Gold Saucer outfits, gender locked?

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

That's not an immediately visually apparent

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http://i.imgur.com/bDdO5Xj.png

What's your image supposed to represent?
Also, why would an asexual, technology-loving scientist not wear a shirt? You can argue inside a self-created standard all you want, but not everyone's gonna go along with it.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Give females their own thing instead of making a very masculine character/outfit into a unisex thing, is my main point. If you want bunny outfits on males, that's your own taste, but wanting something to be copy-pasted just to fit your choices is a little much.

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Isn't that the point of vanity items and glamours?

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Originally Posted by Iveriad

Isn't that the point of vanity items and glamours?

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No, because you still can't glamour gender-locked gear or cross-class/job gear. If SE wanted you to do WHATEVER you wanted with glamour, this thread wouldn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Your character is the same gender as Setzer, therefore capable of possessing the same sexuality as him

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That's a rather disrespectful and extremely narrow-minded view of gender roles. Everyone is "capable" of possessing the same sort of "sexuality" as Setzer, whether male or female. Hell, my character looks downright masculine and even has the best approximation of a longcoat look I could get. She's certainly much closer to the Setzer style of "sexuality" than the nerdy and borderline asexual character posted in here. There isn't one style of "sexuality" for men or women to have. Hell, Faris from FF5 has a very similar style to Setzer, and there are many bishounen FF characters whose appeal relies on traditionally "feminine" traits.

tl;dr Your perspective is willfully narrow-minded, flat-up disrespectful to others, and comes across as very "stop liking what I don't like." You should work on improving that.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Give females their own thing instead of making a very masculine character/outfit into a unisex thing, is my main point.

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Dude, Setzer is just a gender-bent Faris...

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...mano_faris.jpg

Funny how we had a very similar version of his outfit worn by Faris two years before Setzer saw release and it was a "unisex" thing. Sad how Square seems to have regressed since 1992... I'm not against bunny girl outfits existing, but that it is "the" female option is absurd. More so when the male outfit is perfectly serviceable by a women based on this very franchise over two decades ago... Then there's the minor annoyance that, based on all previews for Gold Saucer, male characters get a unique outfit out of this while female characters get to dress up as employs because... Sex appeal? Seriously, did I just miss all the NPCs in the previews wearing the Setzer outfit? I certainly saw a lot of bunny girl NPCs... Would be nice if female characters at least had a comparable unique reward option, though it would be far easier to just remove the gender lock of Setzers outfit given how inane that lock is anyway.

Ideally, like plenty have said throughout this thread, this should be like the XIII event rewards. It isn't though, and the fact that it isn't despite how many months Gold Saucer has been pushed back from is kind of sadly hilarious. The easiest solution is to just let women wear the unique Setzer outfit and I don't see how that would negatively impact anyone at all...

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Setzer is a wealthy, intelligent, confident ladies man that wears his clothes as a sign of his success and skill. Seeing a catgirl run around with it would be nothing short of disgusting.

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What in the great tap dancing Jesus's in the middle of somewhere in the holy lands are you talking about?
No one gives a damn about that. People just want the costume for everyone.
I mean, you were WoL gear as a tank and he's a guy, he's costume is available to all.
What they should of done is have that unisex, have
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...2-ladyluck.jpg
or an equivalent for the males, females bunny suit. [Imo, it's cute...not sexy.]
But on the other side of the coin; this is an awful lot of tripe over a costume...I see peoples point though.
Makes no sense to make this a male only outfit...I personally think it's ugly but yeah.
I don't know what you're talking about Ippiki...I about died at your post.

I think the funniest part of all this is that Setzer is probably the first person who'd want women in his pants.

Wait... Did that come out right?

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Originally Posted by Teia

Everyone is "capable" of possessing the same sort of "sexuality" as Setzer, whether male or female.

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What's with the quotes? This reads like something off tumblr, I'm not sure if you're trying to argue "if it looks like [gender], then it is", or that calling me close-minded is supposed to change the dev's decision on this.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Dude, Setzer is just a gender-bent Faris...

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Except Faris wouldn't be caught dead in a casino or gambling hall? She was a pirate and likely visited those types of places, but she doesn't have any established connection to those types of places, let alone the Gold Saucer, in the middle of a desert.

