Yoshi P, please use future development time on content other than Hildibrand.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

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you're confusing things here.

Coil, Ex primals and dungeons have a high replayability. That's a given. Nothing to say on that.

Savage Coil however... Well, it doesn't bring more than regular Coil. You get nothing there once you have the title. Its replayability regarding the availability of regular Coil is non-existent. Same rewards, more difficulty (let's call it the path of least resistance).

People go there for the challenge, for the title eventually, but they have no reason to return there after (challenge beaten and title gotten) besides the fact that they might prefer it to regular coil, thus they're making the choice to redo it when there is nothing more they can get out of it.

That's the point. The Savage Coil was released with the "do it once and be done with it" mindset. Hildibrand... is kinda the same. Except for the fact that you can go there whenever you want with whoever you want and still beat the trials because its difficulty is way lower. However, once done, there is nothing more you can get out of it. It's done.


TL;DR : Though Savage Coil and Hildi's trials have nothing comparable in terms of difficulty, they have the same replayability : You have absolutely no reason from the game's view to go there again, you only chose to do so (for fun, for challenge, for whatever). Yet the game itself doesn't encourage you to replay it.

Anybody who thinks Hildebrand should be scrapped for repeatable grinds should really look at themselves and see what they truly want out of a video game.

Hildebrand is the only comical break we have from the incredibly dull MSQ characters. I look forward to Hildebrand each and every patch because it's entertaining, over the top, and there is a lot of effort thrown into it to make it what it is.

Who cares if they're "bastardizing" characters from old games. You'd rather have Gilgamesh or Ultros be some boss in a random dungeon like Diabolos or Fenrir? I sure wouldn't.

If you honestly think a Savage Final Coil will keep you entertained I'd like to see all 4 of your Savage Turn 2 Titles.

So what most of us want is more reason to replay the difficult content as well as more content with replay value hili or otherwise?

Edit : I would personally like to see something like hili but tied to a dungeon with some replay value. Maybe throw it in the such roulette for tokens after the quest chain is complete.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

If you honestly think a Savage Final Coil will keep you entertained I'd like to see all 4 of your Savage Turn 2 Titles.

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I definitely will enjoy bashing my head in savage mode on my downtime with my friends regardless if I beat it or not in the future. It's just another way for me to enjoy the game outside of crafting/gathering/RP-ing. Why people freak out when they hear about Savage is something beyond me.

You can't honestly say how successful savage coil is until the dev team come out and tell us their analysis. You also don't see many groups on your server attempting this content because it was never catered to the mass population to begin with. In addition, Final Coil is still fresh and most players are still devoted to progressing/farming gears from it. Most raid groups including my own just don't have enough time and resource to tackle both Final Coil and Savage Second Coil at once, but like I mentioned in a previous post, with the gear upgrade from this patch, we are more encouraged than ever to revisit Savage Coil once we are finished with Final Coil.

Anyway this will be my last post seeing how futile my attempt was to change people's mind about Savage mode. Regardless of what people think, I will enjoy both Savage and Hildebrand and hope that both content receive many support from Yoshi and the dev team. I am just disappointed that the vocal forumgoers have once again shown prejudice toward good content that actually add replayability to the endgame.

So basically TC is saying

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...66/Z7HeRxU.png

I love that the OP's petition only has 3 supporters lol

Seriously. Get out.

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

I'll add onto this comment.


I honestly would rather join the Ascians at this point or the Ishgardians.
I don't feel like a hero in the main storyline at all, just an errand boy and it angers me greatly that I have to go and save a useless character that had no purpose until now (And possibly after she is saved, she'll continue being useless).

I HATE characters like this, with a description like "Oh this character has a strong unyielding will, she'll do ANYTHING to help main hero", and then does jack sh*t throughout the entire game.
https://33.media.tumblr.com/c8daec74...7o4_r1_250.gif

^See this SE? STOP IT...

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Yes, this is the issue with the fact that our character is the Chosen One(tm)(c). We face the paradox in that while most of what we do is a waste of our talents, we're the only ones who can do it. I'm not too familiar with the 1.0 storyline, but I am given to believe that in it, PCs were not super special - there were a lot of people with the Echo, and our characters were just driven enough to rise to the top, but were there are plenty of other people around who are just as talented as we were.

No more Hildibrand? Blasphemy I say blasphemy long live the Mandeville's.

He is an icon of FFXIV he's had his own Twitter page since 1.0 no I say NO. More Hildibrand I say More.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

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I don't think ppl oppose savage coil, they oppose the removal of Hildibrand...they aren't mutually exclusive, you know...
We can have both Hildibrand and savage coil. like i posted earlier, discontinuing Hildibrand, wouldn't mean that we'll get savage FCoB, instead.
they have development *slots* Hildi falls into *side-Quest* Savage, does not; as such, they aren't fighting each other over dev time.
3 month/patch, is plenty of time for both hildi and savage, so you don't have to stop one, to get the other.

