
Originally Posted by zaviermhigo
Then we suddenly have a ton of people that reached lvl cap in a couple of days, but they lack the resources$$$ to get high lvl gear. My best guess is that good ol' Yoshida forgot to add in his letter: "if I'm lvl 50 and I invite a friend to play with me... I also give him high lvl gear for free".:rolleyes:
Sorry if this statement sounds unfair or it's making me look like a troll. Trust me, I am not. It's only logical that if someone got a "free" ride to lvl 50, well too bad he forgot to ask for his "free loot" too. The markets are practically overflowing with new high lvl gear, and the prices just settled around 150k to 200k. That's pretty fair for someone who played for months and got quite a bit of money for doing leves, behests, quests. etc. On the other hand, I just see a lot of new lvls 50 wearing their old low lvl equipment. I suppose they formed a sentimental bond with their gear and don't want to part with it. You know these things are quite common in MORPGs. :o -
10-12-2011, 11:23 AMNuru
Fanzeron has a point. I really dont think someone being at level cap is the problem, but the equipment they have and the wealth they have achieved should tell whether or not this person matches their rank. I've been playing since a month after release, barely before the first patch came out and its been on and off. I've gone through millions of gil only to find myself right now with a one and a half sets of level 50 gear. I never knew how to make good gil.
What i'm trying to say is that it really shouldn't matter who is what rank and how they got it. Just worry about yourself. That's why we are playing a game that is considerably in Beta. If you look at the big picture, we are all going to end up in the same spot eventually. Do you think the first Level 50 player in this game really cares about people being PLed? Or how much easier it is to gain ranks now?
I could give a marmot's ass about who is what rank. As long as they don't wuss out on Ifrit on me.