Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

Is it me or does MCH not really get any love? I already see a lot of AST and DRK at 60 and fully geared, but I have yet to see MCH...it makes me want to play it lol

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Originally Posted by Soliz0816

Is it me or does MCH not really get any love? I already see a lot of AST and DRK at 60 and fully geared, but I have yet to see MCH...it makes me want to play it lol

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We are very high maintenance for low reward right now, what is needed is either gear, or se to fix us >_> that's probably why not many.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

We are very high maintenance for low reward right now, what is needed is either gear, or se to fix us >_> that's probably why not many.

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Yup. But i'm having so much fun with the job tho.

This job has tons of potential. I love how I feel like a cross between a mnk / blm / brd. Unfortunately, there are some real issues plaguing this class atm. Just like MrSmiley stated, the effort put into this class does not reflect in the outcome.

I've made a post on the official forums here discussing my thoughts and many others regard MCH. If you're interested, it could be a good read while your taking a snack break :)

Just a quick disclaimer: I share my thoughts in that post as well as many others. There is some testing done that I post from other users.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ious-attention

Wild fire cooldown of 90 sec is not playing nicely with reload 60s and quick reload 30s. In this case, is it more DPS to delay reload (use wildfire on cooldown) or wildfire (use reload on cooldown)

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Originally Posted by Soliz0816

Is it me or does MCH not really get any love? I already see a lot of AST and DRK at 60 and fully geared, but I have yet to see MCH...it makes me want to play it lol

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I am a "fully" geared MCN (missing ravana weapon). I enjoy that there is not many of us yet, cause when those buffs come, the bangwagon will come with it.

I already know all mch are gonna be shunned from raiding come alex.

I feel bad for groups when farming law cause I can barely bring anything to the plate other then a non dead dps.

I just need to hear will this get fixed in time for alex if not i'll spend the next two weeks grinding out my nin or hell a DARK DPS Cause you know that is actually a thing

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Originally Posted by MelvinK

Wild fire cooldown of 90 sec is not playing nicely with reload 60s and quick reload 30s. In this case, is it more DPS to delay reload (use wildfire on cooldown) or wildfire (use reload on cooldown)

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I've been wondering this too. I've been using Reload when it comes up and delaying Wildfire simply because it's more fun to use Reload whenever possible, but seeing how much damage comes from Wildfire I would guess it's best to delay Reload instead.

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Originally Posted by Shhikasan

I already know all mch are gonna be shunned from raiding come alex.

I feel bad for groups when farming law cause I can barely bring anything to the plate other then a non dead dps.

I just need to hear will this get fixed in time for alex if not i'll spend the next two weeks grinding out my nin or hell a DARK DPS Cause you know that is actually a thing

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I geared out my MCH enough now so Im going to shelf him til the dusk settles. I dont feel like bandwagoning off the job but I would rather play a job that people want and know is good rather than one that COULD be good but everyone does it better.

SMN lvl 55 so far :D

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Originally Posted by Zorzi

I've been wondering this too. I've been using Reload when it comes up and delaying Wildfire simply because it's more fun to use Reload whenever possible, but seeing how much damage comes from Wildfire I would guess it's best to delay Reload instead.

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Hey, I modified the sim to run these two options for 270s each and here are the results with 1000 simulations:

Option 1: Delay all by 30s buffs so it lines up with Reload @ 120s
70591 avg

Option 2: Don't delay Reload or buffs and use them whenever they are up
70811 avg

Option 3: Delay Reload by 30s to line up with 90s buffs
70265 avg

So surprisingly, in theory, it's actually worth delaying your buffs (Hawk's Eye + Blood for Blood + Wildfire + Rapid Fire) to line it up with Hypercharge + Reload, not what was expected at all. I also included delaying Raging Strikes by 240s instead of 180s, and it's also an increase of DPS. However, these conditions are assuming that you have 100% uptime on the enemies, and the buffs are all popped together, so to decide between Option 1 and Option 2 depends on the fight.

Inflated simulation numbers were throwing it off, the difference between Option 1 and 2 are minimal.

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Originally Posted by MiruWest

I geared out my MCH enough now so Im going to shelf him til the dusk settles. I dont feel like bandwagoning off the job but I would rather play a job that people want and know is good rather than one that COULD be good but everyone does it better.