Trolls using Hildi as a bait, how mischievous!!

Leave Hildi alone ! He's everyone's favorite Inspector !
And you're not forced to do his quests if you dislike him but asking to the devs to stop making more Hildi quests is outrageous!
You're egoisticaly asking to ban a community favorite storyline just because you yourselfs dislike it?

If 10000 want it why should the devs listen to 10 others ?

I am posting in support of MORE Hildibrand content!

I want more Hildibrand, not less, but I want to Devil's Advocate so I will Devil's Advocate.

I think something should be said for ensuring every major patch content isn't just a predictable pattern. Right now, it's like we have two main stories rather than vignettes that flesh the world out.
It'd be nice every so often to have other side stories like, say, the one surrounding Tam-Tara HM, but with much more meat to it. Explore a variety of moods and casts, rather than shoehorning Hildebrand in patch after patch. Let him have a break for a patch, then pop up again just as we're yearning for more. Basically, pace Hildebrand out a little and explore some of the other stories Eorzea has to tell. Surely, there's a ton of stuff you can do that don't necessarily involve the City State Rulers, the Scions, the Ascians and the Primals.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

On the contrary, our character is just the super-badass random god coming in, storming the place and going back as a hero, never failing, never doubting the righteousness of his deeds, never trying to understand more about him/herself... Nothing like a FF character imo. The scions are the FF main characters, while I feel more like the god hand who came to just solve everything because they keep getting that "game over" screen.

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Gonna have to step away from the lore perspective and go with real-time. It's been 3 years seeing these characters, and out of that 3 years the coolest thing they have done was in 1.0 fight Gauis. I am sorry, I am truly done with these characters any further use of them just reminds me that after 3 years the story has hardly progressed. It's like Inuyasha the farther the story seems to have progressed, the more bullcrap reasons why we can't just end the main scenario.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Gonna have to step away from the lore perspective and go with real-time. It's been 3 years seeing these characters, and out of that 3 years the coolest thing they have done was in 1.0 fight Gauis. I am sorry, I am truly done with these characters any further use of them just reminds me that after 3 years the story has hardly progressed. It's like Inuyasha the farther the story seems to have progressed, the more bullcrap reasons why we can't just end the main scenario.

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Having a dedicated, main story is actually a great idea. It's proven successful and LotR and SWTOR, and WoW has been slowly moving to a more story based model. The story quests help to provide focus and move people through content. The problem with ARR's main quest is essentially it's a single player plot in a multiplayer game. Even PC has the echo, every PC is the Warrior of Light. We're the most skilled, dedicated fighters in Eorzea, so everyone in the realm is counting on us to save the day, so we get stuck with a lot of playing the go-fer. It's wishful thinking, but I hope the 3.0 storyline reduces the Warrior Of Light(tm)(c)(r) importance and instead makes us "just another hero" when it comes to these major conflicts that are brewing in the land.

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

If 10000 want it why should the devs listen to 10 others ?

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Well, they seem to have listened to the 10 who wanted impossible-to-beat hard content (ie. savage coil)..... /whistle

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

If 10000 want it why should the devs listen to 10 others ?

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Majority rule, minority rights. Someone has to protect the little guy

I'd agree with disconnecting it from the trial roulette. In fact, I don't think it should automatically lock back up just because SE decided to drop a patch.

You know - I didn't get any vibes at all from Godbert when I went through the storyline. There's some characters definitely that are hinting at it - that elezen female out in one of the gridania starter areas comes to mind - but Godbert? Nah. He's just a weird dude and it's awkward to rub oil on him no matter WHO you are. It didn't make it less awkward just because I\my character sport a v. It was meant to be weird, not necessarily homosexual. It's highly amusing, however, how much gayness straight folks read into things...

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'd agree with disconnecting it from the trial roulette. In fact, I don't think it should automatically lock back up just because SE decided to drop a patch

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while I do agree with you I highly doubt the devs will change it, especially since the hildibrand quest line and all of the roulettes are 100% optional content

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

while I do agree with you I highly doubt the devs will change it, especially since the hildibrand quest line and all of the roulettes are 100% optional content

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We'll I hope you don't mind when t9 is added to the trial roulette. Coil is optional. Optional means it doesn't tie into other content. Hunts aren't a prereq for the CT line. CT isn't required to enter coil. Coil won't be a requirement for Alexander. You don't need to beat t13 to access golden saucer. You don't need a house to unlock an expert roulette dungeon. Separate shit is separate. Hildibrand is the ONLY 'optional' content that gates anything that isn't more Hildibrand. Coil only gates coil. Ex Primals only gate more primals.

just because two buckets of content are both optional doesn't make it ok to bundle them together. Phone lines, cable, and Internet are optional. But if you have to buy all 3 to get 1 then it's a lot less 'optional'n

Hildibrand gates trial roulette and (probably) golden saucer. That's the problem. Optional becomes much less optional when it gates other content. Main story is, was, and should only ever be the only gatekeeper for anything. Main scenario is the backbone and the only not optional designed aspect of the game to play it as designed.

