This is a problem I've seen first hand.
I don't like the way they separated their playerbase like this. Why keep making best content for 10% of the players while the rest 90% can only do old things from the previous patches that got nerfed?
I'm a semi-casual player and I'm not happy with the way this game is going. Static 8 persons groups are anti-community. FC doesn't really mean anything but another chat system like Linkshells. the real guild system of this game is your 8 persons static group and everyone else doesn't matter at all including your friends, your fellow FC members, etc. since you can't play with them or help them anyway.
it almost impossible to learn SCoB with pugs. if I managed to beat the boss down to 50% or so with one group, the next day I join another group and people will get wiped in phase one so I have to start learning everything from the beginning again with this new group. it's never ending. I used to do T1-4 when it was locked out weekly and I did them just fine but now T6-T9 raised the difficulty standard and it's harder to do anything with pugs. so... 90% of the players can't do anything but accept to be left behind, waiting 6-7 months to eat the old meals and the worst thing is the dev themselves confirmed that this structure will be continued. ok, why should 90% of the players feel happy with it?
Where do you get these stats from 90% of the players can't do 2nd coil? If I look around mordohna I see many people with T9 gear. Even more so the majorly of people I see around have at least some high allagen gear its a lot higher then 10%. Most of the people I know on the 6 LS I have beat at least got up to T8 while most of them have beat T9.
They're not. I unintentionally notice what gear people have around me, and HA gear in general is fairly rare. Of the stuff you see, obviously stuff from T6 and to a degree T7 are more common, but still rather rare. I can walk through like a group of 40-50 people and see maybe 1-2 people with anything.
I'm not complaining about the game's difficulty though. just don't like the locking out concept. it's not good for the community and the game. it's killing the meaning of FC and friends. also killing an opportunity to play with different players.
Other games dont complain about the lock out system, why is this any different? People do end game cos at the least they like the challenge and play with like minded players, if you want to play with friends, there are other stuff to do that with, people have expectations from others, friends will vary in skill, this is more damaging then fixing it, imagine when, friends say to each other, you arent good enough so why should I continue running this with you, we are getting no where.
What you are asking for, these statements will occur more often, I prefer to play with people who im equivalent with for end game raiding, I can do other stuff with friends.
I gave up long ago on the EX primals and t6-t9. Primals as many of the good players that can teach it have left the game. I did good in the 1st turns but keeping a group together was hard. Then you know more than 8 ppl in the game and others compain if you don't take others in to learn it. I know many that didn't learn t1-t5 until 2.2 when the lock out was lifted. Coil should run like CT and ST. Run it as many times as you want, only one loot per week. 4 loot drops in CT/ST to choose from you can only get one. Let Coil be the same. Even after I get my loot I like to go back in and help friends get their loot. It is a fun time. Coil is locked out to anyone without a solid raid group and that is a killer. Plus can't help friends if they aren't in your static.
Because in other games one class is attached to one character. If you get locked out as a tank you can go as a healer.
FFXIV is unique in that a character has multiple classes. Locking the character locks every class you have. Would be like locking the account in the other MMOs.
FFXIV doesn't treat classes the same as other MMOs so the lockout system shouldn't be the same.
If you've got a dedicated static with committed people the structure suites you. It's designed in such a way that a
static is the only feasible option for longterm consistent raiding.
If you don't understand the various complaints do this:
Step out of your static and run Coil with 7 randoms for a few weeks and you might start to see why the raid structure needs a little work.
Eh, lets take WOW as an example, with any char you take, you get locked out once you get a kill on a boss, now, what you dont seem to get is, in WOW, each class has 3 specs, and lets take the class of a druid.
Druids had essentially 3 specs ( 4 now but it works a bit strange), 1 is caster DD, 1 is melee DD but can also spec to be a tank, and last is healer, does this sound already familiar to this game.
You go in with this class in any spec, and you get locked out, and each of the gear is unique to each spec.
And in wow, they dont complain, again, I ask, why is this playerbase complaining so much again ?
Now lets take warlocks, which is what I play, you have 3 specs all DD specs, and all 3 specs are entirely different, and in terms of secondary stats, utilise them in different strengths for each one, so getting a gear that has haste and crit will be best for 1 spec, but no the others as an example.
