SE - 2.2 is Going to Cost You Greatly

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

So...speed is the excuse for poor design?

Also, what does XI have to do with anything? This isn't XI... you could compare to any game...and say it's not as "bad" as X... that is not a very good way to evaluate something... pick something that is worse and say "It could have been worse".

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1. Xi has a lot to do with xiv, considering a great deal of the hardcore FF fans in xiv had extensive sub histories with xi.

2. What you call poor design is simply SE trying to cater to both hardcore and casual players many of those also veterans of xi.

3. Players who devour content such as the pre 2.2 stuff in 2 weeks and then squeak about nothing to do here are as much or more to blame than any MMO grind mechanic, some people should pursue other interests outside gaming perhaps, like a girlfriend, boyfriend, maybe even a paycheck, they don't give away groceries where I live.

4. There will be "no" mass sub crash in xiv, those diehard FF fans will be here, and they will buy a 3rd retainer in many cases as well as fantasia too.

5. Forum topics such as these are the reason the 99% who do not post in general forums avoid doing so, and the exact reason they should get more involved.

6. I am one of the hardest video game critics you will ever find, if I am a "knight" of any color, it is black not white, some 30 years+ played in everything from pinball to xiv, people can wish xiv dead all they want, not going to happen.

7. People can say xiv is bad, it isn't that bad.

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I would rather have it be a time sink for everyone, like "Do every FATE in these 12 zones three times each" rather than a time sink only for the unlucky.

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You might, but then you have people that hate that with a passion.

Also, why would an atma suddenly drop on x amount of FATE done? I'm asking that in an immersion kind of way.

What a bunch of casuals complaining their Atma's aren't being handed to them.

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Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay

What a bunch of casuals complaining their Atma's aren't being handed to them.

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It has nothing to do about being handed anything.

13 hours of farming later I still have 0 atma. I've done my time. I've farmed my atma but I've received absolutely nothing for it. The worst part was being in black brush where every single fate gives me crap seals. Do not sit there talking about casuals because this punishes people who aren't casuals as well. A bad system is a bad system. My roommate killed 2 fates and has 2 atma's. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system at all.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It has nothing to do about being handed anything.

13 hours of farming later I still have 0 atma. I've done my time. I've farmed my atma but I've received absolutely nothing for it. The worst part was being in black brush where every single fate gives me crap seals. Do not sit there talking about casuals because this punishes people who aren't casuals as well. A bad system is a bad system. My roommate killed 2 fates and has 2 atma's. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system at all.

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There is, it is called RNG. RNG is fair.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It has nothing to do about being handed anything.

13 hours of farming later I still have 0 atma. I've done my time. I've farmed my atma but I've received absolutely nothing for it. The worst part was being in black brush where every single fate gives me crap seals. Do not sit there talking about casuals because this punishes people who aren't casuals as well. A bad system is a bad system. My roommate killed 2 fates and has 2 atma's. There is absolutely nothing fair about this system at all.

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Sounds like it is Working as Intended and you're just complaining that Atma stones aren't raining from the skies. You not getting any stones after 11 hours and your friend getting two stones in quick succession are very fair as that is how random systems generally work on the extremes.

RNG is fair because it makes me have a special thing first before everyone else can!

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Originally Posted by ExponentialDecay

What a bunch of casuals complaining their Atma's aren't being handed to them.

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Pretty much. Sorry you guys can't be gratified instantly because you only have an hour or two to log in per day. I played 11 for 7 years and I've played 14 since 1.0. I'm extremely happy they gave us something to log in and grind towards. If you don't like you don't need to worry about getting the weapon. You don't have to do the content. I've paid my four extra bucks a month for my retainers and SE will continue to collect from me every month because the 13.99 I now pay is money well spent on something I invest a ton of time into. As long as they keep putting out quality content like this I'm all for it.

For those of you who don't like this update I feel pretty bad for you, I was hoping we'd get something like this and now I'm excited to log in again.

