Hurray! Finally saved up 6mil for my personal house!

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/60152067.jpg

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This made me lose my shit xD

Honestly it doesn't help that even people who want to free up plots for FCs through selling them can't even advertise that here in the forums. They get moderated. :v

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

However it is, your ''own fault'' (choice) of being on a high population server.

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Why do people keep saying this? Don't people realize that this is an MMO? People might actually have, you know, FRIENDS on the server they are on? That it costs real dollars to transfer your account(s) to another server? That none (essentially) of your gil transfers so you can't buy a house if you transfer? That 1.0 characters didn't have a choice where they were put and were even prevented from transferring for a long while? Its such a glib response to tell someone its their fault that they just haven't up and moved to another server as if its a click of the button with no repercussions.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

It is not. However it is, your ''own fault'' (choice) of being on a high population server.

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http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...2/12/uhhhh.gif
http://i.imgur.com/lyanAoL.gif
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http://arcadey.net/wp-content/upload...Cowell-Gif.gif
Edited in order of how I look lol.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Why do people keep saying this? Don't people realize that this is an MMO? People might actually have, you know, FRIENDS on the server they are on? That it costs real dollars to transfer your account(s) to another server? That none (essentially) of your gil transfers so you can't buy a house if you transfer? That 1.0 characters didn't have a choice where they were put and were even prevented from transferring for a long while? Its such a glib response to tell someone its their fault that they just haven't up and moved to another server as if its a click of the button with no repercussions.

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Seriously.

I'd also like these people to pay for the 100+ transfers I'd need to keep my FC and friends in Linkshells. Probably 300+ to keep their friends.

Let's hope that if/when they do add more wards, that it will even be enough. Last time when they doubled it, it was still sold out within minutes of the server coming online. I still think the current housing works fine for FC's. Its a community house within a community of houses, the perfect situation. But change personal houses to be something that a player gets as a small house on a plot of land that they can expand as they have the funds to eventually have a mansion. You could invite people to your house if you wanted to do stuff and it would be a one time entry or people in a party can come in. Like in White Knight Chronicles. It could become its own mini content instead of a fluff piece. This would free up space in current wards so FC's that dont have a house yet can actually get one and then everyone would have their own house.

And ya, about it still being "my fault", lol. Like others and myself have already said, You transfer me and all 21 members of my FC (ya, we are small but good friends irl and in game) and pay the fees and find a way for me to transfer my 6mil and the 15mil that our FC saved up, along with all of our items stored in the FC bank. Again, I didnt pick Balmung, i was moved here during server mergers in 1.0 and back then it wasnt near as busy. So to sum up that comment, thanks for having no idea what you are talking about.

I don't generally see them complaining about lag anymore then NA players.
After they offer a free exodus to an empty server with all the housing wards empty. Then you may complain. Because then as a group people can choose to move freely and take whatever they want with them. Which usually happens when 2+ servers are maxed out and they make a new one. Until then anyone who blames people for being on a full server and are legacy is just rude. Unless you can prove they paid to move onto the server. I thought we were a society that generally gives people the benefit of the doubt before we blame.

From what I remember seeing we aren't going to see any house tweaks till 3.0+. There is a huge disconnect between the developers and player base about housing. Second they suggested 3.0 may have a new Sever center based in Europe. So it is possible they hope that some of the legacy servers will correct then. It does seem Balmung one of the most mentioned severs has a fairly active European player base. Will SE be able to entice them off the server.

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Originally Posted by Stormrider

Will SE be able to entice them off the server.

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I think when they add new servers at a physical location that was previously not an option they will have to offer free transfers. The only question will be, on what scale. I really hope there will be an option for a free server transfer that would transfer everything, not this 1mil gil limit BS. If they do, Me and my FC will organize to move to the lowest populated server because that is where I prefer to be.

Yay!!, good going!

