People Need to Start Respecting Healers More

People need to respect each other more. There! How about that!

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Originally Posted by Zfz

People need to respect each other more. There! How about that!

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Agreed.

For every jerky tank, there are at least 10 really good ones who are nice people.
For every jerky healer there are at least 10 really good ones who are nice people.
For every jerky DPS there are at least 10 really good ones who are nice people.

Seems to me that if we let the minority of players - aka the ones we might call 'jerks' affect how we respond to everyone, we allow the 'jerks' to win.

Do commendations do anything in this game or are they just there to tell someone "Good job"?

Most healers never heal my archer as I level up. I almost never get touched in dungeons. I did die one time and was going to give the healer a commendation but he/she was gone before the final cut scene finished. Usually I'll give them to the tank if he was good or to whoever helps the new players with mechanics.

Whoever impresses me the most and/or annoys me the least gets a commend. The end. Sometimes it's a heal, sometimes tank, sometimes dps. Your tank friend might have just been more personable (or maybe your interactions with people turn them off to you). A lot of people commend based on personality. Some on performance.

if youre good I commend you. If you are good but bad attitude I give it to someone else.

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Originally Posted by Cirgellon

Do commendations do anything in this game or are they just there to tell someone "Good job"?

Most healers never heal my archer as I level up. I almost never get touched in dungeons. I did die one time and was going to give the healer a commendation but he/she was gone before the final cut scene finished. Usually I'll give them to the tank if he was good or to whoever helps the new players with mechanics.

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They do mean something, there is an achievement, title and a reward (Golden Magitek mount) for 500 commendations, and thanking people for doing a good job is actually a very effective tool for improving people's play. Sadly many people feel they should get them simply for showing up, and still others feel there is no value. I think they are a way of thanking players for doing well.

I have gotten the brunt of my commendations through healing, but lately I have been getting a lot as lower level DPS (got 2 comms as a Bard and a Rogue today and I don't think I did exceptionally more damage) Generally I will always be helpful and crack jokes if there are any wipes, which might make people give me a comm, I usually comm people like that. Remember that players can only give out one comm, if all players do well, it can only go to one, usually since the tank takes the leading role, its more fitting to give them a personal thanks.

If no one did an outstanding job during the dungeon, I won't comm, but if any player was polite or explained strat to new players, they get my comm for being a good sport.

I agree that comms are rarely given in the trial roulette because of light farmers, but some can net you some a few comms if you do a good job (one time I main tanked Shiva HM and got 5 comms for some reason) and if I solo heal Titan HM, I get no less than 3.

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Originally Posted by Cirgellon

Do commendations do anything in this game or are they just there to tell someone "Good job"?

Most healers never heal my archer as I level up. I almost never get touched in dungeons. I did die one time and was going to give the healer a commendation but he/she was gone before the final cut scene finished. Usually I'll give them to the tank if he was good or to whoever helps the new players with mechanics.

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The rewards include 2 pieces of exclusive gear, title, 2 mounts (one of which is a 2-seater mount, the only one not locked behind Eternal Bond or Recruit a Friend), chocobo barding, and a minion so far. SE also expands the rewards as time goes on.

There's also the satisfaction that you did a good job and that people appreciated you for who you are, and can also help create better players (something this game desperately needs based on many of the DF parties I'm in).

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Healers are there to heal, not dps. Respect the role they joined as?

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yes I respect the role of "Healer"
I never told he or she to dps or anything , I never being mean to any healer that don't want to dps.
I just say I not going to give comm to healer that just heal all the way and standing around wait for my bar to go down
and if you going to put it that way DPS role also do their job too actually they might as well do more than healer too since they press thier rotation all the time and if tank do their job good healer just heal the tank and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Tanks and healers usually get a commendation in groups despite how horrible they played while DPS who do an extremely good job very rarely see one.

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Bingo. This happens pretty much all the time with my role selection.
I can play a WAR with an i90 weap I barely know how to use and get 3 commends just go for 'going fast' even though I'm constantly failing to manage my stacks and defense buffs.

