Myth tomb cap should be per job

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Originally Posted by Raxion

It bugs me when people say "tomb" instead of "tome".

I wonder how many illiterate people sit around calling them "tombstones" while they play...

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This ^ is one of the most interesting posts in this entire thread. In TS people regularly say tombs, and I'm like...../sigh.

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If you believe otherwise, then you are deluded. I don't know what else to tell you.

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That can go both ways. XD

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Originally Posted by Starlord

That can go both ways. XD

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No, it can't. You might think this is all a matter of opinion, but it's not-- by virtue of definition.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

No, it can't. You might think this is all a matter of opinion, but it's not-- by virtue of definition.

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How YOU define a NEW game and How I define a NEW game are indeed matter of opinions.

I know what the definition of "Scratch" is. With the game in question, This game was remade completely, somethings are the same, but A LOT of the game is completely different. The game is not an expansion, Hell it's not even a patch ( the game is a new client).

Remade in the way they went about remake it, makes it new. If I can't even tell it's FFXIV anymore, then it's new just with the same name.

And IF the game is a continuation of 1.0. The why in the world some parts of 1.0 are left out till 2.1? If something is "Continued" There shouldn't be anything deleted.

I am in no way a casual player, raptr says I've spent almost 600 hours in FFXIV so far, and I'd say 90% of that time was actually in game time, and if they removed the cap then I'd feel obligated to run myth runs constantly just so I'd be able to stay up with everyone else. There is no cap on philo and I really burned myself out running CM non-stop to get full DL on my tank.

I also feel like I did some serious damage to my psyche wiping on titan so many times just so that I can get a relic and keep up with all the other players that already had relic. Sure, I didn't have to do all of this, sure I could have just played casually leveling up new classes and all that jazz, but let's face it, people want...no expect you to be in the best gear you can possible be in or you suck at life.

So what's going to happened if they remove the myth cap? -----> /sh LFM AK full myth/relic or GTFO

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I know what the definition of "Scratch" is.

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You say that, and then you go on to demonstrate the contrary.

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This game was remade completely, somethings are the same

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Mythology Tomes


8 Jobs

1 with 13 Gear Slots
7 with 12 Gear Slots

Weekly cap 300/300

Cheapest Myth purchase: Thiv Mist @ 300 Tomes (3 Req Relic +1, Holy Shield +1 300/Curtana +1 600)

2 Weeks per Feet/Hands/Head/Accessories - 3 weeks per Body/Legs/Weapon

For Myth Bodies/Legs: [8*(3*3)]*2 = 72 weeks
For Relic +1 Weapons: 8*(3*3) = 72 weeks
For Myth Feet/Hands/Head/Accessories: 8(2*7) = 112 weeks

Totaling: 256 Weeks or 4.9 years at the current rate to Gear in full Myth (on all Jobs).

Allagan - Binding Coil

For arguments sake let's say you can only "Need" lot.

There are 6 sets of Allagan gear. Currently only 4 turns have been beaten and you can only run Coil once a week.

So 1 chance in 6 that you'll get a gear piece or weapon - in each turn (4) and there are 12 slots to fill with gear.

[(1/6)*4]/12 so .05 Weekly gear gain that is subject to RNG with roughly 72 pieces of gear to gather.


The main question is: Will content continue with upward progression in gear iLv? If in 6 months the Myth cost is the same and the tome cap is the same but content is now giving iLv95/100 gear this model is too slow for a multiclass system. They will either need to reduce the costs, increase the cap, or add individual Job tomes.

It's not hard - Limbus had requirements for how you upgraded gear and you could easily work on more than one thing at a time. The game may be new but they happen to have a treasure trove of experience to plumb for ideas on how players should be gathering gear, progressing, and what methods are effective to make the game less of a grind and more of an adventure.


Edit: I'd like to note that you can complete 4 Coil turns and 300 Myth cap in a single day. If you have capped all Jobs already that means you'll have played 256 Days out of those 256 Weeks. That's 1536 Days where a capped out player would be literally sitting on their hands with nothing to do in game. Of course content will be expanded... hopefully quickly and frequently and there are a lot of achievements/items to collect - but these have no relation to current progression.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

You say that, and then you go on to demonstrate the contrary.



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Sigh, why do I even bother talking to you.

It took people a year to gear ONE job in XI and suddenly everyone wants all jobs geared with little time commitment. Ironically, those same people don't want "casuals running around with relics". I don't get the rush mentality of this player base, or the contradictory nature of their QQ.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Sigh, why do I even bother talking to you.