Paladins, have 3 specs, 1 is tank, very similar to PLDs in FF14, 1 is healer, its style is actually close to WHM here, and melee DD that uses 2 handed weapons like great swords and axes and maces, again, on 1 class and the same lockout system, each gear they need is entirely different.
I don't get this, because you could just make an alt character. Like you do in WoW. That's how players there get around it the 1/week lockout, you could do exactly the same here. I know multiple people that do just that here in ARR. They have 2-3 characters that they take with different raids teams/help out FC.
Unfortunately this has little to do with the tiers of content difficulty, group sizing, and overall accessibility of the content at hand in FFXIV - so to stay on topic; Why does the game focus on specifically 4/8/24-man group sizes? Why is 8-man the endgame raid size? Why is the system entirely built with static cliques in mind?
Those are the relevant points that you need to consider; not "why is there a lockout" or "why do people complain about the lockout here" because those are self-evident - the content is not varied enough and the group sizing is too exclusive and it's bred a community of separation and isolation. Why else would people complain? There is obviously a gap here that grows wider with each successive update and the developers as yet have failed to address it.
That is not acceptable.
There are three groups in FFXIV's raiding scene;
1.) Statics of dedicated players with enough free time or concurrent scheduling that learn and progress at the same rate - generally clearing content with mild to moderate difficulty gathering gear at a sustained and consistent rate.
2.) Non-statics; players without the free time or reliable schedule that have to play with random groups of players - often with varied inconsistent results. This group suffers because of varied levels of learning, progression, & gear often leading to frustrating and time consuming disconnects. Learning and progressing is difficult in this environment. Not necessarily unskilled players - they simply lack the advantage of having a consistent environment. Some overlap with the static raider grouping whenever there is a gap that needs to be filled.
3.) Non-raiders; people who either cannot or will not subject themselves to random groups (because of abuse or time constraint). Some of these players do not operate at the same level of skill and do not have the time or cannot find players with the time or patience to teach them or the time they need to learn for themselves.
Square has left a good chunk (and I won't make up a community-wide statistic here this is from my own observations) of it's player-base hanging.
It's not fun to spend hours and hours with different shuffles of random people of various levels of skill/progress/knowledge/gear trying to just clear a single boss fight.
I'll also note here that it is very likely not fun to spend a single hour a week on relevant endgame content. Being able to run it multiple times to help, teach, and practice would probably be welcomed by most players. The issue of drops and players progressing too quickly is a bit of a moot point in the grand scheme. Gear itself is not fun - playing the game and beating the fights is the fun.
The design & layout of the raids themselves needs to be looked at as well they're stunted trial bosses at this point. Even the lead up to Sastasha Seagrots is more engaging than a majority of the "non-boss" fight sections of Binding Coil and only marginally less interesting and exploration oriented than Second Coil. Which is rather pathetic.
Raiding should be more than what it is - and it should be more accessible either via tiered difficulty or repeatable runs.
I don't think Yoshida ever intend to address it, because he addressed it right from the start - Coil isn't something that was designed with many people clearing it. In fact he commented that he was surprised that there were more than his expected amount of people clearing it.
It was probably, working as intended.
You don't need a full 8 person static. In fact a lot of these "pug groups" that you'll see in PF usually consist of at least a few people that know each other. And it seems to work just fine. Personally I've been raiding since release and I've almost never had a full 8 person static.
The #1 problem with pug groups is that there are too many people who won't/can't get on voice chat. I've always hated voice chat... In older MMOs you didn't need it though because games were simpler and combat was much slower paced so typing was viable. In modern MMOs however it's much more vital/useful. With FFXIV I had to give in pretty early and start using voice chat. Going from having no one or half a group on voice chat to all 8 people on voice chat makes a HUGE difference.
If people are joining pug groups and not making friends with competent players, they are doing it wrong.
If people aren't making a 2nd character to get around the lock out so they can play with these friends they keep complaining about not being able to play with, they are doing it wrong.
It's not that complicated, people.