I can play my NIN at i130 that I raid seriously with 12 hours a week, blast every pubbie away on DPS, goad regularly, never get touched by a mechanic and make the dungeon go 10 minutes faster than it normally would and only see one commend if someone's in an extremely good mood

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Agreed.

For every jerky tank, there are at least 10 really good ones who are nice people.
For every jerky healer there are at least 10 really good ones who are nice people.
For every jerky DPS there are at least 10 really good ones who are nice people.

Seems to me that if we let the minority of players - aka the ones we might call 'jerks' affect how we respond to everyone, we allow the 'jerks' to win.

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I'll challenge that statement with my experience on duty finder, along with some logical speculation:

Lots of people have a PLD/WAR as an alt class because, and solely because tanks get fewer queue times, making it much easier to farm those tomes. That being said, most of them (the VAST MAJORITY I found in duty finder) treat you like a glorified bot who's sort of an extra in his epic tale of awesomeness, and who are there for the one reason of helping him farm tomes as quickly as possible. They are jerkish, egocentric and self-absorbed. They don't say hi, and they don't say goodbye. They are the scum, and they are NUMEROUS. VERY. NUMEROUS.

They are NOT the minority. Not even by a long shot.

I believe what happens a lot is the relationships that exist between the roles of the dungeon. I'm a tank. The healer that keeps me alive has more of my thanks than anyone else, because I know that when I'm pulling huge packs of trash, popping cooldowns on rotation, dodging AOEs, and keeping agro off everyone else, I am still taking a beating, and the healer is kind enough to take care of me. I'm also a healer. A dps that gets hit by AOEs that can be dodged makes my job harder. A tank at least has my appreciation if they don't lose agro, because it keeps me from getting punched in the face. As a tank and as a healer, I generally see at the very least 1 commendation from every 4 man I run, sometimes 2 or 3, but almost 99.9% of the time, at least one, from the tank if I'm a healer, or the healer if I am a tank. That simply comes with the relationship between the healer and tank. It doesn't matter how amazing the dps is, how skilled they are, the dynamic still remains that it's the tank who keeps things off the healer, and it's the healer who keeps the tank alive. So it's no surprise that they commend each other, even if the dps were super amazing.

Even in the case of speed running where you push one another to stressful points, there is still a huge appreciation between a healer and a tank for getting through those huge pulls. Call it unfair, sure, but at least when you understand the relationship between them, you'll at least be able to understand why you didn't get all three commends as a dps. Also, I'm sure many people have heard this, but maybe you shouldn't main the one role that almost 90% of the game community mains. Complaints like "DPS queues take so long" are because of this problem. I think people who just want to carry the big guns are just compensating for something.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

I usually commend the healer if I see him DPS while keeping the party alive - which is to say, almost never because 9/10 healers like to stand around and do nothing.

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I actually get really annoyed when I see this and call them out on it as nicely as possible, asking them if they don't feel comfortable with healing and DPSing or something because when I do see this, it usually just looks like the person is being lazy as a lot of times it's during periods where healing isn't very intensive, and all that is really needed to keep the party alive is an AEO heal here and there.

On that note, it was beyond frustrating yesterday when I was kicked out of EX Leviathan, and I was healing properly, and DPSing Leviathan's head and guess what the other healer was doing? Basically nothing as I'd constantly have 3-6 bubbles and she'd always have 1 or none and provided zero DPS to boot. I called her out on it several times, as nicely as possible asking her to actually contribute to healing and then the party voted to kick me! Really, really irritating!

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Yes, but this works only for when you're leveling (1000 gil really isn't worth the hassle of 15 clicks for most of people). I still think the reward should be commendations points instead of gil, much like how the reward for chocobo companion challenges is chocobo exp, and pvp challenges, wolf marks.

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Also... This is just beyond lazy, and kinda rude to your party (if they did a good job). If you're too lazy to click a button... Why are you playing MMORPGs?