Stop making Hildibrand an exception because his dad can throw a chimera and their faces are made of rubber.

Keeping optional content separate from each other is all I'm advocating. That's not unreasonable. Just like people bitch ed (rightfully) about needing a house to break rank 10 on choco (which they fixed). You shouldn't need a house to have a good choco. Bundling optional content is bad.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

We'll I hope you don't mind when t9 is added to the trial roulette.

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I couldn't care less either way, I don't do trial roulette.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Optional means it doesn't tie into other content.

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no optional means NOT REQUIRED.
it does not mean doesn't tie into other content, never did. trial roulette was put in there as an OPTION. IF you want to do it you have to meet the requirements for it which are only required IF you want to do trial roulette.

ALL Roulettes are completely optional in their entirety. not required to do any other content period.

Again. Just because 2 features are optional doesn't somehow make it fine to stuff them together. I'm sure we would be hearing a different tune if golden saucer was locked by t13. According to the logic people spew here, that's fine because they are both optional! No. It's not ok to bundle optional items together. People hate bundling houses and choco ranks. People have a coniption just at the idea of coil blocking anything.

Nobody cares if things they like are bundled. But if you like 1 optional item but hate a 2nd one it's tied together people loose their shit. There are people that don't like Hildebrand and, minority group or not, we should be given the same respect as every other content by not bundling it. It's not ok just because you love hildibrand.

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Originally Posted by AyrJordan

I identify as good-taste-kin and Hildibrand is offensive to me.

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I'm a little bit late, and I don't know what this post means, but the fact fact that you can claim Hildibrand is offensive to you, and yet have the signature that you do is.... interesting to me.

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Originally Posted by AyrJordan

I identify as good-taste-kin and Hildibrand is offensive to me.

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The amount of people's heads this joke has flown right over is astounding to me. He's saying that he thinks the quality of Hildebrand content is lacking.

Although I'm not quite sure why you think Hildebrand's father is "forcing the homonormative privileges of today's tumblr generation upon the FFXIV community." Pretty sure he's around for... you know... the comedy.

I mostly just skip through most of the cs to unlock the fights I read a few but its just seemed like the same thing over and over. Doesn't really matter to me what characters they use for quests.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Except those were devs's words. like, litteraly. But everyone has their opinion on that.

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Plus SCoB savage was put in as a test to see if its popularity (or lack thereof) would warrent further implentations with improved gear drops. Obviously the outcomes where under what they would call enough to warrent adding them.

Does make you think tho. If it is the original version then very minimal dev time is needed, just needs to be patched in, thus adding wouldn't take away from anything.... Then again it would probably need another turn of QA and any bugs/sploits possible to be fixed which would add to the time for implementation.

On topic:

More Hildibrand, and due to replies for and against your post, you are on the losing side ^_^. Deal wiv it! XD

I would love more Hildibrand and I have not laughed so much from a MMO ever.

Savage Mode, is probably done by a very small fraction of the entire subscriber base as well. Just look at WOW, and how many do LFR and Normal than Heroics and Mythic.

If they can balance more fun stuff for the more casual players and also give the more hardcore crowd something, its all good. But for one side to kinda demand that the thing THEY dont like themselves to be cut out of the game, is imo extremely selfish attitudes.

Remember, the game does not revolve around yourself, but everyone. And everyone seeks something different from their games. :)

Because of Hildebrand we have the Manderville dance. Therefore I support all things Hildebrand.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

We'll I hope you don't mind when t9 is added to the trial roulette. Coil is optional. Optional means it doesn't tie into other content. Hunts aren't a prereq for the CT line. CT isn't required to enter coil. Coil won't be a requirement for Alexander. You don't need to beat t13 to access golden saucer. You don't need a house to unlock an expert roulette dungeon. Separate shit is separate. Hildibrand is the ONLY 'optional' content that gates anything that isn't more Hildibrand. Coil only gates coil. Ex Primals only gate more primals.

just because two buckets of content are both optional doesn't make it ok to bundle them together. Phone lines, cable, and Internet are optional. But if you have to buy all 3 to get 1 then it's a lot less 'optional'n

Hildibrand gates trial roulette and (probably) golden saucer. That's the problem. Optional becomes much less optional when it gates other content. Main story is, was, and should only ever be the only gatekeeper for anything. Main scenario is the backbone and the only not optional designed aspect of the game to play it as designed.

Stop making Hildibrand an exception because his dad can throw a chimera and their faces are made of rubber.

