Weekly Caps: Worse than Fatigue

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Originally Posted by Jayded

Nice generalization, there. Most people's experiences tend to be the opposite, with healers and tanks being the most pompous and arrogant douchers due to the nature of the roles.

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With the way you're talking, I doubt it :).

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Originally Posted by Uveck

Mythos cap is a way to force people to continue paying month to month. If I unsub and wait until more content is released with 2.1 or 2.2 to resub and there is still a 300 mythos cap, then I missed out on a great deal of mythos. If there is no cap, I can unsub and resub freely and won't have a limit to how fast I can catch up.

Basically the only reason I don't unsub is because I don't want to be out 300 mythos/week until I resub when they add more content because IMO the endgame is incomplete.

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People like you are what make this community so bad. People like you "forced" players, and your toxic attitude.

It's so obvious people. SE is a business, so they do things that profit them. Having a cap on myth keeps people coming back every week for more. Which in turn, gets them paid.

I honestly have no problem with this. I honestly think three weeks of invested time to get one of the best weapons, or one of the best pieces of armor for your job is a cake walk.. This generation of gamers just want SOOO much for so little time invested. Dare I remind players of how long it took to get relic weapons upgraded in XI?

But at the same time, any business that's coming out of bankruptcy so to speak treads softly and makes adjustments to continue to grow and regain traction over the long run.

SE would rather make continuous money than frontload it. That won't happen if everyone leaves after a few months due to boredom and artificial caps. Then they just lost all their veteran players and they go under again. Have to keep a good balance between making things hard and making them time sinks. Right now its heavily loaded as a time sink at 50 until you get to coil which sounds like actual fun. Running CM and AK day and night on the other hand do not.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

Source? Or are you just talking out of your rear?

PS, FFXIV is not a new game. It was released 3 years ago.

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Uhhh no, their words are, NEW GAME... whether you like or not, was completely rebuilt.
It's a new game, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Abyssion

Uhhh no, their words are, NEW GAME... whether you like or not, was completely rebuilt.
It's a new game, plain and simple.

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How about that source, big guy?

PS, rebuilt does not = new. Hell, people even kept their characters and gear.

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Originally Posted by Stryker

But at the same time, any business that's coming out of bankruptcy so to speak treads softly and makes adjustments to continue to grow and regain traction over the long run.

SE would rather make continuous money than frontload it. That won't happen if everyone leaves after a few months due to boredom and artificial caps. Then they just lost all their veteran players and they go under again. Have to keep a good balance between making things hard and making them time sinks. Right now its heavily loaded as a time sink at 50 until you get to coil which sounds like actual fun. Running CM and AK day and night on the other hand do not.

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I honestly think people are more inclined to leave if they've accomplished everything the game has to offer. So SE is smart for what they've done. They've limited ONE aspect of the game to keep people interested until new content is added.

The amount of players that will leave the game because of one system being capped is no where near the amount of players that would leave the game once they've exhausted everything there is to offer.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I think the cap should stay..but they simply need more content. My FC and I are sadly bored because we have done nearly everything...

For me it is not a matter of rushing, I don't rush anything..I go at my own pace and can accomplish quite a lot in a little of time on this game. I have a really solid group and we can do team work, etc.

Yoshida said to us that we will no longer be able to EXP in PT and that leveling is no longer meant to be a big aspect of the game..and instead end game would be everything. Well I am sorry there is not that much atm. Not saying there has to be at this very second, most MMO that come out don't have that much content to start with..but why make CC, AV, DD not end game? That alone would give us a few more instances to do and rotate around instead of AK AK AK AK BC BC etc....

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I can agree with you on the aspect of there isn't enough variety in content. I don't think necessarily that content is the problem as much as why there isn't multiple ways of gaining tomes that are efficient. I know in 2.1, they are adding more dungeons that will give tomes, but this is something that should of been from the start, along with the random dungeon finder feature being added in.

Wanderer's Palace could of easily been an alternate ilvl60 dungeon and ilvl55 gear could of been obtained through CM and Praetorium. They could of added the random dungeon feature that offers more tokens than a normal dungeon would. Would this be the perfect solution? Probably not. I wouldn't be surprised if the community found an exploit in the dungeon, abuse it, and ignore the random dungeon feature.

