What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

What?
*blinks*
Eeeeeh?
That's your arguement? Can't hold hate? In this day and age where 2 aoe skills makes you the lead on hate by a country mile?

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That is one of my arguments, not the main one.
If I can get a few solid hits on them, I will hold aggro no problem. But if there are a gazillion mobs around I might not have time to establish good lead on hate before some peel off - and may not notice if they do due to the crowd.

I also happen to think that big pulls are lousy tactics, and therefore is best avoided lest it become a bad habit.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

That is one of my arguments, not the main one.
If I can get a few solid hits on them, I will hold aggro no problem. But if there are a gazillion mobs around I might not have time to establish good lead on hate before some peel off - and may not notice if they do due to the crowd.

I also happen to think that big pulls are lousy tactics, and therefore is best avoided lest it become a bad habit.

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If you're just spamming AOEs it doesn't matter if you notice or not. If someone somehow gets aggro they'll bring it to you. Or at least they should, if they don't that's not on you.

Big pulls are good so all you're doing by avoiding them is keeping up an actual bad habit. I'm afraid to ask but what even is the reason to consider it "lousy"?

The problem is that healers and dps get on your nerves when you play tank. They all know everything better and start to critize you, especially if you do something else as they are used to.
"Tank the boss over here". "Pull Adds over there" "I have aggro, why do I have aggro?! Aggro everything at one." "Do this, do that." "Complain, bla, bla"

If you play tank these days you need to have a thick fur and as sad as it is, you need to be in the mindset: "I decicde know how this Dungeon / Raid is played, and the rest has to shut up and follow."
And actually that is your role. Lead the party. So if the healers and dps would accept this more and give tanks a bit more space to play in their own style, the role of a tank would be more enjoyable.

So in the end, if the rest adapts more to the pace, speed and playstyle of the tank(s), we would have more people playing tanks. Think a bout it.

PS: I play healer main.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

That is one of my arguments, not the main one.
If I can get a few solid hits on them, I will hold aggro no problem. But if there are a gazillion mobs around I might not have time to establish good lead on hate before some peel off - and may not notice if they do due to the crowd.

I also happen to think that big pulls are lousy tactics, and therefore is best avoided lest it become a bad habit.

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If sufficiently geared, less than the largest pull possible tends to be lousy tactics.

Moreover, a single tank AoE usually buffers the next several non-tank AoEs. It's a 10-to-1 ratio, and tank AoEs already have more than enough increased AoE potency to compensate for their lower Attack Power per ilvl.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

That's your arguement? Can't hold hate? In this day and age where 2 aoe skills makes you the lead on hate by a country mile?

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To be fair we can all disagree on whether others pulling for the tank is good or bad, but whatever the reasons, it's still a fact that some players don't tank pug dungeons because they simply dislike dps pulling for them.

The thread is titled "what do you think is the cause for lack of tank users?" and for some people, that's their reason. It's a question with an answer. They don't like not being allowed to set the pace unless they go at full speed with no pauses, so they don't tank. No point saying they're right or wrong, it's just how they feel. Emnity is easy to hold, but tagging mobs that are split far apart between chasing your healer in circles, zipping over to the BLM and mauling your melee all at once because someone sprinted ahead is a pain.

It's amusing that even other tanks are aggressive towards tanks who don't make the biggest pulls. We're chasing our own class away from our role.

It's certainly not the whole reason for lack of tanks, but it a part of it. It's a high responsibility low reward role.

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Originally Posted by MaxDetroit

The problem is that healers and dps get on your nerves when you play tank. They all know everything better and start to critize you, especially if you do something else as they are used to.
"Tank the boss over here". "Pull Adds over there" "I have aggro, why do I have aggro?! Aggro everything at one." "Do this, do that." "Complain, bla, bla"

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You're not exactly wrong there.

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Originally Posted by MaxDetroit

If you play tank these days you need to have a thick fur and as sad as it is, you need to be in the mindset: "I decicde know how this Dungeon / Raid is played, and the rest has to shut up and follow."
And actually that is your role. Lead the party. So if the healers and dps would accept this more and give tanks a bit more space to play in their own style, the role of a tank would be more enjoyable.

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As it should be if you though do try to be nicer about it unless you are new to tanking but one of the other people in the dungeon/raid gives you pointers on how to tank since the game kinda does a poor job at explaining the each of the roles different functions outside of dealing damage(Hall of the Novice needs a total rework)

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Originally Posted by MaxDetroit

So in the end, if the rest adapts more to the pace, speed and playstyle of the tank(s), we would have more people playing tanks. Think a bout it.