I haven't bought a house. Regardless of the server or availability, they are simply too much gilded no matter how much you can make. Those millions I would just rather hold on to for future content.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Why do people keep saying this? Don't people realize that this is an MMO? People might actually have, you know, FRIENDS on the server they are on? That it costs real dollars to transfer your account(s) to another server? That none (essentially) of your gil transfers so you can't buy a house if you transfer? That 1.0 characters didn't have a choice where they were put and were even prevented from transferring for a long while? Its such a glib response to tell someone its their fault that they just haven't up and moved to another server as if its a click of the button with no repercussions.

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Because it is. ''it's your fault'' Were not the words I used. People don't have to move.
However it is a disadvantage of being on a more populated server.

In response to your question:

Why do people keep saying that this is not simply the (logical) result of being on a higher population server with the current system?

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

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How I look whenever anyone posts images/gifs without actually contributing anything to a discussion:
http://i.imgur.com/O5bos8i.jpg

Is there a reason you using the word ''fault'' tho? Because it is not anyones fault.
It is however your choice.

It is a disadvantage of being on a larger server.
You mention having a huge FC and many friends? Well good luck getting that on a smaller server..
Have you considered that you can boast about those numbers precisely because you are on a larger server with a higher population? And that precisely because there are so many FC members and friends, that there are less plots available?

I've been saving for a mansion in la noscea, but every FC has bought all the mansions and medium houses!! It says there are 3 wards with mansions for sell but I can't find them.
They really need to have a separate housing wards for FC and player housing Dx

Regardless of how you might feel about people on populated servers get what they deserved/signed up for. There is a limited amount of personal housing and it is shared with the Group content housing. This is bad design for an MMO. With only 1440 houses available for sale per server its not conductive to a game that intends to grow. How many Characters can be on a server? Cause If i have three characters on one server, I can own 6 houses or more (i don't think there is a restriction to how many plots you can own) and thats just if I have one FC house and one personal house per character. I get the feeling there is more than 1440 individual players (not including characters) even on the smallest and least populated server. I guess its a good thing not everyone is interested in housing or can afford one. Cost, though, is one thing that doesnt matter to me, not compared to availability.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Is there a reason you using the word ''fault'' tho? Because it is not anyones fault.
It is however your choice.

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Wait I'm confused.
You just said in the other post it's 'Your fault' (choice)
Also see top page of 15 in my thoughts.
I chose Balmung because it has friendly people.
Not my fault that SE has horrible http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/image...sight_Icon.png.
And we suggested instances, also why is FC/personal housing shared?
No one elses "fault" but SE's.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Wait I'm confused.
You just said in the other post it's 'Your fault' (choice)
Also see top page of 15 in my thoughts.
I chose Balmung because it has friendly people.
Not my fault that SE has horrible http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/image...sight_Icon.png.
And we suggested instances, also why is FC/personal housing shared?
No one elses "fault" but SE's.

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I think the point that other person was trying to make was that it is your choice to have gone with that, ignoring any potential consequences for doing so, regardless of how legit of a reason it may be (such as friends being there). Consumers ignoring the consequences of their actions really is a facepalm moment, regardless of any reason for doing it. It's like someone buying a fuel guzzling car, knowing full well it does that, then complaining to the manufacturer/dealership that the car is costing them too much money on gas. It's true that it does, but whose fault is it that you decided on it to begin with? lol That sort of thing.

I for one have no intention of giving SE the benefit of blaming paying consumers (whose money continues to be siphoned into projects that improve and build upon housing features) for the massive design flaw it is 100% responsible for creating.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I think the point that other person was trying to make was that it is your choice to have gone with that, ignoring any potential consequences for doing so, regardless of how legit of a reason it may be (such as friends being there). Consumers ignoring the consequences of their actions really is a facepalm moment, regardless of any reason for doing it. It's like someone buying a fuel guzzling car, knowing full well it does that, then complaining to the manufacturer/dealership that the car is costing them too much money on gas. It's true that it does, but whose fault is it that you decided on it to begin with? lol That sort of thing.