In all fairness though, to put my foot in my mouth, this is a brand new game and a lot of stuff they wanted to give (like Crystal Tower) simply wasn't ready. I do commend them on how much they were able to give us at the start. I'm sure how 2.1 will be presented is probably more of their idea of how they wanted to launch the game, they simply just couldn't get it all out in time.

So, actually, think my main complaint is how dungeon placement was done at the start, haha. I think we should just deal with what we have till next month. You still have Turn 5 in Binding Coils to overcome and as I see, no one has legitimately beaten it yet (Well its down this week, haha). So no point in us being Mr./Ms. Hindsight at this point and just offer feedback for what we can in the future.

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Originally Posted by MushroomSoup

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That's a fair counter argument. I guess ultimately we'll see as to what happens in the coming months.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

OR! you know, you can do the other 90% of the game, that some people seemed to jump over and forget about, instead of just doing the same thing over and over on 1 class, just sayin'

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All that content!

Like quests? I did those to get Paladin 50. All my quests are done, all of them.

Like Fates? Fates aren't content, they're a poor substitute for content.

All the dungeons? I did them on Paladin because I love tanking, did them on whm too but much less because healer queue is slower and can't queue while in a fate party.

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Originally Posted by Abyssion

People like you are what make this community so bad. People like you "forced" players, and your toxic attitude.

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It's not a toxic attitude. The game has a cap on mythos. If you don't sub for a month you lose out on those mythos and if the cap remains you can never get those mythos back. That is a way to force people to continue to pay.

The cap is there to ensure that casuals don't get better gear then those doing endgame not gonna get changed as it would be unfair. What use is it if you run AK 50 times a week get best gear in the game and then need to do endgame where most gear is such a minor improvement it isn't worth doing.

Darklight for casuals and AF +1 gear is there to slowly evolve darkight gear into the +1 gear, but don't give an advantage to casual players over endgame raiders.
It's not like it is different in any other game.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

It's not a toxic attitude. The game has a cap on mythos. If you don't sub for a month you lose out on those mythos and if the cap remains you can never get those mythos back. That is a way to force people to continue to pay.

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When you really go neutral about it though, is that even a problem? It's the way this game is. It's not gonna change in the near future. They designed it to be this way. The consumer decides if they want to stay or not. It's obviously not that big of a concern for pretty much everyone (they haven't quit solely for that reason).

By the time new content is released, people will pretty much move on from these specific complaints. It's always been this way with consumers, and history always repeats itself. The sooner people realize this, the much more enjoyable the game (or the time you spend with it) can become. Not so much the community gets better sadly, in fact you'll probably hate the community more as a result LOL.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

In fact, the caps destroy the entire concept of the armoury system by severely crippling the ability to gear alternate jobs.

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We understand that you're trying to increase the longevity of our subscriptions SE, and that's all well and good as you are a business, but these caps are detrimental to player retention.

You need to look at it from the developer's perspective. Imagine if you already have all the best gear, and you've cleared out everything there is to do in this game. That would be your conclusion, you'd go away until the next patch.

They don't want you to go away, they want you to come back, even if it means once a week.

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Originally Posted by RyujinUzikin

You need to look at it from the developer's perspective. Imagine if you already have all the best gear, and you've cleared out everything there is to do in this game. That would be your conclusion, you'd go away until the next patch.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3035335/

I looked at your Lodestone (Sorry for being so nosy!), and found it interesting to note that you only have one Job at cap. Before you "vendetta-search" my profile, I have BLM, SMN, SCH, WHM, and DRG at level cap. You obviously know about cross-class skills, since you have most at 15...but do you really understand what the Armory System means? You honestly think it's alright for a five month grind just to outfit one Job?

When you say the "developer's perspective", doesn't it seem a bit double-standard to create a system that promotes leveling every class (Armory, Cross-skills), and then create an end-game that forces you to focus on only one?

Promotes having many classes on one character to compliment each other, also promotes having an actual main so people aren't all trying to go for every classes gear. Sounds legit to me.

This is just a wall they put up to slow a player's progress to a snail pace since they know for a fact that there is little to no end game atm. Mythos cap = stalling for time.

The major selling point here is the 'freedom' to play other jobs yet the mythos caps means a player will never gear more than one or two at most. That makes no sense.

ie. right now it takes roughly 38 weeks to relic +1 and buy all mythos gear for a SINGLE job.