Many people complaining about the Atma RNG would have not survived the first part of the relict quest 1.0 where you grinded hamlet defense for weeks only to unlock the relict quest, praying that the next hamlet defense give you the one last seal you are still missing.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Many people complaining about the Atma RNG would have not survived the first part of the relict quest 1.0 where you grinded hamlet defense for weeks only to unlock the relict quest, praying that the next hamlet defense give you the one last seal you are still missing.

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...and 1.0 was a humiliating failure that hardly anyone played. So that is not exactly something to brag about.

In fact, it should have been a cautionary tale.

My & most others arguments tend to lean toward hating the fact it's FATE grind (esp. of mixed levels)... not that it's a grind itself.

Primarily due to the fact SE should have known the mass majority of the player base hated the idea of being forced into FATE grinds.

Many people hate FATE's altogether.

I still think Atma grind should've been handled via Timeworn Maps.

I got my atma quite leisurely in a single day in which I also capped tomes, did some coil, cleared the 3 new instances, and did the new beastman dailies. You guys need to RNG harder.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

My & most others arguments tend to lean toward hating the fact it's FATE grind (esp. of mixed levels)... not that it's a grind itself.

Primarily due to the fact SE should have known the mass majority of the player base hated the idea of being forced into FATE grinds.

Many people hate FATE's altogether.

I still think Atma grind should've been handled via Timeworn Maps.

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I can see where you are coming from. I was hoping it'd be new bosses in these fates that you'd have to take down for the atma myself.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

I can see where you are coming from. I was hoping it'd be new bosses in these fates that you'd have to take down for the atma myself.

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That would've been exciting & refreshingly new. The Lightning FATE's were rad because they incorporated story elements & even new monsters at times.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

That would've been exciting & refreshingly new. The Lightning FATE's were rad because they incorporated story elements & even new monsters at times.

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and rng. lol

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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So you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is a Looney. Glad you're also arrogantly naïve to the point of discrediting any opinions you had. Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by Awrini

So you're right and anyone who disagrees with you is a Looney. Glad you're also arrogantly naïve to the point of discrediting any opinions you had. Have a nice day.

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That Note is calling out an obviously fallacious argument that does nothing to contribute to the wealth of valid arguments being made... thanks for the flame/toxicity though.

No sir. The original post had the basis of a discussable topic. However when your added that overly arrogant notation you also automatically lost all credibility.

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Originally Posted by IStolzI

This patch was awesome. The relic questions is awesome. There's so many different ways to gear and there is actually stuff that needs to be worked for, but alternatives that are only slightly weaker but far faster. Game is getting good

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What? As I see it SE decreased the ways to gear. There is only one way to gear now and that is Coil 2. Before you could gear with myth, but not anymore. Coil is only way to gear.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

...and 1.0 was a humiliating failure that hardly anyone played. So that is not exactly something to brag about.

In fact, it should have been a cautionary tale.

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People came back after payment system started and more lv50 endcontent came out. There were still enough people to fill up 7 1/2 serves.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

What? As I see it SE decreased the ways to gear. There is only one way to gear now and that is Coil 2. Before you could gear with myth, but not anymore. Coil is only way to gear.

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Only content you would need coil gear is coil 9 and the next coil in 2.4. In short, coil gear is only interesant for people doing coil. For everything else tome gear is also good.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Coil is (presently the) only way to gear (items Beyond i110).

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Fixed, and still don't see your point.

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Originally Posted by Awrini

No sir. The original post had the basis of a discussable topic. However when your added that overly arrogant notation you also automatically lost all credibility.

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How about try tackling my reply rather than replying in personal arrogance. You can spout I'm arrogant all you want, but rather than have a fine discussion you spew flaming comments my way.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Fixed, and still don't see your point.

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Point is that before 2.2 you could get high iLvl gear by doing other stuff than coil. That is the point I make. There was 2 ways to get good gear, now there is one single way. I like alot of stuff they put into 2.2, but I do not praise where praise is not due.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Point is that before 2.2 you could get high iLvl gear by doing other stuff than coil. That is the point I make. There was 2 ways to get good gear, now there is one single way. I like alot of stuff they put into 2.2, but I do not praise where praise is not due.

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And you conveniently omit the i115 novus in this example.