Also, Faris is a unique exception to the gender dichotomy, since 100% of the in-game characters acknowledge her as male anyway until later. It's not a female wearing male clothes, in the universe, Faris is a man.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Except Faris wouldn't be caught dead in a casino or gambling hall?

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Oh?

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

She was a pirate and likely visited those types of places

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Kay...

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

It's not a female wearing male clothes, in the universe, Faris is a man.

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lolwut?

She was acknowledged as a man for all of an hour at most, she was "outed" very early on in the game... From there she was always referred to as a "she", even by her own Pirate crew... To quote Gilgamesh;

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Enough expository banter! Now we fight like men! And ladies! And ladies who dress like men! For Gilgamesh...it is morphing time!

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Her entire backstory was that she was Lennas lost sister. Cross-dressing doesn't suddenly switch your gender... It wasn't even a case of gender confusion or anything like that, she cross-dressed because she grew up with pirates and as a result was more comfortable in male clothing. She even wore a dress upon returning to Tycoon Castle... "Faris is a man"... You're either trolling or stupid, take your pick.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Also, Faris is a unique exception to the gender dichotomy, since 100% of the in-game characters acknowledge her as male anyway until later. It's not a female wearing male clothes, in the universe, Faris is a man.

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http://i.imgur.com/sgMPYGM.gif
Not sure if played FF5...

Someone namedropped Tumblr without even being prompted. I think that's a win on my official fora misogyny bingo card.

also itt women apparently can't have masculine expressions of sexuality or vice versa despite this being a thing gay people do all the time and a thing that gets straight people called gay

it's almost like calling that act 'disgusting' or 'insulting' is homophobic, or something, idk, hmmmmm

(in before repeating somebody's exact words is "misrepresenting")

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Originally Posted by Nalien

She was acknowledged as a man for all of an hour at most, she was "outed" very early on in the game...

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1 hour of game time =/= 20 years of pirating as a man. If you're using Faris as an example of how crossdressing is average and/or well-accepted in the FF universe, you chose very poorly.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

1 hour of game time =/= 20 years of pirating as a man. If you're using Faris as an example of how crossdressing is average and/or well-accepted in the FF universe, you chose very poorly.

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Something doesn't have to be considered average or acceptable by how characters react in game lore to exist as a theme that fits game lore.

like come on dude this is the game series where kuja exists

edit: this is also the game series that spawned a like ten year legacy of one of its most famous, renowned, and popular male main characters, spikyhair mc. bigsword, being depicted in a friggin princess outfit

So, do you feel this strongly about the Cloud armor veteran reward?

Yep, SE is 100% on board with keeping crossdressing out of their game.

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Originally Posted by Krr

Something doesn't have to be considered average or acceptable by how characters react in game lore to exist as a theme that fits game lore.

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So you're arguing how an iconic outfit, made famous by a very masculine ladies-man romantic type character, being worn by any female PC, is not only out-of-place and unacceptable by players who enjoyed that character, but IN GAME lore as well? It's odd to have people agreeing with you after having those same people call you a misogynist, but I'll take it.

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Originally Posted by Kaitekat

So, do you feel this strongly about the Cloud armor veteran reward?

Yep, SE is 100% on board with keeping crossdressing out of their game.

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I don't know if I should wear that outfit. When both genders have access to the same outfit, it confuses my weak mind and I start to lose grasp on who I am.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

No, because you still can't glamour gender-locked gear or cross-class/job gear. If SE wanted you to do WHATEVER you wanted with glamour, this thread wouldn't exist.

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Female characters can use Bestman suit.
I don't see why they can't do it with Setzer outfit.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

1 hour of game time =/= 20 years of pirating as a man.

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Ah, so you actually do think cross-dressing somehow changes ones gender. Stupid it is.

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Originally Posted by Krr

like come on dude this is the game series where kuja exists

edit: this is also the game series that spawned a like ten year legacy of one of its most famous, renowned, and popular male main characters, spikyhair mc. bigsword, being depicted in a friggin princess outfit

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Neither Cloud nor Kuja have ANYWHERE CLOSE the same character as Setzer, why are you even trying to make this comparison? It's like night and day, between effeminate girly boys, and a scarred man that abducted an opera star for a coping mechanism, during her performance.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

So you're arguing how an iconic outfit, made famous by a very masculine ladies-man romantic type character, being worn by any female PC, is not only out-of-place and unacceptable by players who enjoyed that character, but IN GAME lore as well?