Yay?

Possible solution:

Each class you use has it's own 300 cap for myth. You only have access to that myth when you're on that class. This way all your characters level equally in gear, yet you can't stack all the tombs for one classes gear. In addition, you can only use the myth from that class on gear it can primarily use.

Or they can just up the myth cap for every level 50 you have, but that's not really fair. I like my first suggestion much more.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...56#post1410856

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The number of areas where you can acquire Allagan Tomestones of Philosophy and Mythology will be increased as well as the amount you can acquire.

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I've got my fingers crossed, but I really like the idea of some kind of per-class tome cap that was floated above, too.

In before posts that complain because its too easy to get AF2.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

In before posts that complain because its too easy to get AF2.

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It IS too easy to get AF2. No one is arguing that. It just takes forever.

Let the XI mentality go, really >.>

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

It IS too easy to get AF2. No one is arguing that. It just takes forever.

Let the XI mentality go, really >.>

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What FFXI mentality, I like the game as it is I am not trying to make any harder or easier like all the complainers do all the time and spawn threads like this one beacause they are unable to play by the game's rules.
I know that people WILL find something to complain.
Developers know exactly what they are doing, we dont need to tell them how to do it.
They put in the caps for a reason and people complain that they want to get infinite mythology while they also complain that mythology farm is the only thing they are doing.

If youre gonna complain for the sake of complaining stop playing the damn game... seriously.

What I really hope is that this;

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The difficulty for level 50 dungeons will be adjusted.

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Means stuff will be harder... If Wanderer's Palace/Amdapor Keep (I assume they're adding Mythology to Wanderer's Palace given the other point) are going to be easier... Well... Thanks for raising the cap so I have to do more and simultaneously nerfing the content so I can clear it in half the time, I guess....

They put myth tomes (ilvl 90) in an ilvl 60 dungeon you can do in AF1+precursor, and you're complaining that you can only get so many a week? I'm surprised they drop outside of Titan/BC.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

I'm surprised they drop outside of Titan/BC.

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So am I to be honest. I'd much rather have seen something like "Clear Wanderer's Palace + Amdapor Keep and you can challenge X for Mythology", X being a significant challenge of course. I don't so much mind the cap itself, my issue is with how insanely easy it is to reach it... I actually kind of like the cap, removing/raising it just means you clear that content faster, if they'd just made it harder to obtain Mythology I'd have been fine with it; instead it only takes up <5 hours a week...

Just another artifact of the game being in 1.9 right now I guess... Endgame wasn't ready for release, Crystal Tower and iLv80 missing is evidence enough of that, and they could hardly remove Mythology from the game seeing how little there is at endgame already... Maybe if they stuck to their "We wont release it until it is read" promise, things would have been different...

I dont mind the Myth cap...so long as their were other ways to GET the myth (aside from the afterthought for primals) I mean, plenty of non-used dungeons could offer something to this effect.

You know what, SE had that cap implemented so all you hardcore no-lifers wouldn't kill yourselves in the process from playing too much. I won't ask you to get a life but at least get some sleep.

Really don't care what they do in regards to this.. But Sotek do you honestly think strat is better than DL??

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Really don't care what they do in regards to this.. But Sotek do you honestly think strat is better than DL??

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I never said Strategos was better... Reading comprehension/etc.; I said the upgrade was negligible, nothing more. Dorklight is better, but it is far from needed. If it was needed I'd have never beat Titan, much less solo healed it so much. If it was needed my tank would have died in Coil. It is a negligible upgrade which I'm only bothering with out of boredom, not because the game requires that upgrade. Even if iLv requirements mean it is a needed upgrade, that is still a pathetic way to make it anything other than negligible... I'd gladly have the gear be a requirement if it actually was one... Having minor upgrades to gear like this just means certain gear can be completely skipped; case and point, everyone who currently does Coil has skipped Crystal Tower (iLv80) gear.

Off topic slightly, but whichever MMO introduced the notion of tokens (I know WoW added it eventually, but not sure if they were first) did NOT do the genre any favors.

Somebody decided that grinding for tokens is better than grinding bosses for drops. I understand the why, but I strongly disagree with it.

On topic, I'd like to see the tokens removed, loot tables and number of drops per kill increased, and the only limit would be on the number of drops (not kills) you can get from the high-tier bosses each week. e.g. You could do Coil Turn 1 as many times as you want, but you only get to roll on x amount of items per week.