Keeping optional content separate from each other is all I'm advocating. That's not unreasonable. Just like people bitch ed (rightfully) about needing a house to break rank 10 on choco (which they fixed). You shouldn't need a house to have a good choco. Bundling optional content is bad.

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There's so much to point out about your argument that... well, let's just say that you didn't think it through at all. Chimera/Hydra/HM Ifrit/HM Garuda/HM Titan, 100% optional, lengthy chain quest, yet mandatory part of the roulette. Why should I have to do those if I don't like them? Why aren't you complaining about them? Likewise, main story being mandatory to do most dungeons is ridiculous because I don't like dealing with story. Why should I have to do those? ... need I go on with -like complaining?

If you're seriously throwing a tantrum about the Hildibrand quests, then wow... you're not exactly someone any of us would want playing the game. I mean it's perfectly fine to not like the Hildibrand story, I don't think anyone thinks it's mandatory to or anything. But if you're so against being inconvenienced for skipping cutscenes and spamming through text to spend like 20min completing the solo questline to get to the Greg Trial, then that's more of a characteristic that no one here actually can respect. Especially given that you do this exact same thing for practically everything in the game lol. You can't just pick and choose your argument like you are, and expect people to listen.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

There are people that don't like Hildebrand and, minority group or not, we should be given the same respect as every other content by not bundling it. It's not ok just because you love hildibrand.

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People who don't understand what respect is, don't exactly deserve it in return. Likewise, people who don't understand the inconvenience their own stubbornness can cause to others, don't deserve respect when discussing the matter. Summed up, your argument is one of selfishness and a stubborn attitude. What would you say to someone who is making the same argument as you, but we throw out all the Hildibrand related text and replaced it with main story and Sastasha normal mode (and all the other story dungeons)? Heck, we can include the Relic related fights I mentioned in there too. Think you're going to finish any of those fights in a fast manner if they weren't part of the roulette?

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

If you're seriously throwing a tantrum about the Hildibrand quests, then wow... you're not exactly someone any of us would want playing the game.

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Uhhh, I felt that their post wasn't at all throwing a tantrum. They were just stating that Hildebrand shouldn't be a gate to other optional content. They were stating their opinion in a way that wasn't actually filled with any rage.

Funnily enough, the second part of your post seems more like a tantrum than theirs with no actual points that addressed theirs. You basically are sitting there saying, "Well, yeah, but what about this stuff!? Why don't you hate that!?" when the other stuff isn't the point. It's Hildebrand not being 100% optional.

That being said, trials should be updated with the trials that you actually do rather than a set list to ease the issue of the questline being "optional".

So... have something that only the top tier of players can enjoy...

Or have something everyone can get in on...

No i can't see why they'd choose the one that more people will actually do. Not at all.

A thousand years of Nashu!!! Oh and Hildebrand is fine too.

MORE ADVENTURES OF JOY!!

if were going to pull resources from something it should be pvp.... yea i said it

Ban op for this blasphemy

also, more Hildibrand plox!

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Originally Posted by XgungraveX

if were going to pull resources from something it should be pvp.... yea i said it

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Agreed, i want content, not time sinks.

Hildibrand quests are the best quests in the entire game. I want more!

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Originally Posted by Archadius

I love that the OP's petition only has 3 supporters lol

Seriously. Get out.

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That's already 3 supporters too many

Yes Yoshi, please add more content that I can never do because I can't find a team competent enough or patient enough to work through any of it instead of the stuff that made me smile and I could do casually on my own without requiring a fully coordinated team of elitists. /signs peti... nevermind

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Originally Posted by Illya

That's already 3 supporters too many

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Illya for president of Square Enix!

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Originally Posted by Elusana_Celah

You missed the last part of my speech where I commented about requiring a fully coordinated team of elitists. I'm not willing to play with people who well... act like you lol. So I don't get involved in it at all. Point in case? Casual content > hardcore stuff. I also wouldn't be presumptuous about my personal playing skill when you don't know me. Come to Behemoth and I'll gladly show you how I play in any content up to T9. Despite my ability to play well, fun > tolerating shitheads just for some loot and an 'experience' that is ruined by the shitheads anyways. Shitheads work both ways... people who are so bad at the game they can't get anything right no matter how hard you try to help them and people who are so serious about the game that they act entitled, mighty and just overall intolerable which is NOT an attitude you NEED to achieve victory over content.

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There are tons of groups of non-"elitists" (that makes me laugh so hard each times I see that word) players which do great on raid-content, your argumentation is invalid.

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I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find the right people who I fit in with well and blah blah. Not worth it.

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Finally.

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Originally Posted by Utsu

There are tons of groups of non-"elitists" (that makes me laugh so hard each times I see that word) players which do great on raid-content, your argumentation is invalid.

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Come on please, that excuse is overly used as... wait... this feels familiar somehow... >_>"