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dude what? no
i'm saying that other characters' reactions to faris's appearance or gender is not relevant to his, her, or their existence as a character that is considered to be at the very least 'cross-dressing' by the game lore itself, only the fact that the game lore explicitly states that she is crossdressing multiple times. faris also presents/is presented as female by the story on multiple occasions. faris literally does not conform to binary gender norms as stated by the game, which makes it a theme in at least one of the classical final fantasy titles

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Neither Cloud nor Kuja have ANYWHERE CLOSE the same character as Setzer, why are you even trying to make this comparison?

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because you are trying to assert that gender nonconformity ('cross dressing') is somehow an inappropriate theme for the final fantasy universe, and I am telling you that it is very appropriate and in-theme for the final fantasy universe, and therefore giving women a suave gambler man jacket to represent their cool, suave, masculine sexuality is actually completely in-theme.

there are women who look like men and men who look like women all over the place, and neither is 'inappropriate' to 'game lore' because both have existed in the actual video games themselves for over an entire decade

edit point:
i'm not even saying that a reading of faris as a dude is wrong here but i'm noting that you are at the very least reading faris as transgender by doing so which is a direct contradiction of your very own idea of innate masculine/feminine sexuality that makes men or women wearing certain clothes 'inappropriate' or 'insulting' cuz multiple characters do in fact read faris as female regardless of what he/she/etc has to say on the matter

so i mean
which is it

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Neither Cloud nor Kuja have ANYWHERE CLOSE the same character as Setzer

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Cloud and Setzer are actually fairly similar, and given both their outfits are being introduced the comparison is apt. How much of Final Fantasy VII was dedicated to Clouds emotional scars he earned during his time in SOLDIER? Here you are complaining Setzers outfit is only for men while ignoring a similar outfit being dolled out for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Krr

faris literally does not conform to binary gender norms as stated by the game, which makes it a theme in at least one of the classical final fantasy titles

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What? No, being a female, and being treated as a male for all of your past, including clothing, isn't non-binary at all. Female is female, no matter how she dresses, but in Faris' case, to virtually everyone she met, she was male.

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Originally Posted by Krr

because you are trying to assert that gender nonconformity ('cross dressing') is somehow an inappropriate theme for the final fantasy universe

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I'm saying that, in context of our Setzer outfit discussion, Faris is not a good example for why it should be unisex.

Do the two characters exhibit the similar, masculine traits? Yes.
Do the two characters wear very similar clothing? Yes.
Are both characters treated as male for very long periods of time? Yes, which is my main point. It's not a woman wearing a man's clothing, it's a man who turns out for have been a female.

Do you see the difference here? It's not that there's something wrong with females exhibiting Setzer-like qualities, it's that wearing the outfit doesn't make sense within context of the gamespace, or from a thematic perspective.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Cloud and Setzer are actually fairly similar

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Cloud wearing a princess outfit for one section of the game =/= Cloud is transgender, please
Cloud does exhibit masculine traits, but none so overt as Setzer, see above

I find it hilarious how you think 20 years of non-played exposition on Faris' backstory is somehow relevant to almost the entire game. Seriously, where is this Final Fantasy V prequel where this exposition is somehow relevant?

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Cloud wearing a princess outfit for one section of the game =/= Cloud is transgender, please
Cloud does exhibit masculine traits, but none so overt as Setzer, see above

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Who's talking about Cloud cross-dressing? I'm talking about his "manly" outfit being added to this game as something female characters can wear. That being fine but Setzers being unacceptable marks you as a hypocrite among other things. Are you the head of the Setzer fanboy club or something? You seem really intent on maintaining his masculinity despite the fact that it isn't in any danger whatsoever...

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Cloud wearing a princess outfit for one section of the game =/= Cloud is transgender, please

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things I didn't ever actually say part the second

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Do you see the difference here? It's not that there's something wrong with females exhibiting Setzer-like qualities, it's that wearing the outfit doesn't make sense within context of the gamespace, or from a thematic perspective.