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Amen to this.

Ps. All servers have friendly people on it...not just Balmung though they are the most outspoken bunch on these forums due to their quantity.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I think the point that other person was trying to make was that it is your choice to have gone with that, ignoring any potential consequences for doing so, regardless of how legit of a reason it may be (such as friends being there). Consumers ignoring the consequences of their actions really is a facepalm moment, regardless of any reason for doing it. It's like someone buying a fuel guzzling car, knowing full well it does that, then complaining to the manufacturer/dealership that the car is costing them too much money on gas. It's true that it does, but whose fault is it that you decided on it to begin with? lol That sort of thing.

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I get what he is saying. But not all of us chose to go there or when we did choose, it wasnt the overpopulated place it has become. So, I was there when it was relatively uncrowded then it became over populated. Would that then make it my fault and the onus is on me to move somewhere less crowded?

The argument makes sense assuming it was busy and crowded when you chose to make a character there.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

The argument makes sense assuming it was busy and crowded when you chose to make a character there.

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In your case, it doesn't make sense, however there are so many cases where that is the case. People move to Balmung or constantly complain to open it and then they come back and complain about something like housing.
With that being said, sorry that your server became a crowded monster.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Amen to this.

Ps. All servers have friendly people on it...not just Balmung though they are the most outspoken bunch on these forums due to their quantity.

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I've been on 3 dif servers and Balmung felt more home to me, that's why I'm here. I'm not going to up a leave a server that I love and the people in it.
I still can't wrap my mind as to "Well, you chose it knowing this and that..."
Actually, no, I didn't. I didn't know that housing was shared with FC housing too. Nor did I know it was going to be "Get there in 10 mins or you're screwed!"
Didn't know it'll be so much gil either to the VERY last minute. Then they assumed everyone on x server had millions of gil.
Very unfair to the soloist that tried to save up cash only for FC people
or a group to take it. They had many...many months to do this well and they screwed up. Simple as that.
Seems to me they forgot about it and went "Oh! Let's just open FC house to the masse!"
That's it.

Next time, take a looksee on how other MMO's do housing. We won't have this problem or at least listen to the feedback given.
They just did everything completely wrong here.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I get what he is saying. But not all of us chose to go there or when we did choose, it wasnt the overpopulated place it has become. So, I was there when it was relatively uncrowded then it became over populated. Would that then make it my fault and the onus is on me to move somewhere less crowded?

The argument makes sense assuming it was busy and crowded when you chose to make a character there.

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That's very true, but it still remains that the choice was yours to make originally (essentially saying that it was a bad choice under the given context). Just as you have no power over who joins the server, SE has no moral power as well. It's true that it's their decision to put in varying prices and other things for system controlled expenses, but that's their design goal to limit things such as what the rich can potentially do within reason in an economy that is typically easy to make a certain amount of reasonable gil for the server.

While you can point fingers at another, and are often justified to do so, it is also very bad ethics to ignore some degree of personal choice, consequence, and responsibility (where possible). In some cases, particularly if you started with ARR, one sign of heavy server load is legacy servers and popular names. Not always applicable, but it's a good starting point for determining consequence of joining a particular server (even if it's just as minimal as queue times to get in).

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

That's very true, but it still remains that the choice was yours to make originally (essentially saying that it was a bad choice under the given context). Just as you have no power over who joins the server, SE has no moral power as well. It's true that it's their decision to put in varying prices and other things for system controlled expenses, but that's their design goal to limit things such as what the rich can potentially do within reason in an economy that is typically easy to make a certain amount of reasonable gil for the server.

While you can point fingers at another, and are often justified to do so, it is also very bad ethics to ignore some degree of personal choice, consequence, and responsibility (where possible). In some cases, particularly if you started with ARR, one sign of heavy server load is legacy servers and popular names. Not always applicable, but it's a good starting point for determining consequence of joining a particular server (even if it's just as minimal as queue times to get in).