Fret not, its on its way~

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Point is that before 2.2 you could get high iLvl gear by doing other stuff than coil. That is the point I make. There was 2 ways to get good gear, now there is one single way. I like alot of stuff they put into 2.2, but I do not praise where praise is not due.

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. But you can get high ilvl gear outside of coil. Just not the highest. So no still don't see your point.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

And you conveniently omit the i115 novus in this example.

Fret not, its on its way~

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Do not circumvent my point. The point I make is solely that there are fewer ways to gear up now than before. FYI I think it is a step in the right direction with the current Relic Quest. Only part that bothers me is ATMA farm, but that is because it combine the horribly designed system called FATE with RNG hell with no light in sight.

I would like to just say;

If you are not having fun, then perhaps this is not the game for you. What the developers decide to do with the game effects everyone, not just the "hundreds" of people who don't like it.

I like this game, the only flaw is indeed content, and I don't mean hard core end game must be the best content. I mean things that were in 1.0 and that was taken out.

The NM guild leves, the NMs in general. Fates are quaint but server no purpose. No special drops (except for the occasional minion)

DF is a nightmare sometimes and yes, once I am capped on soldiery, I rarely do them.

Just complete my Animus, I am very proud of myself. But I don't see myself doing it for every weapon. Not because it's hard, but because it is too tedious. Beating turn 7 will get be a better weapon, than spending months on Animus.

TL;DR, more content to fill out Level 1-49 gameplay, not endgame stuff.

The issue is just the high focus on Raiding and it's difficulty spikes. Which blocks progression because it is content that wont be accessible to everyone.

There's a simple solution that will irk elitist but if there were mechanics to make "raid" slightly more "lenient" but at a "cost" it would allow for a more tolerable level of progression.

The current level of progression places a major road block at end game Raiding with its 0 tolerance mechanics which is a major offender alongside raid lockouts. Sure the skilled hardcore will complete these trials but everyone else with various restrictions and limitations wont be seeing that content any time soon because of that 0 tolerance mechanic.

The raid lockouts and difficulty cause people to split up and go their separate ways because of the stress and rage.

The end game wall has to many negatives. While I may understand why it is like this and have come to personally accept it and find ways to cope with it because of how troublesome it is. I also understand that it is neglected to a lot of players that want to experience it and the options provided to them are very minimal. These players don't want to give up on raiding content or hard content and not everyone will be submissive and just give up on end game like I did after tolerating the stressful and demanding nature of raiding for nearly 8 years.

CT did raiding right. Moderate difficulty, no raid lockouts, just gear lockouts.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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Conversely, just because you (generic you, not specific) don't like it doesn't mean the whole of the player base doesn't. I'd wager that those complaining and saying they hate the game are a very vocal minority and not at all indicative of the majority's feelings.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

CT did raiding right. Moderate difficulty, no raid lockouts, just gear lockouts.

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CT has a difficulty level of 0.5 out of 10... you have to try hard to fail in that. It is about as hard as beating an odin when it spawns in fate. Requires about the same skill level as well.

Gear lockouts is horrible as well. Time lockouts are best. But they need more then 1 content. If there was 3-4 things dropping Coil level gear each with a lockout. I am sure no one would care anymore because it is plently to do.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

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If the actual difficulty of adds were increased in CT to the point where not damaging and accordingly to the point where they became actual 0 tolerance mechanics. Guess what you'll end up with exactly with the same kinda of diffuclty you have now in Binding Coil of Bahamut. Which in turn would have made the amount of people clearing CT be nearly as identical to that of BCoB.

You may think the difficulty is 0.5 but it isn't. There's enough mechanics per fight where if damage, defense, HP, positioning, and the allotted time to deal with all that was brought up a notch you wouldn't be seeing as many people being able to clear it. It's only easy because it's lenient 1-5 person messing up isn't a big deal just a hassle. Titan HM, Extreme, and Turn 5 are an issue because of this. Though you can go ahead and neglect them.

As for the lockouts.