SMN lvl 55 so far :D

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I am all leveled out and getting another dps to 60 thru pure grind of dungeons and fates is not my idea for fun for the next few weeks. I'll try to muster through dungeons and get my 170 gear and hunts for upgrades.
I feel heavy regret leveling mch but little hope for balance before alex or anytime soon if history is doomed to repeat itself. it doesn't matter Sqaure got my money they can sit back while they wait for stuff to unlock and such.

I just want some info as if the brd and mch are being look into. I mean they already responded to monks chakra sound.

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Hey, I modified the sim to run these two options for 270s each and here are the results:

Option 1: Delay all by 30s buffs so it lines up with Reload @ 120s
237248 avg

Option 2: Don't delay Reload or buffs and use them whenever they are up
234477 avg

Option 3: Delay Reload by 30s to line up with 90s buffs
193184 avg

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Hi OP,
it looks to me that option 1 and option 2 result in very similar in term of DPS then i dont think i will bother with option 1 since lining up cooldowns require effort and planning for that minuscule DPS gain. Might as well spend my effort on tracking procs. Isn't this a more practical approach? Are you able to determine how much is the contribution of cooldown DPS separately from the normal rotation 1-2-3 in term of overall DPS. With this, probably we can see if it is sensible to forgo option 1 such that effort spend on perfect response to procs is more of a DPS gain than DPS lose for option 2.

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Originally Posted by MelvinK

Hi OP,
it looks to me that option 1 and option 2 result in very similar in term of DPS then i dont think i will bother with option 1 since lining up cooldowns require effort and planning for that minuscule DPS gain. Might as well spend my effort on tracking procs. Isn't this a more practical approach? Are you able to determine how much is the contribution of cooldown DPS separately from the normal rotation 1-2-3 in term of overall DPS. With this, probably we can see if it is sensible to forgo option 1 such that effort spend on perfect response to procs is more of a DPS gain than DPS lose for option 2.

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Yeah, Option 2 is indeed more practical. As for determining how much of a contribution buffed damage does vs the normal rotation, here it is below based off of 1000 simulations:

Buffed Potency (22s)
25s: 7748

Unbuffed Potency (68s)
65s: 15513

Total Potency (90s)
90s: 23261

So, your buffed burst of skills makes up roughly 33% of your damage and the regular 1-2-3 rotation makes up 67% of your damage.

Thanks OP for your effort. Appreciated it.

Was looking over the opener posted,

Pull

-Dexterity Potion
-Hawk's Eye
Hot Shot
-Blood for Blood
-Hypercharge
Lead Shot
-Wildfire
-Rapid Fire
-Gauss Barrel (on)
Split Shot
-Ricochet
-Gauss Round
Slug Shot
-Reassemble
Clean Shot
-Gauss Barrel (off)
-Blank
-Head Graze
Split Shot

Is there any reason you do not use blank and head graze before you turn off gauss barrel?

i.e

Pull

-Dexterity Potion
-Hawk's Eye
Hot Shot
-Blood for Blood
-Hypercharge
Lead Shot
-Wildfire
-Rapid Fire
-Gauss Barrel (on)
Split Shot
-Ricochet
-Gauss Round
Slug Shot
-Reassemble
Clean Shot
-Blank
-Head Graze
-Gauss Barrel (off)*
Split Shot

Thank you for the guide. Lots of useful information here.
How much of a dps loss do you reckon it will be to completely drop Gauss Barrel, Gauss Round, and Ricochet?
I feel the additional dps (if any) doesn't justify the increase in complexity or the loss of mobility, whether during the opener or if full-timing Gauss Barrel.

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Originally Posted by Whyabadi

Thank you for the guide. Lots of useful information here.
How much of a dps loss do you reckon it will be to completely drop Gauss Barrel, Gauss Round, and Ricochet?
I feel the additional dps (if any) doesn't justify the increase in complexity or the loss of mobility, whether during the opener or if full-timing Gauss Barrel.

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a lot of dps lost you should only use gauss barrel and its two spells during the wildfire burst outside of that and keeping it on will reduce your dps

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Was looking over the opener posted,

Pull

-Dexterity Potion
-Hawk's Eye
Hot Shot
-Blood for Blood
-Hypercharge
Lead Shot
-Wildfire
-Rapid Fire
-Gauss Barrel (on)
Split Shot
-Ricochet
-Gauss Round
Slug Shot
-Reassemble
Clean Shot
-Gauss Barrel (off)
-Blank
-Head Graze
Split Shot

Is there any reason you do not use blank and head graze before you turn off gauss barrel?

i.e

Pull

-Dexterity Potion
-Hawk's Eye
Hot Shot
-Blood for Blood
-Hypercharge
Lead Shot
-Wildfire
-Rapid Fire
-Gauss Barrel (on)
Split Shot
-Ricochet
-Gauss Round
Slug Shot
-Reassemble
Clean Shot
-Blank
-Head Graze
-Gauss Barrel (off)*
Split Shot

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My bad on that typo, you're right, Blank + Head Graze should be used before Gauss Barrel goes off. Fixed that!