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okay, but now we have a cloud strife costume that's unisex and cloud strife is, again, considered one of the most masculine characters in the series

in a couple of months tops girls will literally be able to be cloud strife, who is one of the most masculine fantasies out there

also like fact check here: literally every character after the one hour mark of final fantasy V genders faris as female, and yet faris doesn't suddenly change their clothes, mannerisms, or appearance in any way except for a couple of scenes where they show up as a princess.

i'm seriously honestly, genuinely baffled as to how you can come to the (categorically) revolutionary idea that faris can be a man and expect to be treated as a man even despite what other characters throughout gameplay do and say regarding them but that characters within the game who possess similar bodies in FFXIV cannot also do the same

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Who's talking about Cloud cross-dressing? I'm talking about his "manly" outfit being added to this game as something female characters can wear.

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(that's me, as an assertation that cross-dressing and general gender oddity is a very recurrent theme in the final fantasy series, but I have no idea how that idea somehow got teleported into what you were saying in that post)

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I find it hilarious how you think 20 years of non-played exposition on Faris' backstory is somehow relevant to almost the entire game.

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It's almost like some characters are more than meets the eye, huh. It's like they're well-written or something.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'm talking about his "manly" outfit being added to this game as something female characters can wear.

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It is VERY odd that Lightning/Snow outfits were not unisex since this one is, but considering Cloud's massive icon status almost eclipsing the rest of the FF series, the fact this is a veteran reward and not an in game reward and thus has to be applicable to ANY PC, and that he really has no female equivalent to have a male/female dichotomy like with the FFXIII event(maybe Tifa?), I can see it.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

It's almost like some characters are more than meets the eye, huh. It's like they're well-written or something.

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did we....did we play the same final fantasy five

faris' gender is literally used once as a one-off gag and never actually has relevance again, most of the characters just flatly state what their next objective is, and in the most recent official translation of the game, the main villain utters the phrase "PREPARE THE GIANT MIRROR" in complete seriousness

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Originally Posted by Krr

things I didn't ever actually say part the second

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Yes, because I wasn't quoting you.

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Originally Posted by Krr

okay, but now we have a cloud strife costume that's unisex and cloud strife is, again, considered one of the most masculine characters in the series
cloud strife is, again, considered one of the most masculine characters in the series

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Are you kidding me? He's been the poster boy of downcast, androgynous, spiky-haired anime boys for decades since FFVII's release, and is still portayed that way in rereleases and spinoffs.

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Originally Posted by Krr

literally every character after the one hour mark of final fantasy V genders faris as female, and yet faris doesn't suddenly change their clothes, mannerisms, or appearance in any way except for a couple of scenes where they show up as a princess.

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You do understand a person's gender doesn't have to be forefront to everything they do, right? Having her crew/other characters make jokes/call her out on her true gender didn't really change much, she just did what she always does, which is what makes her a interesting character in the first place. Do you hate women or something so much that, when they're portrayed as strong leaders in games, it was only because of her gender status?

/nonsequiter on

This thread keeps becoming more convoluted, but at least it is about something other than the cash shop or dungeon rage.

/nonsequiter off

So on top of thinking that perhaps 5 minutes worth of exposition on Faris' upbringing (20 non-existent years) is somehow relevant compared to the entirety of the game we actually play, you also think Clouds outfit is fine because fanbois and there being no female equivalent? Despite suggesting Tifa yourself? Despite Final Fantasy XIII-3 already doing the job by offering Clouds and Aeris' outfit?

Bravo. Stupid, hypocritical, and once again stupid.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Are you kidding me? He's been the poster boy of downcast, androgynous, spiky-haired anime boys for decades since FFVII's release, and is still portayed that way in rereleases and spinoffs.

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you realize that's literally considered one of the main supermasculine forms of attractiveness in japan, right

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

You do understand a person's gender doesn't have to be forefront to everything they do, right?

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i'm telling you that the writers do not represent faris as a man. this is either because faris is a trans man and they're terrible at writing that, or faris is a woman who wears men's clothing. regardless, authorial intent is that she's a female-assigned character wearing men's clothing and showing masculine character traits.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Do you hate women or something so much that, when they're portrayed as strong leaders in games, it was only because of her gender status?

