DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teryaani

And dropping to name calling doesn't help make your case. If SE implemented it, with controls from the start to prevent the spam requests, the only thing you'd have to do is ask dissenters "How does this affect you? Not at all? Then why are you arguing?"

---

Carebear is name calling? Last time I checked carebears was a cartoon. A person posting before you even says hes proud to be a carebear. Anyhow, he doesn't need to make a case. Dueling seems to be supported quite well in this thread.

Honestly I would love to have a /duel option, because when I'm in Goblet waiting for a duty with friends we'd like to have some fun. I mean it's not possible even to play Triple Triad in Goblet, not even in the FC house =/ And so far from my experience every MMO that had a duel system also had an option in the settings to automatically decline them. And it can't get more annoying than people sending trade requests when you try to teleport >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teryaani

Stuff

---

Please don't be insulted that I called you out. This is what happened here: You viewed someone using the word carebear as an insult, and then someone owned up to being a carebear and that he was proud of it which contradicts your argument. I called you out on it and now you are sitting here grasping for straws to counter that. Sorry man, if you feel insulted by me calling you out on a forum I think its time you take a step back and take a deep breath. It's just a video game forum.

Besides, I know you won't explain the supposed insult behind the word carebear because you know there is none. It is incredibly subjective that you view the word carebear as an insult and there's not much you can do to prove to myself and others that it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teryaani

Stuff

---

Sorry man, but whatever you say doesn't change anything. Please don't feel insulted that I called out on an event that contradicted your logic. I'm not used to carebear being seen as an insult and I still don't believe it, nor will you explain it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teryaani

You didn't contradict anything and I don't feel insulted. I'm feeling a bit of pity right now, but not insulted. You just chose to ignore the things I've said. I suppose that's easier than answering them.

---

This sentence was uttered before you said being called a carebear was an insult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conradus

Damn straight we're carebears, and proud of it. In case you haven't noticed, FFXIV is a carebear game. While I haven't taken a poll, I think most of us like it that way.

---

Apparently, this person doesn't think so, nor does he give any hint of it being utilized as an insult. This is what contradicts your argument.

I'm choosing to ignore the petty insults and attempts to get under my skin in order to respond in the most neutral way possible. But this should not be seen as demeaning or passive aggressive in any way.

I'm sorry but urban dictionary is not a credible source, and nor are you. I'm unaware that the word carebear is used as an insult and I still refuse to believe so.

http://media.giphy.com/media/128UMaujdjX7Pi/giphy.gif

Sorry but I think this was needed considering what this topic degenerated into.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhas

http://media.giphy.com/media/128UMaujdjX7Pi/giphy.gif

---

I like it!

Now now now I know the PvP in ffxiv is terrible but no need to duel on the forums.
Carebear is Not an insult It's a plat style. Being over sensitive to it does not make the term itself negative.
And if you notice he finds being called a carebear offensive apologize and move on.

Anyway dueling should be in. Option to auto reject should be in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LTEvil

Now now now I know the PvP in ffxiv is terrible but no need to duel on the forums.
Carebear is Not an insult It's a plat style. Being over sensitive to it does not make the term itself negative.
And if you notice he finds being called a carebear offensive apologize and move on.

Anyway dueling should be in. Option to auto reject should be in.

---

You, I like the way you think. Have a +1 like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LTEvil

Now now now I know the PvP in ffxiv is terrible but no need to duel on the forums.
Carebear is Not an insult It's a plat style. Being over sensitive to it does not make the term itself negative.
And if you notice he finds being called a carebear offensive apologize and move on.

Anyway dueling should be in. Option to auto reject should be in.

---

But it is an insult - it's an insinuation that you're not a 'real' player if you dislike attacking other players, and it is in that context the term is being used in this thread. Along similar lines another poster called those who dislike one on one duelling as 'children' earlier on as well, both terms being insulting and derogatory towards players who prefer PvE for whatever reason. In any event, this is not helping PvP's case in any way and only serves to show just how immature, rude and arrogant a lot of players who want 1x1 PvP in FFXIV really are.