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

...personally I think that compared to the WHM, the SCH doesn't bring the "I did all that" feeling because of Eos/Selene. A healer that can save a whole team in the blink of an eye smashing buttons like crazy when everyone's about to die and survive is THE guy. But when you do that as a WHM it seems more com worthy than doing the same thing with a pet to cover you up. I tend to always give coms to the healer, but if I see that anyone on the team surpassed my expectations, sorry healer, no coms for you. Latelly I've been giving lots and lots of coms to tanks and DPS also.

You get faster queues than anyone else, you're the "we need you" of every team... Isn't that a good reward already?

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You realize that (at least in my humble opinion) to be the best healer you possibly can as a SCH that you need to put your pet on obey and use their skills on the hotbar like you'd use your own? It's no easier. It's just visually different.

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Originally Posted by Naliee

This made me twitch a little. I'm sorry, but you have to define what is a "good healer".

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To put it simply, I keep people alive, free of debilitating status affects (sorry, but some status affects are honestly not even worth bothering with), have swiftcast at the ready if needed, make sure my pet is on obey to be able to use its' skills as efficiently as possible (still need help actually figuring out hotbars in FFXIV because even though I can do it successfully it's annoying and it'd be nice just to have a third hotbar I can drag the pet's skills to), and I DPS as much as I possibly can without limiting my ability to keep the party alive.

I have a story.
Today I did WoD originally as a Drg, our alliance basically all died out and both healers waited a bit...I left, returned as SCH, I main SCH and chatted a bit with PT and alliance, got 1 com...
Point is, you aren't always going to get comm's. Doesn't matter if you're solo healing. Tanking as DPS because lame tank, or whatever.
Just not going to get comm's if you were the the last DPS alive or Healer to kill a boss. Just happens.
Is it a little disheartening? Yup but oh well. Just keep doing your best and people will see that...
It helps to be chatty and friendly in dungeons too. Those people make a run fun are better than anything else.

If I play healer I decide what person to give the commendation to otherwise if I'm playing dps I will give the other dps the commendation unless they being a complete idiot, which I usually play dps 90% of the time so the other dps usually gets the commendation.

People love healers, if they don't love us they simply die.... "Did I forget to use Physick? Oh no!"

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

I'll challenge that statement with my experience on duty finder, along with some logical speculation:
**snip**
They are the scum, and they are NUMEROUS. VERY. NUMEROUS.

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In Duty finder perhaps, but not in general. I main PLD, and my primary alts are WHM and SCH in that order. I see plenty of annoying behavior, but perhaps because I seldom grind out the dungeons and primals for the various relic quests, I do not encounter the specific minority of players who's sole focus is on obtaining what *they* want as fast as possible regardless of the consequence.

I did just pick the number 10 out of the air, I should have added a qualification that I was picking a number to represent that the minority of tanks, healers and DPS are actually jerks, no matter how over represented they are in people's experience thanks to them being louder and shoutier than the more silent majority.

From a damage dealer's perspective, my guess would be that the tank & healer are already going to have the "Commend Each Other Circle Jerk". And, often, it's true. Because of this, I tend to give my commendation to a damage dealer. Unless they have really made a mess of things, then I look to the tank/healer (favoring the healer due to them having longer wait times than tanks).

Sometimes I will give a commendation to a new tank/healer as a means to encourage them to continue playing that role.

But if everyone did great, then I get conflicted and wish that I could give more commendations.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

true. most lala players have attitude problem.

I like roe players more. most of them are good persons and roe are cute.

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I seriously hope you're joking and not actually going so low as to stereotype a fictional race. Seeing "race" comments in games makes me realize just why the world is so messed up in reality when it comes to stereotyping and racism.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

From a damage dealer's perspective, my guess would be that the tank & healer are already going to have the "Commend Each Other Circle Jerk". And, often, it's true. Because of this, I tend to give my commendation to a damage dealer. Unless they have really made a mess of things, then I look to the tank/healer (favoring the healer due to them having longer wait times than tanks).

Sometimes I will give a commendation to a new tank/healer as a means to encourage them to continue playing that role.

But if everyone did great, then I get conflicted and wish that I could give more commendations.

