Should we be limited to only one craft class?

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

No you gave me semantics.

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Thought you were done?

Listen buddy... IF i can not use EVERYTHING on EVERY craft no matter how many crafts i rank then thats limiting... no ways around it.
I do not want ti be limited.

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Originally Posted by Sav

"Facts" are always subject to individual interpretation. Just because one follows from the other does not make it indisputable. Honestly, all we can gather is that this so-called "mastery" of a craft is not limited to rank 50.

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exactly the point of fact #2

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

No you gave me semantics.

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no i showed you were i based my post on, and not in a wild idea of what specializations are that you came up with (wich btw i like very much)

You cannot use all spells and abilities on any War/Magic class, you are being limited.
You cannot use all spells and abilities on any Job, you are being specialized and promoting strategic play styles

You cannot use any recipe on any tool, you are being limited.
You cannot use all recipes in the game, you are being specialized and are creating a dynamic and competitive world economy.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

You cannot use all spells and abilities on any War/Magic class, you are being limited.
You cannot use all spells and abilities on any Job, you are being specialized and promoting strategic play styles

You cannot use any recipe on any tool, you are being limited.
You cannot use all recipes in the game, you are being specialized and are creating a dynamic and competitive world economy.

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Please just stop, i told you , the specialization idea you have is awesome , but stop putting it on every single page, i get it already , but that have nothing to do with the topic here.
I dont give a cow ass to be limited or restricted.
What i do not want is to pay extra cash to be able to have more than 1 (lets use your words)

Specialization.

get it ?
I did it before and didnt like it , dont want to repeat it.

I would prefer that players are only able to choose 1-3 DoH and 1 DoL class. This would require more interaction amongst players instead of a few more months down the line where each linkshell has one dedicated master crafter with everything maxed, and requires no outside resources.

Sorry, I misunderstood the post. ^^

First off they aren't my words, they are American English's words. Second off, I understand, and I'm trying to point out that you shouldn't have to if implemented the correct way, sure (if you use my examples and place the 1 spec per character idea on it) then theoretically you'd have to 3 separate characters in order to make an airship, but team work is essential in a MMO or you just have a single player game, no?

My whole point was that just because you specialize in whatever the Blacksmith craft will be called, doesn't mean you won't be able to get Weaver to 100 as well or what not, in fact if SE were clever they SHOULD let us do that because it means we'll be playing the game for longer, and from a business prospective it means that they get more money in their pockets. I guess the point is your facts lead it to assume to take a FFXI style approach, which I don't think it will, as they have stated time and time again, they don't plan on making FFXIV into XI-2.

Expect to see specialization to being able to craft something much bigger than just weapons, armor and jewelry, as more than likely we'll all still be able to make those, but instead the specialization will allow us to make things that are not yet in the game; houses, airships, boats, guild halls, etc. That was all I was trying to point out; that's all. If you really think that means you are going to be limited and cause you to have to buy a mule then I guess so be it (but I feel that group crafting for the bigger items seems like so much fun and gives some more content to the snooze feast that is synth-grinding).

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

First off they aren't my words, they are American English's words. Second off, I understand, and I'm trying to point out that you shouldn't have to if implemented the correct way, sure (if you use my examples and place the 1 spec per character idea on it) then theoretically you'd have to 3 separate characters in order to make an airship, but team work is essential in a MMO or you just have a single player game, no?

My whole point was that just because you specialize in whatever the Blacksmith craft will be called, doesn't mean you won't be able to get Weaver to 100 as well or what not, in fact if SE were clever they SHOULD let us do that because it means we'll be playing the game for longer, and from a business prospective it means that they get more money in their pockets. I guess the point is your facts lead it to assume to take a FFXI style approach, which I don't think it will, as they have stated time and time again, they don't plan on making FFXIV into XI-2.

Expect to see specialization to being able to craft something much bigger than just weapons, armor and jewelry, as more than likely we'll all still be able to make those, but instead the specialization will allow us to make things that are not yet in the game; houses, airships, boats, guild halls, etc. That was all I was trying to point out; that's all. If you really think that means you are going to be limited and cause you to have to buy a mule then I guess so be it (but I feel that group crafting for the bigger items seems like so much fun and gives some more content to the snooze feast that is synth-grinding).