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You're a well known white knight around here; it's in your nature to be irrationally contrary to someone who is being realistic :P

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Originally Posted by Starlord

How YOU define a NEW game and How I define a NEW game are indeed matter of opinions.

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Starlord, I think his point is - While some things are a matter of opinion, some things are hard facts, for example what I quoted isn't exactly an opinion, let's use this as an example:

I'm playing Secret of Mana, having fun so and on so forth then a few years later, Chrono Trigger comes out..that by definition is a new game - I played XIV 1.x then later ARR, which in my experience, while they rebuilt the game from scratch it was more "from scratch on a new engine while incorporating not so new features in the genre" still incorporates A LOT of what made FFXIV, FFXIV, so yeah, in a sense you can say it's opinion, but there is a difference between new games and just refurbished games - If ARR was taking place in Ivalice, it would be a new game compared to XIV's Eorzea/Hyd.

Reposting this here because Post Limits are just as annoying as Endgame Limits.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Makes perfect sense actually. For 1, even if there was no Myth Caps, do you know how many times you have to run AK in order to get a full set on 1 Job? A lot.

Also, Is Mythology/Philosophy the only content that has a cap preventing you from pressing forward? Yes

1) You can still get your Relic Weapon on all Jobs
2) You can still get Darklight on all Jobs
3) You can still get Primals weapons on all Jobs


While I do agree the cap should be risen ( a little like from 300 to 500), It is end-game gear and should take a considerable amount of time to obtain the whole set.

If Crystal Tower has no cap on anything, then that's yet another things you can obtain on all jobs.
If PvP has no cap, then that's another things you can obtain on all Jobs.

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Relic Weapon on all my jobs why? Darklight on all my jobs? Why? I already have primal weapons on all my jobs. However: when I can only do endgame content once a week and then be locked out. "Hey Hiir, want to do AK with us?" "Sorry I'm capped" "Anyone want to help fill a coil party? We just need one healer "Sorry I'm capped." I'm tired of being bored on every day but one. I can only do Bahamut's Coil once per character. Sure I can craft what 3 items for gil? And even those cost tomestones. I'm almost done fishing up all the fish in Eorzea because I have nothing else.

If you can't gear up more than one job every three months then the Armory systems stops being useful for anything you haven't DONE already.

Here's the rub about doing anything on the other jobs on 1 character: There's not enough end game content to do on one character. I like the game so I'm leveling up more characters so I can get access to the content I want to do, which is Coil. The Armory system dies 6 days out of the 7. I can't convey to you what a bummer this is.

You may not believe me, but I'm a huge "white knight" for the devs in every other way. But why they kill the Armory System at endgame content is just a poor decision. I should be able to have one character at endgame just like in 1.0.

As it is You can wait a year for your myth tokens to be on all the jobs you want to play, but until you level up more than one character you will be playing nothing. This may be a slightly separate issue from the topic but the fact remains, spending myth tokens on more than one job on one character is the biggest waste of time.

All endgame content will be capped in the near future. Level up your alts NOW people or else you'll find that in every patch incoming you will have no access to what you want to do. Can you imagine? "Can anyone help us with Bahamut's Coil 1-5?" "Sorry I cleared up to 7 last night." "Oh okay." "Can anyone help me with Coil 7?" "Sorry, we don't want to miss all the loot drops of 1-6".

It's a nightmare for organizing in an FC. "Hey guys when can I roll on Tank gear?" "Sorry you can't yet, X player is still needing X piece and we haven't been able to clear it enough times you'll have to wait or get mythology." "Okay well, can I just go pug Turns 1-4?" "Sorry, we might need you on this raid day if another tank doesn't show up and if you aren't available for that Turn then that may effect your prospects for the FC."

These are real ingame issues that people on SINGLE CHARACTERS are having. It's not just loot drops.

Your post displays a lack of understanding at what endgame FCs and FC members and individuals are grappling with every day because the Armory system is obselete at endgame.

Darklight is not a goal for most people who play at a certain level. Why should it be? It's only level 70. People should be able to have enough myth tokens to gear up more than one job otherwise they don't have more than one job. Not at endgame. Not at progression level endgame.

That's what the issue is.

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Originally Posted by Phogg

It took people a year to gear ONE job in XI and suddenly everyone wants all jobs geared with little time commitment. Ironically, those same people don't want "casuals running around with relics". I don't get the rush mentality of this player base, or the contradictory nature of their QQ.