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Originally Posted by Whyabadi

Thank you for the guide. Lots of useful information here.
How much of a dps loss do you reckon it will be to completely drop Gauss Barrel, Gauss Round, and Ricochet?
I feel the additional dps (if any) doesn't justify the increase in complexity or the loss of mobility, whether during the opener or if full-timing Gauss Barrel.

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The DPS loss is 65380 potency to 70770 potency over 270s, which is about 8% decrease in potency.

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

My bad on that typo, you're right, Blank + Head Graze should be used before Gauss Barrel goes off. Fixed that!

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What about Raging Strikes? Didn't see that in the list.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

What about Raging Strikes? Didn't see that in the list.

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It's used just before the pull.

Regarding Quick Reload, is it optimal to delay a bit (1-2 sec) in case we have slug shot proc?

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Originally Posted by MelvinK

Regarding Quick Reload, is it optimal to delay a bit (1-2 sec) in case we have slug shot proc?

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Here, I simulated it with 1000 simulations with two options over 270s.

Option 1: Delaying QR for Slug Shot proc
70811 avg

Option 2: Not delaying on QR for Slug Shot proc
70798 avg

The difference is so small, that you can do whichever is more comfortable.

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Originally Posted by Keylus

I am the only one here that gets clean shot procs 2-3 time in a row in a normal basis? (without reload)
I mean, I get times that I only spam Split Shot, but there are other time that I get a lot of procs

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I would love that to happen to me. I would happily admit that I am wrong, if it were the case. Again, I know it's RNG, but I've yet to ever have the odds play out in MY favor.

/sad face

I tend to have my procs go from one extreme to the other, having one fight with several slug and clean shot procs in a row and then on the next pull spam split shot 7 or 8 times before RNGesus throws me a bone.
It's almost too random right now.

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Originally Posted by RhynAzullo

I tend to have my procs go from one extreme to the other, having one fight with several slug and clean shot procs in a row and then on the next pull spam split shot 7 or 8 times before RNGesus throws me a bone.
It's almost too random right now.

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I've the same problem on "Phase" I've just down the second primal in brutal mode, just have some phase with absolutly no proc in 2 minutes (i don't count the one from QR or Reload). And some other with near 100% proc... when u have that on a burst phase it's good, but when u have the other one... u just feeling so silly...

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Originally Posted by Blacksyd

I've the same problem on "Phase" I've just down the second primal in brutal mode, just have some phase with absolutly no proc in 2 minutes (i don't count the one from QR or Reload). And some other with near 100% proc... when u have that on a burst phase it's good, but when u have the other one... u just feeling so silly...

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While playing last night.
1... 1... 1... 1!.. 1!!! 1 OH FFS **** OFF GOD DAMNIT I HATE THIS, oh 2...

So as I just learned, faint from DRG is instant cast while under the effect of gauss barrel.

Also another thing in the opener, you have Wildfire -> Rapid fire -> Gauss.

If you have higher latency I suggest you swap wild fire and rapid fires position so you do not get a cast time to put gauss barrel on (that you cannot cancel btw >:|)

(sorry for nit picking) '-'

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Originally Posted by Ephier

So as I just learned, faint from DRG is instant cast while under the effect of gauss barrel.

Also another thing in the opener, you have Wildfire -> Rapid fire -> Gauss.

If you have higher latency I suggest you swap wild fire and rapid fires position so you do not get a cast time to put gauss barrel on (that you cannot cancel btw >:|)

(sorry for nit picking) '-'

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No problem at all, glad to hear the input!

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

No problem at all, glad to hear the input!

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Also, as I am not tech savvy in the ways of python, have you begun work on a rotation for gauss barrel only incase they do buff the damage or are you going to wait until you see the buffs? Opener changes every day is a nightmare for the muscle memory. +_+

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Also, as I am not tech savvy in the ways of python, have you begun work on a rotation for gauss barrel only incase they do buff the damage or are you going to wait until you see the buffs? Opener changes every day is a nightmare for the muscle memory. +_+

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For a opener with Gauss Barrel on for the whole time, nothing would change other than Gauss Barrel not being toggled and Gauss Barrel being precast because the opener is assuming you can only weave in 2 oGCDs.