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Ya, I came from 1.0 and was merged from my original server into Balmung. I think one of the main reasons that Balmung is so full and so popular is it is the unofficial RP server. When you google RP servers on FFXIV that server comes up. If SE were to have added a small little tag to one or two servers per data base that simply reads (RP) then there might be less overcrowding of Balmung. Design choices i guess. Personally, when I play MMO's like this i prefer to pick the least populated server, I dont like the highly populated ones.

All I'm trying to say is that to blame someone for this ignores so many other situations. Also if you were on a high populated server before the Housing details were released, how can you account for that? Well, this is the situation I'm in, I can accept that. As stated when I necroed this thread, I'm just hoping to put this back on the dev's team radar to consider going forward now that the dev team doing Golden Saucer is done introducing the content. A while back they said they wouldnt look at housing again until GS was complete because it was the same team doing both projects.

I'm not mad at not having a house, disappointed maybe but not mad and this is the only thing about this game I have every really seriously complained about. Other than that, i'm kinda one of those annoying white knights.

Hell there are still people with there First Name FFXI server name. Those people are from day 1 1.0. Unless you can prove that they are not legacy merged into Balmung I think you are being a little mean. I would say 3/4 of the actual people I know are 11ers. Of course they are also big group of whiners about some stuff. They are not to blame for over population and the LIE that was housing. Yes I said LIE.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Ya, I came from 1.0 and was merged from my original server into Balmung. I think one of the main reasons that Balmung is so full and so popular is it is the unofficial RP server. When you google RP servers on FFXIV that server comes up. If SE were to have added a small little tag to one or two servers per data base that simply reads (RP) then there might be less overcrowding of Balmung. Design choices i guess. Personally, when I play MMO's like this i prefer to pick the least populated server, I dont like the highly populated ones.

All I'm trying to say is that to blame someone for this ignores so many other situations. Also if you were on a high populated server before the Housing details were released, how can you account for that? Well, this is the situation I'm in, I can accept that. As stated when I necroed this thread, I'm just hoping to put this back on the dev's team radar to consider going forward now that the dev team doing Golden Saucer is done introducing the content. A while back they said they wouldnt look at housing again until GS was complete because it was the same team doing both projects.

I'm not mad at not having a house, disappointed maybe but not mad and this is the only thing about this game I have every really seriously complained about. Other than that, i'm kinda one of those annoying white knights.

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Yeah, I mean that's certainly a fair argument, and you're more than welcome to give it a shot at hoping the devs continue to look at the situation and change things as needed.

I am right there with you on preferential server being lower population. I used to be on Balmung during 1.0, and decided to just start anew with ARR on Leviathan. Mind you, I did choose Leviathan specifically because friends I know chose it, but if they stayed on Balmung, I still would have jumped ship lol. I understand how that limits me, but I weigh the consequences to my preferential benefit, and it works out for the best. I do that to avoid any potential problems which, even now, were bound to the fact that a lot of people = harder to get things before others.

As you mentioned, none of us knew about the housing scarcity, but it was still something that I understood could happen in general (the scarcity aspect of any content), and so I made the decision that I did. Again, be it with friends or not, I would have done it and understood what it meant to leave as well as what it meant if I stayed. That's essentially what I'm getting at about understanding and taking responsibility for your own personal decisions, regardless of any foreseeable future.

I was just under the false impression, probably from my own desires for the content, that Personal housing would have been totally separate from FC housing, not shared. I just hope that we can either double the current amount of housing, get instanced personal homes, or a free server transfer when they add the EU servers. I'll happily move but I will need to move at bare minimum 4 accounts personally and I don't really want to pay (My account and 2 kids and wife's accounts) that or try to convince the rest of the FC to move on their dime. until then I will suffer and continue to accept the choice I made not to fork out $80 - $400 to transfer everyone.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I was just under the false impression, probably from my own desires for the content, that Personal housing would have been totally separate from FC housing, not shared.