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Im sorry but i dont give a cow ass about their business perspective.
I work my ass off for my money and i do not think is right to give an "advantage" to someone for having multiple characters.

if you can not understand this then im done debating.Besides you jump from one thing to the other , what exactly are we talking about anymore , i got lost from facts that werent facts acording to you , to being good to have locked out classes per char ?.

And wth does it have to do what country your words are from . Are we being racist there buddy?.

Your system is fine as long as you arent locked out to one specific class (please dont make me say specialization/class7whatever every single time ,stop being such a semantics nazy)and is exactly what this says.
In future crafter will be restricted/allowed to master 1 class only

I dont think this is even up for discussion.

wow i hope this gets answered. Ill be honest ima rank 50 MRD im not even a main craft class so it only effects me a little bit. However i would like a dev or rep in here to at least ask them are we gonna be limited to one or 2 classes to master them...

this would be really helpful because then i would put my effects into one class only. right now i have BSM and GLD on rank 35 ...... i would like to stop wasting my time if i wont be able to max them.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Im sorry but i dont give a cow ass about their business perspective.
I work my ass off for my money and i do not think is right to give an "advantage" to someone for having multiple characters.

if you can not understand this then im done debating.Besides you jump from one thing to the other , what exactly are we talking about anymore , i got lost from facts that werent facts acording to you , to being good to have locked out classes per char ?.

And wth does it have to do what country your words are from . Are we being racist there buddy?.

Your system is fine as long as you arent locked out to one specific class (please dont make me say specialization/class7whatever every single time ,stop being such a semantics nazy)and is exactly what this says.
In future crafter will be restricted/allowed to master 1 class only

I dont think this is even up for discussion.

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yea he is something esle i BEEN stopped read Wall-O-text.

Lets just get an answer here from the devs.

Its not really about being a Nazi about it, it's about making sure information is being correctly dispersed, if that's too much to ask then sadly this forum will constantly be plagued with arguments risen from miscommunication...I am constantly editing my posts to accurately portray what concepts I am speaking about like Level =/= rank (at this moment anyway), Jobs =/= classes, but I digress.

And no, I wasn't being a racist, but you claimed that specialization was my word, when it's not, it belongs to the American English language (or British English, but I used -ize spelling so it would really be the American English). I was being literal, not a racist.

DNO you can choose to read or not read what people say, but I'm sure you will miss out on some gems of dialogue. Both of you bring up valid points of not wanting to be "limited" through specialization, and sure I would be a little upset if I were playing a single player game, but XIV is not, and therefore you need to have specialization in order to promote a lively economy. I'm truly sorry (and I am being sincere about this, I'm not being sarcastic) if you feel you have to purchase another character to play the game.

Also, why should crafters be able to do all the high level stuff all by themselves?
DoMs and DoWs also have to cooperate in a party to beat high level content, don't they?

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Originally Posted by DNO

LIkE this if you want SE to LIMIT us to one class per character then if you want to rank another craft up you must pay for a mule

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I agree that your wording here is extraordinarily biased, preventing people from wanting to choose it. Please change this to say:

"LIKE this if you want SE to only allow ONE crafting class per character to reach the highest possible rank, once a true endgame rank has been implemented."

..That is, if you aren't afraid of what people really think of your challenge. I suspect some votes may change sides.

Luckily, people at SE aren't so dumb as to fall for a rigged poll.
The second option is worded in a way that it's not even a valid option.

Heck, even I had to read twice to understand what he meant.

@OP
First, learn how to make a poll that actually asks people about what you are interested in.

He should honestly should reword it to read "Like this if you want SE to allow us to specialize/master in one craft but are still able to reach the final rank/level of all the other classes."

and "Like this if you don't want crafting classes to become specialized/mastered and still are able to reach the final rank/level of all the other classes."

These are unbiased statements and pertain to the information we are currently aware of. I agree with you Duuude, he is making incredibly biased statements and skews his audience to like his idea rather than putting all the cards on the table so to speak.

Useless poll; luckily SE will see through the ruse.