The only thing I would have to calculate is comparing delaying Gauss Round by 10s and Ricochet by 30s to line up with buffs or not.

Right now it's a 1.2x potency modification (20% increased damage), if they are only buffing the % of Gauss Barrel it needs to be 30% in terms of potency to make it higher damage than without autos.

I apologize if this has already been answered, but outside of the opener should I only be using Gauss when rapid shot is up (as I've been doing), or hardcast it if it means getting ricochet and gauss round out?

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Originally Posted by Divebombs

I apologize if this has already been answered, but outside of the opener should I only be using Gauss when rapid shot is up (as I've been doing), or hardcast it if it means getting ricochet and gauss round out?

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Only when you use rapid fire:)

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Originally Posted by Ephier

So as I just learned, faint from DRG is instant cast while under the effect of gauss barrel.

Also another thing in the opener, you have Wildfire -> Rapid fire -> Gauss.

If you have higher latency I suggest you swap wild fire and rapid fires position so you do not get a cast time to put gauss barrel on (that you cannot cancel btw >:|)

(sorry for nit picking) '-'

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For any one who gets this lag, you may also want to wait a bit after turning Gauss off to use Split Shot. You can get the same uninterruptable cast time. What makes it extra hilarious is when you get a proc halfway through the "cast"... I'm guessing that means it's uninterruptable because the server doesn't think you're casting at all? Maybe if SE thinks its possible to abuse they'll fix it. :cool:

Hey all questions about the opener rotation. I'm only 53 so I do not have Guass Round yet so been trying to find a way to maximize and practice the opener. Which made me wonder

I know part of the reason because reload used bit earlier so 2 ammo things are wasted sorta on hot/lead. However if we could find a way to hold reload. You can leave Guass Barrell on for 2 full rotations and your ICs.

Reload
Split Shot
Rapid Fire
Guass Barrell
Slug Shot
Guass Round
Riccochet
Split
Clean -Ressemble here
Slug
Clean - or here.
Blank
Head Graze
GB - off

again I don't have all the abilities, currently i'm doing this for my wildfire as without guass round it was only way that made sense for me to use GB at all. I get 1 Split, 2 Slugs, 2 Clean outta my Guass + ICs.

I'm encountering a slight dilemma right now wherein my reload/qr doesnt phase properly with my 2nd wildfire/gauss barrel chance (after 90 seconds of opener). Should I delay reload for a whole 30 seconds?

Am I the only one who feels that split shots proc rate is less than 50%? I can't count how many times I've gone 5,6 or even 7 shots in a row without a prof, yet I've never had more than two in a row actually proc. It happens constantly when reload and quick reload are on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Am I the only one who feels that split shots proc rate is less than 50%? I can't count how many times I've gone 5,6 or even 7 shots in a row without a prof, yet I've never had more than two in a row actually proc. It happens constantly when reload and quick reload are on cooldown.

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It does feel lower than 50% for both tiers. I have gotten WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more non-procs than procs from 30-50.

And no that isn't from bias, it's called it really was more non procs.

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Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

It does feel lower than 50% for both tiers. I have gotten WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more non-procs than procs from 30-50.

And no that isn't from bias, it's called it really was more non procs.

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You see, that's the weird thing. Slug Shot seem to proc Cleaner Shot fine for me. Doesn't always, but enough to feel like it's at 50%. I only have a problem with Split Shot proccing enhanced slug shot.

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Originally Posted by Emilita

I'm encountering a slight dilemma right now wherein my reload/qr doesnt phase properly with my 2nd wildfire/gauss barrel chance (after 90 seconds of opener). Should I delay reload for a whole 30 seconds?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Hey, I modified the sim to run these two options for 270s each and here are the results with 1000 simulations:

Option 1: Delay all by 30s buffs so it lines up with Reload @ 120s
70591 avg

Option 2: Don't delay Reload or buffs and use them whenever they are up
70811 avg

Option 3: Delay Reload by 30s to line up with 90s buffs
70265 avg

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It doesn't really matter, tailor it to your preferences or to the fight, depending on if you need burst or not, if the boss is going invulnerable, etc.