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I wish there was a way to fairly make sure everyone in a party get's a commendation from each other if everyone did a good job, as I view that as more fair than just one person getting all the commendations.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

I wish there was a way to fairly make sure everyone in a party get's a commendation from each other if everyone did a good job, as I view that as more fair than just one person getting all the commendations.

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I was able to do that once. But it was due to a glitch that I have not had repeated ever since.

Usually why whenever I go as a healer I stay quiet unless asked something. Yes I DPS as well, and yes I've been kicked for literally helping two BLMs with AoE in Haukke Manor.

Dunno what's up with people and their mindsets. "Healers do nothing and are boring."
Yeah, no.

Commendations are usualy for people who have shown interest to help other players, or are simply really funny and lighten up the mood. That's just me, though.

This thread reminded me of this video

I dont give my commendations to the people who do their job, i give it to the ones who go above and beyond, or if i just liked them during the run for one reason or another, if you're a nice guy you'll prolly get my commendation, if you as the Tank or healer went balls to the wall and pushed the Run to it's limits, ill commend you for it. but just because youre a healer, and did what you were supposed to do doesnt mean it's expected to get a commendation, how do you think the DPS feel?

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Originally Posted by Velox

This thread reminded me of this video

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i was just about to post that video lol

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

To put it simply, I keep people alive, free of debilitating status affects (sorry, but some status affects are honestly not even worth bothering with), have swiftcast at the ready if needed, make sure my pet is on obey to be able to use its' skills as efficiently as possible (still need help actually figuring out hotbars in FFXIV because even though I can do it successfully it's annoying and it'd be nice just to have a third hotbar I can drag the pet's skills to), and I DPS as much as I possibly can without limiting my ability to keep the party alive.

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Er.. Turn off pet hotbar and put them on normal ones via the pet section of the actions & traits menu..

The commendation system is obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

You realize that (at least in my humble opinion) to be the best healer you possibly can as a SCH that you need to put your pet on obey and use their skills on the hotbar like you'd use your own? It's no easier. It's just visually different.

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Yes I do, because I main SCH and I command Eos/Selene manually from the other side of the map because I like to also manually command where she will be. That doesn't mean I have to get a comendation for that. I'm just using what the game gives me to do my job. As well as the White Mage that manages to use his free cure wisely, the tank that don't pull more that he can handle and the DPS that manage to avoid all AoE and be safe. None of these things are com worthy.

And the thread's title isn't right either. Why do you feel like without coms you're not respected as a healer? Why not give coms to the healer is something disrespectful? I fail to get your point.

As a healer you:
- Keep people alive
- Revive whoever dies
- Smash buttons on hardcore healing
- Has the power to save a whole team

Ok, that I get.

The tank:
- Makes sure you and no one else dies because of aggro (especially healing aggro)
- Makes sure he's the only one to be focused for AoE, even though when it's impossible to be the only target.
- Has to 100% rely on the healer to stay alive even if he barely know you, so yeah, if he's not pulling the whole dungeon you ARE being respected as a healer.

The DPS:
- Makes sure to melt the targets so you, the healer, doesn't have to DPS as well (and draw even more aggro to you)
- Tries his best to avoid all possible damage so you can focus on the tank (see above).
- Has to be submissive to both the healer and the tank, since those two are commanding how the dungeon runs from start to end.

Why do you feel that, as a healer, you deserve more than the other 3 - 6 people running content with you?
I main healer and I don't want to be rude, but if the comendation were a healer-only thing, you would only be able to com healers. And that's not the case. Think at the commendation as a literal thing. If I feel I would recommend said people to run content with someone, he/she gets the com. And it has nothing to do with he/she being the healer. If the person is nice, com. If the person helps the mood during the run, also com. If the person is beyond my expectations to the role she/he queued to, com again. But if you're expecting to get comendations because you're doing what everyone expects you to do, you might get disappointed.

I'm sorry you don't feel like you're being respected as a healer, but I can assure that your "low amount" of comendations exceeds what most of the DPSes/tanks get, and those guys have the same right to get it as well.