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Not a false Impression, that's what they said until the housing patch came.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

In your case, it doesn't make sense, however there are so many cases where that is the case. People move to Balmung or constantly complain to open it and then they come back and complain about something like housing.
With that being said, sorry that your server became a crowded monster.

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Said it better then I did.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

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That would of solved a lot of issues with housing I can imagine. Altho I'm personally of the opinion that FC housing should be available to all (autogenerating, imo with plotsize actually changing depending on how much you are willing to invest) with personal housing similar to now; but their own wards that don't have FC owned houses.
On top of that I feel that the amount of wards should really be dependant on the server population. Sure, higher prices makes sense; but not also have more wards available?

While I'd like to see numbers of wards be server related (same for low pop, a lot more for higher pop); I do still feel that personal houses should be luxury tho.(in price/total availability)
Altho we'll probably disagree with that one since im more of a black knight then a white knight :P

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

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What you said makes sense i guess. I have no problem with Personal Housing costingmillions or billions of gil, in the end it can be attainable if you work hard enough. But if you have the gil and there are no houses available then it's not a luxury, it's how hardcore are you when we were told this is casual content. Casual people don't always have the funds right away or are willing to log in at 3am just to buy the house.

I do agree with the high pop vs low pop for ward avaliability, but that would have to be adjustable over time. Where as instanced personal houses would be on a "per use" basis. build the server with X capacity, when it gets 90% full, add another server. Less wasted resources this way?

Hmm. I'm not sure what position to take on that. On one hand I like how personal houses right now are only half instanced; you still share the neighbourhood with others. And you can see your house + garden inside of a larger area. On the other hand, if they arent fully instanced it does limit their availability in numbers. I think (personally) I would prefer a fixed number of plots for personal housing. Just a heck of a lot more for larger servers.

On the smaller servers the only real hurdle to get a house is to save the gil for it. I think that might be what they initionally intended; a balance between availability and the prices being really high so anyone that didnt really want one would be put off by high prices.
But they either underestimated how many people really wanted one, or did their calculations wrong.


If they said housing was for casuals tho, well with the current system thats just not true. While purely on prices I would agree that a small house (or a medium, but that depends on the serverl due to price differences) is perfectly affordable for a casual player..
there just arent enough plots on the larger or medium servers for that to be truly the case.

I hope they do change the plot availability for larger or medium servers in the future, but at the same I'd also prefer if they kept smaller ones similar to how it is. (perhaps change Goblet livability tho)
They could really put more thought into the amount of plots available/population, at the very least.

Part of the problem with the Legacy servers and the most heavily populated ones is that they had more gil to begin with - which is why their prices were substantially higher than the lower population servers. Lamia is a high population server with a LOT of low levels (soooo many sprouts every day) so we might be facing a similar housing crisis as the big money big population servers by the time 3.0 comes out.

Maybe they could add in some instance houses/gardens as part of Dravania? Not quite the established neighborhoods of the main game, but something so that people could still decorate the interior and have a small allotment for decoration and gardening.

Cost is not my issue. Availability is. What good does 60mil do if you arent the first one to the plot? I thought we had chocobo racing for this.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

I was just under the false impression, probably from my own desires for the content, that Personal housing would have been totally separate from FC housing, not shared. I just hope that we can either double the current amount of housing, get instanced personal homes, or a free server transfer when they add the EU servers. I'll happily move but I will need to move at bare minimum 4 accounts personally and I don't really want to pay (My account and 2 kids and wife's accounts) that or try to convince the rest of the FC to move on their dime. until then I will suffer and continue to accept the choice I made not to fork out $80 - $400 to transfer everyone.

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You're completely justified to have assumed what you did, but it was still just an assumption lol. In an ideal situation, it really shouldn't come down to the better option being to move multiple accounts, but that's just dependent on how important the matter is to you. Personally, I'd just say to tough it out where you are to save on costs (since moving for housing wouldn't be worth the price IMO). Eventually, either the wards will free up here and there or the devs will add more. They have to, it's just that it may not happen until 2.55 or after expansion (don't expect it to be on expansion release, due to the new content). Heck, they may even open up a housing ward in Ishgard in the future lol.