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5 months to gear 1 class in Af2 is retarded. I know you XI players dig that yearly jog to end game, but for people who don't play at that level of grind/dedication, 5 months is the lifespan of some players interest in a game. If Myth Tome cap was per job, that would immediately ease this feeling of grind considering we only have a few very boring instances to grind said currency as is. I want to work towards stuff, but months of grinding isn't the way to do it. Throw it behind epic quest lines that challenge players and flesh out the game world, not limit them by 8 AK per week.

Just my 2c. The cap pretty much goes against the Armory System's purpose. You can play all classes...but how long will it take you to gear out all classes? Not geared enough for this as a healer? Aww, gotta play your DPS then, dawg.

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Originally Posted by Risae

You really must enjoy doing AK over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

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If you're coming from a game like FFXI, this would be like Dynamis and trying to get your relic weapon and gear when that raid was released. It's not meant to be obtained in a day. They made it so that if you really want it, it's going to take time. They are making sure that you don't obtain this gear in just a week or 2, it's meant to take a while to obtain.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

You're a well known white knight around here; it's in your nature to be irrationally contrary to someone who is being realistic :P

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If that's what you believe, have a blast with that. I told you and others that I "AGREE" that the cap needs to be adjusted, I also told people that I FEEL that FATEs need to have an overhaul. I am telling people what I don't like. That does not make me a white knight ( that terms is so loosely used now in days that I don't take anybody seriously at all).

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I'm playing Secret of Mana, having fun so and on so forth then a few years later, Chrono Trigger comes out..that by definition is a new game - I played XIV 1.x then later ARR, which in my experience, while they rebuilt the game from scratch it was more "from scratch on a new engine while incorporating not so new features in the genre" still incorporates A LOT of what made FFXIV, FFXIV, so yeah, in a sense you can say it's opinion, but there is a difference between new games and just refurbished games - If ARR was taking place in Ivalice, it would be a new game compared to XIV's Eorzea/Hyd.

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Games like FFXIII and FFXIII-2 they both use most of the resources YET they are separate games and considered new. So FFXIV 1.0 and FFXIV 2.0 in that same nature isn't separate and isn't new? /gives up

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Originally Posted by BalthierLove

Guys, get over it. It's done. They have already said they don't plan on changing this. You can't have everything you want from SE, personally I am glad they finally are starting to say no to people who demand changes.

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That's the thing, they won't even when something official tells them just that, they continue on about it -.-. ( I rather play what the Devs make, not what a thousand demanding people want) Everyone is different, 100 will like it 900 will hate it, and vise verse.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

This. Development by committee always ruins the end product.

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Exactly this Molly! Give suggestions not demands. Some people want to demand, speak with your wallet. That's always the most effective way for any company to change there ways.

Guys, get over it. It's done. They have already said they don't plan on changing this. You can't have everything you want from SE, personally I am glad they finally are starting to say no to people who demand changes.

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Originally Posted by BalthierLove

I am glad they finally are starting to say no to people who demand changes.

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This. Design by committee always ruins the end product.

lol so sick of people calling them "tombs" learn how to read. I don't know in what world an E looks like a B.

Also, we are level 50....this is current "endgame" level cap goes up and all this QQing is moot. I think in XI when cap was 50 the hardest fight was Shadow Lord. Either play the game and quit being little bishes or just straight quit.

People have a tendency to forget that this is a game you subscribe to play. Why would they make a game that you can "beat" in a short amount of time when their money comes in from subscriptions? Not only for the shear badassery that comes along with working your jelly off to achieve an item, but because the longer it takes to acquire something, the longer people are going to pay to play the game. 5 months in an MMO is not very long at all, considering people play MMOs for years.
If people are not willing to help out their FC because they are capped, then this is a problem with the community. You're telling me people would rather craft or farm instead of engaging in some endgame because it doesn't directly benefit them?
What happened to helping each other? "you're only as strong as your weakest link?" Wouldn't you want to help your FC members get better gear so that you may grow as a group? I think that's the real issue we face, not what the cap of tomestones should be....

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Originally Posted by Youngsun

If people are not willing to help out their FC because they are capped, then this is a problem with the community. You're telling me people would rather craft or farm instead of engaging in some endgame because it doesn't directly benefit them?
What happened to helping each other? "you're only as strong as your weakest link?" Wouldn't you want to help your FC members get better gear so that you may grow as a group? I think that's the real issue we face, not what the cap of tomestones should be....

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This is what happens when you make a game for people that mainly care about solo play though. See, I came from FFXI where the game was more community oriented and you "HAD" to rely on others to progress, no one man can do it by themselves. This game was based on the more modern MMOs where the only time people care about working together is on big Boss raids and generally speaking finding a group where they can get what they want and then probably bouncing.