There was one time in Leviathan Extreme. I as a WHM solo heal from the 1st tidal wave until we beat the Leviathan because the other healer took a dive. I used everything from shroud of saint to X-ethers to keep my mp up. Raising people before they fall to the sea because they can't seem to dodge the Levi dive, esuna'd people who got HEAVY debuff because they cant seem to dodge AOE, healing both tanks til i get 15 briny veil debuffs. I think i did a good job keeping them alive, but... no commendation at all. And the healer who took a dive rolled and got the mirror, when he didnt even do anything. I almost cried myself because in 20 runs, that's the only time the mirror dropped and the one that got it was that dumb (sorry) healer who couldnt even dodge AOE.

What I learn: Why should I give comms when people are doing a good job? Because they never give comms to me. Makes sense.
From that time on until now, I never give commendations to anyone anymore.
I've lost my faith to the humanity.

Hm... I'm thinking about why people give coms. And I can think of a few reasons:

1. The person was at the top/bottom of the list (this is me)
2. The person enabled them to do their job well.

Healers tend to be in charge of one thing: keeping people up. This is often just the tank, as much AoE damage can be avoided.
Tanks are in charge of setting the tempo, pulling, holding threat off DPS, and cooldown management. Basically, they affect everyone somehow.
DPS are In charge of themselves and killing things fast. Ideally they are not in charge of hp - not to say I haven't saved the day as a dos using physic.

That's just an opinion though. Like I said, I tend to just give my commendation to the guy at the top of that list.

I do think it would be interesting to see Commendation distribution statistics by role. It would be interesting to see if there is any variance based on role. My theory is that more 'invisible' roles get less comms from players who commend-on-performance, because it's harder to tell how well they are playing.

I inwardly am upset when the tanks don't get it and they all go to me - they do a good job; they have to take care of positioning, keep hate, and they dictate the tempo of the run. You always seem to look to the tank for guidance/leadership because they're the ones getting the ball started. Not sure if it's like that for everyone else.

If you want Commendations, try being friendly and explain fights, chat with the members of the party, leveling my ninja (first class) 1-50 I was able to get almost 60 commendations as a dps... which honestly i think is pretty great for a dps, just because your a healer doesn't mean people should just give you the commendations :/ DPS have to work the most for them. and Also mostly I think tanks get them cause they ar top of the list when ya click commendation it's the first option. But instead of acting like you should get them because you heal, try being friendly and helpful, bet you'll get all ya need then :/

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because being a good dps is nothing to brag about

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said every terrible dps ever

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

said every terrible dps ever

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I dunno what you're talking about! Researching which sequence of 12-24 abilities you need to be using and then committing that to muscle memory over several months and then mashing it out as quickly as you can while also performing several mechanics that, for you and your role alone are near-instantly lethal when failed, while also needing to either move as little as possible or be on top of bosses with instant kill cleaves as much as possible is easy peasy!

Oh yeah, now add target priorities and the fact that sometimes your rotation (longer and more complex than any other job's daily order-of-operations) 'breaks' due to having to swap targets or having no target at all and you have to do on-the-fly theorycraft to figure out how to compensate for that without losing too much DPS, which in some fights requires you to completely change your memorized rotation.

And let's not forget carrying around 30 billion sets of gear for one job just to be minmaxed for various accuracy caps! Provided you can even get access to them, because RNGesus hates you and didn't drop the coil piece you absolutely need this week to not be wasting 30 accuracy because the stat weights on your crappy i130 ACC/SS gear are still better than the i120 alternatives. (Okay, top-level Tanks do that too, but when was the last time you actually went "man, if only my tank had 15 more DET, we'd make this DPS check?")

Yep, DPS is so easy it's pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Krr

My theory is that more 'invisible' roles get less comms from players who commend-on-performance, because it's harder to tell how well they are playing.

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It upsets me to see a substandard play of tank or heals gets preference for commendation over an excellent DPS. I would rather wish for the excellent DPS to get rewarded for playing well than seeing a poor tank or healer get a commendation just because "nobody died".