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that's a man made of straw, honey, i'm over here. you know, the one saying that women in a video game should have more forms of choice and expression for themselves

Yeah, because the hero/villain dichotomy created by Cloud's memories, a main theme of his character and one that went on to surpass a lot of other themes in the game, is worthless because it was exposed early on? And you're calling me stupid, christ.

Also, SE is a business, if they make too many people unhappy over costumes, they'll lose FAR more than losing a couple dozen customers over screwing with lore a bit.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

You bring up a decent point Nozomi, but the difference between what you want, and what the devs are trying to not totally shatter immersion with, aren't the same.

The FFXIII items are pretty bad, but at least they're gender-specific. Swimsuits are right, wedding clothing is fine(Best Man's is a bit odd, yet acceptable for females), and most of the other gear in the game is fine.

Setzer is a wealthy, intelligent, confident ladies man that wears his clothes as a sign of his success and skill. Seeing a catgirl run around with it would be nothing short of disgusting.

Of course, if there's a female gambler/entertainer character similar to Setzer, that also has a unique outfit, that would be acceptable for females instead of the bunnysuit option, but as we've seen, in the devs eyes, there isn't.

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Oh god, you're one of those "breaking immersion" people... And very obviously misogynistic to boot. How exactly did you come to the decision that female catgirls can't be wealthy, intelligent, confident, ladies' women? Maybe they want to wear the Setzer outfit as a sign of their success and skill. What you said implies that you think only men can have these traits.
What about the people who have no clue who Setzer is, huh? To those people it's just a cool looking coat, pants, and boots; what part of their gender is supposed to bar someone from wearing any of those things?
Female equivalent characters have already been mentioned.
I've noticed that the way you speak gives off this really strong air of 'what I say is fact and only my opinions are worthy'. So judge, jury, and executioner style.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

How exactly did you come to the decision that female catgirls can't be wealthy, intelligent, confident, ladies' women?

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Hell, just for the sake of discussion, my character's actually meant to be the "tall, dark, and handsome" type. That's a description usually given to male characters, but my character is female and I don't consider that this style really makes her "an exception to the gender dichotomy" or anything like Ippiki said. Butch, maybe, but that's still unquestionably female, even though she has some traditionally "masculine" traits.

Gender expression isn't binary. There's a whole spectrum there, and if that's somehow immersion-breaking, then that's the fault of the player for being unable to handle things outside a narrow worldview, not the fault of the game for presenting something the player might not see in real life very often.

And my giraffe is meant to be cool, elegant, seductive, and sultry. He's very feminine in some ways but still unquestionably male in others; I like to screw with expectations of what a masculine character can be. Part of that is done with my clothing choice ingame.

Dear SE:

FF6 has been my favorite game since 94. Setzer has been one of my favorite game characters out of any game I've played period. He's so far up on my list of favorites I have a tattoo on my left arm. And now you're telling me I can't get his jacket in this game because I play a female character.

You have no idea how hard I'm trying not to unleash so many f-bombs right now.

Has anyone mentioned that Bogatyr's longcoats with the plain long skirt is basically just a formal dress for either gender.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

A couple crossdressers whining about costumes won't show up as even the smallest blip in their stock portfolio.

Also, I'm not the most devoted FF scholar, are there ANY female characters closely associated with the casino/entertainment industry similar to Setzer, and thus worthy of representation?

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I know this post was a while back, but what about Maria? Considering the whole plot to kidnap her and Celes having having to dress as her and whatnot. Sure it'd be pretty much another dress, but it'd be much, much better than what we are getting.

Heh, that's too bad. I looked forward to wear Setzer's outfit as a glamour replacement. Oh well~

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Setzer is a wealthy, intelligent, confident ladies man that wears his clothes as a sign of his success and skill. Seeing a catgirl run around with it would be nothing short of disgusting.

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Why? Because girls can't be wealthy, intelligent, and confident? There's nothing about a colorful long coat that would make it a specifically male piece of attire. Nor is there anything about displaying wealth and confidence that would be an inherently male trait. Women will do that just as much. The outfit looks expensive enough to display wealth and flamboyant enough to display confidence, so I'm focusing on those adjectives, but if it did display intelligence or skill, then those would also be equally appropriate to women. That you would consider any of these traits in a woman to be "nothing short of disgusting" is highly disturbing.