You end up dueling as part of the MAIN quest line. I don't see a lore reason against having dueling in the game.

If people want to have a fun little duel SE should let them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Don't want this at all. There is no point in 1v1 pvp even in just dueling when every real pvp feature is team based. It's just for e-peen and I don't think it has a place here, and I don't want the kind of environment it creates.

---

Duels are a far better way to practice PvP than those worthless dummies in Wolves Den Pier. Not to mention a great piece of content to do while waiting for PvP queues, seeing as people who are queuing for PvP generally want to PvP I'd imagine every PvPer would welcome the content, seeing as it turns waiting for over 30 minutes not PvPing into waiting for over 30 minutes (perhaps it would lower the queues since people would more readily be able to PvP even) while PvPing. We can also balance it ourselves, same verses same for a challenge, whatever for practice.

Sorry, but "e-peen" is far from the only reason to have duels. Believe it or not, but some of us PvPers (as in, seemingly every PvPer who has weighed in on this thread) actually just want to have fun, rather than showing off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

In any event, this is not helping PvP's case in any way and only serves to show just how immature, rude and arrogant a lot of players who want 1x1 PvP in FFXIV really are.

---

Sorry, but put yourself in our shoes. We have gone out of our way to suggest Duels in such a way that it as next to no impact on PvEers, and still people insist that there is somehow something wrong, either out right ignoring basically everything we've said, or resorting to utterly inane lines of argument like "PvPers will lag out zones and cause too much noise pollution with Duels!".

Constantly dealing with people like this gets frustrating, and yes, some of them are being childish and overly sensitive. What else do you call it when someone doesn't like something and thus insists that nobody should have it as a result? That is a very childish attitude. There are plenty of PvEers who have chimed in on this topic, having actually read it and realized what we're asking for wouldn't impact them in any significant way. There are also plenty of childish PvEers who's posts basically amount to "I don't like it so you can't have it!". Perhaps that's just their knee-jerk reaction to the topic and they've not read it at all so they don't know what we're suggesting, but am I meant to call that mature? Jumping into a topic and disregarding its content, to me, is still childish.

Is it insulting? Sure. You try putting up with the same childish arguments over and over. It's getting pretty ridiculous at this point, very few people are actually discussing the topic; They're either touting the same childish line of thinking while completely ignoring the discussion, or they're complaining about how "care bear" is or isn't an insult. How about people actually pick apart the suggestion if they have a problem with it? The best I've seen so far is the aforementioned "It'll cause lag/noise pollution" argument and that was woefully pathetic.

I'm glad there are a few reasonable people out there, all you guys going "I don't PvP, but this sounds fine", you all get a cookie. Thank you for actually reading the suggestion and responding in a mature manner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

.

---

Maybe that is what you believe the term to be. But the word is not an insult in it if itself. It varies depending on context. But the word itself for me comes from eve. We use it to define pvers or players who actively avoid conflict with other players.

Now If you are going to use those who may have been a bit hasty or disrespectful to generalize a crowd by saying a lot when a handful did it then Idk what to tell you. If we use your logic every play style is full of arrogant players since there is that type of player in ever form of play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Sorry, but "e-peen" is far from the only reason to have duels. Believe it or not, but some of us PvPers (as in, seemingly every PvPer who has weighed in on this thread) actually just want to have fun, rather than showing off.

---

I think it speaks volumes that many PvPers are going as far as to ask SE for duels while asking them to disregard class balance at the same time. It has to be for fun. No rational PvPer (I would hope) would ask SE to implement duels, ask them to also disregard class balance citing duels as recreational purpose, and then use duels to show off.

Bumping this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Sorry, but put yourself in our shoes. We have gone out of our way to suggest Duels in such a way that it as next to no impact on PvEers, and still people insist that there is somehow something wrong, either out right ignoring basically everything we've said, or resorting to utterly inane lines of argument like "PvPers will lag out zones and cause too much noise pollution with Duels!".