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Again, not exactly wrong here

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

To be fair we can all disagree on whether others pulling for the tank is good or bad, but whatever the reasons, it's still a fact that some players don't tank pug dungeons because they simply dislike dps pulling for them.

The thread is titled "what do you think is the cause for lack of tank users?" and for some people, that's their reason. It's a question with an answer. They don't like not being allowed to set the pace unless they go at full speed with no pauses, so they don't tank. No point saying they're right or wrong, it's just how they feel. Emnity is easy to hold, but tagging mobs that are split far apart between chasing your healer in circles, zipping over to the BLM and mauling your melee all at once because someone sprinted ahead is a pain.

It's amusing that even other tanks are aggressive towards tanks who don't make the biggest pulls. We're chasing our own class away from our role.

It's certainly not the whole reason for lack of tanks, but it a part of it. It's a high responsibility low reward role.

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I've had healers pull trash mobs ahead of me; as the tank, so it's not just DPS. As well as healers pulling aggro from their regens as I am trying to do big pulls and then the healers complained about having aggro and I told them the reason why they had aggro was because of their regens and the healer told me that I was a bad tank who didn't know what I was talking about...

So I've had my fair share of bad healers more than bad DPS...

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I've had several tanks get mad when I did this and l've made a post about it before on these forums, in which by far most seem convinced you should never do this as healer because it seems to violate some arbitrary etiquette.

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I don’t understand why some of them get angry. I personally love it when healers do this when I tank.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I don’t understand why some of them get angry. I personally love it when healers do this when I tank.

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Same, anything that brings chaos or gets you alert is much appreciated to me cause that's when the game gets most exciting imo, especially considering how stale dungeons are in this game. However I get why some people just want to be most comfortable and take path of least resistance but yeah I think a concious mentality change can get you to break out of that mindset and have more fun, especially when realizing there's usually very little at stake, except your ego perhaps.

Beside risk of prepuller dying (which will be calculated by the healer) there's really no reason for tank to be the first to pull when speaking mob groups. It makes no difference whatsoever when the non tank player would have no problem taking couple of hits and healer takes the responsibility (now that I think about it, it might even be efficient if another player takes the first hits cause it wouldn't need to be healed when tank takes over aggro, idk). I've read somewhere here that it's a leftover etiquette from Vanilla WoW where the first one that pulls takes more Aggro.

Just as a point of reference, if your healers and dps are able to survive mob damage on their own, then a tank is redundant for that content. That's presumably why older games had mobs that would one or two shot squishies. For that matter, I seem to remember Final Coil add spawns making a beeline to yummy healers to devour them in one bite. This comes back to the issue with having trivial mitigation checks and auto-positioning mobs that tank themselves.

Easy or not, if the role isn't needed, you probably won't want to do it.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Same, anything that brings chaos or gets you alert is much appreciated to me cause that's when the game gets most exciting imo, especially considering how stale dungeons are in this game. However I get why some people just want to be most comfortable and take path of least resistance but yeah I think a concious mentality change can get you to break out of that mindset and have more fun, especially when realizing there's usually very little at stake, except your ego perhaps.

Beside risk of prepuller dying (which will be calculated by the healer) there's really no reason for tank to be the first to pull when speaking mob groups. It makes no difference whatsoever when the non tank player would have no problem taking couple of hits and healer takes the responsibility (now that I think about it, it might even be efficient if another player takes the first hits cause it wouldn't need to be healed when tank takes over aggro, idk). I've read somewhere here that it's a leftover etiquette from Vanilla WoW where the first one that pulls takes more Aggro.

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This is total bs dude. Tanks pull first. Please stop this ridiculous argument and if you have your healer pulling for you than your a lazy tank or incompetent one. There are roles for a reason. Bad habits of overgeared dps and heals thinking tank doesn't matter until they do seriously this debate is nonsense.

Let me be very clear. Dps = damage this is your job Heals = keep everyone alive, remove status ailments when possible and rez when needed Tank = pulls mob holds agro and pos mob/boss for rest of group.

If you don't want to do your job unsync, trusts, GC Squad or get an fc/linkshell group to put up with this blatant disrespect/trolling. DO NOT PULL FOR TANK and if tanks are asking you to pull that's not real tank.