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Originally Posted by Youngsun

What happened to helping each other?

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I'll tell you what happened.


You CAN'T help your FC. That's another problem. If you clear Coil into later stages in the raid then you can't go back to help anyone else on that character You're done for that week. That's why FC raiding is so problematic for Coil. No one's being selfish. In fact, people are doing the UNselfish thing and taking the time out to level alts just so that they CAN help others.

This is the problem. People have no idea that at endgame that is the END of the game as in you cannot progress any more on that character. You're at a near standstill. Even though you have "all this other stuff you can do", it's basically a subscription game of solitaire, a distraction for when you have too much time on your hands, but in the end, there's no progress at all.

If they just said, "The heck with it, no caps, No Lockouts, no Resets! Run Coil until you go into Cardiac Arrest!" the Armory system alone would provide more than enough endgame distractions as you ran Coil until you were geared on all jobs.

Instead you have 50 threads talking about how bored and frustrated people are. Great.

Yes! I, too, come from XI, and even still have friends I made there 8 years later. It saddens me that it has come to this.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

If they just said, "The heck with it, no caps, No Lockouts, no Resets! Run Coil until you go into Cardiac Arrest!" the Armory system alone would provide more than enough endgame distractions as you ran Coil until you were geared on all jobs.

Instead you have 50 threads talking about how bored and frustrated people are. Great.

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^ These 2 statements go hand-in-hand. Get rid of all restrictions, people run Coil 18x/day, get geared...
then it's back to 50 threads about being bored.

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

^ These 2 statements go hand-in-hand. Get rid of all restrictions, people run Coil 18x/day, get geared...
then it's back to 50 threads about being bored.

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You wouldn't be bored because Coil is fun. And helping people in your FC is fun. You could do like people do in Titan and try to run it in Swimsuits. Or try to 4 man Caduceus... or something epic like that.

But you can do none of these things 6/7 days of the week. Unless you level more than one character. Which makes the armory system obsolete. We should not, regardless of how new the game is, have this many bored people 6 weeks after release. 6 weeks of this new game and we're already leveling new characters? What is that?

It's bad. That's what it is. In 1.0 for all it's problems I had 1 character. That's it, just one. Now I'm planning on 5. Not even because I'm some content locust. It's so I have ACCESS to content.

I can't even do anything in game unless I do this. How can anyone think this makes any sense at all?

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You wouldn't be bored because Coil is fun. And helping people in your FC is fun.

But you can do none of these things 6/7 days of the week. Unless you level more than one character.

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AK was fun at first, too. So was helping FC members get gear in there. That is, until the 187th run came around.
Coil would be no different. You really think Coil would still be fun running it 6-7x/day? I'd give it 2 weeks maximum
until people blew up the forums demanding 10 more raids because Coil is boring.

I almost want Square to take off every restriction to see the chaos, but I know it won't happen.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You wouldn't be bored because Coil is fun. And helping people in your FC is fun. You could do like people do in Titan and try to run it in Swimsuits. Or try to 4 man Caduceus... or something epic like that.

But you can do none of these things 6/7 days of the week. Unless you level more than one character. Which makes the armory system obsolete. We should not, regardless of how new the game is, have this many bored people 6 weeks after release. 6 weeks of this new game and we're already leveling new characters? What is that?

It's bad. That's what it is. In 1.0 for all it's problems I had 1 character. That's it, just one. Now I'm planning on 5. Not even because I'm some content locust. It's so I have ACCESS to content.

I can't even do anything in game unless I do this. How can anyone think this makes any sense at all?

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:Q Hiir what's your alts name let's level together! xD!!

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

I almost want Square to take off every restriction to see the chaos, but I know it won't happen.

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What chaos are you talking about? People have this perception that players get bored just because they run the content over and over... no players get bored when there's nothing to do in game!

People realized early the disappointing truth that there was 0 point to running AK once you get geared with all Darklight because you can cap your mythtomes in Turns 1-4. See once you hit Coil that's when you reach the bitter end of 2.0 and start paint-drying excitement of waiting for 2.1 so that you can have something else to do... that's when you realize that you'll still be doing Coil because the Crystal Tower isn't even progression for you. That's when you realize that if you want to play WAR and SMN at level 90 it will be on two separate characters....

And that's when you realize that you're not in Kansas any more Toto.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

:Q Hiir what's your alts name let's level together! xD!!

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Monmeru Pendragon! :D All my characters will be based on my fanfiction. ^_^

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

All this stuff.