---

You have gone out of your way as have a handful of other players and you're right, this is something that would be a good feature if implemented correctly.

Quote:

---

Constantly dealing with people like this gets frustrating, and yes, some of them are being childish and overly sensitive. What else do you call it when someone doesn't like something and thus insists that nobody should have it as a result? That is a very childish attitude. There are plenty of PvEers who have chimed in on this topic, having actually read it and realized what we're asking for wouldn't impact them in any significant way. There are also plenty of childish PvEers who's posts basically amount to "I don't like it so you can't have it!". Perhaps that's just their knee-jerk reaction to the topic and they've not read it at all so they don't know what we're suggesting, but am I meant to call that mature? Jumping into a topic and disregarding its content, to me, is still childish.

Is it insulting? Sure. You try putting up with the same childish arguments over and over. It's getting pretty ridiculous at this point, very few people are actually discussing the topic; They're either touting the same childish line of thinking while completely ignoring the discussion, or they're complaining about how "care bear" is or isn't an insult. How about people actually pick apart the suggestion if they have a problem with it? The best I've seen so far is the aforementioned "It'll cause lag/noise pollution" argument and that was woefully pathetic.

---

And here is the problem. That carebear argument was me pointing out that I hoped you would get this but people need to stop insulting the other players. This is an image problem and that behavior exacerbates it.

I feel you on players that won't budge from their position. Focus on the people who will rather than raising your blood pressure on those who won't

Quote:

---

I'm glad there are a few reasonable people out there, all you guys going "I don't PvP, but this sounds fine", you all get a cookie. Thank you for actually reading the suggestion and responding in a mature manner.

---

I like cookies!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conradus

Not happening. SE regards individual players fighting one another as counter to the Final Fantasy ethos. They wouldn't do it in FFXI, they're not going to do it here. PvP in Final Fantasy MMOs has always been in teams based on the city you pledged allegiance to. I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.

---

So just call it sparring? Surely swordsman and martial artists spar in the FF universe?

Bumping for dueling

I agree with new avenues to try PvP, as it will help people become more familiar and interested in PvP. PvP in WoW would not be as popular as it is without World PvP "forcing" people to engage in it, that's a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

I don't think anyone has a problem with duels, just not open world duels. The little arena in Ul'dah, Wolves' Den, by all means please. Duel to your heart's content. But leave me, and everyone else not interested, out of it.

---

Append: Open world PvP is the reason I don't play alot of MMOs. Forcing it on me isn't going to change my mind on the matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

So just call it sparring? Surely swordsman and martial artists spar in the FF universe?

---

Don't know if anyone has said this yet, because 11 pages is alot to read through. But I remember accidentally and on purpose hitting my own team in many of the old FF games (Never really played 11) :)

Myself, it would not bother me if they did offer a auto deny and maybe the text could be seen if the auto deny is turned off. IE: SoandSo and challenged you to a duel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

Append: Open world PvP is the reason I don't play alot of MMOs. Forcing it on me isn't going to change my mind on the matter.

---

Who is forcing it on you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Who is forcing it on you?

---

It changes some of the tone and attitude of much of the community making it much more confrontational and competitive. That much would be forced on everyone regardless if they participate or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

It changes some of the tone and attitude of much of the community making it much more confrontational and competitive. That much would be forced on everyone regardless if they participate or not.

---

I mean, that is a real question. If you mean you get offended by "seeing" someone fight, then please grow up. (If you don't, then ignore this!) There are many things in the world a lot worse.

Anyways, they were talking about adding contested content to the game. Which is PvP, so I guess if that offends you you should probably quit anyways.

Although, you might as well quit now because crafting is already a sort of "PvP" since your selling your goods versus other players. Does that offend you?

Not that i'm telling you to quit for real. I just don't see why people play games when they don't have fun, and get offended when other people have fun.

Competition is human nature, and it is already competitive. Look at raids.

The forums are confrontational and they are part of the game, as you can see. Things on the forums can change how the game works. So its already a thing.