I think it's necessary that you can only master one class, and limit the ranks of the rest.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

well lets look at a few facts

yoshi wont delevel crafters, so those of us with tons of 50s wont lose anything if its a level thing
leveling to 50 doesnt mean anything if you cant synth everything because only "masters" can do so

so someone who is a master blacksmith, can do master recipes, but cant do master recipes for lets say...alchemy
but they can still do the regular recipes.

theres also the fact we will see level caps in the future, and perhaps you have to specialize to go higher up? who knows


but as it stands now, they said its a low priority so i dont think they know how they even wanna approach it when the time comes, and they arent even worrying about it at al(If it even happens at all)

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This is exactly how I hope they do it, they can release a quest line to increase your craft rank above 50 (when they go that route) and for the time being they can have "master synths" which allow specializations to be introduced sooner then when lvl cap goes up.

I am 100% in favor of limiting your crafts as long as it still provides a benefit for the ppl who already have multi rank 50 crafts now.

for the last time I'm not chaging the poll don't like it? don't post. its clear if 1 craft per person is true u will need a mule that's a fact (if you do not want to be limited to 1 craft you will need a mule just like you guessed it FF11)

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Its not really about being a Nazi about it, it's about making sure information is being correctly dispersed, if that's too much to ask then sadly this forum will constantly be plagued with arguments risen from miscommunication...I am constantly editing my posts to accurately portray what concepts I am speaking about like Level =/= rank (at this moment anyway), Jobs =/= classes, but I digress.

And no, I wasn't being a racist, but you claimed that specialization was my word, when it's not, it belongs to the American English language (or British English, but I used -ize spelling so it would really be the American English). I was being literal, not a racist.

DNO you can choose to read or not read what people say, but I'm sure you will miss out on some gems of dialogue. Both of you bring up valid points of not wanting to be "limited" through specialization, and sure I would be a little upset if I were playing a single player game, but XIV is not, and therefore you need to have specialization in order to promote a lively economy. I'm truly sorry (and I am being sincere about this, I'm not being sarcastic) if you feel you have to purchase another character to play the game.

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Yet you choose to ignore everything i say and go into semantics to make my point less valid.
Are you gonna debate about the subject at hand or your gonna stick to semantics ?.
Completely ignoring the debate.Only going on and on about your theory of what classes should be and that is pure speculation of whatever theory you came up with.

facts are facts, if you wish to be at the top with more than 1 craft you have to reroll, can you comment on this instead of hand picking what you want to say to make yourself look intelligent?

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Yet you choose to ignore everything i say and go into semantics to make my point less valid.
Are you gonna debate about the subject at hand or your gonna stick to semantics ?.
Completely ignoring the debate.Only going on and on about your theory of what classes should be and that is pure speculation of whatever theory you came up with.

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hes a joke its so funny.

I also find it funny tat they believe i am so crafty with my words that i completely brain washed people into voting LMAO (i have DA POWER!!!!). i guess people are so stupid according to them that they can not think on their own unless i word it correct!!!! lmao!

I really believe people are smart and understand that if you want to master each craft and u are limited to 1 craft THEN YOU NEED A MULE!!

How esle can i word it?

O well im not changing it so i guess i will stop here of the title but the thread will keep going!!!!

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I think it's necessary that you can only master one class, and limit the ranks of the rest.

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Why?
thats why we are here. to debate why.

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Originally Posted by DNO

hes a joke its so funny.

I also find it funny tat they believe i am so crafty with my words that i completely brain washed people into voting LMAO (i have DA POWER!!!!)

I really believe people are smart and understand that if yo want to master each craft and u are limited to 1 craft THEN YOU NEED A MULE!!

How esle can i word it?

O well im not changing it so i guess i will stop here of the title but the thread will keep going!!!!

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fact is in any different community players would be outraged to have to pay more.
but sheeps here are to blind by the pink glasses to understand what the real issue is.

I swear if SE manufactured Iron for food they would say how good is iron for your body and that you need to buy metal tooth to eat it or go back to wow and stop complaining.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I think it's necessary that you can only master one class, and limit the ranks of the rest.