Coil Promotes statics which is hurting guilds and pugs. Statics are generally cancer to any community and one of the main things that rip guilds apart over time. They do nothing but fracture groups, it forms the A,B,C team mentality, You stop being X guild and start only worrying about your team. Statics are short lived usually 3-6 months if you have a good group. When you tie the life of members in your guild to those statics it creates horribly unstable situations if you are running anything besides a social guild.
I have lost so many members now because of issues in Coil it is absurd at this point and it has nothing to do with clearing everything is attendance issue related due to random ppl missing 1 day a week. Hell I cannot even effectively recruit because I am at 5 full coil groups... if I want more I have to invite 8 ppl at one time. 1 person should never be able to screw over 7 ppl, but this content it does exactly that.
As for pugs, I am a firm believer in the "it is working as intended for them" camp. A group of random people should have an extremely hard time clearing things, it is why guilds exist. If pugs cannot clear it effectively good.
If you read the entirety of his post though, you'll see that it's not so much just addressing the difficulty with "why can't everyone clear coil?" There are other points that the devs have remained pretty much quiet on. There simply are not enough options @ end game right now and the lock-out makes that painfully obvious.
The closest thing that the community got for an answer for end-game content/raids that more people from say, a FC or LS, can participate-in together rather than these 8-man clique raids was that the devs didn't want to step on small FC's toes who couldn't do larger-scale content because they don't have the man-power for it so they forgo the option altogether. Which is hilarious, really, because homeless FCs can't participate in gardening, chocobo dyeing and training, etc.
This is FF, you are not suppost to make alts to do content.
The fact you mention that is proof the devs are doing a horrible job designing endgame content. HAVING TO MAKE ALTS TO DO CONTENT, MEANS THE DEVS HAVE SCREWED UP ROYALLY. It is the definition of lack of content.
As a mmo player PAYING TO PLAY THIS GAME. I feel it is reasonable to demand at least 30hrs of Relevant endgame content per week on 1 character.
This game is painfully limited & their raiding structure is practically non-existent. If they really intended it this way they're really not very good at developing instanced content - four relevant boss fights and that's only if you can find a group of competent players or adhere to a static schedule?
Sounds like a co-op frustration simulator not an MMORPG to me~
I have covered them in entirety, actually. If you recall back all the Live Letters and interviews, you would actually find that it is just not only difficulty. All in all, the whole coil was designed with a difficulty and structure in mind that not many people will clear it, not many people will have the loots. This is why it is difficult, this is why they insist with the lock out because Yoship doesn't want everyone running with coil gears. If you see through this, you will get why they have not changed anything and tells you they could not find an alternative - simply because they wanted to make coil exclusive in some way. You can have access to the content but that doesn't mean that you can necessarily clear it and obtain the loots etc.
You have to recall again what was the concept behind this game. FFXIV isn't a hardcore MMORPG - if you want a more hardcore FF MMORPG, that would be XI. FF series have all the while been moderate series where it isn't too difficult for the masses to enjoy, with lots of side contents, like a theme park. It is a signature experience of FF games, and of course it is expected to continue as a concept of FF.
Yoship have again and again pointed out at the direction he intended for this game, which is fairly obvious that he is retaining this tradition. FFXIV is not a game that will be difficult, you will be given a few mild to challenging encounters but also given a lot of side contents for you to choose from, that may interest you. You may think gardening is crap, raising chocobo and dying them is shit, but there are a lot of my FC mates that are heavily into this and does their crafting, gardening and chocobo dying experiments daily and religiously. The FC I am in is pretty much a hardcore FC with teams achieving server firsts in both BCoB and SCoB and clearing savage coils, so you cannot say that gardening etc are something for the casuals. It is really up to the individual if these side contents interest you or not, and it was Yoship and his team's job to provide this variety.
This wasn't a game where it would dominate most of your gaming time or even your daily time. Instead, this was more like a game that you could log in everyday and spend 4-12hours and do everything from roulettes, myth grind for the whole Zodiak questline and obtain all 9 Novus, hunts, etc etc if you want, or alternatively, log in as and when you'd like, raid-log and enjoy the many other games out there also, if you'd want. It is a very moderate game, filling in with many side choices within every other patch, while adding a little flavor of challenge every now and then for those who seek some.