As a role-player, I see fighting every single day pretty much. Although its from role-playing if we had a feature like this it could enhance my role-play experience and make it more immersive. Although it could also make it less so if people have characters who don't use the skills. However it could be useful for events, instead of spamming chat with emotes you could just have spars and fights.

I haven't read most of the thread but...

Instead of completely open world, why not open up the Coliseum in Ul'dah for 1vs1 matches? Maybe have it possible to enter once you reach Gladiator level 30 to encourage people to try a tanking class?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Norna

I haven't read most of the thread but...

Instead of completely open world, why not open up the Coliseum in Ul'dah for 1vs1 matches? Maybe have it possible to enter once you reach Gladiator level 30 to encourage people to try a tanking class?

---

Why? Sparring isn't just held in one place. People spar all over the place because the environment is important to it. You will never learn to fight if you don't learn about the environments you could fight in. Most duels in real life take place outside, in unfamiliar places.

Dueling and Sparring is a lot different, and nobody is talking about Gladiators here, Gladiator combat is much different then that.

However, why does it have to be 1v1? It should go up to 10v10, or 20v20, ect ect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

It changes some of the tone and attitude of much of the community making it much more confrontational and competitive. That much would be forced on everyone regardless if they participate or not.

---

I don't think anything gets more confrontational and competitive than hardcore raiding in this game. Dueling is something just to help pass the time.

Bumping for dueling

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I don't think anything gets more confrontational and competitive than hardcore raiding in this game. Dueling is something just to help pass the time.

---

Yeah, I think its safe to say there's nothing really at stake with a sparring system.

This game is simply getting more popular, more options can only be a good thing. Missing a duel/ spar mode (something in a great deal of this games competitors), in my opinion is detrimental. Not only does it fit the Lore of a fantasy themed game (every one duels in the msq people) it would (as many have pointed out) offer something to do on the down time of raids, dungeons, hunts, ect... We are going to Ishgard ladies and gents, a place on knights, where honor and martial skill is paramount. What better place, what better expansion than this to see such a feature?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alacran

This game is simply getting more popular, more options can only be a good thing. Missing a duel/ spar mode (something in a great deal of this games competitors), in my opinion is detrimental. Not only does it fit the Lore of a fantasy themed game (every one duels in the msq people) it would (as many have pointed out) offer something to do on the down time of raids, dungeons, hunts, ect... We are going to Ishgard ladies and gents, a place on knights, where honor and martial skill is paramount. What better place, what better expansion than this to see such a feature?

---

The only reason this game is getting more popular is because it is pve focused when alot of people are tired of mmo's being a hybrid of pve/pvp that throws balanced out of whack and causes a certain company to completely change around all jobs/classes every 6 months because of balance issues. Say no to /duels in this game. FF should not be another forum for e-peen cheaters to try to brow beat superiority and dominance into the other 99% of the players who enjoy the game as a pve oriented game. Please do not add pvp to FF 14 more then it already has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vlady

The only reason this game is getting more popular is because it is pve focused

---

https://i.warosu.org/data/biz/img/00...5695239462.jpg

I love how people still stick to the mentality that PvE and PvP can't coexist, despite the fact that SE has already proven they can implement PvP without destroying PvE balance. If anything the PvP balance is what's getting screwed over, PvE balance hasn't been impacted by PvP in the slightest.

It's almost as silly as the logical fallacy that, somehow, in a game that is 90% PvE, implementing anything PvP will suddenly turn the entirety of the player base into raging assholes. I'd really love to know, exactly, how adding duels would suddenly fundamentally change the player base. Duels aren't even something PvPers would use for e-peen. This is such an absurd line of argument... More so when the raiding community is far more guilty of such behavior than the PvP community currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

More so when the raiding community is far more guilty of such behavior than the PvP community currently.

---

Sure, but you only really encounter the raiding community inside raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilthas

Sure, but you only really encounter the raiding community inside raids.