Time lockout means you're restricted to doing a turn per week and restricted to the pieces it drops for that week per week.
Gear lockout means you can run each turn as much as you want and you're restricted to a piece per turn for that week per week.

All in all that means more attempts to doing coil and getting more people, especially from the FC, to do coil with than just the same 7 other people.

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NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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That argumet works the other way around as well you know.. lol

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Originally Posted by Gesser

That Note is calling out an obviously fallacious argument that does nothing to contribute to the wealth of valid arguments being made... thanks for the flame/toxicity though.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you like it & your friends do, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase does... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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"Note: Just because you do not like it & your friends do not, does not mean the whole of the playerbase does not.... an argument that people do not enjoy it & it will affect the # of subscribers is naive at best. Sorry, that is no argument."

Do people realize that those kind of statements always work the other way around as well? :rolleyes:

Calling out an obvious fallacious argument with another fallacious argument totally does make sense, so what's your point again?

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Originally Posted by Gesser

How about try tackling my reply rather than replying in personal arrogance. You can spout I'm arrogant all you want, but rather than have a fine discussion you spew flaming comments my way.

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"Fine Discussion" would imply that you are open to other opinions and arguments. With that Note i don't believe that you actually want to have a discussion, since you called everyone not agreeing with you "naive", before even hearing their opinion about it. It is, like the Awrini said, arrogant and has a good taste of "I am right, cause i say so".

They just need to fix the Atma drop rate and 2.2 is gold.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

NOTE: just because you and 100 or so vocal forum posters doesn't like it, doesn't mean the whole of the playerbase doesn't... an argument that people enjoy it & it won't affect the # of subscribers is naïve at best. Sorry, that is no argument. Glad you're sticking around though! I personally enjoy 2.2 minus a few gripes here or there.

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looks like it is true either way?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Once they get rid of the FATE system and just replace it with a NM system, this game will be sooo much better. Perhaps they are trying to figure out how to get rid of it while keeping the balance of the game.

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So, replace live dynamic events with just roaming NM's? Okay. You do know it isn't the FATE system itself that is the issue, right? It is how the developers are using it in quests.

Personally 2.2 has been okay update for me, i don`t mind the new zodiac quests.

The best for me personally content wise from 2.2 has been the lost city of Amdapor, they did a really good job there. I have very little motivation or interest in taking part in second coil at this time, i don't have the time anymore or patience to deal with the drama.

However i`m finding myself getting very bored, probably going to take a break and play something else for abit and come back, hoping they have a casino type place where you can bet/watch on PvP, Chocobo racing and play some card games like tetra Master, just some mini games with casual/vanity prizes.

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

Conversely, just because you (generic you, not specific) don't like it doesn't mean the whole of the player base doesn't. I'd wager that those complaining and saying they hate the game are a very vocal minority and not at all indicative of the majority's feelings.

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I agree with both of those statements. In response to the former, I mean for that to be an implicit part of my own. The inverse is true, that is correct.


You all can stop trying to make fun of me in making comments like "do people realize that those kind of statements always work the other way around as well? lol"...

Yes, I know, the other side is also true. That is strongly implicit, and easily gleaned from the statement.

Anyone can turn the argument on its head, the reciprocal went without saying.

Any one of you can continually reverse an argument, how about contribute to the intent of the thread rather than necro from pieces of it you choose to belittle.

Ok fine, you talk about a dynamic change, then you mention the nerfs + echo. Um, were you not paying attention 6+ months ago when the said this was their plan? So they added another grinding element to the game, yes it's FATEs that got old a long time ago (opinion) and yes it's pure RNG. But maybe it's just because I expect these types of things in a Final Fantasy MMO. Now you say people are "unsubbing in the hundreds", where do you get this information? And how do you know it differentiates from the normal ebb and flow of MMO subscriptions.

You posted this back not even a week after the patch hit. Over a month ago, to me (again opinion) looks like the game is going strong.

Now to continue this on, because thats obviously a dead necroed topic, what do you want them to do to fix the game? add NMs, add more open world content, it's game design these things take time. Coding is hell. (opinion)

Reading this entire thread gave me nothing more than a migraine. "Looks at OP"