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Wrong, people DO get bored of running things over and over and over. I'm fairly certain there were endless posts of people hating doing AK over and over before they spread out the tomes a bit. Same with CM.

Your bit about people having nothing to do in game. Make Coil unlimited. People gear all their jobs in iLvl 90 gear in a month. Then what? Nothing to do in game. The cycle continues. Getting rid of caps/lockouts will not make everything rainbows.

The fact is, people are just never going to be happy no matter what happens. You can hand everyone everything in the game and have 50 raids, and it still won't be good enough.

And as cliche as it has become, honestly, if people are going to be pissed off 24/7 at a game, why continue? Quit, play something else, play some console games which there are a ton of excellent ones out right now. Square isn't going to add 90,000 hours of content next week, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Swishytail

Your bit about people having nothing to do in game. Make Coil unlimited. People gear all their jobs in iLvl 90 gear in a month.

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People will gear out their jobs in less than a month? Ohhh you mean kinda like how they have already... . People are already standing around in their Relic +1 ilevel90 stuff. As in, they're already leveling their next character to do the same thing in record time. As in the lock outs didn't solve this problem.

We'll cap our mains and secondaries in the few weeks before and the few weeks after 2.1. I like the game I really do, I don't like how I'm not allowed to play it without this leveling 1 character for each day of the week.

SE Devs you don't know what you're talking about. Just like you didn't know what you were talking about in 1.0.

I'm bowing out. White flag. I hope everyone can find some sort of happy medium. Enjoy.

I am happy with my one character and focusing on that with coil and mythology items. In my spare time I got all the relics "Armed to the Teeth" achievement and working on darklight gear for my other 8 jobs. I can join AK and WP with FC people because I don't mind helping people get darklight gear because I can use it for my alt jobs as well. Lvl 70 gear for alt jobs seems good enough for me, until 2.1 comes out then I can run CT for 80 gear.

Myth cap is fine imho. If too many myths were obtainable per week it would make completing coil a lesser accomplishment by getting equal gear from spamming AK/WP too easily.

zomg! welfare epics! It became epidemic in WoW and was a problem for a lot of people.

I'm getting so bored of spamming and beating Turn 5 in the coils now. I now have nothing to do. :(

Ohh wait...

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

lol

That's hilarious.
Your dev team is aware we can just make multiple characters to bypass this artificial barrier, right? All you're doing is making the armory system have NO PURPOSE.

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It does have Purpose for people who don't feel the need to have every class geared up at max as soon as possible.

That the armory system doesn't fit your kind of play style, doesn't mean it is for everyone useless :)

I do find it annoying you can't help friends. I do hope they can solve that in some way.

I am not really against what is asked in this thread, I just don't agree that the armory has no purpose, because I am enjoying it a lot.

And yes I know, probably most of my jobs will just have their af gear. I see no problem with that, for now most dungeons can be played in af gear.

I will gear up my main class, and after that what is most needed in the LS, and I will gear them in that order.

people that want to farm AK more have brain problems.
sorry you can't have everything in a week.

WE WANTS MORE EASY STUFF...

It's what i read there...
Go coil with one class, and use myth on other class, and you will stuff 2 class!
You Know, you can go coil full Darklight... no need ilvl90 items to loot ilvl 90 items...

Little tip : myth on bard/dragoon/monk, and coil for heal/DD caster/tank... and you will stuff 3 class!
(not that i did... scholar for my myth tomb and tank stuff for coil... :-° )

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

WE WANTS MORE EASY STUFF...

It's what i read there...

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Then you didn't read very well, since what's being asked for is a myth cap per job. Not a higher cap, not "easy stuff", no silver platter. Just more grind.
But the grind at least would make the armoury system better. Since if you properly want to play an alt job right now? Yeah, you need another character.

You didnt read what i said...

Myth = easy stuff. amdapor = not hard. grind = not hard (just take time)
More tomb (on different job or not) is more easy stuff

And you can stuff 3 class in same time
1 class with Myth tomb, and 2 class (tank/heal/DDcaster) with coil.
I have myth tomb on scholar, and i go on tank stuff in the coil.

Myth tomb = coil stuff... but easy way to have it.

Well, but with myth cap, when i get all the weekly myth and finished turn 4 of coil, i can quit game till monday, and well, i don't think that is a good thing for a mmo to be played just for 2/3 days a week veci use there's nothing to do, at least with the Job cap i have something more to do and i need to play all the Job (learning how to play them the best way) to get all the myth....
And at least i can have a little longer "end-game", and have a better knowledge of all the classes/Job......