The way that I give my commendations:

1) Attitude
2) Patience
3) Helpfulness
4) Humour
5) Knowledgeable about their role

No one should expect to get respect based on their job. People earn respect by having a good attitude, being helpful, being patient, knowing their class and by being in good spirits.

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Originally Posted by Krr

I dunno what you're talking about! Researching which sequence of 12-24 abilities you need to be using and then committing that to muscle memory over several months

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lol muscle memory.. months of learning curve..
Yeah, this game is just that hard :D

If it really took you months to get your character down, I'm sorry to hear that but it really isn't that difficult..

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing DPS specifically, just saying that the game itself is a walk in the park for the most part other than some of the knock out mechanics and the hardest part about those are the lag spikes.. There's really no difficulty coming from skill rotation or movement.

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Originally Posted by Elmeron

SNIP

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You know what's funny? I was just thinking to myself the other day how much respect is given to Healers and Tanks just because they are Healers and Tanks. Meanwhile a DPS can be doing exceptional and they'll get no love.

I'll give you an example. I was running a Trial Roulette and got Titan HM. NBD. Of course for some reason here we are well over a year removed from that even being content considered hard anymore and yet we have people dying right and left. We've got four people down. The SCH and whatever the other three DPS were. There I am on my NIN just DPS'ing away, not getting hit by anything on any of the attempts we had, healing myself up after Tumults with my Second Wind, putting up Trick Attack and key moments and there you have the WHM. To her credit, doing a solid job of solo healing the one person taking damage (the MT) and deciding to start hard casting Raise on these people who clearly can't dodge a Plume to save their life.Which then leads to a large amount of time spent NOT healing the MT who then dies. In steps little old Firelord Azula to do some tanking. Putting up Perfect Dodge at the perfect moment to totally make Titan whiff a Mountain Buster giving the Healer ample time to LB3 after telling her it would be a great idea at this particular juncture.

We end up clearing and what happens? Everyone's like, "Oh man! Great job, WHM!" No comms for me. Ultimately, I care not but I rarely run into anyone who actually gives comms based on performance. Sure, if a Healer or a Tank is exceptional, they're getting my comm. But when a DPS is playing out of their minds and the tanks and healers are still getting rewarded for it, I'm calling shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

It upsets me to see a substandard play of tank or heals gets preference for commendation over an excellent DPS. I would rather wish for the excellent DPS to get rewarded for playing well than seeing a poor tank or healer get a commendation just because "nobody died".

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Oh yeahhhhhh. You're speaking my language.

Ho well, people, get real!

It is about everyone's job:

1. Healer, will keep everyone alive
2. Tank, will get all the mobs and all the aggro
3. DPS, will burn the mobs down

When the above is matched, everyone done its own job, no one really deserves more or less. But healer and tank have more focus, because if they screw things up, a wipe is at the doors, while a sub-par DPS, will just slow things. Mobs will die, eventually, a little longer than they have to.

DPS can shine just on a few places, that are called the "dps checks". Those are the battles where what it counts, are DPS show off how good they are. And those are the battles where all pugs will FAIL. Utterly FAIL. Today all those checks are passed only because DPS are overgeared for the place. But even today, the "good" dps are still few numbers.

Tanks are requested to know every detail of the duty, every single inch of the map, and make things without any margin of error. Any tank fault is a wipe. They cannot fail.

Healers is little easier than tank, just watch health, cure, and dispel what is needed. And follow mechanics as everyone else. But again, if they mess something, a wipe is something that can easily happen. They have that burden too.

DPS is the easiest job of all. They can go in a duty totally blind, and just burn down whatever the Tanks aggroes. It is so easy job, that it is the master choice of almost everyone. Long queue times, yes, really you wonder why?

When it comes to something the DPS have to do in order to succeed on a duty, even so simple to require at least a glimpse how the mechanics are on a duty, that duty will be automatically defined as the most hard of the game.

Want proof? Really want proof??? Here is: T5