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So you would be ok if you could only be WHM and never be a BLM or PLD?

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Originally Posted by Darium

So you would be ok if you could only be WHM and never be a BLM or PLD?

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according to him yes.

Which is not fair for crafters who joined the game to craft....

It's an attempt at instigating an economy where people need to trade for the best stuff. You'll probably be able to level every class to a decent point, then focus beyond that ala FFXI.

Makes sense to me, I hope it means they'll give crafters some better rewards for their investment beyond said cutoff point.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

fact is in any different community players would be outraged to have to pay more.
but sheeps here are to blind by the pink glasses to understand what the real issue is.

I swear if SE manufactured Iron for food they would say how good is iron for your body and that you need to buy metal tooth to eat it or go back to wow and stop complaining.

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Trust me i agree with your every word i understand.

Fact is if it worked in EVERY OTHER GAME people are blind and can not think of any sort of change.

"If it worked in FF11 it HAS to work here"

Thats why i needed to make this thread some ideas are not always beeter in FF11

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Originally Posted by Sephr

It's an attempt at instigating an economy where people need to trade for the best stuff. You'll probably be able to level every class to a decent point, then focus beyond that ala FFXI.

Makes sense to me, I hope it means they'll give crafters some better rewards for their investment beyond said cutoff point.

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is this the only way to do this? i mean crafters make loads of money now.


See this is what i do not get. Some people say on the economy is bad yet the same person says they made millions of of low level crafts. If you are making money that means you are selling so the system works.

The only problem is SE gave out way to much gil IMO. ITs not that people have to many crafts leveled.

In fairness unless its lost in this thread, When did they say they would change what we can currently do?

Were getting Jobs, maybe they will have limits on them in some way, we dunno yet do we.
(though i would admit that kinda undose the whole point of the armoury system but still)
Id prefer being limited to some degree with crafting though and given the newer crafting skills coming are in, could it not be something like master of magical crafting or meteria or this or that as an addition to the basics we have now.

You never know we might get all that economy stuff working (well a bit) if people have to work together for the best equipment..?
Just pondering anyway.

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Originally Posted by DNO

hes a joke its so funny.

I also find it funny tat they believe i am so crafty with my words that i completely brain washed people into voting LMAO (i have DA POWER!!!!). i guess people are so stupid according to them that they can not think on their own unless i word it correct!!!! lmao!

I really believe people are smart and understand that if you want to master each craft and u are limited to 1 craft THEN YOU NEED A MULE!!

How esle can i word it?

O well im not changing it so i guess i will stop here of the title but the thread will keep going!!!!

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Yes you are crafty and influencing people into voting for the 1st option. I would vote for the 1st option as well if I didn't have a brain and had to ability to think. What you are suggesting is:

1- keep the current system
2- be able to only LEVEL one craft to max

The #2 is clearly less attractive BUT nowhere did they said that "mastering" a class would be the ability to level it to max level. You most likely will still be able to level all DoH classes to max but mastering one will allow you to craft special recipes.

Where is your vote option for that?

This thread is really awful anyways, you never seem to read what countless people are writing about the fact that you need to calm yourself and that you are basing all your debate on something that you don't know the specifics and that was not even confirmed.

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Originally Posted by Esk

You never know we might get all that economy stuff working (well a bit) if people have to work together for the best equipment..?
Just pondering anyway.

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I agree, you should have to work together for the best stuff BUT that does not mean limiting crafting ranks. Just like you need a party of combat classes to kill the high rank mobs, you should have to have a party of crafters for the high rank synths.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

The #2 is clearly less attractive BUT nowhere did they said that "mastering" a class would be the ability to level it to max level. You most likely will still be able to level all DoH classes to max but mastering one will allow you to craft special recipes.

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Agreed, mastering a class might have nothing to do with ranks, along the same lines as jobs for combat classes. However, would you still be for the job system if SE told you you could only choose 1 job? How would you like to have to choose between being a BLM forever or being a PLD forever?

I'd rather SE try to explain their reasoning than have us guess.

I personally would be ok with it, as I plan on only ranking up blacksmithing and anything else would simply be supporting BSing.