Under table jabs aren't needed. I merely asked a question to gauge why you felt it was negligible. I for one didn't say anything about needing it as I to have for gone suggestions by said 'pros' about gear.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

I merely asked a question to gauge why you felt it was negligible.

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Your exact words were "do you honestly think strat is better than DL". If you meant to ask why I feel the upgrade is negligible, then fair enough, but that isn't how your question reads at all.

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Originally Posted by FAVisceglia

Off topic slightly, but whichever MMO introduced the notion of tokens (I know WoW added it eventually, but not sure if they were first) did NOT do the genre any favors.

Somebody decided that grinding for tokens is better than grinding bosses for drops. I understand the why, but I strongly disagree with it.

On topic, I'd like to see the tokens removed, loot tables and number of drops per kill increased, and the only limit would be on the number of drops (not kills) you can get from the high-tier bosses each week. e.g. You could do Coil Turn 1 as many times as you want, but you only get to roll on x amount of items per week.

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Agreed. I hate point/token systems. I'd rather grind a boss for a chance at an actual piece of loot than endlessly grind a dungeon for 40 points and no chance at anything else. It just feels like work. You won't always get what you want with random drops, but that's part of what keeps you around. And that's the truth.

My AF2 doesn't feel like an accomplishment. It feels like I ran a dungeon like a zombie for a few weeks and got welfare blues.

There is this strange thing called "Outside" .
You will find that there is People "Outside" .
Activities such as finding a "Relationship" with another Human being ......

Ride a Bike , Lift Weights , Go out on Dates , Work , Drive a Car , Go to the Beach , Fish in Real Life O.O , Build Something .........................be productive ....................................
I get my Myth Cap done on Monday , spam AK to death , then I have the rest of the week to level another job or harass my wife and kids .............not to mention that pesky thing called Work..............

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Originally Posted by Overon

There is this strange thing called "Outside" .
You will find that there is People "Outside" .
Activities such as finding a "Relationship" with another Human being ......

Ride a Bike , Lift Weights , Go out on Dates , Work , Drive a Car , Go to the Beach , Fish in Real Life O.O , Build Something .........................be productive ....................................
I get my Myth Cap done on Monday , spam AK to death , then I have the rest of the week to level another job or harass my wife and kids .............not to mention that pesky thing called Work..............

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Oh, is that what the subscription fee is for? Here I thought I was paying for game content, when in actuality I'm paying so I can go out and ride a bike. Who knew!

And obviously anyone who is bored of endgame doesn't go outside/have friends/etc when endgame can literally only take up 30 minutes of your day, depending on how you handle Coil... That overwhelming amount of endgame content is really detrimental to peoples social lives...

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Originally Posted by FAVisceglia

Somebody decided that grinding for tokens is better than grinding bosses for drops

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Originally Posted by Sidious

I'd rather grind a boss for a chance at an actual piece of loot

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So you'd be alright with Ifrit/Garuda/Titan 20-30 times before seeing your item drop? Possibly more if you're unlucky. If you're an outlier, it finally drops on your fiftieth attempt, only to lose the roll to the player who shares your class but spent the entire fight dead on the floor. I was lucky and got my BLM Ifrit weapon on my forth attempt, but there are many, many others who are at 30+ Primal kills and have yet to even see their goal, let alone win the roll.

Tons of AK runs, I have seen the Demogogue hat once. I have only seen the tank ring once. I've helped kill HM Garuda nearly twenty times. I have seen several SCH books, a handful of SMN books, two WHM staves and one PLD sword. And you're alright with this system?

http://i.imgur.com/rIm9cj1.jpg

And you must have never played XI

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

This person must have never played EQ... casuals... HA.

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And you must have never played XI

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Originally Posted by Overon

There is this strange thing called "Outside" .
You will find that there is People "Outside" .
Activities such as finding a "Relationship" with another Human being ......

Ride a Bike , Lift Weights , Go out on Dates , Work , Drive a Car , Go to the Beach , Fish in Real Life O.O , Build Something .........................be productive ....................................
I get my Myth Cap done on Monday , spam AK to death , then I have the rest of the week to level another job or harass my wife and kids .............not to mention that pesky thing called Work..............

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Outside sounds scary.