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Originally Posted by Tam_Hawkins

Not a false Impression, that's what they said until the housing patch came.

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I'm pretty sure they didn't say anything about personal housing getting its own wards. If I remember right, all they said was that they would be adding wards in light of personal housing (does not mean they're exclusively for that purpose nor that they are to cater every player). Along with the mention that costs would be separate, which they weren't and can definitely be caught as a lie on that one, since there was no follow up comment on such a change. As someone that plays the economic game often, it comes as no surprise, but still a little deceitful to not remember/care to update on the matter since the raise in economic values hadn't changed for months by the time the patch released.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You're completely justified to have assumed what you did, but it was still just an assumption lol. In an ideal situation, it really shouldn't come down to the better option being to move multiple accounts, but that's just dependent on how important the matter is to you. Personally, I'd just say to tough it out where you are to save on costs (since moving for housing wouldn't be worth the price IMO). Eventually, either the wards will free up here and there or the devs will add more. They have to, it's just that it may not happen until 2.55 or after expansion (don't expect it to be on expansion release, due to the new content). Heck, they may even open up a housing ward in Ishgard in the future lol.

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For sure! I'm not moving all of us because There would also be the matter of trying to move the gil when there is a 1mil gil limit for transfer, It wont work to transfer the 15+mil our FC has saved up along with the 8+mil I now have let alone what everyone else has in their pockets. It's just not feasible to move us all, not at this point. I'm pretty sure we wont see new wards until, the earliest, 3.0 release or maybe 3.1. We wont see anything more come for wards before then. As for Ishgard, they said there wont be housing for there, "at least not at first", so I think it will be like Mor Dhona and evolve over the course of the expansion and maybe near the end we will have a new place to call home. It will happen, its just a matter of time and I can be patient.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Cost is not my issue. Availability is. What good does 60mil do if you arent the first one to the plot? I thought we had chocobo racing for this.

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It was and still is cost on our server. Everyone had started from scratch on 2.0. Sure, a few mansions sold to big FCs within the first few days, but we were the second people in a small house in our neighborhood in Ward 2 in Mist when we first bought it a few weeks after housing came out, and we were still able to buy a mansion almost six months later. Lamia has a raiding economy, I think, so those handful of us that make our millions off crafting had almost total control of housing from the beginning.

But at least if you came up with the money, you can get a house. because they are available.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

But at least if you came up with the money, you can get a house. because they are available.

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Benefit to either starting on a non-legacy 2.0 server or moving to that type of server, unfortunately for the legacy server peeps who were there from the beginning. the servers in general though are supposed to have good and bad points so that people can see where they wanna be. You see a server that's locked frequently...you really wanna go there?? @.@

Hopefully moving forward, SE can figure out a better solution to housing that doesn't keep eating server space and prepares for the fact that some servers are just full on up. They could also lock Balmung forever like Bahamut was on FFXI. It was locked for good. People squeezing through the gates of Balmung doesn't help anyone.

I wonder if it would be an accurate analogy to compare the housing situation to the relic weapons. What would people say if there were only X number of relic weapons avaliable per server. So, only the first 1500 players to earn a weapon would get one and you had to wait for someone to toss or sell their weapon for another player to get one.

Well I didn't express myself very well lol

I added a few more things to my OP, Hopefully I'm not repeating myself too much. I think with 3.0 on the horizon, we need to know if new players will be able to get houses or will they be locked out of all the new content behind a wall of first-come-first-served.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I'm pretty sure they didn't say anything about personal housing getting its own wards. If I remember right, all they said was that they would be adding wards in light of personal housing (does not mean they're exclusively for that purpose nor that they are to cater every player).

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SE didn't handle player expectations well on this feature ("While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.").

I've got a lot of good things to say about SE's development and communications people , just not on this subject.