---

Are you suggesting the same wouldn't be true for PvP? I mean, it's already the case that the PvP community generally sticks to the PvP subsection. I don't think I've ever seen people shouting over PvP in game.

Meanwhile the PvE community is constantly arguing over utter inane bullsh*t. Any Crystal Tower run is proof enough of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Are you suggesting the same wouldn't be true for PvP?

---

Not the PVP that is being asked for here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Anyways, they were talking about adding contested content to the game. Which is PvP, so I guess if that offends you you should probably quit anyways.

---

Thank you. Thank you for giving me the perfect example of the kind of bad attitude I believe comes with dueling. In your zest to argue about it and disparage those that disagree you've perfectly put on display the exact reason I don't want dueling.

Pve is the primary focus of this game yet you find it appropriate to tell me to quit just because some OPTIONAL pvp exists? You have a terrible attitude and dueling well only being more people like you out from the woodwork.

If it were to be added I would only approve of it being in a limit zone or zones where you must go to actively participate. That way I, and others that don't like this attitude, can avoid you entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Thank you. Thank you for giving me the perfect example of the kind of bad attitude I believe comes with dueling. In your zest to argue about it and disparage those that disagree you've perfectly put on display the exact reason I don't want dueling.

Pve is the primary focus of this game yet you find it appropriate to tell me to quit just because some OPTIONAL pvp exists? You have a terrible attitude and dueling well only being more people like you out from the woodwork.

If it were to be added I would only approve of it being in a limit zone or zones where you must go to actively participate. That way I, and others that don't like this attitude, can avoid you entirely.

---

This ! If they must give them dueling, make it so pure PVE players never have to see them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilthas

Not the PVP that is being asked for here.

---

Given I've seen next to no "drama" in game coming out of existing PvP, I have no reason to believe any addition like Duels would add any.

How many times have you seen people shouting to have others "prove" themselves in Wolves' Den? Or Triple Triad? Or any of the existing PvP?

The people who would "abuse" Dueling would solely be the people who currently abuse Vote Kick/Shout/etc., should those be removed because assholes exist? No. Those people get Blacklisted and forgotten about. Nothing would change with Duels. Never mind the fact that we've suggested things like locking Duels behind a quest (like current PvP is...) or having a required PvP Rank; Meaning if any of you currently don't PvP, nobody would be able to Duel you anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orspeth

This ! If they must give them dueling, make it so pure PVE players never have to see them.

---

Never see them, or never see the requests? Covered the later, have absolutely no idea why anyone cares if a Duel is going on as they're passing by. It's a really odd attitude some people seem to have (not saying you specifically), that seeing a Duel going on is some how offensive to them while people doing all manner of ridiculous things (should I list what I see going on in Revenant's Toll? I don't want to...) is OK. For some reason people Dueling in the open world (which 90% of people hardly even use) is problematic, causing unwanted lag and noise pollution, but people doing Treasure Maps, Levequests and who cares what else isn't? I really don't get that mentality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nalien

Given I've seen next to no "drama" in game coming out of existing PvP, I have no reason to believe any addition like Duels would add any.

---

And? I've also never seen any "raid drama" outside of raids either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilthas

And? I've also never seen any "raid drama" outside of raids either.

---

You seem to have missed the point. I haven't really seen any PvP drama inside PvP.

PvE instances are full of drama, Crystal Tower specifically. In my experience PvP has, if anything, been the opposite. I've seen plenty of people being very welcoming and helpful in Frontlines, forgiving even. I imagine that's the result of PvPers knowing that turning people off is bad for PvP in general, not to mention there isn't really a way to fail in PvP (you can lose, but you still get rewards). PvE you kick a newb and the Duty Finder will land you a replacement in minutes, someone fucks up a mechanic you have to repeat the whole fight, wasting time as you have to repeat fights to get to the rewards.

Like I said, if anyone is going to "abuse" Duels, it's not the PvPers, it's the assholes who are currently being assholes anyway. Slap a PvPr10 requirement on sending/accepting Duels and problem solved, I doubt those people could even make it to PvPr3.