The problem with the player base is that they do not recognize the nature and concept behind this game and treat it as it will be the main and only game they play the whole year, as if this was a part-time job or something. Overall this is a fairly casual MMO, if you are looking forward to a more complex game that will make you put in lots of hours grinding end-game and difficult bosses, this is probably not the game for you.
"Are you happy with the current raiding structure in this game?"
What does Chocobo dye, Gardening, Mythology Tomes, or any of the other side content you've mention have to do with the fact that this game is extremely weak and shallow when it comes to raiding?
Can we please stick to the topic? You don't refute anything about the raiding system - and that's what this thread is discussing - if you're happy with it say so and move on. Don't try to glaze over other people's concerns and suggestions repeatedly without offering something at least mildly constructive.
Also what even;Quote:
This wasn't a game where it would dominate most of your gaming time or even your daily time. Instead, this was more like a game that you could log in everyday and spend 4-12hours
That's insane and there is no reason why the devs should cater to that amount of playtime when most players are casual. Whenever a new player dings 50 in this game the thing I hear the most is "I'm overwhelmed by the amount of things to do", thinking they need 30 hours of endgame content a week is just being completely out of touch and the one thing that sets this game apart from 1.0 is that devs are actually in touch with most players. The mmo as a full time job player is something they should actively dis-encourage, it was the worst stereotype of XI players they should bury like a shameful secret.
Your stand point is the insain one.
In order to enjoy the game at the end you have to play less? really?
Catering to the casuals is the worst thing they can do in terms of content amount. Yes give them content to do and stuff they can accomplish. But if you only cater to the weekend warriors you will screw over anyone with more then 10hrs a week of playtime.
The devs 100% should cater to those with that playtime. So everyone has content they can do. Not just the casuals.
Oh and by the way 1.0 suffered from a major lack of content too. Was the #1 problem outside the graphics engine.
I dunno if you need a reality check but for most normal people playing less than 30 hours a week in an online video game is not a shocking or hard decision to make. Even if you just spend all your time on the internet you could play other games, i have dozens in my steam backlog, or watch something.
Also catering to casuals pay bills. 1.0 was a good demonstration of why you don't ignore them.
Then you completely miss my point. I am saying that the current raid and structure of the game is fine, and my constructive comment is that people like you need to be aware of this, and move on to another game if you think it doesn't fit your bill. Because the concept of this game is unlikely to differ.
Quoting the below post for truth as well.
I think what Xatsh is saying is that we need more variety in our endgame raiding structure - this allows players more avenues if they have trouble with certain content and it would allow developers more room to implement a wider variety of gear and secondary stats as well as allowing them to explore encounter designs with multiple group sizes and even allow for content aimed at Free Companies. All of this would also translate into "more things" for the hardcore or dedicated player to enjoy. It would also allow casual players to link up with groups they otherwise are excluded from at the moment.
I'm sorry but you fail to see the majority of the players does not spend the amount of time you guys are going to propose and these chunk of people are the income for this game. Its so easy to see and such a simple reality check that I give up explaining it to you. I like how it is and I am certainly not keen in putting 30 hours a week into end game every week. I have other things I want to do and play as well.
Okay see here's where the point of Xatsh's comment seems to have flown over your head; You don't have to do 30hrs worth of content a week.
There should be at least 30hrs of content available within a week. It's an MMORPG - you're not supposed to be "finished" with it overnight... in a month... in six or even in a year.
The point is having lots of fun and engaging encounters and adventures available. Coil is not exactly fun if you're outside of a static - in fact it rapidly becomes a frustrating waste of your time. When you decide - nah not doing Coil your options are the side content you mention which itself is just a shallow grind. If you've got a static and are clearing within an hour of the reset then the problem of depth rears it's head once again.
Just because you could spend endless hours in a week on FFXIV doesn't mean you have to~
For example; I could spend all day every day doing hunts - but I'm not going to.
Give us more raids - more diversity. Make it accessible. Get these Free Companies out doing things together and make it inclusive.