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Originally Posted by Darium

I agree, you should have to work together for the best stuff BUT that does not mean limiting crafting ranks. Just like you need a party of combat classes to kill the high rank mobs, you should have to have a party of crafters for the high rank synths.

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You too need to stop using your "limiting ranks" argument. It wasn't explained anywhere nor was it confirmed and I don't think that that's how they would implement a "mastering" of the class. It make far more sense with the current system that you would still be able to level your crafts to max level, but would only be able to master one which you give you access to special abilities.

I like your idea of crafting parties though and maybe that's why you would need to master a craft to be able to participate in special party crafts. Who knows.

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Originally Posted by Darium

Agreed, mastering a class might have nothing to do with ranks, along the same lines as jobs for combat classes. However, would you still be for the job system if SE told you you could only choose 1 job? How would you like to have to choose between being a BLM forever or being a PLD forever?

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Well in my opinion they could let you be every job but only master one. Which I would be OK with as well. The same as being able to level all DoH classes but master only one.

They can implement a quest to "unmaster" a DoW/DoM job or a DoH class if you feel unhappy with it afterwards.

Edit: Same goes for DoL, they could let everyone be every DoL but master only one which would allow them to find rare mats while gathering.

So every char could be every classes/jobs but could only master 1 Job, 1 DoH and 1 DoL. With like I said the option to go through a quest to unmaster it if you ever feel like you made the wrong choice.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

You too need to stop using your "limiting ranks" argument. It wasn't explained anywhere nor was it confirmed and I don't think that that's how they would implement a "mastering" of the class. It make far more sense with the current system that you would still be able to level your crafts to max level, but would only be able to master one which you give you access to special abilities.

I like your idea of crafting parties though and maybe that's why you would need to master a craft to be able to participate in special party crafts. Who knows.

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I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'm am not debating whether they will limit ranks or not. I am talking about "mastering" a craft. If DoH will be forced to choose 1 craft to master, then all classes should as well. That means all the DoW and DoM should be forced "master" 1 class.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Well in my opinion they could let you be every job but only master one. Which I would be OK with as well. The same as being able to level all DoH classes but master only one.

They can implement a quest to "unmaster" a DoW/DoM job or a DoH class if you feel unhappy with it afterwards.

Edit: Same goes for DoL, they could let everyone be every DoL but master only one which would allow them to find rare mats while gathering.

So every char could be every classes/jobs but could only master 1 Job, 1 DoH and 1 DoL. With like I said the option to go through a quest to unmaster it if you ever feel like you made the wrong choice.

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^^ THIS, I'm ok with. If you are going to force "mastery" then force it for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Darium

^^ THIS, I'm ok with. If you are going to force "mastery" then force it for everyone.

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They could make it look very attractive this mastering business so that you actually feel rewarded for mastering as opposed to penalized.

1 mastering per type of class (DoW/M, DoH, DoL) so 3 mastering per character. I think it could open up a lot of interesting mechanics, like your party crafting idea, which I find very interesting.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

They could make it look very attractive this mastering business so that you actually feel rewarded for mastering as opposed to penalized.

1 mastering per type of class (DoW/M, DoH, DoL) so 3 mastering per character. I think it could open up a lot of interesting mechanics, like your party crafting idea, which I find very interesting.

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I completely agree. My problem with this "speculation" has always been that it focused on DoH only. Mastery is a great concept but it should be "spread across the board", so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

They could make it look very attractive this mastering business so that you actually feel rewarded for mastering as opposed to penalized.

1 mastering per type of class (DoW/M, DoH, DoL) so 3 mastering per character. I think it could open up a lot of interesting mechanics, like your party crafting idea, which I find very interesting.

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This mastering theory is pure speculation.
Sorry if i think in something more realistic like the system ffxi had, when we speak about having 1 mastered class per char only.

never the less armory system =/= 1 mastering per char.

Also , dont even go there (DoW-DoM), i dont want to even THINK they would limit yourself to only 1 mastery option per char.Thats a discussion for another time.The moment they do that is the moment i terminate my account.

Having this limitation on DoH DoL is somethin (while im strongly agisnt it) i can live with.
On Dow or DoM? not in this life time.